Stories from the Sales Frontlines

15075085105125132003

Comments

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    jipster, where have you been? I've addressed this issue ad nauseam on the Camry boards and here. The 07 V6 was "not recommended" by CR. Have they recommended the 08 or 09? We have no problems selling the V6.

    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Here's a few answers.

    Hybrid means two sources of propulsion. Not all Hybrids are the same. Toyota's Hybrid synergy drive system switches between the gas engine and electric motor as need, using one or the other or both at the same time depending on driving conditions.

    Honda's Civic system is a different type of system where the gas engine is enhanced by the electric motor.

    You won't go far if you run out of gas. I wouldn't recommend it as the battery will discharge very quickly and leave you stranded.

    Prius has Toyota's third generation technology whereas Ford and Nissan licensed Toyota's second gen technology but they work the same way.

    Prices are up at the pump. Here, regular is hovering around $3.15 a gallon with Premium around $340.00

    :shades: Mack
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    It was March, 2004...

    15 year fixed hit 4.5% for about 2 days... I locked it in... closed in late April, 2004..


    There must have been two money give away dates. I just looked at mine and I closed the first week of August 2003 (I was wrong, well not really, since I said I thought it was August 2004) so I guess I locked in at the end of July 2003 at 4.5%.

    Maybe what the economy needs is another couple give away days. Whatever is being done now isn’t working. :(

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,660
    seem to be pretty low again. I refi'd also in that same time fram (prob2004, I don't think it was 5 years already..) for 15 years at something like 4.375.

    Want to perk up sales? Convert a bunch of the sub prime loans into fixed loans at current 30 year rates (what is that, 6.5%?) People make payments and keep the house, finance cos. don't have to forclose on a bunch of houses not worth the loan amount, etc.

    Would also ease the glut of houses for sale, and most importantly, free up money for car shopping!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    I had an eye-opening experience early in 2006. We had a buyer for our existing home, and we signed a contract to purchase a new home under construction in a nearby neighborhood.

    Less than one week before the scheduled closing on our existing home, the buyer backed out! Because this happened less than two months before the scheduled completion of our new home, I was, naturally, very nervous!

    The builder of our new home is a very large track home builder. In fact, they have their own mortgage company. Below is a paraphrased transcript of my next phone call to their mortgage company:

    Me: I've got some bad news. My home didn't sell, after all. Because I have a $250K loan on that house, and no money to put on this new house, does that mean I might not qualify for this new home purchase?

    Mortage Rep: How much again is the price of your new home?

    Me: It's about $520K. If I go through with this purchase, I would need to borrow nearly the full purchase price, while still making payments on my old mortgage. On my salary, I don't see how I can do this!!

    Mortgage Rep: Well, I see from you loan application that things aren't too bad. We should be able to give you a primary mortgage for 80% of the purchase price, and then give you a 2nd loan to cover the other 20%, so that you don't need to pay PMI. As long as you provide us with proof that your other house is on the market, and you don't lose your job, I don't see any problems with us granting you these loans.

    --

    So..., there is an example of what was happening out there. I never would have felt the slightest bit comfortable taking out a loan for over $300K, yet here was a banker who was allowing me to make payments on more than $750K of mortgage loans, with no money down on a $500K home! :mad:

    --

    Fortunately, we found another buyer, and the completion of our new home was delayed nearly a month. So, things worked out well for us. (Whew!)

    But, ours was an exception. For example, there was a couple who moved into the new home next door. They had recently made some money selling their old condo in California. With this new money, they upgraded the home with slate and real wood flooring. They upgraded their kitchen with the most expensive "professional grade" stainless steel appliances. He drove a Hummer II, while she drove a Mercedes ML500. (I am trying to show a glimmer of on-topicality here!)

    I expect that house to go into foreclosure within the next couple months. They were the most striking example of $50K Millionaires I've ever seen.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    jipster, where have you been? I've addressed this issue ad nauseam on the Camry boards and here.

