I guess I shouldn't have named names but I couldn't bite my tongue any longer. Thene is probably the "nicest" poster here whose upbeat posts contribute greatly to the quality of this forum.
I have seen a lot of people come and go and I sure don't want her to leave in disgust as so many others have.
Man... after all these years and now I get a written invitation! :shades:
You guys are ganging up on ole snake... that's not cool. He's a good guy who makes things interesting around here. Even though at opposite ends of a multitude of "debates" with snake, I've always enjoyed his posts. We all have our bad days... so ease up o.k? If you've got to pick on someone... pick on isell (written permission) or jmonroe.
Orriginally I thought 50% but the store made a profit of $900 ( not including any packs or RO's ) Paid $450 to the sales person total front end $1350 ( assuming the sales person doesn't get paid on the back)... It's actually like 33.3% comm. plan. We do have edumacated people here that might be able to correct me with only a high school diploma. :shades:
Pack will vary from store to store, but say it is $500 and there are no outstanding RO's. That leaves a sales department profit of $850 - need to pay sales and sales managers minis. Sales mini most often $100. Pay sales manager and sales departments share of overhead and not much if any left for net profit. May be a deal they say NO to.
30% is nothing here, we pay 40% when you hit your 14th unit retro back to the first one.
We are 1-9.5=25% 10-13.5=35% 14+=40%
Plus demo and unit bonuses
Thats a nice pay plan.... Sales people get Demos too?
Thats nice...
We have
20% from Net, Net on the front
10% on the Back , we don't do our own F&I
No demos
Plus monthly bonuses units, High gross, MOst units, + CSI bonus If you qualify.
Speaking of which i just got a 78 csi today on lady we blew car out to steal from another dealer. The woman knew about the CSI always gave hugs and kisses literally when she comes in. Even wrote nice things in survey. Some people just can't give exellents... They were all goods. What can you do except move on.... :confuse:
Oh man don't talk about pay plans it just makes me more depressed...
Used cars 20% off gross after 300 dollar pack and any other charges.
New cars
1-5 15% 6-9 18% 10+ 22%
Retroactive to the first car BUT packs are two or three percent of INVOICE depending on the model. It just takes all the gross out of a deal before you even start it.
Oh I forgot we do get demos so that makes up for some of it. I asked to be taken out of my Land Rover demo when I bought the new house. My garage was too small to fit a Land Rover in and I didn't feel like getting 13 mpg for a 30 minute one way commute.
Ours is retro and if you own a LR, hit 8 units or 25k gross (front and back) you get $300 car allowance. Not enough to take me out of the Harley. Packs are Range Rover $700, LR3 and Sport $500, S/C $700, LR2 $300. Used are $500. Pack can make a big income difference
Elderly people are the worst at giving surveys. It seems there is always SOMETHING. They leave happy but they just seem to find some detail they didn't like.
A pack or Lot Charge is something that is deducted from the gross before the salesperson gets paid.
So if I have 6,000 dollars worth of Gross in a Range Rover I get paid on the 6,000 dollars minus the 3 percent of invoice pack. On some cars that pack can be over 2,000 dollars.
Used cars have a pack to help pay for come backs within the first 60 days or so.
isell - i appreciate the kind words! regardless of the comments i may receive, i wouldn't leave. my job is too boring to just give up posting/reading on the edmunds forums!!
i don't want to keep this whole thing going, but i did want to say one more thing. i dont think snake is a bad person - and i do find his posts to be entertaining at times. i just hope that he can keep the unnecessary jabs to a minimum, to make this forum fun for all.
im sorry to have made such a big dramatic deal over this :P i have my dad's temper (he's greek!)
my pay plan at my old dealer stunk. its so bad i don't even remember it now. ha ha! my current payplan isn't so bad - a nice salary, paid vacation, and no pack! (thats because i don't work in car sales anymore!)
but the job isn't quite as fun, even if the hours are better...
i cant remember now if it was madmanmoo or boomchek, but someone mentioned a while back having a good story, then holding off on telling it for some silly reason.
well, now's a good time to tell it! so please tell some stories from the front line - i mean, its what I come here for!
i cant remember now if it was madmanmoo or boomchek, but someone mentioned a while back having a good story, then holding off on telling it for some silly reason.
i know you had one too, but this was a different one that someone decided NOT to tell at that point in time...
maybe the day has just taken its toll on me and i am mistaken though - i have been all over the place today, and haven't even had a chance to do any work of my own!
It was moo who had a story he was waiting to tell. He was aggravated over the off-topic thread at that time,or being hosed by a customer(again)... something like that.
edited: Or, it could be about what is in the link mac provided.
