Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    After 2 months, I'm still learning from you guys. I know GM, UCM, NCM, CR, F&I,---but what is the "four pounder"? I'm guessing $400 or $4,000. I saw one of those sales meetings on---60 Minutes? a few years ago. I never saw such screaming in the face except on a military base. Are they really that bad? Reaching quotas has to be a tough career. When I was in HR I answered to an 11 member board once a month regarding my hiring targets. If I had a bad month, I heard such things as "Do we need to get someone else?" Trouble was no one wanted my job. When I retired, my replacement lasted a year.

    Don't forget to rest. You need your strength now---and later.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    He offered us a rate of 6% (I think) and proceeded to do the whole warranty, lojack, paint protection bit. When we declined it all, he said our interest rate now was 7% (1% more).

    Are you sure you weren't trying to buy a 'diamond' from the brother of the saleswoman that 'exbo' had? You know, post 19777. :confuse:

    I'm just wondering if this is normal or legal.

    That's the way some of them do it in the car biz. You've been here long enough to know that, right? ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    jmonroe is correct. They just do this. You have to negotiate the interest rate like you do the car price. I purchased a car last Saturday. The F&I guy at first quoted a rate of 7.99%. After an hour we wound up at 6.44% because I purchased GAP---which I had planned to get. The rate beat my bank and my credit union. You did well at 5.75%. You just have to negotiate everything---right down to the free tank of gas and one or two free oil changes. I even pulled off a $69.00 alignment and tire balancing service. If you get tired, tell them you need a Coke break. I was there five hours but I have to drive the car much longer than that.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    It is totally illegal to lower or offer to lower an interest rate based on the purchase of GAP, VSC, or any other F&I product. There was once an F&I guy in this area who promised a customer who was an airline employee a lower rate if he could have a buddy pass. I think it cost him $50,000 in fines.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Richard, depends on the environment you work in. If it is a high volume, sell at any cost, we only want to sell you one and forget about you type store then that will happen.

    If it is a business that understand the only way to survive in todays automotive world is approach every customer with the mind set that you don't want to sell them just one car, you want to to sell them, there family, and there friends cars for life then you usually don't have that environment.

    I have been here 14 years and have worked here the least amount of time of any one on the Management Staff except for one guy we just hired to be our UCM at our new store, and we have two F&I, two UCM, 1 NCM, 1 NTM and a GM. Out of 19 sales people we have 6 that have been here longer then me 7 that have been here 10 years and the standard 6 that are always revolving in or out.

    Thats what you get when you don't have an "in your face" style of management. There is no way we could retain people by screaming at them every day. The owner chews on the MGR's regularly but we don't let it roll down hill.

    I really hope we can maintain that when we open our new store and triple in inventory size.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    The next time that you get stung, ask one of the guys who smokes for a cigareete---don't smoke it! Open up the cigareete and wet the tobacco. Place it directly on the bite. It will begin to draw out the poison immediately. If you're at home, an Irish potato will do the same thing. NEVER cut the wound with an "X" and NEVER suck the poison out. It goes into your mouth for heavens sake! Also, mention this to your doctor the next time you're in for a check-up. Your symptons were a little drastic for a sting like that. Your head began to hurt because you were losing a certain amount of oxygen. You can't afford to have your brain affected; you have enough trouble with it now! Glad you're better. No, I'm not a physician---my sister and brother-in-law are though.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    As a matter of fact allot of the contracts now state that the purchase of auxiliary products can not be used to base the financing on. Always do like the previous poster did, ask for the payment and rate based on the OTD price you were given prior to talking about the extras.

    We had a guy one time that we hired to run a special finance department back in late 90's. He lasted about 90 days till we found out he as stealing from the company and customers. His 90 days of employment cost us about $50K.

    Some of his highlights were

    1. Contract you on a 60 months when he only had 48 approved. You would sign the 60 month contract then he would forge your name on a 48 month after you leave.

    2. Tell you that out of your $2000 down $1000 of it was a buy fee and would not show in the contract and you had to bring cash. He would pocket the cash

    3. He would deliver cars that were not approved then hide the deals and get paid on them. The he would throw the whole deal in the trash.

    He started all of this the last 30 days he worked here, made a ton of money off of us and stealing from customers. We new he was screwing us we just had no idea how much until after he was gone.

    We spent 6 months tracking down cars that were on the road that the paper work was in the trash and writing people checks for the difference between what the 60 and 48 month pay out was.

