Stories from the Sales Frontlines

laurasdada

Hi, Mack: Monday night game, 8:30-9:00EST?

I think, although Belichick seems to get a lot of the credit, is that the Pats have become the Perfect Storm of an organiziation: Owner, GM, Coach and players. Cheerleaders aren't too bad either! Just keep Brady away from 'em.

Wonder what Tom did with his two SUper Bowl Caddy's he won as MVP? They're probably still in the shop...

fezo

I hear if the GM strike last more than a week they'll stop making Vauxhall parts.....

british_rover

Were you looking at a paper from 1965? :P

fezo

I dunno. I was trying to read over brentwood's shoulder....

im_brentwood

Blasphemy will not be tolerated.....

im_brentwood

I did pull the UAW sticker off of the Caddy

grandtotal

Thanks, that is not the answer I expected, but thinking about it it makes good sense. It's going to get interesting here in a few years then because a large number of Canadians are buying (or intending to buy) from the US because of the current exchange rate.

I've just bought a Canadian-sourced Prius and in the light of your answer I am glad I did. That and the fact that I would forego $4k of rebates if I had bought in the US which almost, but not quite, cancels out the difference between the two countries.

fezo

"I did pull the UAW sticker off of the Caddy"

How about the one that said "made in Tijuana? :P

qbrozen

although Belichick seems to get a lot of the credit

Yeah, I watched last night and I think him getting food and clothing with no definitive proof that he did meet Whistler in the sewers was kinda far fetched in such a supposedly tough prison.

Oh... wait... you're talking about something else that's on TV Monday nights, aren't you?

tidester

It’s what ever we want it to be.

I think we're overdoing it a bit with the football chatter.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

jescue

Are you calling a time out?

tidester

Yes.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

[Deleted User]

no time out, times run out!!!

im_brentwood

Nah, that's still on the bundles in the trunk :P

roadburner

What do you think of the current Alpina B7? I'm going to be logging some hours in one in a week or so.

imidazol97

exb0

Mack, I took your advice and test drove the Camry SE. I swear, comparing Camry to BMW is like comparing Miss America to a Harley Babe. I took a corner a bit too fast, but not any faster than I usually do, all I can say is SCAAARY. I think Buick LeSabre has tighter suspension than the Camry SE. Camry’s suspension can’t even compare to my TL, much less the BMW.

Question for the guys in the biz. Do you usually offer 3K under the Black Book for trade-ins on first pencil, and do you get away with it? I was just offered 17.5 for the 04 TL w/ 29K on the clock. After that I didn’t even want to talk to them. It’s like when a customer offers 3K under street value for a new car, how long would it take the salesman to show him the door? It works both ways.

joel0622

Question for the guys in the biz. Do you usually offer 3K under the Black Book for trade-ins on first pencil, and do you get away with it? I was just offered 17.5 for the 04 TL w/ 29K on the clock. After that I didn’t even want to talk to them. It’s like when a customer offers 3K under street value for a new car, how long would it take the salesman to show him the door? It works both ways.

Ya never know till you ask, and that works both ways.

All negotiations start out with both party's establishing a starting point and then finding middle ground from there. All you internet shoppers have taken the fun and the thrill out of the biz.

I used to tell trainees that making gross was no different then chasing women in my younger days. The only guarentee was that you were not getting crap if you never asked.

dino001

I would treat lowball trade offers same way as ADM stickers. They're irrelevant - you give the guy a chance to correct, if acts too slow, walk away and let them know why.

cotmc

I just ran an 04 TL thru Edmunds Used Car appraisal process (for my area), and it appears there is a very large difference depending on whether it is considered in "clean" or "average" condition. It provided an estimated trade-in value of $20.5K if "clean", but only $18.3K if "average". So, if the dealer has reason to price your car as an "average" '04 TL, then this really wasn't such a terrible low-ball offer.

Also, as a question to you guyz in the biz out there, do dealerships typically provide much more money on trade-ins for low-mile trade-ins? My experience has been that I will always get my bid deducted if I trade-in a car with high mileage, but I rarely receive much of a bid increase due to low mileage.

exb0

No offense to our hosts, but Edmunds is meaningless in the real world. When I mentioned the Black Book, they raised their offer to 19,4, but it followed by the standard: “If we give you this for your car, will you buy our car TODAY?”. They were $500 under MSRP. All I could say was Good Bye.

british_rover

Most cars are average cars and not clean or excellent to use a KBB term.

For a car to be in that top condition category it would have to have extremely low mileage for the year, brand new brakes and tires, no scratches, chips, dings on the outside. No marks of any kind on the inside. All the services better be up to date and it better be a perfect car. Essentially it needs to be brand new off the showroom floor which is why very few cars are in the condition. I think KBB even says on their website that less then 5 percent of used cars are in the top category.

cotmc

"I think we're overdoing it a bit with the football chatter."

I completely agree. There's way too much discussion about football, and not enough chatter about baseball -- especially the NL playoff races! The Mets and Padres are running out of gas; while the Cubs and Rockies are now firing on all cylinders. Then there are the D-backs (whose manager deserves to be skipper of the year) and Phillies. This is fun to watch, at least until the World Series!

Yeah, this post is also way off-topic, but after reading all the football posts, I couldn't resist...

jmonroe

All negotiations start out with both party's establishing a starting point and then finding middle ground from there.

I understand this but when the customer says, “can you give me your best price, I’m serious about buying and I don’t want to play games going back and forth, OK”? What I have heard from people I know and what I have heard here, the sales person still resorts to standard car selling 101. So, given this happens how quickly do you (Joel) get right to the point of selling a car?

All you internet shoppers have taken the fun and the thrill out of the biz.

