Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    oldfarmer50,

    Your absolutely right you do get majority of your business from referrals. All I'm saying is that particular customer was already excited. Besides its all a matter or perception. I have been selling cars a little over 6 years now. I stay in close contact with numerous of customers that send me referrals. My top 20 customers that frequently send me referrals were the ones that paid all the money for the car that they bought. Seems to me that the ones that pay are the happiest customers. The ones that try to mooch every penny are never happy and always feel like they got ripped off or something. I'm not saying I treat each customer differently. I treat them all the same.

    Mr. Wang or Mr. Patel for the most part are never loyal customers. They will go the the guy that will save them an extra penny.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Indeed.

    What are you selling?

    -moo
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,362
    "...Seems to me that the ones that pay are the happiest customers..."

    Isellhondas is that you? ;)

    Believe me I understand exactly what you are saying. I have as many as 500 "ups" a week during my season. What you say is true. The most pleasant customers don't mind paying your listed price. Others, well, let's just say if you were giving it away free they'd want change back. They make selling anything difficult.

    I don't know if my way maximizes profit but I take special care of my "pleasant" customers. If they try to buy a product which is not suited to their needs I'll set them right even if it means I don't make as much. The way I figure it, I'll make it up the next 10 times they buy from me.

    I've seen some "slash and burn" vendors where I sell. They like to brag about how much they made today. Funny thing is a short time later they are gone and I'm still there.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    >>Mr. Wang or Mr. Patel for the most part are never loyal customers. They will go the the guy that will save them an extra penny. <<

    Racial and ethnic stereotype?
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Yes, it's a stereotype. One that won't be denied by the races in question. My wife is Chinese and we laugh about how different races do business.

    Nothing sinister or horrible about it. It's just a comment about what happens in negotiations.

    And yes, we laugh about Asian drivers as well.

    Get off the sensitivity training.

    -moo
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    "Shirley, you jest"

    i'm always serious, and don't call me Shirley
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    Mr. Wang or Mr. Patel

    There is nothing like the old fashion stereotypes.

    The reason you don&#146;t like Mr. Wang or Mr. Patel is because they are good at your game and they buy cars at &#147;market prices&#148;. Yes, the lowest price that you are willing to sell the car for is the &#147;market price&#148;, because I am sure you are not that stupid to sell a car for less than the market value.

    Now, let&#146;s talk about &#147;Fools&#148; who pay full pop for a car. Yes, they are fools, because they are wasting money by paying more than they should; the money that they can use to buy something else for themselves and their families. The reason they are happy, is because they are too ignorant to realize that they were taken advantage of. Yes, they are taken advantage of, because you use your sales &#147;skills&#148; to get them to pay more than they should.
  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    I did not mean any thing racial about it. If you sell cars or sell anything in general you would know what I mean.

    Like I said before I treat every customer the same way. I sell Honda In Los Angeles California. There are Honda dealers everywhere. Down here you could loose a customer over 20 dollars. This is why I treat everybody the same way all the time with out fail. Some pay all the money but most don't. If I have to whore out a car I will. I do what ever it takes to get a sale out. I'm just make what you can when you can.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I doubt you'd be happy if someone kept putting words in your mouth.

    I haven't liked dealing with certain customers in the past because they aren't loyal. They lie to you and lead you on. Would you like it if your salesman did the same to you? Well, I never like it when my customer did the same to me.

    As far as "Fools" go.... People spend money on whatever they want. That's the beauty of the United States. It's your right to spend as much or as little as you can.

    Ignorance is bliss. I've read a number of your posts. As enlightened as you are, you seem to be a little unhappy. I'd rather overpay and be joyful than save some money and be a grump.

    -moo
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Now, let&#146;s talk about &#147;Fools&#148; who pay full pop for a car. Yes, they are fools, because they are wasting money by paying more than they should; the money that they can use to buy something else for themselves and their families. The reason they are happy, is because they are too ignorant to realize that they were taken advantage of. Yes, they are taken advantage of, because you use your sales &#147;skills&#148; to get them to pay more than they should.