    Oh BTW he is in jail now for embezzlement. Not from us but a used car dealer he went to work for.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Rub some dirt on it, take two Motrin and drive on. That was the Army cure for everything :D
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    My mom used to do that trick but the only person who smokes around here smokes cigars and I didn't want to waste good tobacco.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Certainly makes sense. You get more from your employees with honey than you do lemons. I've got to get you guys straight. These acronyms drive me crazy. We need to do a one-time dictionary post to explain them. Good job for our host, right? Who are the MGR's? I know the others in your post---even figured out the New Truck Manager. You mentioned one the other day about a car---A COS or COP car a customer was buying. I meant to ask you what that was.
  • mrsuzukimrsuzuki Member Posts: 58
    ADM stickers on a high end exotic one thing, on a Suzuki, common. Thing about it is, a Suzuki could use it, there is very little profit in these things.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Now you see why I worry about that brain!
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    There are a million of them but here are the ones you have asked about and a few others.

    CPO Certified Pre Owned

    UCM Used Car Manager

    NTM New Truck Manager

    NCM New car Manager

    GSM General Sales Manager

    SFM Special Finance Manager

    PDI Pre Delivery Inspection

    PPL Pre Paid Lease

    Pounder 1 pound=$1000
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Leave it to the government to have a quick fix!
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    You're on the ball! I printed them off. But you forgot MGR.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Now that IS interesting. The F&I guy last Friday was careful. He would just say things like, "Let me see if I can find something better.", etc.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    It is totally illegal to lower or offer to lower an interest rate based on the purchase of GAP, VSC, or any other F&I product. There was once an F&I guy in this area who promised a customer who was an airline employee a lower rate if he could have a buddy pass. I think it cost him $50,000 in fines.

    Yeah that is a big deal at our stores. I forget what it is called. I haven't woken up yet. But I have seent the package that F&I has to sign in order to get that job and there is a big section about that. Yes it is illegal and when you think about it. It sounds weak and desperate. I can understand discounting product but rate is rate. :confuse:

    Oh I think it just hit me 5 minutes later. I believe it is called "stacking". If anyone can correct me I would apprecxiate it.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Oh BTW he is in jail now for embezzlement. Not from us but a used car dealer he went to work for.

    Can you belive still in this day and age that, that stuff is still going on.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    There are a million of them but here are the ones you have asked about and a few others.

    ACV = Actual Cash Value... What the dealer is really calling the car for

    POI = Proof of income /also could be proof of insurance depends on when it is used

    If you look up car salesman on "wikipedia" It will give you the whole list of terms and processes.
  • mrsuzukimrsuzuki Member Posts: 58
    and not the ice cream. It seems like people's credit is getting worse. I mean 500-550 are one thing, but I'm getting 360-390s WTF?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    You are referring to "packing" payments. That is the practice of telling a customer that the price/payment includes a warranty and GAP, or any other product you may offer. You have packed the price into the payment.

    AFIP states that you must disclose the price of of each item separately and present the consumer with a price and payment with and with out the products. Thats why most place have gone to Menu selling. That allows you to run a fully disclosed office.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    MGR=Manager
  • mrsuzukimrsuzuki Member Posts: 58
    Packing and padding payments are illeagel. Thats why lots of places close people on payment ranges. This give F&I some room to try and atleast get their sales pitch out.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Telling a customer a range with the intent of leaving room for the F&I office is the text book definition of packing payments.

    If a F&I guy can't sell his product with out a pad in his payments then he is an old school step seller and either needs to retrain or change jobs. There just isn't any place for it any more and it will get you in trouble.

    Years ago when it was the excepted practice that is exactly how I sold. It was just the way you did it. Customer would ask for a payment and you would tell them $500 a month and that includes A Warranty, CL/AH, and GAP. If they said that was to much you would take off the GAP, if they still balked off comes the CL, next the A&H and the last thing to come off was the warranty. Then you would start the selling process of actually trying to sell the consumer the products.

    On the off chance they yes to $500 then you just typed them up and away they went. It was no different then them saying yes to the first offer on the front of the deal. No disclosures, no nothing.

    I really prefer the new way of doing it. Using the menu I sell more warranties, and GAP policies, because the consumer is being educated up front.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I was there five hours…

    richard, richard, rich… I thought we learned you better than that. :surprise: It really doesn’t take that long but if you are that slow of a learner, make sure you have them throw in a dinner or two the next time.

    You’ll need to keep your strength up for marathon sessions like that. I can throw out medical advice too, you know. ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    the the $99 a month is only for the first 3 months, with approved credit, and most of their customers won't get approved for this.
  • mrsuzukimrsuzuki Member Posts: 58
    A range is not packing payments. The payment will depend on what rate they get. Therefore we quote the payment in a range.
    "Depending on what rate we are able to get for you, your payments could range from XXX-XXX on 36 months XXX-XXX on 48 months, etc. what works best for you?" These payments do not have any products in them, they are just based off of different rates. This is one of the ways the OADA recommend quoting payments, without exact rates.

