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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If I remember my history correctly the company that eventually became Rover (Starley & Sutton Co) originally made sewing machines.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Hmhhh I would have to go look it up. Rover's history is so confulated that could very well be true.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    They do have a very interesting history.

    Here is an early Rover.

    image

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    can a freelander make it through the course? maybe then i'll have something for you. :)
    if i went through the course in an LR3, i'd want one.
    my excuse is that my kids thought the 3rd row was too small for them.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • sc00bssc00bs Member Posts: 87
    I went to our local dodge dealership. Was looking at some Dodge Caravans and told the guy upfront I would not be buying today and was in the process of narrowing down to final model. He was fine with it.

    We walked over to a van and I looked over it. Then we started the test drive. The guy starts making jokes about kids with mental retardation and ADD. Im not finding these to be very pleasant at all. IN fact he doesn't know but my son who sits in the backseat has mild autism and other medical problems that make learning very difficult. I say nothing just trying to concentrate on the driving experience not the guys inconsiderate ramblings.

    Then during the test drive he decides to demonstrate the vans different climate zones. Most autistic children have really horrible sensory problems and heat happens to be one of my sons (the reason I take him on the test drives is because certain types of seating materials are like sticking needles into his skin, the way windows are tinted can actually hurt his eyes, etc).

    Anyway, the guy turns the heater all the way up for where my son is sitting. My son gets upset and asks the guy 3 times to turn the air conditioner on, its about 100 degrees outside. Im trying to drive and can't find the controls. After my son has a meltdown the guy turns the ac back on. Makng some rude comment about my son "having a cow".

    After the drive I ask him what their asking price is to which (of course) he doesn't know. So I walk to the showroom and some lady gives my son and daughter a ballon. The salesman walks up and pops my son's ballon for no reason. Then starts making fun of my son to his face.

    That was it, I started to walk out and the guy is running after me asking me what he did wrong. I stop to tell him how unprofessional he has been. The guy leans up against something and lowers himself. My son walks up and scoops up a big handful of confetti and dumps it down the salesmens shirt.

    My son has NEVER done such a thing in his life, through so many people making fun of him and doing nasty things to him. I just thought it was great!!!! I thought, well salesmen you rag on my 8 year old son with a neurological problem you deserved that. This was a 5 star dealership too.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "You would be surprised at the number of times I negotiated prices lower than my research suggested."

    Then what gives you the basis of negotiating this lower price?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Then what gives you the basis of negotiating this lower price?

    The fact that at these times I got the salesman to name a price first. A price that was low enough to know I could get them to get below my researched price.

    There are certain things that will influence a price that your research will never tell you. Just look at what British Rover wrote about the Supercharged Range Rover Sports going at a discount. You never know when that salesman needs to make a deal.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yup that is true. Since I have sold all of my new cars at full MSRP this month I would probably offer up a little bit of a discount even on a Supercharged Sport. You aren't getting anywhere near invoice though.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Next time the salesman comes with you on a test drive, tell him to be absolutely quiet. He can give a spiel before getting in the car, but once inside he is not allowed to speak.

    If he says one word, drive back to the dealer and insist on a new salesman.

    From our experience, it makes the test drive much more enjoyable.
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    I'd love to see a video of that technique in action.
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Deserth8r... I don't understand you. You don't have to have a relationship with your salesperson. You don't have to trust or respect them. It's not a bad thing.

    You are spending your hard earned money and you have a right to question every step of the process. You shouldn't worry if they "like" you are not. It's your money, protect it!

    I'm not saying that you should be rude to your salesperson. But respect and trust are not prerequisites to making a purchase. If you find that you do respect and trust your salesperson, that's great!

    Personally, I have had nice dealings with my most recent purchase.. a Land Rover LR3. I knew how much I wanted for my trade and how much I was willing to pay for the new LR. After a little negotiating, we agreed on a price and it was a done deal. I didn't want my salesman to be my friend. I didn't even care if he respected me or not. I was not there to win him over. I was just buying a vehicle.

    Mark156
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • cluedweaselcluedweasel Member Posts: 150
    Here's the one my best friends dad owned when I was a kid (a long time ago in a galaxy far away). Not quite as old as your one but almost!

    image
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    sc00bs:
    The minute that salesman started making smart remarks about mentally handicapped kids...you should have IMMEDIATLY turned that van around, went back to the dealership, told the GM or whomever and walked out of that place. It's a good thing it wasn't me driving that van.
    Nortsr1
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    Every time I see one of those Commander commercials where they say, "The Jeep Commander the most capable Seven passenger SUV ever," I just laugh. The approach and departure angles on the Commander are horrible. A Disco would stomp a Commander offroad and a LR3 would just embarrass that trail rated badge right off the back liftgate.
    What percentage do you think are driven off a paved road in their first few years of ownership?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    What percentage do you think are driven off a paved road in their first few years of ownership?

