I think orange is one of those trendy colors atm. Nissan has orange 350Z's this year and Volkwagen has their limited edition "Farenheit" GTI in bright orange only. I think it's a love it (me) or hate it (my wife) colour.
I went car shopping today. My wife and I have been wanting to replace my car with something both of us like, but it got pushed to the backburner because of a lot of personal stuff going on. We're looking for somehting fun but practical with a manual tranny and a sunroof.
We went to the Nissan dealer first and tested the Altima and Sentra SE-R Spec V. Both of us felt like we were a little young for the Altima, but really liked the Sentra. Salesman and Sales Manager were both really friendly and sharp. Made us want to buy from them.
We went to the Mazda dealer next to try out the Speed3 and Mazda3. The saleswoman acted like we were wasting her time. The Speed3 had a $2k ADM tacked on, which I was OK with (I know they're a "in" car right now). I liked it, my wife thought it was too much for her and didn't like the seats. Tried the regular 3 and both of us felt it was lacking in the fun department.
I told my wife she should try out the RX-8 since it might be more to her liking. That really irked the saleswoman, we were really wasting her time then. Wife liked the RX-8 a lot. We said we had another car to try out (WRX) before we made our decison and she brought over her sales manager. He gave both of us the creeps and gave us that "we're being looked down on" feeling. We likely would have decided on the RX-8 had the dealer experience been different, but neither of us relished dealing with the salespeople.
I'm an accountant and my wife owns her own business. We we are approved for a car loan big enough to buy any car on any lot we went to. I'll never understand why some dealerships can be so friendly and helpful, while others can make you feel like Poindexter at a frat party.
Looks like it'll either be a Civic Si or Sentra SE-R for us.
Try out an Accord coupe (2 door sedan) with a six speed stick shift. You'll appreciate the extra room. It is more practical but still fun. Don't let a surly or rude dealer eliminate a brand of car for you. Go to another dealership selling the same make. If you can find a MazdaSpeed 6, test drive it. Fast and roomy. Luxurious too if you get the GT. Big discounts may be available on that one, unlike the MazdaSpeed 3.
Thanks for the suggestion. We looked at the Accord coupe, but it got dropped from the running because it's too expensive when you get the V-6 and a Manual. Even a stripper V-4 would run more than the Si loaded with Sat Navigation, sunroof, body kit, etc. Also, we aren't really looking at coupes since we want an easy access back seat. The only reason the RX-8 was considered was the half doors that make entry to the back fairly easy.
This car is supposed to be the family "practical" car. In a year, once this one is paid off, wifey agreed to getting a less practical second car (350Z roadster), in exchange for trading in my Mustang Cobra.
Oops! I assumed a Honda Civic Si was a 2-door with a hatchback; they used to be. If you want a practical economical sedan with 4 doors, look at a Hyundai Elantra Limited, that's the fanciest version. It has loads of equipment including leather seats and you can get one for under $17,000 with a 10 year warranty and a portable navigation unit you can use in your other cars too (and keep it if you trade cars). It is also roomier and more practical than all the cars mentioned, though probably not so sporty as the Civic Si or Mazdas. The RX back seats are tiny, don't be fooled. The Speed6 is pretty roomy. That RX 8 and WRX and MazdaSpeed 3 are all pretty expensive and get rotten gas mileage. If gas keeps going up, you'll be happier filling the Elantra.
I think orange is one of those trendy colors atm. Nissan has orange 350Z's this year and Volkwagen has their limited edition "Farenheit" GTI in bright orange only. I think it's a love it (me) or hate it (my wife) colour.
Yeah I agree that orange is a trendy color at the moment. Land Rover has a tradition of doing special edition orange colors anyway though.
Tambora Flame on the LR2 Vesuvius Orange on SC Sports Tangiers Orange On G4 Edition Rovers Kinversand(sp?) on Series II discos
I've always liked orange cars for some reason. Not the more copper/metalic orange, more the true orange. The new orange they're using on the Z's is really sweet up close.
Were it not for the crappy reputation for reliablity and the even worse reputation of the service department at our closest VW dealer, I'd be all over that Farenheit GTI. I've seen a couple locally and they look amazing.
It's funny how some colors become in for a while, only to fall from favor and make a car look really dated later on. Witness the 90's teal fad. Silver seems to be the "in" color right now.
Serious buyers on those cars understand and appreciate it.
I drive a SVT Cobra now. I ended up buying one used because the salesperson wouldn't let me test drive it. The guy had a bad attitude to boot. I had a third to put down on it and financing lined up through my bank already, so I was a serious buyer.