    I think you might think we do this in the box, this is done BEFORE F&I.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    My son's car is getting fixed this week so they gave him a rental to drive. Since he has to get on base to work today he asked to borrow the Camry and I'd take the Ford. I was pleasantly surprised! :blush: It's an 06 SEL V6 burgundy with black leather interior, moonroof, alloys, cd, etc. The car feels solid, the doors are heavy and it was very quiet on the way to work. I was doing speeds of 60-70 on the freeway to check out the power. Things I did not like are the power mirror knob control, the driver's seat has a power fore and aft adjustment and up and down but no power seatback adjustment :confuse: Chrysler does this also, I don't know why. Leather was more like something you'd see in a truck and and not a car. Heavy duty stuff. The rear window visibility was poor, the cars behind me looked distorted also. There was a truck behind me and it looked like a Semi through the rear window. There was also some distortion on the front windshield. Other than that I liked the car and would consider it for my personal use. I would get the side/curtain airbags which this one does not have. Joel, what can I get an 08 for?
    Mackabee
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Joel, what can I get an 08 for?

    I think Mack wants to "swap" his ride. :P
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    There was once an F&I guy in this area who promised a customer who was an airline employee a lower rate if he could have a buddy pass. I think it cost him $50,000 in fines.

    It’s nice to know there are fines for this type of behavior but how does the buyer go about proving that this happens? Even multiple accusations against the same store could be difficult to prove in court since disgruntled buyers can say anything they want; unless they’re concerned with perjury

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    If it is a business that understand the only way to survive in todays automotive world is approach every customer with the mind set that you don't want to sell them just one car, you want to to sell them, there family, and there friends cars for life then you usually don't have that environment.

    Even some old timers operated like that.

    I remember my Father dealt with the same salesman from the mid 50’s until the salesman retired in the late 70’s. He followed this salesman around from his first car purchase from him, a Plymouth, then to Oldsmobile, then to Chevy at a couple different stores. For a while there my Father was a salesman (used the family sedan for work) and bought a car almost every two years. He also recommended this salesman to several friends, neighbors and relatives. That salesman must have really liked him.

    My father always said he liked the way Paul operated so he kept going back. Who knows, he might have even gotten some good deals. :)

    If you’re wondering why I never dealt with this guy; I wanted a Pontiac Bonneville when I bought my first new car in 66’ and this guy was selling Chevy’s at the time and I just had to have that Bonneville. ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    In this case the consumer took it to the state dealer board. I think it did ultimately wind up with an arbitrator. The dealership also had a nasty reputation at the time.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    This is another good reason for all dealers to do like carhags store does and video the transaction. You will never have a case of he said she said. It will all be documeted. This protects the consumer and the F&I guy and the only people it should bother are those doing something they don't want to get caught at.

    As long as my boss didn't tape me posting on here all the time I would be GTG :D
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Some of it may be easy - like switched paperwork. Just show them your copy. Others may be harder, like $1000 non-registered payout fee.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • master_ryumaster_ryu Member Posts: 47
    I'm curious. How does a dealer decide whether to give up a vehicle to another dealer? I'm trying to have Dealer A buy a car in a rare trim line from Dealer B so I can buy the car from Dealer A, since I was offered the better price from Dealer A.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,233
    ryu...well, it's a little like horse trading. Any dealer can request a "dealer trade". It's up to the two sides whether they'll do it or not.

    Don't know if you've been to both dealers, but if you've dealt with the dealer you want to do business with, and the dealer that has your car, the dealer that has the car you want may be reluctant to give it up.

    I'm of the mind that any dealer can meet another deaeler's offer. If you think about it, dealer B has no reason to give the car up you want to buy. They'd rather move the unit, and take the profit themselves. It's easy for dealer A to give you a better price, because they don't have what you want.

    As we all have seen, there is no deal until you drive off the dealer's lot with the car you bought from them. Anything can change up until your wheels go over the dealer's curb....that includes price.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    This is another good reason for all dealers to do like carhags store does and video the transaction. You will never have a case of he said she said. It will all be documeted. This protects the consumer and the F&I guy...

    I can understand that a video can protect the dealership when it benefits them but when it can hurt them, I think they would say, “darn it, our system was out for a few days a while back and that must have been one of those days, we’d really like to help the customer but we can’t. Maybe next time”. :D

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    If Dealer B suspects that you are playing them against Dealer A there is no way they will give the other store that car!

    And in the case of a "rare trim line", they will immediatly know what you are up to and will kill the trade.

    We can play the game too!
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    I can understand that a video can protect the dealership when it benefits them but when it can hurt them, I think they would say, “darn it, our system was out for a few days a while back and that must have been one of those days, we’d really like to help the customer but we can’t. Maybe next time”.

    jmonroe

    But youre not paranoid or anything are you?
  • mrsuzukimrsuzuki Member Posts: 58
    story, the board is slow today. Do a bunch of people have today off?
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    richard, richard, rich… I thought we learned you better than that. It really doesn’t take that long but if you are that slow of a learner, make sure you have them throw in a dinner or two the next time.

