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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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I used to work at a high volume store and the rule of thumb was a 1/4 tank of gas. Well one time I delivered a used maxima and it was under a 1/4 tank plus i was new and didn't really think of those things. Well anyway the guy ran out of gas in traffic and was stuck for over hours before AAA came. Needless to say the dealership replied you got a good deal and that was that. But I remember the cust being extremely pissed and would never do business with us again. The dealership I work at now we always fill it up. But it is crazy. It seems nobody wants to pay doc fees but when it can cost $70 - $80 to fill up a car doc fees seem kind of small.....
And for selling the car over invoice today... We got $450 over invoice. For the record I showed invoice and explained where I was and there was no trade. :shades:
While I think it's poor business to only put in a 1/4 tank of gas and send the customer on their way, the responsibility for running out of gas is the sole fault of the customer for not knowing how much gas they had before going on their journey.
Like I used to say to my sons about all facets of life; in the end if something can affect you adversely, it's your responsibility to take care of yourself, I'm not always going to be at your side. The worse the consequences the more you have to think.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
In contrast to so many parents who seem to have said "Don't worry son, whatever happens I'll always be there to bail you out".
I know, and know of, several guys now in their thirties and forties who are still getting pulled from financial holes by their parents. One is very blasé about it, shows no embarrassment, and regards it as getting his inheritance early. Meanwhile his parent's quality of life suffers, though it's hard to feel truly sorry for them. I guess you reap what you sow.
OK, rant over!
People don't want to pay doc fees for the same reason they want lower price. But on top of it dealers use them as ways to obscure real cost from customer. Those fees created another open field for abuses, misinformation, false claims and simple overcharging, especially in states like mine, where they're not capped. Volume import dealers are common charging $599-$799 "doc-whatever" fee, $250-$350 is here considered "reasonable", meaning really "normal". Then they run ads showing net price and if they are a little bit honest, they list their fee in fine print - but many don't.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
"
You're probably younger than me. In the 'olden days', you got what was in it, new or used. I have been warned, on new cars, "You better go to the station, there isn't much gas in these new cars."
While you can't tell from the post but it is possible that the customer had just enough gas to pull out of the lot and drive a half block before running out of gas.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That is sad, my parents were always telling me "you got yourself into this you have to get yourself out of it". Not to say they didn't offer advice but they didn't offer to bail me out.
One of the last things my dad said to me before I went off to boot camp was "If you made a mistake don't expect me to come get you out".
I treat my kids the same way.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It depends...
I paid a $388 Doc Fee on my last purchase. In the Phoenix/Scottsdale area, it's not unusual to pay $300 to $400 Doc Fees, especially from the larger dealer networks.
I agree, but I also think the new owner should be given a mulligan for a few minutes when driving his new car off the sales lot. For instance, he might be spending the first couple minutes checking out the stereo, adjusting the climate control, performing a couple of lane changes, and getting the "feel" for his new car. In other words, the excitement of driving the new car off the lot might temporarily deaden his common senses.
If that driver had enough gas to cruise over 50 miles, then I agree with you completely. If he only had enough gas to go 20 miles, then I fault the dealer.
Regardless, I agree with your overall sentiments about taking responsibility. People need to take more responsibility for themselves, without blaming others. And the judicial courts need to stop entertaining bogus law suits, such as the driver who sued McDonalds because she spilled coffee on her lap. :mad:
"The worse the consequences the more you have to think." True, so true!
The only way I can understand this is if doc fees are less than $70 or $80.
Giving something cute names doesn't make it more palatable for me if it costs me more money.
BTW, doc fees where I live (PA) are limited by the state to $55.
I'm thinking with rising gas prices, Pennsylvanians may just drive their cars until they're out of gas, park them on the shoulder of the road, walk to the nearest dealer and gladly pay the $55 doc fee in hopes that the dealer gives them one free full tank. This could be a real boom for the car biz. :surprise: :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Anyway, their father, (great man) passed away last July of cancer. Her mother didn't drive and didn't want to pay the high car insurance rates in Philadelphia. The car was a 2003 Chevrolet Impala with only 16K miles on it. Now, my grandmother needed a car and is a big Chevy fan. Her current 1989 Caprice is getting on in years and my girlfriend's father's old ride would've been perfect. My grandmother offered $8,500 for it but then my girlfriend's brother and his wife were once again in desperate financial shape and needed a car. My girlfriend's mother felt sorry for them and GAVE them the Impala for FREE!!! The bum didn't even say thank you. He snatched the keys from her hands and went back to Tampa.