Found one at Carmax that was a year older with 4,000 miles and bought there since they'd let me test drive it. Saved $5,000 over new.
What irritates me are the ADM's on cars. I understand supply and demand, but it seems very close to gouging. My local Ford dealer has a Mustang Shelby GT (gussied up GT, not cobra) with a $15,000 ADM.
I'm amazed that the manufacturers allow ADM's. Makes them look bad.
I just wonder if the money that the dealers get in ADM doesn't hurt them in the long run when someone comes in to buy a $25,000 car and is told "great, that will be $30,000". Why? Because we can.
As far as taking it, or leaving it, that's what everyone does. Normally I'll leave it, especially since that ADM usually bumps the price into a price category where it is outclassed.
For example: Mazdaspeed3+$3k ADM = could get a 350Z instead or: Shelby GT+15k ADM= could get a vette and take a cruise. or: Altima Coupe+ $5k ADM=could get g35 coupe instead.
Some people need room for 4 adults in their cars. They won't be bumped into a 2 seater even if it accelerates and handles better than the ADM-ized larger cars.
This burnt orange color Vette was the Pace Car for the 500 this year. Last Friday I saw a chain of 10 in a row with special Indiana license plates driving to the Corvette museum in Bowling Green. They passed us on I65 about 15 miles before we got there. It was great to see the line of sports cars moving together.
I once had a customer who wanted his S/C Sport to be Vesuvious - long after that color was long gone. Once he found out it was $12k to do the job right he lost interest.
Now that is a car that can carry an outrageous color and look good (of course you could probably paint it with mud and it would still look good). I'm not sure it comes off when put on a land rover. Kind of like seeing the Pope wear hot pants.
Just a comment on the ADM issue. Of course the dealer has the right to charge anything they want. However, the feeling of unfairness generated in the minds of many regular Joes could lead to them shopping elsewhere for their next car. That is, you can make a killing on the Mustang but turn off the dozens of Fusion buyers. I can't help but wonder if in the long run those many normal profit sales would exceed the one ADM blockbuster.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
What irritates me are the ADM's on cars. I understand supply and demand, but it seems very close to gouging. My local Ford dealer has a Mustang Shelby GT (gussied up GT, not cobra) with a $15,000 ADM.
I love them. We delivered one last week @ $10K over and have all of our 08's presold at that price. I love it when it is our turn.
We let the specialty cars be driven just before the customer goes to the business office if they want. 8 out of 10 never do because they already know what they are buying.
Let's see - one Mustang with a BIG ADM or dozens of Fusion profits - seems like a wash to me. Besides, Fusion buyers are seldom big ticket buyers - don't think it would effect anything.
We delivered one last week $10K over and have all of our 08's presold at that price. I love it when it is our turn.
If you can get $10K over more power to you. I've never considered ADMs to be "gouging", since owning a unique specialty car isn't exactly a necessity of life. OTOH, I'd almost certainly pick up a Shelby GT for MSRP, but not $10K over. At that price point newer M3s and 911s enter the picture and the Shelby becomes a non-starter. For me anyway.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
You are correct lrguy, it effects nothing, as a matter of fact those big ticket buyers are usually very loyal customers and are thankful that they are one of the few that hade the opportunity to even buy the car, and several of them that were not prior customers have purchased other cars from us since then.
However, the feeling of unfairness generated in the minds of many regular Joes could lead to them shopping elsewhere for their next car.
I really don't think many regular Joes who wouldn't buy a $45K car to begin with are not going to care if there is an ADM on that car. The fact that the cars that they would buy don't carry an ADM would lead me to believe that they might not even remember that the car they couldn't afford at MSRP had a $10K ADM.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
remember, MSRP only stands for "suggested"...:):):)
but I do wonder, if one pays $40K for a $30K car due to $10K in ADM (probably more like $45K after TTL and Extended warranty), if they only put $1,000 down and they total it, will GAP insurance pay the full differential, since the car only has a "book value" of under $30K since it has now depreciated probably $5-7K just by driving it off the lot...
I really don't think many regular Joes who wouldn't buy a $45K car to begin with are not going to care if there is an ADM on that car. The fact that the cars that they would buy don't carry an ADM would lead me to believe that they might not even remember that the car they couldn't afford at MSRP had a $10K ADM.
Hmm if they have money for it they won't care about a 25% surcharge...oh wait, yeah they will thats what we learned with the "Luxury Tax" that killed the US boating industry.
He would have done your dirty work and you would have been out of it completely.