    I usually remember things that are discussed "ad nauseam", as it usually is in correlation with some interesting or "dramatic" exchanges . The discussion over in, "2007 Toyota Camry Transmission Questions" got pretty juicy in October (with your posts). It must have been September when I last checked it out. Can't recall it being discussed ad nauseam in this discussion. Perhaps mentioned in passing.

    But, your response in the "2007 Toyota Camry..." discussion reminds me a bit of the encounter I had in 2004 with a Toyota salesman. We were shopping 2-3 year old Sienna minivans in early 2004. I had been researching the van, and the problem of oil sludged engines had come up several times in postings. This particular 2002 Sienna LE was in pretty good condition. There was some cat fur scattered about that even the dealerships mighty Kirby was unable to pick up, and there was a gaping hole in one of the second row seatbelts... looked like the cat had been chewing on it. Anyhow, I asked the salseman about engine sludge problems with some of Toyota's engines. He replied, "What engine sludge problem?" My guess is that unless a particular model has a certain problem with over 6-8% of their vehicles, it is likely to go unnoticed... or dismissed.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • ventureventure Member Posts: 3,176
    Prices are up at the pump. Here, regular is hovering around $3.15 a gallon with Premium around $340.00

    OK. That's it!

    I'm selling the BMW and getting something that uses regular grade gas. I haven't filled up in over a week. I didn't know gas got that expensive. ;)

    2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I never denied that there was a problem with the initial batch of 07 V6 Camry. In fact I even mentioned that we bought back a v6 le that I sold to a NC customer and she went to arbitration over the problem. The dealership replaced the tranny, it didn't help, (twice) and the car drove worse than before. When she came back to pick up the car we got for her and I drove the first one back to the trade lot I noticed right away the shuddering of the whole car. I know it was not normal. I have not driven another Camry that acted that way. Also as I mentioned before these are adaptive transmissions so someone coming out of an 8-10 year old car is going to think something is wrong when in fact the car is adapting to the driver's way of driving. I drive these cars every day and when brand new you can actually feel the car doing the adjustments.
    Mack :shades:
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Oooops I meant to say premium is hovering around $3.40 not $340.00!
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    And on the sludge issue, I also commented that I've personally seen cars coming in with sludged engines and the original factory oil filter still on the vehicle. Just last week we had an 06 Scion xB with sludge due to no oil changes since it was bought back in 05. It's amazing the car made it in to the shop on it's own, just barely. I took a picture of the underside with the oil pan removed and the gelled oil can be seen. Not a pretty sight.
    Mack
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    They are taking an awful chance giving cars away without any guarantee of getting paid.

    Au contraire, their risk is minimal. If you don't pay, they repossess, sell the vehicle at auction (at a very low price) and go after other assets to cover the deficiency. A vehicle loan is NOT an unsecured loan (like credit cards).

    What steams me the most is I was transfered to Chicago in 2000 and had to provide documentation of every account to get a mortgage that was little more than a luxury car loan. I made the mistake of not including the first page of a brokerage statement (the address page), and I had to fax that to the mortgage lender ...
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    Prius has Toyota's third generation technology whereas Ford and Nissan licensed Toyota's second gen technology but they work the same way.

    Are you sure about that? If so it means that the third generation (Camry) is not a great improvement over second generation (Altima) in fuel consumption terms.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Geeze, when I just bought my new Cadillac DTS Performance back in November, they didn't even run my credit. "Uh...you're not going to run my credit?" "Oh, we know you're credit is good, Mr. Lemko!" Well, yes is is. I did a free credit report on myself before buying the car to avoid any embarrassment and it turned out to be even better than I expected. However, how could they just assume it was good? For all they know I could've maxed-out 14 credit cards and gambled my salary away at the racetrack.