If you guys were paid a % on the price of the car all the buyer would have to do is keep from being moved from an Echo to a Sequoia. 2 or 3 k extra would net you not much and the pushing for price would be a non issue. Thereby making customers more willing to buy. Right now trades are pitiful and the drive off depreciation has folks waiting for better days. Minis are not caused by buyers. It seems owners seeking rediculous profits do that to their own salespeople.
Many many years ago in a land far away when I began this car venture I was working at a Dodge store learning my trade. In comes this nice couple in their 80's. At this time, (early 90's) Dakotas had several really putrid retro colors available. The ugliest was an indescribable green that many years before had graced the bodies of full size Ram Vans. Well, to make an eternally long story short to relieve the boredom, they bought the truck. As they were waiting for F&I, the gentleman was going into buyers remorse. He turns to his bride and says "Mabel, I'm not to sure about the color." Mabel turns to him and retorts, "It will be allright - it is just like the van we bought 30 years ago" And so it was.
The problem with paying flats is that you have a hard time attracting good sales people.
We don't work 60-70 hours a week including every weekend and put up with the crap from people we do for the fun of it. We do it because we know every month if we work hard and smart there is an opportunity for a big pay day.
There is no way in the world I would do this job for average or even slightly above average wages.
My bankruptcy business dropped to zero for six months after the new law went into effect...
The historical average was about 2500 Chapter 7s per month in the NDGA until Aug, 2005...then 3500 in Sep, 2005...in Oct, 2005, when the law changed, it jumped to 10,500, and that was just in the first two weeks of Oct...
In Nov, 2005, the entire district dropped from 10,500 to 347...you read it right...347...
It has taken much time to "grow back"
You are right about tax returns...basically the Bankruptcy law states that in order to take advantage of one part of the federal code, Bankruptcy, you must be in compliance with all other parts of the federal code, the usual one meaning income tax returns...I have had a few clients file 04, 05 and 06 returns all at once, simply to comply with the Law to file Chapter 7...
For 2006, an extension will suffice, since you would still be in compliance with the Code, but I need to see your 2006 W2 or 1099(s) to be sure you did not exceed the limits for Ch 7...
Ballpark limits for GA
Household size 1 2 3 4
Income Limit $37,500 $50,000 $56,000 $66,000
Household size is NOT defined as the number of people under your roof...it is defined as the number of people under your roof that are claimed exemptions on your Federal 1040 Tax return...
So, If a married couple with 3 kids, 2 are minor dependents but 1 is an adult and not on the parent's tax return as a dependent, plus 2 grandparents are living with them under the same roof, but also NOT dependents, Mom & Dad are feeding and sheltering 7 people, but count legally only as a household of 3...
Don't forget that tried and trusted expression "There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over".
If I had a dollar for everytime I said that. . .
Another of my favourites has to do with the concept that if it takes nine months for a woman to have a baby, why can't we get nine women together to have the baby in one month? . . .or 18 in two weeks?
Some of what I've seen in the aerospace business leaves even me speechless.
But the phrase you brought is absolutely the touchstone for those of us who would rather get it right the first time, while there's still time.
I have had a few clients file 04, 05 and 06 returns all at once, simply to comply with the Law to file Chapter 7...
I have noticed a slight increase in people filing multiple year tax returns the last year or so. I wonder if the new bankruptcy law had anything to do with that. The only thing is you can't e-file past years returns.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Summary: My BMW 330 lease ends in August and I'm too worried about long-term reliability and resale (SMG tranny) to keep it. I test-drove a bunch of more affordable cars ($25K-$30K) to look for a replacement we could pay cash for and then not have a payment for 5-6 years. After numerous drives, I landed on an Acura TSX (6MT w/navi)...which is right in the middle of the model-year changeover. There aren't any known major differences between '07s and '08s--'09 is the big redesign. The first dealer I went to offered me sticker (~$30.6K) on an '07; I told him I had seen as low as $27.5K on message board. He countered at ~$29.7K. I sent a request from Edmunds to other local dealers. The other two came back, both at around $29.5K. I talked to the third dealer some more--he was willing to either a) give me $1500 off and locate an '07 6MT navi (which he did--in Boulder, CO--then said it would be at least $800 to ship) or b) order me an '08 out of their initial allotment. I asked him if he would do $1500 off on an '08--he laughed and said, "No, there's pretty much no dealing on the new ones--they aren't even on the ground yet."