Seems to me Joel would want to keep his mouth shut and ask the customer to not say a word. I'm guessing he wouldn't want the competition to learn from his mistake.
As others have said,it has zero effect. A Fusion buyer could care less what a Mustang GT costs. As long as he gets the deal he wants on the Fusion.
Since MSRP isn't an absolute,why shouldn't a dealer charge more if he can? After all, the customers don't complain when they get $10,000 off sticker on a hard to sell car. Why shouldn't the dealer be compensated for a hot car? I can see where certian people would be turned off by this approach,but the fact remains that plenty of people do buy cars w/ aDM's charged. If they really want the car that is.
Since MSRP isn't an absolute,why shouldn't a dealer charge more if he can? After all, the customers don't complain when they get $10,000 off sticker on a hard to sell car. Why shouldn't the dealer be compensated for a hot car? I can see where certian people would be turned off by this approach,but the fact remains that plenty of people do buy cars w/ aDM's charged. If they really want the car that is.
I totally agree, thats how the market works. The car sells for the price people are willing to pay. If they have the buyers they are looking for with some ADM, then that is the de-facto market price.
If a bunch of cars with pinstripes, mudflaps, and cheesy hub caps are siting there with an ADM sticker a year later, eh, they missed. If they can get what they are asking, more power to them.
If a bunch of cars with pinstripes, mudflaps, and cheesy hub caps are siting there with an ADM sticker a year later, eh, they missed. If they can get what they are asking, more power to them.
I agree with trying but when the buyer says no, the buyer walks or the dealer decides to make the sale without charging full price for the ADM. When I bought in 2005 the dealer decided it wasn’t worth losing the sale for $122 pinstripes.
Everything went pretty smoothly with the deal until I saw that they were charging $122 for pinstripes that I could buy at the auto parts for $6.95. The salesman, although a good guy to this point, said he had to charge me for the pinstripes and it was out of his hands. He then became a jerk and said, “take it or leave it”. I was about to say I’ll pay $50 for them but he didn’t give me a chance. This pushed my stubborn button so I said I’ll leave it and got up to leave. The sales manager was nearby and heard what was going on and quickly came over and said, how much are you willing to pay for them and I said, “nothing, I don’t want them and since these are a problem take them off and I’ll buy the car for the price I was given otherwise I’m leaving” !! The sales manager then said, if I take them off we’ll have to buff out the paint and I don’t want to do that so I’ll give them to you, ok? Of course I said yes and bought the car.
When I bought in 2006, at a different dealer, there was no ADM for that car, so there was no problem with a quick sale. About a week later I was in the neighborhood of this dealer so I stopped in to say hello. As I was leaving I saw a van that said “Detail Doctor” (or something like this) parked in the parking lot and he was putting pinstripes on a new car. I struck up a conversation with the guy and asked, “do you do this for very many cars”? He quickly said, “oh yeah, this and fabric treatment are very popular and he goes on to say, “I wish they paid me half for the pinstripes that they charge their customer but it only takes me about 20 minutes to do a car so I guess I can’t complain”.
So, like me and several others have said about ADM; if you don’t ask you don’t get. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"...Let's see-one Mustang with a BIG ADM or dozens of Fusion profits..."
I guess I made the mistake of looking at this from my own perspective. I would never try to bleed the last nickel out of a deal, so twenty of my deals would be worth more than a 10K ADM.
I can tell by the tone of some of the responses to my post that you guys must be tired of the grinders with attitude. I see them every day in my own business. Is the payoff for a regular sale so low that dozens of them don't equal 10K? Boy, if it is I finally found a job tougher than farming.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
but I do wonder, if one pays $40K for a $30K car due to $10K in ADM (probably more like $45K after TTL and Extended warranty), if they only put $1,000 down and they total it, will GAP insurance pay the full differential,
Marsha, we are yet to finance the full amount on one. In fact I have only finaced one of them and he put $30K down. But in answer to your question it is no different then when some one is $10K out of equity, as long as the "GAP" does not exceed 150% of MSRP/NADA or the total $$ amount financed does not exceed $125,000 then you can write the policy.
"The new orange they're using on the Z's is really sweet up close."
If you're interested in the Z, come on over to the Z forums and chat a bit. There's a "Meet the Members" and "Prices Paid" and a few others Z-related. I have a Redline Touring Roadster (2005) and love it. Surprisingly, it's more practical than you might think at first glance - there's a fair amount of storage space for what it is, and gas mileage is not too bad - around 18- 20 around town, 25 to just under 26 on the highway, steady speed.