I didn't know you had done hard time snake. Any good "Stories From The Prison Frontlines"? :sick:
How come none of you guys bailed snake out? Shame on yous!
Note: West coast Oregon prices are higher than avg.
I just finished a 2,000 mile trip. On two tanks I drove 65-70.. got 6.1 and 7.0 per gallon (the 6.1 involved a lot of steep grades through northern Arizona).
The third tank I drove 55-60 and got 9.4 mpg's! (mostly flat in Oklahoma/Arkansas). The vehicle weighs 44,000 lbs and I was pulling my 3,400 lb. Honda.
Luckily, it seems that diesel fuel is a good bit cheaper than the other grades in the 7 states that I drove through. The highest that I paid for diesel was $3.09 and the cheapest $2.69.
To keep on topic... The MSRP sticker had 'Factory Delivery' listed for $1,500. Which included the use of a technition for two full days to go over the coach explaining every function, etc. Included in that fee was the cost of fuel.
I figured that since I paid 78% of list, that fee cost me $1,170. Believe me, that cost alone for the service tech was worth every penny. So, if fuel was $525, the cost of the tech was $645. ($645 / 16 hrs = $40 per hour).
Mark156
ps...I'm a charter member of "chronic car buyers"
Actually, I've got 3 cars with two drivers. My son has an '03 Hyundai Elantra. That car has served him well. I hope it continues that way.
I currently have two vehicles that I use. My daily driver is an '06 BMW 3 Series. Boating is a hobby. So, I've got a Tahoe that I use to haul around boat "stuff". I did use it to tow Sea-Doos. But, as my son has become older, he's lost interest in riding them. So, they're gone. It will also see duty as our "taligaiting vehicle" when the Bengals season hits. I can pack a lot of "stuff" in it (grills, tents, chairs, food).
Most here on these boards have heard of my car travails, but since 2004, I've had an '04 RX8 (totalled), an '05 Acura TL, an '05 Mustang GT and an '06 Cadillac STS (inherited). The BMW replaced the Acura (fine car....hated the FWD handling, though). The Mustang GT was an impulse buy. But at the time, I was able to drive it for a few months and still sell it for more than I paid for it. This was at a time when the new Mustangs were as hot as July 4th firecrackers.
The Cadillac belonged to my Mother, but because of illness and the fact she couldn't pass the "eye test" when her license came up for renewal, I inherited it.
It was the worst piece of automotive trash I had ever owned (tied with a Ford Tempo I owned in my youth). It ended up being "lemon lawed" with the qualifier that I take another GM vehicle of equal value, rather than a full refund of the purchase price. That's how I came to possess the Tahoe.
One of our Edmunds hosts, kyfdx, "forced" me to buy the BMW (330i)
The '07 Tahoe has also been a very good vehicle, for what I use it for. And, aside from $65 fillups, I've had no issues whatsoever with it. It's very comfortable and handles well for such a big vehicle. Still, the backup camera and sensors are must haves in a piece of iron this size. I took it on its first road trip last week....from Cincinnati to Chicago and back. It got 20 MPG for the trip. I was pleasantly surprised by that. Last winter, I went to Indinapolis in a blinding snow storm to visit my sister. It handled the foul weather extremely well.
My home central A/C went out this spring. A local HVAC guy found me a deal on a new compressor that he ordered. His customer decided she didn't like it's design. Her loss, my gain....I got it at cost. But, I had to go pick it up. It was still in the crate. I took out my back seats and I was actually able to fit the entire unit in the Tahoe (no room to spare, though). This thing had to weigh 300-400 pounds, but the Tahoe hauled it with no problems. Saved me about $500...plus another $75 delivery fee.
Just goes to show, GM knows how to make a good vehicle when they put their best efforts forward.
How'd you get the 22% off? Rebates... sale price...haggleing? What is the sales experience like comparing the purchase of an RV to that of the mundane 200hp automobile?
I saw your RV photo in the motor homes discussion, it's very nice.