    I figured you would be chiming in on that one. Don't listen to him richard, you did great. These "wham bam thanks you mams" people believe doing the deed should only take 15-30 minutes. Take your time and enjoy the... ride, while at the same time using the time investment principle to get a great deal. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    story, the board is slow today. Do a bunch of people have today off?

    Tom, Tom, Tommy... you are a greenpea to this discussion aren't you? Your story yesterday was the first actually sales story we've had in over 3 months. That's why everybody freaked out over having an actual sales story.
    Most topics here are of football, wine, cigars and bee stings. But, it's still fun don't ya know. :shades:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I would hate to go through life thinking every one was out to get me. :D
  • sandshark222sandshark222 Member Posts: 2
    Just wanna say hi, since I'm new to the board.

    Anyhow...had a customer in not too long ago looking for a new Audi A6. He came into our store here in Ft Myers, looking for a brand new left over 2007 A6. He also said he was told that the Naples Audi store had some 2007 A6s. When I asked him why he wanted an 07 he said because he wants a cheaper price.

    I told him that we didn't have any 2007s left, but however we could sell him a 2008 for the same price as an 07. Halfway into my sentance, he walked out the door on me saying he was going to Naples.

    Little did he know that Audi has given our dealership some incentive money to use freely on vehicles of our choice, and I could have actually sold him an 08 for the same if not less money than an 07. Man, I really don't like ignorant people!
  • mrsuzukimrsuzuki Member Posts: 58
    I remember what the car business used to be in my area. I would never have time to troll forums like this one. The area I live in used to support the number of dealerships we have, but now everyone is off. I mean way off. I work for an autogroup, and our Chevrolet store used to sell 400-600 cars per month. Now its down to 150ish. Sad thing is, we still have the same market share.

    Its sad and stressful. When I first started I always averaged 18+ per month, here I sit on 3. I mean dont get me wrong, I am making some gross(used cars saves the day), but still I would rather have a smaller gross average, and more units.

    The town I live in used to be heavy in manufacturing. GM Delphi Chrysler all have or used to have plants here. Even the steel manufactures are feeling it. The county I live in is the number 1 repo and forclosure county in the state, and if I heard correctly the country.

    I dont really know where I am going with this, but it just kinda makes me sick to my stomache to think about it. I love where I live, but I just dont know how you can make it with the economy so far out of wack.
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    How did you get incentives to use as you wish? We could use some of that. All we have is aged inventory on certain 08s. We have nothing we could use on an 08 A6 to match an 07. :mad:
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    But youre not paranoid or anything are you?

    No I’m not. You and 'joel' must have me confused with ‘jipster’. ;)

    Seriously, why would a dealer use a tape that would only prove they were wrong? I know if I were the dealer I wouldn’t shoot myself with my own gun. :surprise:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    I dont really know where I am going with this, but it just kinda makes me sick to my stomache to think about it. I love where I live, but I just dont know how you can make it with the economy so far out of wack.

    I hear ya buddy... You can vent here when you have too. You won't be the first. :) even consumers vent here ;) i had a killer month back June or May but it's been tough the rest of the year. The flor being flooded doesn't help much either. :cry:
  • sandshark222sandshark222 Member Posts: 2
    We too have the aged inventory cash... but how we got the extra dealer cash is;

    We had a few service loaners that were old age that we recieved large sums of dealer cash on to help sell (in the range of 4000 each). We sold these vehicles without giving away the cash and we're applying the cash to other in-stock units. However Audi is changing the policy on that and next month we won't be able to do that again.
  • mrsuzukimrsuzuki Member Posts: 58
    The first six months of the year, I had a good gig. I worked at an only price dealer, we didn't change our prices, and we had the lowest prices around. We sometimes even had dealers come and buy or stuff, cause it was so low. I was selling 20+. They way the pay plan worked, I got paid off of volume and not gross. So it was cool. I was in the used department, and we were selling 75 per month with 3 people + Special Fi. It was great. Then the owner promoted his comptroller/accountatn to GM. Well the new GM thought he know everything, and for the most part he left us alone because we were beating everyone in town. We doubled our new car department every month. We were pulling people from all over the state. We had a professional staff good product and good prices. It worked like a well oiled machine. Then about 3 months ago, the GM decides that the UCM is making too much money.

    The GM fires the UCM, and says, "We will be fine. I can do the UCM job." Now the GM was an accountant, and never sold cars a day in his life. Needless to say, the next month, I lead the board for my seventh month in a row. Bad thing is, I did it with 8 units. So I quit.

    I came to this story with my old UCM to try and make magic happen again, but so far its not going so well.

    I love/hate this business.

    For those intersted, the store I left sold 40ish cars my last month (they flooded the floor). 60 cars the next month. Then I think 40 last month, and.......on track for 30 cars this month.
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