I decided to take another tack and found that there's a car buying service/broker that's partnered with the company where I work. They don't charge fees direct from the customer--they work it out with the dealer. They ended up using a contact from the first dealer I went to and he agreed to order me an '08 for $900 over invoice (whatever that turns out to be). Given my experience in this market, I felt that it was a fair offer and I accepted. I talked to the guy today and it looks like I'm getting one of the initial '08s, Silver over Ebony, 6MT navi in mid- to late-August.
The situation is that I called both of the other dealers and told them what had happened and that I was no longer in the market. Dealer #2, I never heard from again (OK with me). Dealer #3 called back and left a message asking me to call him back if I wanted to tell him #1's price to see if he could beat it. I didn't feel right about it, so I chose not to call him back.
Today, he called emailed me again. I responded with basically the same info as above. He replied, "Sorry about that.... I can usually beat any special deals XXXXXX has set up with employers. We work with many large Minnesota based companies here as well.
Let me know what they are willing to do for you and let's see if I can't beat their deal."
I responded, "I appreciate the offer to beat their deal but, frankly, it doesn't feel right to me. I spoke with all 3 dealers in the state and no one was willing to deal on '08s, including you guys. The buying service got me a deal that I couldn't have gotten on my own, and XXXXXX is willing to get the car for me at a fixed price with no deposit required. I feel that I've given them my word on the deal. Thanks again!"
My wife was thinking I should see what he can offer. I really like getting a deal and saving money, but I also feel like XXXXXX dealer stepped up and did a deal when no one else would and that I should honor that deal. Sorry this is so long, but what do you guys think, especially dealers? I mean, if the tables were turned and #3 was having his deal stolen by #1 after I gave my word, would he be here on this forum complaining about customers who don't honor their deals/orders/word?
First off I'd want to know what $900 over invoice includes. Does it include dealer fees and other add-ons? You could end up paying more than "whatever that is".
The other part of your question is ethical in nature. If he already ordered it you should take it. If not it shouldn't be a big deal.
I would have handled that exactly the way you did. You gave the dealers every chance to earn your business before going with the broker. Dealer #3 could be playing games with you.
1) No, just the price. If the spread from '07s holds true, it's about a $1550-$1600 discount from MSRP. Similar to what the guy was offering on '07s, but no one would move on '08s. They said MN isn't a competitive Acura market with only 3 dealers.
2) Technically, yes, it's been ordered. However, it wasn't ordered for me--dealers had to make their orders for the initial allotment of cars, expected to arrive in August. So, the car was already ordered before the buying service talked to them. He's giving me a better discount than he probably would have given a buyer who came into the showroom in August to look at them, I think.
"I would have handled that exactly the way you did. You gave the dealers every chance to earn your business before going with the broker. Dealer #3 could be playing games with you."
Ditto.
By the way, Rick, congratulations! I'm familiar with the TSX. $900 above factory invoice on a TSX, at the very beginning of a new model year, sounds like a very good deal -- especially considering you have limited competition in your state!
Stick with the deal you have now, and wait for the car to arrive.
Any dealer can usually beat any price. You might get a better deal by $1-100, but then you already made a commitment to your original dealer AND made them and the broker work for you.
Plus if the place where you ordered have the only 08 TSX in the combination that you want coming in, and if the dealer that wants to beat the price doesn't have it, chances are the original dealer won't give up the car to the price beating dealer.
So the pack is there as "free" profit to the dealer (meaning that he isn't paying commissions out of it) to pay for... what? Are they using pack money to pay for something having to do with selling the car?
So the pack is there as "free" profit to the dealer (meaning that he isn't paying commissions out of it) to pay for... what? Are they using pack money to pay for something having to do with selling the car?
Basically yes, it is the portion of the commission that the dealer gets 100% of (with the exception of the fact at our store MGR's get paid on the it and the DOC. Different uses for different stores. Our PAC/PACK is $500 on all units unless it ACV's for less the $3000 then it is a $150. T In all the years I have done this I don't know if it is an acronym for something or not.
Comments
I have seen a lot of people come and go and I sure don't want her to leave in disgust as so many others have.
Pick on me if you want but not her!
Consider that it is also off topic to dedicate a thread to an individual. Let's focus a bit more and stay on topic!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Man... after all these years and now I get a written invitation! :shades:
You guys are ganging up on ole snake... that's not cool. He's a good guy who makes things interesting around here. Even though at opposite ends of a multitude of "debates" with snake, I've always enjoyed his posts. We all have our bad days... so ease up o.k? If you've got to pick on someone... pick on isell (written permission) or jmonroe.
Not me though... I
Orriginally I thought 50% but the store made a profit of $900 ( not including any packs or RO's ) Paid $450 to the sales person total front end $1350 ( assuming the sales person doesn't get paid on the back)... It's actually like 33.3% comm. plan. We do have edumacated people here that might be able to correct me with only a high school diploma. :shades:
30% is nothing here, we pay 40% when you hit your 14th unit retro back to the first one.