    Everbody has a opinion :surprise:

    You remind me ofa fellow that i have to work with. The other day he came over to a group of us talking and passing time. He came over to ask for $5. Now I don't care for this person because he is aggravating. I gave him the $5 to go away. I probably won't see that money back. I could've just walked away. But I felt better paying or wasting the $5 to get the annoying person away from me :shades:

    GP
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Now, let&#146;s talk about &#147;Fools&#148; who pay full pop for a car. Yes, they are fools, because they are wasting money by paying more than they should; the money that they can use to buy something else for themselves and their families. The reason they are happy, is because they are too ignorant to realize that they were taken advantage of. Yes, they are taken advantage of, because you use your sales &#147;skills&#148; to get them to pay more than they should.

    But you are a better person because you call them fools who are ignorant????

    I am surprised you brought this crap up, you have already participated in the 947 different discussions we have had in the last year as to weather or not paying the MSRP should be considered getting ripped off.
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    People who pay MSRP are not fools- they are saints. :D
  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    Exbo,

    Do u even sell cars? What do you do to feed your family? Do you work a regular 9-5 job?

    I sell cars for living. This is the path that I chose. You sound like you don't like sales people.

    MSRP is what the factory have set to be fair. I don't sell above that. Charging MSRP is not ripping people off.

    If your good at what you do and you build enough value on your product and customer saw that value they don't have a problem paying for it. You don't have cheat or lie to be good at what you do and make some money for you family.

    If you paid full price at the groceries store or at a clothing store do consider that a rip off too? Those types of business have a bigger profit margin. But you don't have problem paying them.
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    Yes, Joel, you are right I should not have started that argument again.

    However, Shirley has made a racial and derogatory remark towards the Chinese and Indian people, and it robed me the wrong way. Just because she doesn&#146;t make as much money as she wants to off them, it doesn&#146;t give her the right to slam them as group in a public forum.

    For the record, I am not Chinese or Indian.
  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    You sound like you don't like sales people.

    Is there something wrong with that? :P I am just kidding of course.

    You sound like you don&#146;t like Chinese and Indian people, but think there is nothing wrong with that. Do you see my point?
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    As I mentioned, my wife is Chinese and recognizes the differences in CULTURE. We're not saying these are bad people. We're saying they operate in different ways that may or may not be to our liking.

    Your "outrage" is pretty disingenous. Get over yourself.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I actually had Mr. Patel at my dealership today. We have a bunch of Patels in this city and they buy lots of cars from us at market price.

    They are loyal if you treat them right, not saying that Shirley didn't. Sometimes it can be just a gesture or something they misunderstood that will sway them to another salesperson.
    I showed a Highlander to Mr. and Mrs. Patel this afternoon. They have been looking at different makes all day. Mercedes, Lexus, Honda, and Toyota. They currently drive a Mercedes.
    He liked the Highlander more than his wife did. She prefers something smaller and more manuverable. So when we got back from the test drive we looked at a Camry, Corolla, and Prius. Didn't drive any of those just had lots of questions. Funny thing is when we got back from the test drive I went for the close and asked If they were ready to take one home. He asked if we had any good deals on Highlanders. "If you're ready to buy, I'll make sure you get a good deal." I replied and he smiled and said they were not ready and had to narrow it down to which car they were going to buy.

    Surprisingly he never asked about price or negotiate on the lot which a lot of Patels tend to do. I stay away from negotiating on the lot as it's not fair to the customer or to me. They left and he thanked me for my time. I do appreciate when a prospect says that to me. They show appreciation even though they didn't buy yet.
    :shades:
  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    I never meant anything racial about that comment. I don't have a problem with Chinese or Indian people. I don't treat them any different when they show up to our dealership. I treat everybody like a potential buyer. I cant say the same for every other sales person out there. Majority of the sales people turn the other way and pretend they don't see t Chinese or Indian customers wondering around the dealership. If you ever sold cars you would know what I mean.

    Here is comment that most sales people here in Los Angeles use.

