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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Apples and Oranges. The only way to know that your offer really is too low for that dealership is to walk away. That's the only signal you can send that your offer is fixed. If you stick around then they assume they can still sell you the vehicle and your offer will come up. That you haven't left means you are still interested in the vehicle.
Buying the identical vehicle at a second dealership has no bearing on what you can get it for at the first. Dealerships have different cost structures and different overheads so one may be able to consistently sell for less than others.
This is the primary critique of the bobst method by the sales folks here. He offers X at dealer A. They let him walk. He goes to dealer B and offer X+100. Dealer B sells him the car. The sales guys say he should give dealer A the chance to sell at X+100.
If you got to three or four dealers in a metro area and they all reject your price then it is truly too low.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Seems all very Sun Tzu to me. He knows himself and his enemy. He knows his weakness is negotiation so he eliminates that from the field of battle.
The sales complaint against him seems based on the idea that the very first dealer in the "bobst chain" may be investing time in presentation and a test drive, but being the first has virtually no chance at all to sell the car to bobst since he has to start low and work his way up dealer by dealer.
That wouldn't work in this neck of the woods. We have around 5 main dealerships and then nothing for 150 miles. It makes the local guys think they can charge top dollar for anything and you'd be amazed how often they'll get away with it.
In 2003 we offered about $200 over invoice for an Acura RSX. They declined, we left, and the sales manager came out to the parking lot and said they would take our offer.
The same thing happened when we bought our 2005 Accord last year. We offered about $500 under invoice, they did not accept, we left and started to get in our car, and the salesman came out and told us they would take our offer.
You know, the prices of cars these days is amazing. We bought our 1999 Accord for $20300 OTD and bought the 2005 for $20800 OTD. The cars are both 4-cyl 5-sp manual EX models with the same options. However, the 2005 model is much nicer.
That's a $500 increase over 6 years, which is less than one half of 1% increase per year. That is much less than inflation. Amazing!
I was blown away. I went back and, over his animated protestations, gave the guy responsible $10 and told him I thought it only fair that we at least split it. He could have (as many would have) put the twenty bucks in his pocket and no one, least of all me, would have ever known the difference.
Every now and then something happens to restore one's faith in humanity.
Um, back to your regularly-scheduled topic now.
Pat-not-the-host-here
i try to believe people are basically good.
(maybe not... who knows)
So the Dealership is remodeling itself and I am always on the hunt for new customers. I talk to several of the contruction workers about maybe puchasing a new truck. No bites for a while until I run into a guy on stilts (doing ceiling tile work) I literally knock him over and catch him as he is falling (rounded a corner and crashed into him)
So he is in the market and his credit is poor but... he is receiveing a settlement in 6 months and has a very good understanding about dealership operations. He tells me to find him a nice used truck and arrange financing and make AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE!
So I present several trucks to him and none are acceptable. I was beginning to think this was not a match make in heaven until we had a VERY nice late model come in. I immediately call him and ask him to come back to the used car department (he was in the building after all) He inspects the vehicle and it is exactly what he wants!
Then the financing process begins and he did not lie. Very significant issues. However, we were able to explain the credit issues to the lender (including the significant improvement that was about to happen) and we were able to get his loan approved. As I prepared all of the misc. paperwork for him he tells me point blank "I want you to make as much money as you can... whatever is maximum without breaking the law!"
Profit making is not illegal and I explain to him that there is not exactly a maximum but that there certainly would be some point that would raise an eyebrow or two. I continued gathering all of the pertinant info and sent him into the finance office.
The Finance manager sold him every product available and charged the set amount according to dealership guidelines. The price was set by the sales manager and was above NADA Retail but only by a little. I was surpised that the dealer didn't take massive advantage based upon the customers request and apparently so was HE. He was visible unhappy that we did not make more. (WOW) So here is what he DID...
He paid me 1,500.00 personally after the deal was finalized (with the owners permission) and also donated 10,000.00 directly to the dealership.