Because of what happens as I just mentioned above, this is why I started off via the internet the last two times I bought. I’m not saying that I was given the best price right out of the chute but I was not wasting my time in a show room playing games. In the end there will always be some negotiating, I just want to minimize it while in the comfort of my easy chair.

I’ve said this before, “until the internet method stops working, I’ll stay with it”.

jmonroe

dino001

Clean is equivalent of KBBs "good", rating not "excellent". Most 2-4 year old car should fall into that category quite easily, unless the driver was a heavy smoker, or had three boys playing war in the backseat every day to school.

dino001

All you internet shoppers have taken the fun and the thrill out of the biz.

C'mon Joel, it's not fun we took away - it's easy grosses. Just be honest for once

cotmc

BR: "Clean" is not the highest (top) condition category. Instead, "clean" is somewhere between the "Outstanding" and "Average" categories.

Oops, I see dino beat me to the punch on this one!

fezo

I'll tell you. The dumb dance that takes hours on price has resulted in me deciding to keep the current car more often than I have bought new cars.

A new car is a fun experience but if I need to go through four hours of crap in a dealership it simply isn't worth it.

I suppose I should be grateful that that's the way the game is generally played because not buying a car is virtually always the correct financial decision.

im_brentwood

You mean the Pontiac G12? I think I'm keeping my E38

exb0

BINGO!!! That's exactly how I feel.

graphicguy

kyfdx....my seats are around the 40, Bengals side, row 30.....we should meet up somewhere.

Oh, yeah....Bengals win this one!

Stayin on topic, the poster that has the TL. I think Terry (rroyce) has always said, those cars have some of the best resale in the industry. In my 'burg (SW OH) the 07s tend to be lingering, however. Plus, they have a $2,500 Acura to dealer incentive. That can't bode well for used TLs.

roadburner

Well, it is a bit of a boat, and I do prefer the E38. Still, 500 hp should somewhat redeem it...

british_rover

Yeah I see my mistake. I forgot there was a category above clean.

jmonroe

I suppose I should be grateful that that's the way the game is generally played because not buying a car is virtually always the correct financial decision.

Easy for you to say. When I go to buy a car it’s because the car is used up or Mrs. jmonroe has thrown the towel in on it. So, given I’ve got to get a car when I start looking, I’m trying to make it as painless as I can.

Now I’m sure you see where I’m coming from.

jmonroe

jmonroe

Oh, yeah....Bengals win this one!

I want some of what this guy is on.

Haven't seen ya for a while; it would be nice though.

jmonroe

kyfdx

I'll e-mail you...

grandtotal

I suppose I should be grateful that that's the way the game is generally played because not buying a car is virtually always the correct financial decision.

I agree entirely. I come home empty handed probably 50% of the time. I end up replacing cars around the 5-6 year mark instead of the 3 year mark. Probably not a bad thing because cars last that long without the need for repair these days.

dino001

I call it "jackpot" system. Other industries do that, too. As Joel explained in plain words - you don't get it if you don't ask. What they don't see are the lost profits on customers they turned off by their initial action. It's like in a casino: the wins are always easy to spot and count. The losses are not, so there is no way for Joel to know how many customer turned away when they heard first offer, especially those who walked because it was so outrageus.

There are other industries employing "jackpot" strategies. Healthcare comes in mind - compare their "retail" price for uninsured and "network" price for insurance customers. It is apparently worth for them to go through paperwork and attempt to extract $5 for Tylenol pill first (perhaps a sucker will pay) - then when refused they often settle for a tenth of it or less.

joel0622

I refuse to have this conversation again

joel0622

Maybe not in pure $$ but for the severity of it. Working a deal right now where a guy owes $18.5K on a $2K sled. It is a 205 Chevy Colorado with a siezed engine and 149K miles on it.

fezo

Ah! Now there's a customer you can be sure won't walk! Well, maybe he'll walk but he won't drive away unless it's in a vehicle you sell him......

jmonroe - I hear you. Our Accord will hit 8 this year and we're fine. I did replace the original Ody with a CPO one and that was an experience that I wish I had not let myself go through. Shoulda used the bobst method. I'd have been good either way - accept or decline.

micosilver

I come home empty handed probably 50% of the time.

Which mean when you buy - it's an impulse buy. Nothing to be proud of.
You should go buying a car when you are ready to buy a car, not to go in hoping someone will MAKE you buy it...

british_rover

How do you put that many miles on a Colorado in less three years or less. I couldn't imagine putting that many miles on a car as uncomfortable as a Colorado.

jescue

I guess its better than a Montana.

british_rover

What is GM going to do when they run out of unoriginal outdoorsy western state names?

fezo

If there were no impulse buys you couldn't make a living selling cars.

I think the last thing he wants is someone to MAKE him buy a car. That's certainly not what a salesman is there for. Now to entice him to buy a car is something else.

Heck, I look at a lot more food than I eat. Why should cars be any different?

[Deleted User]

Maybe they'll start using letter/number combinations ;)

grandtotal

Which mean when you buy - it's an impulse buy. Nothing to be proud of.

Ha, you don't know me do you? I am about as far removed from an impulse buyer as it's possible to get. My wife calls me anal detail oriented. I go ready to buy, there and then, but come away empty handed. At the 3 year point I'd be happy to replace the car (and have) but I am not in a position where I must (actually I never get there) so I am prepared to walk if I can't get a deal I am happy with.

british_rover

Ughh those bother me too.

Stupid marketing people get companies to dump all their model names with any kind of heritage because it is more important to identify with the brand over the model or so they say.

The whole idea is to get people to move up from model to model more easily.

jescue

I think it will be tough for anyone to beat the Merkur XR4Ti.