Actually I had an experience today that might have on any other day a waste of a salesman's time. Hopefully today it wasn't. At least he reassured me that I wasn't wasting his time. He didn't seem to show it either. So I don't feel bad about the test drive I was able to take today.
Ever since the new GM trucks have come out, I have been itching to look at, touch and see what they were all about. I am no where near being in the market for one, so I never could feel good about going into a dealership to look at them. But today I had about an hour or so to kill and I knew that there was a GMC dealership just down the street. Since it was Wednesday the middle of the week, plus it was kind of a foul weather day I decided to take a chance that the place may not be very busy and go see if they would let me look at a couple of the trucks they had on the lot.
I pulled in and there was not a customer in sight that I could see and a couple salesmen standing just outside the showroom door looking seriously bored. They asked me what I wanted and I told them that I would just like to look at the Seirras. The NEW ones. I didn't want to buy, I only wanted to look. One of them looked at the other I guess trying to decide who was going to handle a no-sale person and then one of them told me sure we can go take a look...
He opened up a couple of them and we poked around and then he asked if I would like to take a test drive. I asked are you sure? I am not buying and he said yeah, why not? I'd like to get out of here for a few minutes anyway. So I said yeah let's go... I never thought that I would actually get to drive one of these trucks until I was actually looking to buy one. So I was pretty elated when he offered up the test drive. I didn't really want to ask because I didn't want to waste his time because I knew I wouldn't be buying. But since he offered - why not??
So we took off on a test drive. Not just a trip around the block either. It was up a few miles on the freeway and then back down the other way and several blocks around city streets. All in all about 30-45 minutes of driving and about 20 miles worth. The truck had 12 when we took off and about 30 when we brought it back. The truck itself was a pretty good truck; way way better than the previous model. The salesman was pretty cool through out the whole thing and we talked most of the time.
When we got back, he didn't even try and ask so you sure you don't want to try and work a deal? His partner however wasn't about to let me go that easily. I had also wanted a brochure on the Acadia and before giving me one, his partner asked me if he could get me a payment of xxx a month would I be interested. He wanted to know why I wasn't ready to buy and if I were to buy would I trade in my current ride and a couple other questions... Nothing rude, nor was I rude back. I just told him simply that I wasn't in the market yet. My current ride was paid off and I didn't want to add another payment to my list (unfortunately, I would have had to finance some portion of the vehicle and I didn't want to do that. When I do get ready to buy, I wnat to be able to either put a substantial amount down, or pay for most in cash and not be limited to how much a month I can afford.) He understood that and didn't push further, but he did try and so I will give him props for that. He tried, put forth an effort to maybe make a sale, but when he saw that he wouldn't be able to, he quit wasting his time. I don't fault him for that. In reality he might actually be a better salemsan than his partner because even though I told him I wasn't buying, he still decided tp try and see how serious I was about the "I'm not buying"... Some people this is just a front and others like me, it really is true.
The other guy I went on the test drive with gave me his card and I didn't have a problem giving them my name and number... I also was able to walk out of there with a brochure on the Acadia and a smile on my face because I was able to test drive the Sierra!!
Maybe that's how the dealership I was in the other day was going to get me into an 07 30K+ Sierra?? I was only in there to look and ended up on a test drive, and then right as I was about to leave one of the salesmen asked if he could get me a payment of $200 a month would I be interested....
First thought that crossed my mind is how in the heck are you going to get a 30K truck down to 200 a month without knowing if I had any cash, what my credit looks like or without knocking more than half the price off.... Even at 0%, 200 a month is 2400 a year which is still over 12 years of payments! I figured it was just a bait thrown out to snag me into talking numbers and since I wasn't there to buy anyway (which they had previously been told quite politely, but firmly), I thanked him and said I wasn't looking to buy. I was half tempted to ask him how he was going to swing that 200 a month payment, but knew the answer wouldn't be that simple or quick and knew I would get dragged into a time wasting numbers game so I left...
Don't get me wrong... it was a pretty good experience. It appeared to be a slow day and one of the salesmen was more than willing to help - he even offered the test drive, even knowing I wasn't going to buy. He wasn't the one that tried to hook me with the $200 a month payment.
I think you can probably back outat any point unitl you sign the very last one, but is it really ethical to do so? I mean that unless you came across something while signing that the dealer snuck in there, or while signing you found that the deal was no longer what you had previously discussed, then why would you want to back out.