He had suffered a back injury in a work related injury and received 2.5 mil as a result (he was knocked off of a building directly attributed to neglect and almost died)
The Anonymous Dealer
Plus,with a 2.5 mil payday coming up... he is buying a "used" truck, instead of new? Then gives you $1,500 and donates 10 grand to the dealership. I didn't know dealeships were registered charitable organizations. Though they sure try to get me to "contribute" everytime I purchase a car. Sounds as if the guy is mentally disturbed to me...must have fallen on his head.
I don't think a book descibing the frugal habits of self-made millionaires has any bearing on the behavior of nouveau riche settlement and/or lottery winners.
Thats usually a good ideal, the problem with many people who fall into money (be it a settlement, lottery or whatever) tend to blow right through it. You would be surprised to know how many lottery winners have nothing after the last payment. So it is wise not to go out spending when you get these big windfalls, but to sit back relax and get a good financial strategy.
What I don't get is someone being frugal enough to buy used but then tell the dealership to make as much money off of you as possible. Then on top of that give the salesman and dealership more money? Something just doesn't sit right with that story.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
For example I had someone who just won a fairly big lottery pot and wanted a Supercharged Range Rover. Well the problem is there are not lots of them around and most are pre-sold. We cannot even order one every month so once they had decided what colors they wanted it was going to take six months for it to come in.
They never finalized the deal because they just had to have some big huge SUV right now. I think they ended up buying an Escalade.
Yep just what I said they go out and start spending money like a drunken sailor. First thing any lottery winner should do is take a few days off and go fishing. This allows for the event to sink in and more rational thoughts to take over.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My wife and I fantasize about winning the lottery and what we'd do. We'd pay off relatives student loans, mortgages etc. But I've wrestled with car buying. My habit is to buy and keep. With big winnings I could get a stable of cars and buy whatever struck my fancy, but would I? I don't think so, but I don't know. Same with buying computers. Right now I build my own. Would I still do that when I could afford to buy a new $7000 Voodoo every month?
Now if you win big remember we are close relations, if I win I never heard of you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I thought you and "cluedweasel" were the close relations? :P
Next, he has bad credit, which is usually an indicator of no cash either (until payday), and his settlement won't be here for six months. However, he's able to slap down a $1.5K tip to the salesman and a donation of $10K to the dealership.
Finally, while I wouldn't do it myself, I can understand someone coming into a windfall wanting to just march into a showroom and say "I want the best you've got and I don't care what it costs!". What I can't get my head around is someone buying a used vehicle on credit, saying "Charge me more than it's worth!" and then 'donating' an extra $11.5K which would surely have otherwise got him into a new vehicle.
This was an interesting case and WILL probably offend non dealers.....
No, it doesn't offend me, it just doesn't make much sense.
Well, the guy fell on his head and bounced and hit it again!
But that being said, there is no such thing as a donation. That dealership has to show that 10K on their books SOMEWHERE. As far as the 1,500.00 is concerned, by law he needs to fill out a 1099 with the information asked for on the form.
This reminds me of the case in Idaho (I think) where the old guy goes in with an almost new car with a bad battery, and the salesmen sold him a Focus. Remember that one? This one smells like that too!
Actually the dealer would take care of that on their tax forms.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Obviously with the circumstances we obtained all of the court documents to validate his statements and also needed them for the lender.
As far as the "Donation" and when he "tipped" me: It is all semantics and I probably should have chosen my words more carefully. He paid us once he received his settlement. And a "donation" is a donation... I don't remember typing "charitable donation" The money was applied to cost of sale in the used car department.
As far as the vehicle he purchased... It is what he wanted! Car/Truck buying is also an emotional and personal choice. He wanted what he wanted... are you any different?
And for what it is worth I did file the $1500.00 on my taxes and wrote down how I received it. Didn't list it as a 1099 though and was never contacted about it. Whether I put it in the right place or not the IRS seemed to take my tax money so I don't anticipate being indicted anytime soon!
Glad to see I found one for everyone to dissect though!
I guess the circumstance could never ever possibly be that he had more money than he had ever had in his life and HE REALLY wanted to do something extravagant for the people who treated him well long before any of us knew he had money coming in!
Sounds more like a couple of people in here might have forgotten about compassion!