    &#147;Mr. Patel no matter what I say you are going to get ridiculous on the price. How about we go inside and get ridiculous 1st, then we can test drive the car.&#148;

    I don't use this line with anybody.
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    People who pay MSRP are not fools- they are saints

    I sell cars and have dome so for the last 10 years. I am an average salesman. I make a fair living. I negotiate for a living. I bought a used motorcyle two years ago.I went to a dealer that I had done business with in the past and narrowed my field down to 2 different machines. Now I take my motorcycles very seriously. i ride almost 20k per year. I own a motorcycle thats worth 5X the POS car I drive every day. Thats where my priorities are. When I went to buy my bike, I picked out 2 machines I liked and went to the dealership.
    I had called ahead and verified that both machines were in stock and available to be test driven. I went in, rode both bikes and made my choice of what I wanted to own. I left, went home and called the owner. I told him my choice and said i will take it please be kind on the pricing. In the end I got a substantial discount. Could I have got more money off? Probably. I chose to trust them because thats how i am and have always received perfect service from these guys
    I left and was happy with my purchase. And I still am.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    It is amazing how many people are happy with there purchase until they log on to a site like this and go to the "Prices I would have liked to payed" forum, or talk to their neighbor who tells them that their brothers, uncles cousins baby sitter bought one for $1000 less then all of the sudden it is a terrible deal. :confuse: The neighbor fails to mention the baby sitter bought a SE and you got a SEL, but hey whats the difference
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    It is amazing how many people are happy with there purchase until they log on to a site like this and go to the "Prices I would have liked to payed" forum

    Life is way too short to worry about what my brothers girlfriends aunt paid for the same machine. I get on my bike ride it and smile everytime!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Charging MSRP is not ripping people off.

    Would you say that if you paid MSRP for a car that everyone was buying for $2,500 below MSRP? Lets face it few things in this world are sold at MSRP.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • toyota2lexustoyota2lexus Member Posts: 13
    that walks into the showroom and loudly proclaims

    "WHO WANTS TO SELL A CAR TODAY"
  • toyota2lexustoyota2lexus Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for the info and your help today, I really liked working with you, betcherass if I buy a car I'm gonna buy it from "you".

    Has he ever come back and bought a car ?
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Mr. Wang or Mr. Patel for the most part are never loyal customers. They will go the the guy that will save them an extra penny.

    Neither are GM, Chrysler or Ford head Honchos good repeat customers - all true blue Mr. Smith and Mr Johnson. They will go to the country / vendor that offers them the cheapest production cost.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Would you say that if you paid MSRP for a car that everyone was buying for $2,500 below MSRP? Lets face it few things in this world are sold at MSRP.

    And awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay weeeeeeeee goooooooooooooo!!

    A sales person could care less what the last guy paid for a car or what the next one will pay. His only concern is what the guy sitting in front of him right now will pay.

    If we sell 50 F150's in a month to non plan customers there are no two deals the same. What are we supposed to do, average it out at months end and send a refund to the ones who paid above average and a bill to those who payed below???

    Let me go ahead and answer that, No, because every deal stands on its own.

    All of you grinders should be happy as hell that there are people out here every day paying sticker. If it wasn't for them we would have to run all of ya'alls cheap asses (ha ha ha, J/K wouldn't want any one to take offense) off the lot. You got to have the good deals in order to take the crappy ones, that way it all evens out at the end of the month..
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    And we all know where the best CSI surveys come from and it ain't the grinder.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    If you paid full price at the groceries store or at a clothing store do consider that a rip off too? Those types of business have a bigger profit margin. But you don't have problem paying them.

    Have you ever seen either of these business inside out?
    It is not as profitable as you think it is. Groceries have minimal margins 1-2%.

    Clothing stores - who do you think pays for the sizes and designs that don't sell? Yourself? Do you pay for a size 40 also when you buy yourself a size 4?
  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    Thats a good point. This is a perfect example of what I've been saying. Treat everybody the same. At the end it all adds up...... LETS MAKE SOME MONEY....... :shades: :shades: :P
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Like I have always said, a good salesperson will have minis, middl of the road deals and home runs. A poor salesperson will have all minis or all homeruns.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I think if I could pick a retail business it would be Jewelry or Furniture. I know for a fact that they are working on a fat mark up.