We are
1-9.5=25%
10-13.5=35%
14+=40%
Plus demo and unit bonuses
We are
1-5 20%
6-8 23%
9-11 25%
12+ 28%
We are low volume - but also get same % on back end as we do our own F&I
30% is nothing here, we pay 40% when you hit your 14th unit retro back to the first one.
We are
1-9.5=25%
10-13.5=35%
14+=40%
Plus demo and unit bonuses
Thats a nice pay plan.... Sales people get Demos too?
Thats nice...
We have
20% from Net, Net on the front
10% on the Back , we don't do our own F&I
No demos
Plus monthly bonuses units, High gross, MOst units, + CSI bonus If you qualify.
Speaking of which i just got a 78 csi today on lady we blew car out to steal from another dealer. The woman knew about the CSI always gave hugs and kisses literally when she comes in. Even wrote nice things in survey. Some people just can't give exellents... They were all goods. What can you do except move on.... :confuse:
The old adage, the higher the gross, the better the CSI
Isn't that the truth. It always amazes me :surprise:
Used cars 20% off gross after 300 dollar pack and any other charges.
New cars
1-5 15%
6-9 18%
10+ 22%
Retroactive to the first car BUT packs are two or three percent of INVOICE depending on the model. It just takes all the gross out of a deal before you even start it.
Salespeople get a $250 Demo Allowance that goes to $350 if they sell 10.
Salespeople get a $250 Demo Allowance that goes to $350 if they sell 10.
Demo allowances are nice....
That cracks me up the controller gets a Demo too...
All I know is a controller can make your life miserable if they want to.
Teachers and ex teachers are tough too.
So if I have 6,000 dollars worth of Gross in a Range Rover I get paid on the 6,000 dollars minus the 3 percent of invoice pack. On some cars that pack can be over 2,000 dollars.
Used cars have a pack to help pay for come backs within the first 60 days or so.
Don't think it matters anymore though you know.
We just like to give straight no-nonsense answers.
Pollsters don't like us either because we ask too many questions.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
i don't want to keep this whole thing going, but i did want to say one more thing. i dont think snake is a bad person - and i do find his posts to be entertaining at times. i just hope that he can keep the unnecessary jabs to a minimum, to make this forum fun for all.
im sorry to have made such a big dramatic deal over this :P i have my dad's temper
my pay plan at my old dealer stunk. its so bad i don't even remember it now. ha ha! my current payplan isn't so bad - a nice salary, paid vacation, and no pack! (thats because i don't work in car sales anymore!)
but the job isn't quite as fun, even if the hours are better...
i cant remember now if it was madmanmoo or boomchek, but someone mentioned a while back having a good story, then holding off on telling it for some silly reason.
well, now's a good time to tell it! so please tell some stories from the front line - i mean, its what I come here for!
-thene
That was me and I still can't tell it yet.
maybe the day has just taken its toll on me and i am mistaken though - i have been all over the place today, and haven't even had a chance to do any work of my own!
did you get my email?
It was madmanmoo, a couple of weeks ago.
C'mon mad, spill it.
madmanmoo, "Stories from the Sales Frontlines" #11929, 25 May 2007 7:27 am
edited: Or, it could be about what is in the link mac provided.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
And so it was.
We don't work 60-70 hours a week including every weekend and put up with the crap from people we do for the fun of it. We do it because we know every month if we work hard and smart there is an opportunity for a big pay day.
There is no way in the world I would do this job for average or even slightly above average wages.
I take it then just because it comes out of your mouth its true? there is a word for that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Where the hey did did that come from?
Try 'isell' he's well rested and I'll let him handle my light work but if you must, in the words of our leader, BRING IT ON.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The historical average was about 2500 Chapter 7s per month in the NDGA until Aug, 2005...then 3500 in Sep, 2005...in Oct, 2005, when the law changed, it jumped to 10,500, and that was just in the first two weeks of Oct...
In Nov, 2005, the entire district dropped from 10,500 to 347...you read it right...347...
It has taken much time to "grow back"
You are right about tax returns...basically the Bankruptcy law states that in order to take advantage of one part of the federal code, Bankruptcy, you must be in compliance with all other parts of the federal code, the usual one meaning income tax returns...I have had a few clients file 04, 05 and 06 returns all at once, simply to comply with the Law to file Chapter 7...
For 2006, an extension will suffice, since you would still be in compliance with the Code, but I need to see your 2006 W2 or 1099(s) to be sure you did not exceed the limits for Ch 7...