    Anyway, I got the 0% financing deal myself, but put down $5,500, paid the taxes, title, and had a trade. Was that dumb or should've I just financed the whole amount? :confuse:

    Funny how the financially responsible are becoming rare these days. I couldn't even sleep if I were teetering on the edge of financial ruin like so many folks who are indifferent to their predicament.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Regular gas is 3.50 a gallon now in the Seattle area!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Funny. I was thinking about buying a house in the suburbs, but would've needed to sell my existing house in the city before I could do so. The mortgage broker said something about a "bridge loan" against my current place to tide me over until it sold. Geeze, well what if it doesn't sell in a reasonable amount of time? Well, I know it would be really tough to make two mortgage payments for an extended period on my salary, so I backed out.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    (I'd buy a Bullitt today if I could get one on X Plan)

    The difference between X-plan and the price you could buy one for at a particular Ford dealership I know of that is just south of you is only $2400. Possibly an even $2000 above X-Plan if you happen to know the right person. :D This particular dealership does not have the $5K addendum on them like allot of its competitors. :D
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Depends on what you compare it to. If we go back and compare month to month with what we were doing in the late 90's and early 2000's then our business is off. If we compare it to the last 5 years then we continue to have a little growth from month to month.
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    I highly recommend the same dealership. I too would like a Bullitt Mustang-they are very cool.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    I never denied that there was a problem with the initial batch of 07 V6 Camry

    Oh, I know. I believe your initial post was that you had not heard of this problem with the transmission (my Toyota salesman said he had not heard of the engine sludge problem). You asked your dealerships master tech and he confirmed they had a few V6 Camry with the problem.

    My point on the matter though, was that problems such and those with transmissions or brakes, etc (with any manufacturer), aren't widespread and numerous enough to show up and be noticed at a particular dealership, but are widespread and numerous enough to show up on message boards... and Consumer Reports.

    edited: i.e In CR, the difference between getting a solid black circle (bad) and getting a solid red circle (good) is only 3 percentage points.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Problems whether real or imagined spread like a prairie fire on message boards. People read of problems and then they microscopically examine their own cars fearful that they might be affected too.

    In support of Toyota, the "sludge" problem was totally overblown. People that skimped on oil changes were subject to sludged up engines. Now, maybe Toyotas were more prone than some other cars to sludge up but the vast majority of people never had a problem.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Funny how the financially responsible are becoming rare these days.

    I know what you mean but it really isn’t funny. Just goes to show you how being financially irresponsible will eventually have an effect on all of us. I seem to remember hearing my economics professors saying something to this effect many years ago and I thought they were referring to government spending. I guess some people have watched how the government does it and figures it applies to them. One of the differences is, the government has a printing press to help get over the hurdle for the short term. I didn’t say this was right but they can be in control for a little while.

    I couldn't even sleep if I were teetering on the edge of financial ruin like so many folks who are indifferent to their predicament.

    It’s a culture; these people live their lives like this and are oblivious to what is down the road.

    How many times have we heard people that live in that kind of a world say, “In the end it always works out”. Some of us say, “I don’t want to find out”. :cry:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    How about some reverse logic for you today? Premium fuel is a bargain right now. Think back a few years when regular fuel was $1.00 per gallon. O.K. maybe more than a few years but stay with me here. Premium fuel at that time was $1.20 per gallon. That was a 20% surcharge for premium. Now at $3.40 for premium vs $3.15 for regular, it is less than a 10% surcharge. What a bargain!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Back around April of last year (2007) we sold a small rental house. I was just tired of it. A nice single guy bought it for $130,000.

    Before we closed on the loan his mortgage company called me and said he was having trouble coming up with the down payment and asked me if I would mind increasing the selling price by $3,000. Then they would show that he had actually paid $3,000. more as a down payment even though he did not.

    Having bought many, many houses over the years starting about 1970, I asked them if they were sure that this was not illegal. They said absolutely not it was just to keep the paperwork straight and to help him out.

    I probably should not have but I went along with it. Now I am wondering how to keep from showing I made $3,000. more in profit on the sale than I actually made. :sick:

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Possibly an even $2000 above X-Plan if you happen to know the right person. :D

    Finally.. we’re going to have a sales tale. :shades:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Now I am wondering how to keep from showing I made $3,000. more in profit on the sale than I actually made.