    I bought my wife a 2 CT Wedding Set several years ago from one of my customers. I went into his shop to check out his bling. He owed me a favor because I wrote a warranty on a truck for him one time that could possibly have needed some Tranny and AC work done on it at the time I sold him the plan.

    As it worked out the $1200 Warranty saved him about $1800, and that was after you net out the price of the warranty.

    Any how I go in and check out the bling. I knew what she wanted I just had to find it. So I pick out a set that has a $5300 tag on it. I didn't know it was that much when I picked it out, for some reason those sneaky Jewelry guys don't have to display their prices, they can hide it on a little tag underneath till you ask.

    I tell him that it was a bit above my budget. He says don't worry about it, if that is what you want just bring $3K cash to work with you tomorrow and I will deliver it.

    So drops $2300 right off the bat and if I was not such a nice guy I probably could have worked him for another $800.. Hell I was willing to give $4500 but hey as they say "He who speaks first in negotiation loses" (no offense Mr Wang.)

    My point is IMO we in the car biz catch allot of crap what is a pretty small profit margin to start with. The average Joe is getting killed every time he buys a new futon or gold necklace and those guys get a free pass.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,362
    "...But I felt better paying or wasting t he $5 to get the annoying person away from me..."

    Are you suggesting that being a PITA is a sales strategy? Hot damn, I never knew that all the jack-asses in my life were just trying to sell me something. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,362
    "...MSRP is what the factory have set to be fair..."

    I'm not sure I can agree with that one. Since all the info became available on the internet I think MSRP has become almost irrelevant. Besides, many of your fellow salespeople on this board claim that the "market" determines price. So price can be above MSRP or below invoice depending on the car.

    "...If you paid full price at the groceries store..."

    Please don't bring that argument up again. There are some posters here who will debate that issue until we are all ready to stick our heads in the oven. :cry:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    There are some posters here who will debate that issue until we are all ready to stick our heads in the oven.

    But what the real question is did you pay sticker for the oven or did you grind them down?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    You haven't answered the question though.

    If we sell 50 F150's in a month to non plan customers there are no two deals the same.

    I would suspect that the vast majority are sold within a certain range of prices.

    Out of those 50 150's how many are sold at full MSRP?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    Successful sales people show value.

    Today&#146;s business world is more competitive than ever before and most sales people think that price is the only motivating buying factor. Successful sales people recognize that price is a factor in every sale but it is seldom the primary reason someone chooses a particular product or supplier. They know that a well-informed buyer will usually base much of her decision on the value proposition presented by the sales person. They know how to create this value with each customer, prospect, or buyer they encounter.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,362
    "...I never meant anything racial about that comment..."

    I'm sure you didn't. It's human nature to catagorise people. You just have to be a little more sensitive that's all.

    For what it's worth, where I sell it is true that Asian and Indian customers are more likely to try to haggle with you. For many of them this IS a cultural thing just as most Americans like to argue over football teams. Russians are also likely to get you to lower the price. So skin color has nothing to do with it.

    I would think that a clever salesperson could taylor their presentations to offset any cultural tendencies.

    By the way, the name shirley1539 has lead at least one poster to assume that you are female. True, or is this gender bias? ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    I'm Male. I'm from India. Its actually spelled differently but its easier to pronouce this way.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,362
    "...if I buy a car I'm gonna buy it from you..."

    I met a salesman at the car show back in November. He was a nice guy and answered my questions without BS. I kept his card and am going to call him tomorrow to set up a test drive (if he still works there). I just figured he deserved first shot. Am I that rare of a customer?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Out of those 50 150's how many are sold at full MSRP?

    If we get a good mix of Super Crew Diesels and Super Charged Harley trucks in the mix then we will get probably 40% at list. If we sell a bunch of XL work trucks to Commercial buyers then it drops down to around 20%. BTW I should have said FSeries not F150's

    We sell FSeries trucks and Mustangs for list all the time. Hell on a % basis we sell more Focus's and Rangers for list then anything. The reason being is there is no mark up to start with. List minus rebate and there you have the selling price.