    I would say more than it would be for a Land Rover, still real small though.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • deserth8rdeserth8r Member Posts: 45
    Mark...let me tell you a little story, sorry for the length. When I was in Iraq in 2003, We had 2 different Iraqis that came on post to sell us things each week. One charged a little more than the other, but he was used more often as he did better work, and we felt he was more trustworthy. It turned out that the one we didnt trust so much was for a valid reason, he was coming on post to gather information to use in attacks against the base, BTW, he came to an unfortunate end. Was it worth it for us to pay more for services from someone we trusted, definately.

    I understand that buying a car, or anything is different than this situation, but it had enough of an impact on me for me to choose to only do business with people I felt I could trust. That being said, I still haggle for the best price, but since at this time, I only buy Ford products, it is easy for me to establish a relationship with a dealership. Now, does it cost me a few hunderud dollars for this each time I buy a car, yes. But I do not buy cars often enough for this to bother me. That is just my 2 cents
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    About 20% of Land Rovers are taking off-road by their owners on a regular basis. For most SUVs the percentage is five or less. I don't know with the percentage of jeeps in particular is although I imagine it is probably close to the rover percentage depending on the model.

    Land Rover dealers are required to sponsor off-road driving events at least twice a year and two non-off-road events, these basicly turn into cocktail parties at the dealership or some other location, we have proffesional driving instructors come out and then the staff acts as spoters/instructors as well.

    Our last off road event was great we had it at http://www.overlandexperts.com/. We rented out the facility for the day and about thirty people there in many different rovers. Everything from a 1995 Series one disco that was one guys off-road toy with lots of mods, a 1997 Defender with almost no miles and two ARB air locking diffs and then a bunch of stock Discos and LR3s plus some bone stock Range Rovers.

    One of the guys there brought his whole family in the LR3 they bought just two months before. He had about 1,500 miles on it. The highest mileage truck there was a 1998 Range Rover 4.0SE with about 110,000 miles on it.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah a Freelander can make it through you just have to be more careful. You have to follow a certain line with the Freelander or you will get stuck.

    The progression of vehicles from easiest to hardest kind of goes like this.

    LR3 is the easiest rover to take across the course. You can choose just about any line you want and you will be fine. In low range with terrain response set to rock crawl I could do the course blindfolded just by feel and memory.

    The Range Rover is almost as easy as the LR3 and when Terrain response is avaliable for 2007 the Range Rover will once again by completly domminant over the LR3/Disco. The Range Rover has so much ground clearance you don't even need to raise the air suspension to off-road mode.
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Cluedweasel.. what year and brand is that car in the picture? It's nice looking!

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    About 20% of Land Rovers are taking off-road by their owners on a regular basis. For most SUVs the percentage is five or less. I don't know with the percentage of jeeps in particular is although I imagine it is probably close to the rover percentage depending on the model.

    Land Rover dealers are required to sponsor off-road driving events at least twice a year and two non-off-road events, these basicly turn into cocktail parties at the dealership or some other location, we have proffesional driving instructors come out and then the staff acts as spoters/instructors as well.

    Our last off road event was great we had it at http://www.overlandexperts.com/. We rented out the facility for the day and about thirty people there in many different rovers. Everything from a 1995 Series one disco that was one guys off-road toy with lots of mods, a 1997 Defender with almost no miles and two ARB air locking diffs and then a bunch of stock Discos and LR3s plus some bone stock Range Rovers.


    I see - so you've only sold 150 Land Rovers in the last five years? Where do you get the information supporting 20% offroad use in the US? I'd suspect it's less than 5% like everyone else. Dirt roads are not off road.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Outside of TV I have never seen a Land Rover off road with the exception of those that were not supposed to be off road (FWIW I see a lot of SUV's like that after winter storms). I would say that trucks are the ones I see off road most.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    snake....it won't affect my offer one iota whether the dealer makes the first offer, or I do. My offer will be the same.

    For simplicity's sake, let's say that the dealership makes the initial offer of $29K for that $30K MSRP car they've got. I've already determined that the price I'll buy at is $27K, plus I want the floor mats thrown in. Using a "bobst" hybrid method, I'd probably walk after thanking them for their time. This is predicated on my telling the dealership I'm in the market right now and will only make one offer.

    If I go in and make the only offer of $27K, plus floormats, they say yes or no (usually try to bump me, but I always remind them that I'm only going to make one offer).

    So, whether they make the first offer, or I do, my number (offer) doesn't change.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    snake....it won't affect my offer one iota whether the dealer makes the first offer, or I do. My offer will be the same.