    Well... your name is houdini. You should be able to get out of this one. :sick:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Well... your name is houdini. You should be able to get out of this one.

    I ducked that one because I knew you'd take it. You can be my spades partner anytime. :shades:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,219
    Hi, GP: Of course, being a Sunday Globe subscriber, I'm familiar w/Quirk...

    But, the Norwood Automile is a stone's throw from me. In fact, as spring approaches, a man's fancy turns to...NEW CARS!!! I'm planning a trip down AutoMile lane as soon as there's a decent weekend day (fully identifying myself as Lou. Lookie Lou.). If, of course, the evil wife allows. And I don't have to chauffer the kids here & there...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    :) I wouldn't bet against myself!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    GP, how much of a market adjustment is your store putting on the GT-R? I have one of my regulars inquiring since here the dealers are doing 30k over MSRP which puts this car in Porsche 911 territory. He's also looking at a Viper on e-bay for 89k. The car has to be red. Let me know and I'll give you his contact info.
    Mck
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Now I'm upset. kyfdx beat my mortgage rate by 1/8%.

    Yeah, that was a good time to refinance.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    I just can't believe the sub prime lenders didn't see this coming.

    The lenders and their brokers didn't care. They made their money originating then selling the loan. They could care less what happens to the loan five years later. Mortgage lending used to be much more of a long term deal. It simply isn't anymore.

    Those buying the loans and putting together financial packages backed by those loans could have been a little more diligent or prudent. Perhaps a little too optimistic. Now we're all feeling the pressure from too much pessimism.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I just can't believe the sub prime lenders didn't see this coming.

    Not sure but I saw this coming two years or more ago. Just way to much new home building going on.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Everyone had to see that it was coming sooner or later. I can't imagine anyone being surprised at anything but the timing.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well about a little less than a year ago I started seeing new home builders offering incentives to buy. Things like 6 months no payments, free upgrades and the like. Right there and then I knew it had already started and that it would only be a short while before it went nuclear.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,584
    One of my neighbors is the GM of a Nissan Dealer. A few weeks ago I saw him at the gym (our condo complex has a small hotel type gym). While we were on the treadmill next to each other, I asked him about the new Murano, Rogue, if he's heard anything about the next generation Z. He says he's excited about the GTR. He told me he had to pay a $25,000 franchise fee to get the right to sell 3 GTRs this year. He says he's gotten calls from people offering $30K over sticker and hasn't called them back yet.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • ventureventure Member Posts: 3,176
    How about some reverse logic for you today? Premium fuel is a bargain right now. Think back a few years when regular fuel was $1.00 per gallon. O.K. maybe more than a few years but stay with me here. Premium fuel at that time was $1.20 per gallon. That was a 20% surcharge for premium. Now at $3.40 for premium vs $3.15 for regular, it is less than a 10% surcharge. What a bargain!

    Everything you say may be true, but we were talking about $340.00 a gallon. Logic that.

    2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    He told me he had to pay a $25,000 franchise fee to get the right to sell 3 GTRs this year. He says he's gotten calls from people offering $30K over sticker and hasn't called them back yet.

    Now that's what I call a real return on your investment. Nice work if you can get it.

    I'm sure only the largest volume dealerships even had the opportunity to make this investment. I'm not sure how the little guys can compete anymore; the service dept. can only take you so far. :(

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    He hasn't called them back? How on earth did he become a GM? Maybe he expects he'll get more for the cars but I doubt it.
    Mack :shades:
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,344
    "...sell the vehicle at auction...and go after other assets to cover the deficency..."

    Yea, I supose they can do that unless the person is one of those 50K millionaires who just defaulted on his mortgage when the adjustable rate went up. It just seems chancy to me to loan money like that. :cry:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    (fully identifying myself as Lou. Lookie Lou.).

    LOL

    GP
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,344
    "...In CR the difference between getting a solid black circle (bad) and getting a solid red circle (good) is only 3 percentage points..."