Re dealer experiences, I will walk out if I see ADMs on the window sticker. Just not interested in doing business with those dealers, period, having learned my lesson years ago with buying my Stanza from such a place. I was young and foolish then; older and wiser now. I've owned several Nissan products since then, but have never returned to the place I bought the Stanza from. Guess they made an extra few hundred on me then, have lost quite a bit by never getting me back as a return customer.
If a bunch of cars with pinstripes, mudflaps, and cheesy hub caps are siting there with an ADM sticker a year later, eh, they missed. If they can get what they are asking, more power to them.
I always thought ADM was simply added profit for a particular car, not the inflated prices of dealer installed options, like pinstripes. With the options, at least you are getting something for the money. I thought ADM was simply markup without adding anything to the car. Of course, I may be wrong.
I sell Audi, and we sell all our RS4's without test-drives. Of course it's not what you say, it's how you say it - we explain why, we are corteous and professional, and usually people understand. One customer actually test-drove it at another dealership, but bought from us - because he knew we don't allow test-drives, and he gets a pristine condition car. I let a customer to test-drive an S8 - only after we agreed on numbers, trade-in value and got a credit app.
It can be either. Strictly speaking, ADM is simply additional markup of the sticker,however alot of dealers do use the pretext of adding mop and glo,VIN etching,pinstripes etc, to justify the increase in price.
If a dealer adds equipment to the car,they have to put in on a sticker attached to the car. Some dealers just use that sticker to put the ADM charge on. Others use it for the pinstripes,chrome wheels etc.
"...Guess they made an extra few hundred then, have lost quite a bit by never getting me back as a return customer..."
My point exactly. Way back in 1980 I bought a Dodge under favorable terms. Back then they only gave 12K warranties. At 13K I noticed the paint peeling off the front under the bumper. Asked for a repaint, the dealer refused. Went to the Attorney General and forced them to do it. As I was dropping the car off the tech turns to me and says: " I don't know why they refused you, we've been repainting these for everybody else."
I've never been back to that dealer since. I've bought 7 cars since then.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
A friend of mine sells Chevy, Mazda, Hyundai, and Cadillac. I always bought at invoice, and always bought what he was selling.
A few years ago I started seeing ADM stickers on about half of the mundane cars. They were actually "CMV" stickers. (Current Market Value) :surprise:
A salesman told me "Oh, you don't have to worry about that". I don't know if I was supposed to think to myself - "Wow,I'm special", but all I could think of was "weaslebastards".
A salesman told me "Oh, you don't have to worry about that". I don't know if I was supposed to think to myself - "Wow,I'm special", but all I could think of was "weaslebastards".
Not to long ago when Suzuki came out with their SX4 I got into a discussion about it so I stopped by a dealer to check it out. Would you believe they had a $5K ADM on the car? The salesman who came up to me said the exact same thing. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Moo, that's funny. I'm moving to Atlanta and have been emailing Honda dealerships for a Fit. I've been grinding myself into a tortuous headache, so your post made me smile. That's all!
As I was dropping the car off the tech turns to me and says: " I don't know why they refused you, we've been repainting these for everybody else."
I had a 95’ Bonneville that started to shed paint in blotches in 2000, it had just under 48K miles. I called Pontiac to see what they would do. They told me to take it to the local Pontiac dealership and to have them take a look at it and get back to him at Pontiac. I took it to the local Pontiac dealer and told them the story and the guy at the body shop said GM had a primer and paint compatibility problem in that era but he never saw them make an adjustment at his place on cars that were older than 3 years but since my car was almost perfect otherwise (his words, and he went on to say their used car manager would kill to have this car on his lot IF it had paint).
The body shop guy said that if Pontiac was going to make an exception, it should be my car. I go home and about an hour later I get a call from the guy at Pontiac saying he was going to have the Pontiac District Rep. look at the car and make the call as what Pontiac would do. I take my car back to the dealer and leave it there to await the decision. About a half hour later I get a call from the guy at Pontiac saying the District Rep. was not going to authorize repainting my car. I said that was a pretty quick decision, he must have been around the corner to have done it that fast. He tells me the Rep. didn’t even see the car, he just said NO from his cell phone when the body shop called him.
He said what did I really want them to do since the car was five years old? I said I’ve been a loyal GM customer since I had my first car (NEVER even once owned anything else) and they were all a lot more than five years old and they all had paint when I got rid of them and furthermore, I never knew paint was considered a consumable item on a car. I asked the guy at Pontiac to e-mail their decision so I could have it for my records. Believe it or not he sent me an e-mail that accurately stated Pontiac’s position. I really didn’t expect to get one at all let alone one that was that detailed.