Ballpark limits for GA
Household size 1 2 3 4
Income Limit $37,500 $50,000 $56,000 $66,000
Household size is NOT defined as the number of people under your roof...it is defined as the number of people under your roof that are claimed exemptions on your Federal 1040 Tax return...
So, If a married couple with 3 kids, 2 are minor dependents but 1 is an adult and not on the parent's tax return as a dependent, plus 2 grandparents are living with them under the same roof, but also NOT dependents, Mom & Dad are feeding and sheltering 7 people, but count legally only as a household of 3...
Household of 1: $37,500
Household of 2: $50,000
Household of 3: $56,000
Household of 4: $66,000
add $6,300 per member of household over 4
If I had a dollar for everytime I said that. . .
Another of my favourites has to do with the concept that if it takes nine months for a woman to have a baby, why can't we get nine women together to have the baby in one month? . . .or 18 in two weeks?
Some of what I've seen in the aerospace business leaves even me speechless.
But the phrase you brought is absolutely the touchstone for those of us who would rather get it right the first time, while there's still time.
I have noticed a slight increase in people filing multiple year tax returns the last year or so. I wonder if the new bankruptcy law had anything to do with that. The only thing is you can't e-file past years returns.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I decided to take another tack and found that there's a car buying service/broker that's partnered with the company where I work. They don't charge fees direct from the customer--they work it out with the dealer. They ended up using a contact from the first dealer I went to and he agreed to order me an '08 for $900 over invoice (whatever that turns out to be). Given my experience in this market, I felt that it was a fair offer and I accepted. I talked to the guy today and it looks like I'm getting one of the initial '08s, Silver over Ebony, 6MT navi in mid- to late-August.
The situation is that I called both of the other dealers and told them what had happened and that I was no longer in the market. Dealer #2, I never heard from again (OK with me). Dealer #3 called back and left a message asking me to call him back if I wanted to tell him #1's price to see if he could beat it. I didn't feel right about it, so I chose not to call him back.
Today, he called emailed me again. I responded with basically the same info as above. He replied, "Sorry about that.... I can usually beat any special deals XXXXXX has set up with employers. We work with many large Minnesota based companies here as well.
Let me know what they are willing to do for you and let's see if I can't beat their deal."
I responded, "I appreciate the offer to beat their deal but, frankly, it doesn't feel right to me. I spoke with all 3 dealers in the state and no one was willing to deal on '08s, including you guys. The buying service got me a deal that I couldn't have gotten on my own, and XXXXXX is willing to get the car for me at a fixed price with no deposit required. I feel that I've given them my word on the deal. Thanks again!"
My wife was thinking I should see what he can offer. I really like getting a deal and saving money, but I also feel like XXXXXX dealer stepped up and did a deal when no one else would and that I should honor that deal. Sorry this is so long, but what do you guys think, especially dealers? I mean, if the tables were turned and #3 was having his deal stolen by #1 after I gave my word, would he be here on this forum complaining about customers who don't honor their deals/orders/word?
The other part of your question is ethical in nature. If he already ordered it you should take it. If not it shouldn't be a big deal.
1) No, just the price. If the spread from '07s holds true, it's about a $1550-$1600 discount from MSRP. Similar to what the guy was offering on '07s, but no one would move on '08s. They said MN isn't a competitive Acura market with only 3 dealers.
2) Technically, yes, it's been ordered. However, it wasn't ordered for me--dealers had to make their orders for the initial allotment of cars, expected to arrive in August. So, the car was already ordered before the buying service talked to them. He's giving me a better discount than he probably would have given a buyer who came into the showroom in August to look at them, I think.
Ditto.
By the way, Rick, congratulations! I'm familiar with the TSX. $900 above factory invoice on a TSX, at the very beginning of a new model year, sounds like a very good deal -- especially considering you have limited competition in your state!
Any dealer can usually beat any price. You might get a better deal by $1-100, but then you already made a commitment to your original dealer AND made them and the broker work for you.
Plus if the place where you ordered have the only 08 TSX in the combination that you want coming in, and if the dealer that wants to beat the price doesn't have it, chances are the original dealer won't give up the car to the price beating dealer.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Thanks for the help.
I believe the assumption is that the price includes everything but tax tag & title, and no other dealer fees.
Basically yes, it is the portion of the commission that the dealer gets 100% of (with the exception of the fact at our store MGR's get paid on the it and the DOC. Different uses for different stores. Our PAC/PACK is $500 on all units unless it ACV's for less the $3000 then it is a $150. T
In all the years I have done this I don't know if it is an acronym for something or not.