    Really? I never knew that. I always assumed that the red cars were VASTLY better than the black ones. It hardly seems fair that such a small difference could result in a 50% drop in sales for the "black sheep".

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,344
    "...Now I am wondering how to keep from showing I made $3000 more in profit on the sale..."

    You could give me the 3K and then claim me as a dependant. :P

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    GP, how much of a market adjustment is your store putting on the GT-R?

    That's a really good question. We have been alloted 4 of them. At firest we were telling people we didn't know what it was going to be. We told them we were going to do " market price " Which was going to be $10,000 - $15,000 over sticker. We took 3 deposits that way.

    2 weeks ago we got our 4th one... We had a guy come down last week to the store and we told him it was going to be $20,000 over sticker price. He said no problem and gave a $5000 deposit. I guess you can tell he will be the first one called.

    I am not sure on the colors we are getting. All i know is there is a paint charge for silver. A additional $3000 just for that color. I will check and see if there is a red available or not.

    I have heard some dealers are asking for $30,000 and more.... Who knows could be just people talking.

    At my store the dealer is only paying the sales peole on the gross up to sticker. Which is about $5800 in gross... Either way it is a car. some of the guys are upset about it. I just tell them you can't make a living on one car. :surprise:

    GP
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Really? I never knew that. I always assumed that the red cars were VASTLY better than the black ones. It hardly seems fair that such a small difference could result in a 50% drop in sales for the "black sheep".

    That used to be the case but a few years ago CR changed the way they do the ratings by tightening up their standards. Turns out too many new cars were getting full red circles and based on the old standard there were hardly any unreliable vehicles. If your whole franchise is built around telling people how to avoid the bad cars and then your own data shows that there aren't any bad cars left you are pretty much out of business.

    CR quietly changed their standards to make more cars show up as black dots.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    We told them we were going to do " market price " Which was going to be $10,000 - $15,000 over sticker. We took 3 deposits that way.

    There is nothing wrong with that but I feel there is something wrong with your next comment below. The dealer might even be hurting themselves.

    2 weeks ago we got our 4th one... We had a guy come down last week to the store and we told him it was going to be $20,000 over sticker price. He said no problem and gave a $5000 deposit. I guess you can tell he will be the first one called.

    Why should the guys who showed up first and were willing to pay “market price” not have an equal chance now? Don’t you think your store should contact those hopeful buyers and tell them the “market price” just went up and ask if they’re still interested? Who knows, this could be a windfall bigger than what the owners first thought. The auction route is the best way to weed out the real guys who want to be the ‘first on their block to own’ vs. the lookie lou’s.

    At my store the dealer is only paying the sales peole on the gross up to sticker. Which is about $5800 in gross...

    Some things just ain’t fair. The owners get all the breaks but of course they paid for them upfront, probably years ago. :surprise:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Now I'm upset. kyfdx beat my mortgage rate by 1/8%.

    ‘fez’, you just gotta calm down. Did you hear me go off the deep end when ‘stick’ said he got 4.375% in post 26281, when I got 4.5%. Remember, we’re all poster palls here; just trying to keep each other informed. But it does support the saying that once you buy something don’t go looking at prices.

    Maybe this should be extended to casual reading here at Edmunds. :mad: /

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    If you give your car back to the bank, the bank sells it and then comes after you to make up any loss they had, right? Do the banks do the same thing if you walk away from a mortgage? Just curious.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I was hoping someone would volunteer. I'll get that check right out to you. What is your address there in Nigeria? :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Do the banks do the same thing if you walk away from a mortgage? Just curious.

    Yep, any secured loan the loan is only secured up to the value of the item securing the loan. If the loan for the item is more than the item is worth the loan granter can go after you for the difference. So if you owe $250K on your home that worth $225K and the bank forecloses on it then sells it at market value then they can go after you for the additional $25K.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Good. At least these a-holes aren't getting off scott free!

    This being the case I can't figure out why they would do it.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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