I've never been back to that dealer since. I've bought 7 cars since then.
When I bought my last two cars (05’ and 06’) and when my two sons bought their last two cars each (4 cars) after this event with Pontiac we each e-mailed a copy of the Pontiac e-mail I received, along with scanned copies of the bill of sales for all 6 cars to Pontiac and GM stating why we don’t plan to buy anything else from GM. FWIW, several friends and acquaintances have also sent my e-mail and copies of their bill of sales to the same e-mail addresses. By my last count, I think 12 e-mails have been sent to Pontiac and GM. Will they get the point? I’m sure they won’t but as a dissatisfied customer, this was the best I could come up with.
On top of this, my 95’ Monte Carlo with 67K miles in 2005 started to drink water and would cost at least $1200 to replace the head gaskets. I gave that car to Goodwill and received a statement that I could claim $700 as a gift on my 05’ 1040 tax return.
I’m sure posters have heard me speak poorly of GM; “Now you know the rest of the story”.
Sorry for the length of this post but I wanted to fully explain the situation.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I suppose if it were a court of law that legally they were under no obligation (although the Attorney General's office thought different).
I should have mentioned that even though I had gone over milage on warranty the car was only 9 months old. It turned out later that this was a design defect on that model and Dodge was doing repaints for the asking to avoid a recall.
A dealer is never under obligation to do anything beyond what is the bare minimum the law requires. ADM are not illegal, telling customers to drop dead on repairs isn't either. My point was that when you operate like that, people will shop elsewhere. It's short sighted in my opinion.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Believe it or not he sent me an e-mail that accurately stated Pontiac’s position. I really didn’t expect to get one at all let alone one that was that detailed
it strikes me that with the paint incompatibility problem, that email was probably prepared a long time before you had the shop go to bat for you.
Comments
I went car shopping today. My wife and I have been wanting to replace my car with something both of us like, but it got pushed to the backburner because of a lot of personal stuff going on. We're looking for somehting fun but practical with a manual tranny and a sunroof.
We went to the Nissan dealer first and tested the Altima and Sentra SE-R Spec V. Both of us felt like we were a little young for the Altima, but really liked the Sentra. Salesman and Sales Manager were both really friendly and sharp. Made us want to buy from them.
We went to the Mazda dealer next to try out the Speed3 and Mazda3. The saleswoman acted like we were wasting her time. The Speed3 had a $2k ADM tacked on, which I was OK with (I know they're a "in" car right now). I liked it, my wife thought it was too much for her and didn't like the seats. Tried the regular 3 and both of us felt it was lacking in the fun department.
I told my wife she should try out the RX-8 since it might be more to her liking. That really irked the saleswoman, we were really wasting her time then. Wife liked the RX-8 a lot. We said we had another car to try out (WRX) before we made our decison and she brought over her sales manager. He gave both of us the creeps and gave us that "we're being looked down on" feeling. We likely would have decided on the RX-8 had the dealer experience been different, but neither of us relished dealing with the salespeople.
I'm an accountant and my wife owns her own business. We we are approved for a car loan big enough to buy any car on any lot we went to. I'll never understand why some dealerships can be so friendly and helpful, while others can make you feel like Poindexter at a frat party.
Looks like it'll either be a Civic Si or Sentra SE-R for us.
Don't let a surly or rude dealer eliminate a brand of car for you. Go to another dealership selling the same make. If you can find a MazdaSpeed 6, test drive it. Fast and roomy. Luxurious too if you get the GT. Big discounts may be available on that one, unlike the MazdaSpeed 3.
This car is supposed to be the family "practical" car. In a year, once this one is paid off, wifey agreed to getting a less practical second car (350Z roadster), in exchange for trading in my Mustang Cobra.
I assumed a Honda Civic Si was a 2-door with a hatchback; they used to be.
If you want a practical economical sedan with 4 doors, look at a Hyundai Elantra Limited, that's the fanciest version. It has loads of equipment including leather seats and you can get one for under $17,000 with a 10 year warranty and a portable navigation unit you can use in your other cars too (and keep it if you trade cars). It is also roomier and more practical than all the cars mentioned, though probably not so sporty as the Civic Si or Mazdas. The RX back seats are tiny, don't be fooled. The Speed6 is pretty roomy.
That RX 8 and WRX and MazdaSpeed 3 are all pretty expensive and get rotten gas mileage. If gas keeps going up, you'll be happier filling the Elantra.