    It would affect mine. For example the last car I negotiated on we figured a certain price after all our research. The salesman offered something in the area of a few hundred more than that price we determined. This of course was a signal to come down on the price we would eventually offer. Of course during a brief negotiation we got them down several hundred off of what we were willing to do.

    Simply said if we would have gone in and said, "here is our price" we would have paid much more.

    This is predicated on my telling the dealership I'm in the market right now and will only make one offer.

    No one said make one offer, this is negotiation remember.

    So, whether they make the first offer, or I do, my number (offer) doesn't change.

    Mine might (almost always down), just depends on the situation.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jpvwaudijpvwaudi Member Posts: 139
    and wants some info on a Passat. I bring him over to my desk to qualify him. Find out he wants a package 1 automatic, but what he really wants is a price. How much, how much, how much.....I usually won't go into price until I can land him on car, but it was almost 100 outside , so I figured what the heck. He only wants white or black, so I look at my inventory sheet, pull a stock number and run a lease for him; I don't leave my desk the whole time ( I have the programs on my desktop) yet he is chatting away the whole time on his cell phone. Now mind you, he isn't on the phone trying to find a spare kidney for an old widow or a home for a one-eyed chihuahua, he's trying to decide between the Olive Garden and The Outback Steakhouse.

    He's happy with the numbers, so he wants to drive the car. I pull the keys and we walk outside (still on the phone) I start the car, turn the air on and get ready to go on a demo drive. I wait.....and wait.......still on the phone. After about 2 minutes, I shut the car off, close the trunk and windows and walk inside. I tell my GSM whats going on and he gives me carte blanc; so I decide to block his car in customer parking with a used car and take a walk. 20 minutes later the guy walks in ranting and raving about our horrible parking situation and the fact the his salesman "abandoned him on the lot." My GSM tells him to order the Blooming Onion and have a nice day. The porter took his time in moving the car blocking his and he was on his way.

    The moral of the story, you treat me like a car salesman, and I'll treat you like "a car salesman" would treat you. I gotta tell you; it was really enjoyable. About 6 of us watched him lose it while the porter "tried to find the keys." As some in our profession say, sometimes, you'll have that.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,281
    ...it had enough of an impact on me for me to choose to only do business with people I felt I could trust.

    I never would have thought of it before reading this forum, but you can always sit the salesperson down and make them have a few beers with you, in order to build rapport and trust... :)
  • deserth8rdeserth8r Member Posts: 45
    believe me, I could use a few beers right about now too...
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Most salesmen here seem to have a much higher tolerance for abuse than you...pretty much have to be bludgeoned with a hammer to give up on a deal. :sick:

    Can't say I blame ya walking away, with that heat the way it was.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Bob,

    In almost eleven years I have never had a customer tell me that. If a customer were to ever tell me that, I would comply with his wishes but I would have absoultly no desire whatever to sell him a car.

    And he would know that immediatly. NOBODY should be that rude to say that to anybody!

    Now, I watch my customers and I listen to them. I tailor my conversation to them. If they are silent, so am I. If they are friendly and talkative (as most are)I can be chatty but not overally so.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I agree. What an unprofessional idiot!
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I can't condone it................but I can't honestly say I wouldn't have taken pleasure from doing the same.

    However, I won't even try to hold a conversation with someone who's on the phone to someone else. Either give me all of your attention or none of it!
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    LOL, good one, you were way too nice to the idiot on the cell phone. Can we post stories about rude people on cell phones? My favorite is the time the wife and I were at the movies and the lady sitting in front of us takes a call during the movie and starts talking WITH THE SPEAKER ON.

    Sorry for going off topic, I'm done.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Isell, which president could not walk down the street and chew gum at the same time?

    I am like that. I can only concentrate on one thing at a time and I get distracted easily.

    Before we buy a car, I read about the car in Edmunds and make a list of the most common problems that people mention. When we go for a test drive, we make sure the car does not have those problems and we try to be aware of any other problems.

    If the sales person says anything, it throws off my concentration and might cause us to miss something. Therefore, the sales person must stay absolutely quiet.

    Oh yeah, it was Gerald Ford. At least that's what people used to say.
  • billingsleybillingsley Member Posts: 69
    The picture resembles a Rover sedan out of the 60's. Am I right?

    :confuse:
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    It's a Rover (P6) 3500 which ran from the late 60's to the mid 70's. The only thing it had in common to Land Rovers is the alloy 3.5 V8 engine, which originated from Buick.