Now, dwilliam approaches him about a new vehicle. He hasn't gotten his "settlement" yet, so the dealership works out the loan for him. To keep the dealership from asking questions about why he was up on stilts putting up ceiling tiles when he has such a horrible back injury...he makes a generous donation to the parties involved...who apparently didn't question why some guy who falls out of a window(head/back injury) is working on stilts and wants to give them ten thousand dollars on top of paying MSRP and buying all the mop-n-glow available.
Either way, this was highly suspicious activity and should have been investigated before a sale was made.
BTW if you did enter it seperatly on your 1040 check your W2 to make sure it wasn't reported there too. If it was you may have overpaid on your taxes and should file a 1040X.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This sale occured 8 years ago and he bought another 3 vehicles from the dealership (CASH... and his credit is now spotless)
He was pushed out of the window by a loader. I don't understand why a "working" man rates so low in your book and why you assume automatically that he injured himself.
Snake... I didn't do it exactly correctly as my dealer stayed completely out of it from a payroll standpoint and the customer did not fill out a 1099. In the end I just did the right thing by reporting the income on my taxes.
The Anonymous Dealer
Oh there is a trade, not there at the moment. We we ask what it is and he tells us that it's a small mid-trim 2WD vehicle. Sight unseen we offer a price and he says 'Yep that's fair'.
We add the aftermarket items and get it prepped and the buyer comes in with his trade and completes all the paperwork. He loves the way the leather was added and says his wife will be very pleased.
So fair this is normal everyday business.
An hour or two later he calls back and says.'My wife lost her $10,000 diamond egagement ring and she thinks it's in the trade-in. Please check.'
I do and other than a baby juice cup, french fries, a couple of pennies and crayons there is no ring. After work he comes by, at his wife's insistence I'm certain, and says can he go over the trade also? We get it and search in every nook and cranny. Nothing. He is running his hand under the front passenger seat and the seat rails. Nothing. I pull off the cap on the back of the driver's seat rails. BINGO !!! $10,000 diamond ring!!!
'Were you looking for this ring?'
'Holy ______!'
He is very, very happy. An hour later his wife calls and thanks me very very very much. End of story.
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The trade wasn't a 2WD mid-trim SUV, it was a 4WD top-trim SUV.
No they didn't do it correctly, you did.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have to say this:
I can see Malfunctioning Eddy exploding in the background after he said this.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm sure you and your dealerships are nice guys that worked hard for this man, but the normal way to give gratitude would be to pay MSRP, not give 10 grand to the dealership and $1,500 to the salesperson.
I don't know...maybe if someone came up and offered me 10 grand for nothing in particular, I would want to assume the guy was just a nice fellow. 2.5 mil just doesn't go as far as it use to though.
Yeah but it still goes a long, long way.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Depends on how one spends it. Gambling, drugs, women...salesmen. Could be gone before you know it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
way back when, i used to work in a liquor store. in the summer we used to prop the all glass front door open to get some air.
one slow evening, still light out, a police cruiser quickly pulls up to the curb in front facing the wrong way.
the officer gets out leaving the cruiser door open. (no it did not get stolen).
he looks a bit nervous and asks us, 'are you guys ok?'. we say 'yeah'. he says 'are you sure?' we say 'yeah, why do you ask?'. he says 'your silent alarm is going off'. (we had recently got one.) for obvious reasons the other guy and i didn't hear it.
we decide to check out the back just to be sure. there were 2 rooms. one was a large store room. the other was smaller and you had to pass through the office which had the one way glass in it that you could see out of, but not see in.
i took the small storeroom through the office, the other guy and officer took the large room.
i checked out the smallroom and the back door. everything was a-ok and i head back toward the front of the store. when i get to the office with the one way glass, i see a head the take a quick peek from a corner of one of the windows in front a couple of times, so i stop where i am.
next thing, another officer is trying to sneak into the store with his gun in a ready position. too bad when he gets through the door he trips the electric eye, which signals someone going through the door.
the other guy i work with hears it, thinks it's a customer and comes running toward the front. i yell at him to stop.
we have first officer assure the second one that everything is ok, before we go into the front of the store.
offcer number 2 says, 'i drive up on the scene, i see the cruiser sitting in front of the store with the door open. i look in and don't see anyone. i'm thinking something bad is going on here'.
I'll leave it at that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D