Yeah I agree that orange is a trendy color at the moment. Land Rover has a tradition of doing special edition orange colors anyway though.
Tambora Flame on the LR2
Vesuvius Orange on SC Sports
Tangiers Orange On G4 Edition Rovers
Kinversand(sp?) on Series II discos
Were it not for the crappy reputation for reliablity and the even worse reputation of the service department at our closest VW dealer, I'd be all over that Farenheit GTI. I've seen a couple locally and they look amazing.
It's funny how some colors become in for a while, only to fall from favor and make a car look really dated later on. Witness the 90's teal fad. Silver seems to be the "in" color right now.
I drive a SVT Cobra now. I ended up buying one used because the salesperson wouldn't let me test drive it. The guy had a bad attitude to boot. I had a third to put down on it and financing lined up through my bank already, so I was a serious buyer.
Found one at Carmax that was a year older with 4,000 miles and bought there since they'd let me test drive it. Saved $5,000 over new.
What irritates me are the ADM's on cars. I understand supply and demand, but it seems very close to gouging. My local Ford dealer has a Mustang Shelby GT (gussied up GT, not cobra) with a $15,000 ADM.
I'm amazed that the manufacturers allow ADM's. Makes them look bad.
There is one nearby that has one with a $10K ADM. So I guess thats a steal
I'm amazed that the manufacturers allow ADM's.
I am not sure if manufacturers can really do anything about it. Plus if people are willing to pay it the dealership has every right to charge it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As far as taking it, or leaving it, that's what everyone does. Normally I'll leave it, especially since that ADM usually bumps the price into a price category where it is outclassed.
For example: Mazdaspeed3+$3k ADM = could get a 350Z instead
or: Shelby GT+15k ADM= could get a vette and take a cruise.
or: Altima Coupe+ $5k ADM=could get g35 coupe instead.
It's only gouging if you don't want it but buy it anyway. Like you have said in a later post you don't fall for this, so it isn't a problem for you.
Isn't it great when you're the boss and spend your money the way you want to without being bullied by sales tactics?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Which just goes to show that just because someone has money it doesn't mean they have taste.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now that is a car that can carry an outrageous color and look good (of course you could probably paint it with mud and it would still look good). I'm not sure it comes off when put on a land rover. Kind of like seeing the Pope wear hot pants.
Just a comment on the ADM issue. Of course the dealer has the right to charge anything they want. However, the feeling of unfairness generated in the minds of many regular Joes could lead to them shopping elsewhere for their next car. That is, you can make a killing on the Mustang but turn off the dozens of Fusion buyers. I can't help but wonder if in the long run those many normal profit sales would exceed the one ADM blockbuster.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I love them.
We delivered one last week @ $10K over and have all of our 08's presold at that price. I love it when it is our turn.
We let the specialty cars be driven just before the customer goes to the business office if they want. 8 out of 10 never do because they already know what they are buying.
If you can get $10K over more power to you. I've never considered ADMs to be "gouging", since owning a unique specialty car isn't exactly a necessity of life. OTOH, I'd almost certainly pick up a Shelby GT for MSRP, but not $10K over. At that price point newer M3s and 911s enter the picture and the Shelby becomes a non-starter. For me anyway.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Another GM cookie cutter crossover.
Looked pretty nice inside!
I really don't think many regular Joes who wouldn't buy a $45K car to begin with are not going to care if there is an ADM on that car. The fact that the cars that they would buy don't carry an ADM would lead me to believe that they might not even remember that the car they couldn't afford at MSRP had a $10K ADM.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
but I do wonder, if one pays $40K for a $30K car due to $10K in ADM (probably more like $45K after TTL and Extended warranty), if they only put $1,000 down and they total it, will GAP insurance pay the full differential, since the car only has a "book value" of under $30K since it has now depreciated probably $5-7K just by driving it off the lot...
Just wondering...but you salesfolks will know...
Hmm if they have money for it they won't care about a 25% surcharge...oh wait, yeah they will thats what we learned with the "Luxury Tax" that killed the US boating industry.
Seems to me Joel would want to keep his mouth shut and ask the customer to not say a word. I'm guessing he wouldn't want the competition to learn from his mistake.
A Fusion buyer could care less what a Mustang GT costs.
As long as he gets the deal he wants on the Fusion.
Since MSRP isn't an absolute,why shouldn't a dealer charge more if he can?
After all, the customers don't complain when they get $10,000 off sticker on a hard to sell car.
Why shouldn't the dealer be compensated for a hot car?
I can see where certian people would be turned off by this approach,but the fact remains that plenty of people do buy cars w/ aDM's charged.