    If a customer has a trade in it is not that hard to get list price for a unit, all you do is concentrate the negotiations on the trade. It is the straight sale no trade deals that it is hard to do on unless it is a specialty unit.
  • shirley1539shirley1539 Member Posts: 30
    What part of the country are you selling Fords at? Here in LA its damm hard to sell those cars. I have a friend who used to sell them until they closed down the dealership where worked for 10 years.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,625
    "Class" was once defined as making the other person feel comfortable, regardless of the situation.

    You've got it.

    I dearly hope the salespeople I deal with during my next purchase do.

    Odds are. . .
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    What part of the country are you selling Fords at?

    In TN. Our business bottomed out in 2001 but has grown about 5%-10% per year since 2002, we are building a new dealership as we speak and will have the largest planning volume in our Region.

    Your friends biz gave up to quick. As soon as Ford gets done shedding the dead weight we are going to need wheel barrows to go to the bank with.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,625
    ". . .we all know where the best CSI surveys come from and it ain't the grinder."

    Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full. I love driving & enjoy cars. The dealership that minimizes my pain will get a good survey. I do the bobst thing & it goes very quickly. The last several cars (prior to the last one) were bought with a minimum of hassle on either side, and I went away feeling fine & put in a survey that reflected that. I think it's called a "win-win."

    The last vehicle came from a local (my wife wants the sales tax to stay in the city -- go figure) store that is huge here in AZ and does everything you've ever read about. I wasn't screwed, but I was bent over (hadn't seen a four-square in years prior, especially for a cash deal with no trade). Earnhardt isn't just a NASCAR name. I came away feeling like I needed to take a shower, even though the numbers matched up on the bottom line.

    Having spent (far too much) time here since then, I think I've figured out that F&I somehow screwed the sales guy, though I'm confident that would never happen. Either way, I'll never darken this guy's door again & will enjoy paying the right money to the next dealer for my next car. I've driven this one 126K miles and I'm due.

    I've had some of my faith in the human race restored on this board (and much of my normal mode reinforced as well), so will look forward to finding a worthy contact when the time comes. I like it when it's easy, and I'd like to think I know when I'm being (wait, delete that) taken advantage of.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Don't worry, rocky. A greenpea sold me my 1989 Cadillac Brougham back in the day when all the "seasoned vets" ignored me because they "prequalified" me as some stupid broke twenty-something kid who was wasting their time when all along I had a low mileage two-year old paid-off 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic for a trade, a bulletproof credit rating, a high-paying job, and a substantial down payment.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    When I bought my Cadillac DTS Performance, I was wearing a black jacket I bought at Sears, some Dickies trousers, a white sweatshirt and some sneaks. The salesman treated me with great respect. Of course I bought my 2002 Seville STS from him a little over 5 years ago, so I guess that helped!
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,451
    As I mentioned, my wife is Chinese and recognizes the differences in CULTURE. We're not saying these are bad people. We're saying they operate in different ways that may or may not be to our liking.

    Your "outrage" is pretty disingenous. Get over yourself.


    Amen! In a similar vein, a friend of a friend made this little film. And yes, the film maker is an asian woman.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • benzserviceguybenzserviceguy Member Posts: 96
    GP ..

    being a transplanted native New Yawker and big time Big Blue fan, you name the terms and I'll take the action .. you will spot me the 14 points, right??
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    Notice anything wrong with the 2008 Silverado on the left listed at $5000 off MSRP??

    Redesigned Silverado??
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    As soon as Ford gets done shedding the dead weight we are going to need wheel barrows to go to the bank with.

    I have to say that Ford makes some of the best product at this time.

    However, they face two major obstacles. First, some of their dealerships are really old school and turn off a lot of customers from the start. The local one - in a distant suburb of Chicago - had inventory of EIGHT new cars and twenty new trucks when I was in the market last March. Not much selection and the worst sales guy in the bunch. (No, all Fusions do NOT come with AWD.)

    Second, I can remember all of the problems with the two Topazes I owned - the $500+ brake repairs, the transmission problems, etc that I have never had with any of the non-Ford products that I have owned.
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