I'm not aware of this but with gas prices what they are now/will be, they would have served their customers better if they had put a tow hitch on those SUV's so they could have just towed a gas station with them. With such frequent use, think of the gas and time saved not having to fetch one out.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mark,
How many of your favorite poster buddies can you fit into one of those?
When can we expect to go for a ride?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
if you were burning $166/mo in your fireplace, wouldn't your wife hit you upside the head?
Those dollars have to be paid by someone.
"COTMC" = Car of the Month Club. Back between 1994 and 2001, cars were my financial downfall! Here are all the vehicles I purchased for my wife and myself during that time period: '94 MX-3, '94 S-10, '95 G20, '95 Del Sol, '96 Maxima, '96 A4, '97 328i, '95 Wrangler (used), '98 323is, '99 Miata, '99 ES300, '99 A6, '99 328i (used), '01 MDX, '01 A4.
Should I be joining your "chronic car buyers" club?
At the turn of the century, we stopped being "DINKs", finally forcing myself to reform my ways -- although my friends/co-workers haven't let me live down my reputation!
uhhh... they are. that would be the folks BUYING the cars from you. ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Believe it or not I still have a winter beater tempo, 92 vintage, with the rare 6 cylinder (but not with the even rarer AWD transmission), anyway 350K miles on it, no transmission or engine work...I bought a new car in 96 to replace it, the dealer trade in was $500 so I kept it
This used to bother me because it happens all the time, but now I figure the dealership is only a phone call away. Their car their problem. One accompanied testdrive I took the sales guy's nerve broke before mine and he asked me to pull in to a gas station so that he could fill it up.
Those dollars have to be paid by someone.
Both you and Joel are missing the point. You guys sell mass market cars. I'm guessing that like any new car lot I've visited, British's used lot reflects the new inventory. It would be like buying a used million dollar+ mansion only to find that all the light bulbs had been removed (which actually happened to my wife and I when we bought our current house).
When you drop a high amount of coin, there are certain expectations that come with the experience.
No demand, just a pleasant request. Let's see if he comes through. There is plenty of time to get tough later.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I agree - and as much as these sales guys stress getting positive CSI scores, and hope for referrals, I would think they would do the little things, like filling up the tank before delivery.
And I don't know if cooler heads pervailed or if this was in the cards all along and I didn't hear it but there is a new development.
Quarter tank of gas and a debit gas card with XX amount of dollars on it for each delivery. I would guess probably 30 or so bucks on the gas card.
Certainly a step in the right direction but it would be so much better to make a full tank of gas appear to be a magnanimous gesture by the dealer (just like the bouquet of flowers or the bottle of wine or champagne if you do those). The cost of detailing, servicing, advertising, a share of keeping the lights on etc. is built into the dealer's cost so why not just add a tank of gas as well?
Sounds like a big disconnect between upper management and the actual customer.
New cars are always filled up.
If the deal can't cover the difference, I'll gladly wait while you siphon from my trade. Otherwise, just make sure I can get to a gas station.
I'm not sure I totally understand this. Is it because the guy is a grinder and doesn't want to give anything away on his end?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Then he realized he had recently filled his trade up with gas. He wanted to drive another car they owned to our store so he could transfer the gas into it.
And, get this...he wanted ME to do the siphoning!
" I bring car, I bring hose, you suck hose?"
" No, YOU suck hose!"
" No...no...YOU suck hose!!"
Thankfully, he didn't follow through.
Good story. Sounds like something I'd think of doing (but not actually do).
You left out the best part. To make the sale would you have done it?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If my trade (a truck), has a 22 gallon tank that is full, and the new car has a 12 gallon tank that is 1/4th full, you owe me some gas! If my trade is worth, say, $9,500 and you credit me $35 for gas, that's fine. If the trade is worth $9,500 with an empty tank, then the tune changes.
At 1/4 tank, my truck would usually take 15 `17 gallons to fill. 15 x 3.15 = $47.25.
I'm not saying that this would kill a deal for me, but maybe it is something that should be looked at on a case - by - case basis.
I am horrible at putting my thoughts into print, but I hope it makes sense.
I joked with my wife the other day about one of our vehicles needing a major service and tires...should just trade it in. She didn't see the humor in that either, but it was there...kinda!
I used to siphon gas from my cars for my lawnmower and I can remember what happens!