If they really want the car that is.
After all, the customers don't complain when they get $10,000 off sticker on a hard to sell car.
Why shouldn't the dealer be compensated for a hot car?
I can see where certian people would be turned off by this approach,but the fact remains that plenty of people do buy cars w/ aDM's charged.
If they really want the car that is.
I totally agree, thats how the market works. The car sells for the price people are willing to pay. If they have the buyers they are looking for with some ADM, then that is the de-facto market price.
If a bunch of cars with pinstripes, mudflaps, and cheesy hub caps are siting there with an ADM sticker a year later, eh, they missed. If they can get what they are asking, more power to them.
You won't see too many people in dire need of cheap transportation buying a Mazdaspeed3, or Mustang GT500, or a Charger SRT.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I agree with trying but when the buyer says no, the buyer walks or the dealer decides to make the sale without charging full price for the ADM. When I bought in 2005 the dealer decided it wasn’t worth losing the sale for $122 pinstripes.
Everything went pretty smoothly with the deal until I saw that they were charging $122 for pinstripes that I could buy at the auto parts for $6.95. The salesman, although a good guy to this point, said he had to charge me for the pinstripes and it was out of his hands. He then became a jerk and said, “take it or leave it”. I was about to say I’ll pay $50 for them but he didn’t give me a chance. This pushed my stubborn button so I said I’ll leave it and got up to leave. The sales manager was nearby and heard what was going on and quickly came over and said, how much are you willing to pay for them and I said, “nothing, I don’t want them and since these are a problem take them off and I’ll buy the car for the price I was given otherwise I’m leaving” !! The sales manager then said, if I take them off we’ll have to buff out the paint and I don’t want to do that so I’ll give them to you, ok? Of course I said yes and bought the car.
When I bought in 2006, at a different dealer, there was no ADM for that car, so there was no problem with a quick sale. About a week later I was in the neighborhood of this dealer so I stopped in to say hello. As I was leaving I saw a van that said “Detail Doctor” (or something like this) parked in the parking lot and he was putting pinstripes on a new car. I struck up a conversation with the guy and asked, “do you do this for very many cars”? He quickly said, “oh yeah, this and fabric treatment are very popular and he goes on to say, “I wish they paid me half for the pinstripes that they charge their customer but it only takes me about 20 minutes to do a car so I guess I can’t complain”.
So, like me and several others have said about ADM; if you don’t ask you don’t get. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I guess I made the mistake of looking at this from my own perspective. I would never try to bleed the last nickel out of a deal, so twenty of my deals would be worth more than a 10K ADM.
I can tell by the tone of some of the responses to my post that you guys must be tired of the grinders with attitude. I see them every day in my own business. Is the payoff for a regular sale so low that dozens of them don't equal 10K? Boy, if it is I finally found a job tougher than farming.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
wouldn't the same be true for those that purchase a vehicle with hefty incentives / discounts, or poor resale?
they are making foolish purchasing decisions right out of the gate.
Not if its a car they like, want and fits their needs.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Marsha, we are yet to finance the full amount on one. In fact I have only finaced one of them and he put $30K down. But in answer to your question it is no different then when some one is $10K out of equity, as long as the "GAP" does not exceed 150% of MSRP/NADA or the total $$ amount financed does not exceed $125,000 then you can write the policy.
If you're interested in the Z, come on over to the Z forums and chat a bit. There's a "Meet the Members" and "Prices Paid" and a few others Z-related. I have a Redline Touring Roadster (2005) and love it. Surprisingly, it's more practical than you might think at first glance - there's a fair amount of storage space for what it is, and gas mileage is not too bad - around 18- 20 around town, 25 to just under 26 on the highway, steady speed.
Re dealer experiences, I will walk out if I see ADMs on the window sticker. Just not interested in doing business with those dealers, period, having learned my lesson years ago with buying my Stanza from such a place. I was young and foolish then; older and wiser now. I've owned several Nissan products since then, but have never returned to the place I bought the Stanza from. Guess they made an extra few hundred on me then, have lost quite a bit by never getting me back as a return customer.
I always thought ADM was simply added profit for a particular car, not the inflated prices of dealer installed options, like pinstripes. With the options, at least you are getting something for the money. I thought ADM was simply markup without adding anything to the car. Of course, I may be wrong.
I let a customer to test-drive an S8 - only after we agreed on numbers, trade-in value and got a credit app.
Strictly speaking, ADM is simply additional markup of the sticker,however alot of dealers do use the pretext of adding mop and glo,VIN etching,pinstripes etc, to justify the increase in price.