    I've never seen the export version before, and I can't say I'm enamored by the hood scoops, but it was a pretty advanced car at the time, both in construction and appearance..........fast too, with good acceleration and a 120mph top speed.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't care, bobst. That would still be very rude thing to say and do.
  • cluedweaselcluedweasel Member Posts: 150
    Yep, it's a Rover P6 from 1972. Would probably be worth a few bob if it was still around. Alas Rover is no more but Land Rover lives on just down the road!
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    " I don't care, bobst. That would still be very rude thing to say and do. "

    Again, it doepends on how it's said. Nothing wrong with politely asking a salesman not to talk during the test drive so you can concentrate on certain issues with the vehicle.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Yeah, that's how I do it.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    snake....both ways work. After I throw my number out there, and if the sales person comes back with a number that's well off my number, I know we are both wasting out time.

    If the sales person throws out the first number, and it's several hundred (or more) off my researched number, the same result. I thank them for the time and we part ways.

    Just as an FYI, unless I tell the dealership I've been peaking at numbers here and elsewhere, or that I've been perusing numbers in the newspaper, they've rarely made an initial offer even close to the number I've researched. They usually come out of the shoot with a number way high until I divulge the fact that I've been shopping a little.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    I forget who it was, but a sales person had a story that said they did exactly that.....had a few beers over a negotiation session.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I know both ways work, just my contention was that in a negotiation the one who mentions price first is at a disadvantage. Say a dealer is willing to sell a buyota Benz Sludgemobile for $22,500 and you walk in and say I will buy this for $23,000 you just sealed the deal at $23,000 and will never get that $22,500. Sometimes you just have to dig deeper into the cereal box to get that prize.

    If the sales person throws out the first number, and it's several hundred (or more) off my researched number, the same result. I thank them for the time and we part ways.

    Thats where I start negotiating the price to get them to come to, or under my price. If I can do that then its usually faster than driving to the next Buyota Benz dealer. Even if they come in at or under my researched price I will haggle.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Folks, let's PLEASE reserve this discussion for sales stories. We've got "buying tips" and "purchasing strategies" for the rest of the conversation. Thanks!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Sorry for getting off topic.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    Yeah...what snake said.....sorry!

    I think the story about the sheetrock guy getting a big injury settlement kind of threw us for a loop (BTW....I've heard that same story in more than one place, from more than one person...).
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    It's OK... (( Giant group hug ))

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • bryanbryan Member Posts: 198
    Never? Well, maybe hardly ever :shades: I asked for a 25% on the spot "discount" for a piece of expensive clothing at Macy's a few years ago. This particular garment had been on the selling floor for about one day. I asked the salesperson; she asked her manager and I purchased the garment at the discounted price I asked for.
  • toyotamovertoyotamover Member Posts: 19
    Here's the scenario...

    Customer walks in and you can tell within 5 minutes of qualifying that you will probably sell them a car. The problem is this is one of those customers that are very analytical, very picky (the type that will complain over the very smallest details of the car or the deal), over researched etc... You know you will sell them but won't make much more than a mini, nothing in F&I and that you will probably be living with them before and after the sale. If you been in the biz for a while you know what I am talking about. The customer that will take hours and hours of your time for little reward compared to the full lister that that you spend an hour with and they bring you home baked cookies the next day as a thank you.

    Do you go for the deal or do you back off and let them walk maybe purposely quoting them a high price or just not trying?

    Curious about this... I've gone back and forth with this question in my 15 years working at a high volume Toyota dealership. You want every deal but what's the limit. My answer is that I will sell them if I really really need the deal (EOM for a bonus etc...) Otherwise I cut bait and look for something better that won't end up costing me money in the long run by being off the floor.
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Member Posts: 365
    Every time I see one of those Commander commercials where they say, "The Jeep Commander the most capable Seven passenger SUV ever," I just laugh. The approach and departure angles on the Commander are horrible. A Disco would stomp a Commander offroad and a LR3 would just embarrass that trail rated badge right off the back liftgate.

    At the auto show, there was a torture track set up that a bunch of different Jeep models went around. It looked like the Commander did a fine job, but I'm sure would not hold up to the Range rover track.
  • tamarastertamaraster Member Posts: 107
    What I don't get about the rovers is, if they are supposed to be good for off-roading, safaris, and that type of thing, why are they so trouble-prone? It seems like it would be really inconvenient to be stuck in the wilderness with a broken vehicle that's fussy and difficult to repair.

    Or am I just mistaken about that?
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Member Posts: 458
    If everyone stopped buying cars right now and waited until their CURRENT car was paid off: most dealers would file backruptcy, the state and local gov'ts would not get anywhere NEAR the revenue they normally acheive and by the time they normalized they will have raised all other taxes to compensate.

    Sheesh.... Are we sensing some ATTITUDE?

    You are right in your analysis, of course.
This discussion has been closed.