Some dealers just use that sticker to put the ADM charge on. Others use it for the pinstripes,chrome wheels etc.
My point exactly. Way back in 1980 I bought a Dodge under favorable terms. Back then they only gave 12K warranties. At 13K I noticed the paint peeling off the front under the bumper. Asked for a repaint, the dealer refused. Went to the Attorney General and forced them to do it. As I was dropping the car off the tech turns to me and says: " I don't know why they refused you, we've been repainting these for everybody else."
I've never been back to that dealer since. I've bought 7 cars since then.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Just wondering.
-Moo
Yes!
A friend of mine sells Chevy, Mazda, Hyundai, and Cadillac. I always bought at invoice, and always bought what he was selling.
A few years ago I started seeing ADM stickers on about half of the mundane cars. They were actually "CMV" stickers. (Current Market Value) :surprise:
A salesman told me "Oh, you don't have to worry about that". I don't know if I was supposed to think to myself - "Wow,I'm special", but all I could think of was "weaslebastards".
We now have a Nissan, a Subaru, and a BMW.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Not to long ago when Suzuki came out with their SX4 I got into a discussion about it so I stopped by a dealer to check it out. Would you believe they had a $5K ADM on the car? The salesman who came up to me said the exact same thing. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I had a 95’ Bonneville that started to shed paint in blotches in 2000, it had just under 48K miles. I called Pontiac to see what they would do. They told me to take it to the local Pontiac dealership and to have them take a look at it and get back to him at Pontiac. I took it to the local Pontiac dealer and told them the story and the guy at the body shop said GM had a primer and paint compatibility problem in that era but he never saw them make an adjustment at his place on cars that were older than 3 years but since my car was almost perfect otherwise (his words, and he went on to say their used car manager would kill to have this car on his lot IF it had paint).
The body shop guy said that if Pontiac was going to make an exception, it should be my car. I go home and about an hour later I get a call from the guy at Pontiac saying he was going to have the Pontiac District Rep. look at the car and make the call as what Pontiac would do. I take my car back to the dealer and leave it there to await the decision. About a half hour later I get a call from the guy at Pontiac saying the District Rep. was not going to authorize repainting my car. I said that was a pretty quick decision, he must have been around the corner to have done it that fast. He tells me the Rep. didn’t even see the car, he just said NO from his cell phone when the body shop called him.
He said what did I really want them to do since the car was five years old? I said I’ve been a loyal GM customer since I had my first car (NEVER even once owned anything else) and they were all a lot more than five years old and they all had paint when I got rid of them and furthermore, I never knew paint was considered a consumable item on a car. I asked the guy at Pontiac to e-mail their decision so I could have it for my records. Believe it or not he sent me an e-mail that accurately stated Pontiac’s position. I really didn’t expect to get one at all let alone one that was that detailed.
I've never been back to that dealer since. I've bought 7 cars since then.
When I bought my last two cars (05’ and 06’) and when my two sons bought their last two cars each (4 cars) after this event with Pontiac we each e-mailed a copy of the Pontiac e-mail I received, along with scanned copies of the bill of sales for all 6 cars to Pontiac and GM stating why we don’t plan to buy anything else from GM. FWIW, several friends and acquaintances have also sent my e-mail and copies of their bill of sales to the same e-mail addresses. By my last count, I think 12 e-mails have been sent to Pontiac and GM. Will they get the point? I’m sure they won’t but as a dissatisfied customer, this was the best I could come up with.
On top of this, my 95’ Monte Carlo with 67K miles in 2005 started to drink water and would cost at least $1200 to replace the head gaskets. I gave that car to Goodwill and received a statement that I could claim $700 as a gift on my 05’ 1040 tax return.
I’m sure posters have heard me speak poorly of GM; “Now you know the rest of the story”.
Sorry for the length of this post but I wanted to fully explain the situation.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I suppose if it were a court of law that legally they were under no obligation (although the Attorney General's office thought different).
I should have mentioned that even though I had gone over milage on warranty the car was only 9 months old. It turned out later that this was a design defect on that model and Dodge was doing repaints for the asking to avoid a recall.
A dealer is never under obligation to do anything beyond what is the bare minimum the law requires. ADM are not illegal, telling customers to drop dead on repairs isn't either. My point was that when you operate like that, people will shop elsewhere. It's short sighted in my opinion.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
it strikes me that with the paint incompatibility problem, that email was probably prepared a long time before you had the shop go to bat for you.
i wonder what district reps do, besides say "NO".