The only reason I see for backing out during the process of signing is that the papers you are signing are not the deal that you had agreed upon....
changed my mind for whatever reason, is it a good enough answer? Car buying can be very emotional, at least to me.
Question is - I guess you do what ever you have to do. I know for sure the dealer wouldn't be happy, nor the salesman, nor the F&I guy. Basically you'd probably make the entire sales force that put their time and effort into getting to the signing part pretty unhappy. I wouldn't blame them. Is it ethical? I don't think so, but if for what ever reason you decided that you can't/shouldn't buy the car and must back out, I wouldn't dare set foot in that dealership again.
Word of advice - car buying shouldn't be emotional. That will get you into trouble very quickly and hence you find yourself asking this very question. A car purchase should be a well thought out practical decision before you even set foot into the dealership to actually buy. You should know if you can afford the car, you should know what your limit will be. You should know if you really need a car or not. Or at the very least if you don't "need" a car, and just "want" a new car if you can get a good deal, be prepared to walk if you don't get the deal you want, but walk before you start signing papers. I would also go in prepared to buy if you get the deal you want and I would have done enough research to know when the deal is a "good" deal. Or you can just do the "bobst" method and have a take it or leave it deal ready to go.
Either way, I would find it hard to swallow a "beacuse I changed my mind" reason if I were the salesman or F&I guy and we were right in the middle of signing papers. I know I would be a pretty unhapper guy.
Take the emotional part out of car buying. That should resolve this question. If you have to bring emotion into it, go to the dealer, anounce that you are not here to buy, but only want to test drive the vehicle you are emotional about. Make sure the dealership understands you are not going to buy. Go on a slow day. Make sure you also understand that you are not going to buy today, no matter what. This is your research phase of your practical evaluation. That way you can get emotional over the car and the test drive but not be bound by any obligation to sign any papers. After the test drive go home and let your emotions settle and process what you learned through the test drive and then continue with your practical evaluation of the car and if you really want to buy it.....
In short - do what ever you can to avoid having to get into the situation of having to back out "because you changed your mind". The end result will not be pretty.
ah ha - now the rest of the story comes out. I was under teh impression that things were going fairly well and for what ever reason you just decided that you didn't want to buy the vehicle...
hence my long assuming reply
After hearing the rest of the story I can see a reason for walking out. You didn't like the way things were going, the deal was not turning out the way you had wanted it to and the dealer started to pull tricks. All legit reasons in my book to walk out. You didn't just simply "change your mind", although that is a simple way of putting it, they tried to change the deal and so you walked. They lost a deal because they tried to pull a couple fast ones, and you as the informed buyer caught it and didn't put up with it.
So yes, your situation would be different than what I stated, however I was in the frame of mind that you may have just walked into a dealership with no research done, no intention of buying a car and just a whimsical notion of "Hey! Maybe I'll buy a car for fun of it!". Then you get halfway through signing papers and reallize that you just may have got roped into something that you shouldn't have and decided to "change your mind"...
So I apologize for assuming too much But my advice still stands - although you obviously don't need it.
I'll throw in into the party that I would prefer non-detailed engine department. Of course if the top is clean, you can always take the car to your trusty mechanic (and hopefully not the seller's brother ), and take a peak underneath. A look underneath might tell a whole different story.
It wouldn't matter to me if the interior was "detailed" or just a good cleaning. If the car was kept in good shape, a deep detail wouldn't really be needed, and the car wasn't well taken care of, then I doubt that even the deepest detail wouldn't hide the fact.
Reminds me of a time I stopped at a Buy-here, Pay-here lot just to look at a truck that I might have been interested in since it was similar to mine, but 4 wheel drive. While walking to the truck, I passed an Astro Van on the lot with it's windows down. I was slightly intrigued when I passed by the open window an got a whiff of something unsettling. I poked my head into the window and about retched at the stench. It smelled like well... I won't mention it here, but it wasn't pine scented air freshener hanging from the mirror. They wanted like 8K or something like that for the vehicle.
I immediately decided that I wouldn't be remotely close to purchasing the truck. I was even more sure when I got to the truck I was interested in. It was nice enough - too nice. At least it didn't smell. But I started it and popped the hood to take a look at the motor. Spotless. It was a low mileage. About 1/3 of what I had on mine even though they were the same model year. But upon closer inspection I noticed that there were no vin #'s on the fender's or hood and I noticed a little bit a bubbling by the hood hinges and the radiator support was missing a warning or id sticker.
The dude at the lot told me it was a clean truck and never in an accident, but I pointed out the bubbles and the lack of vin #'s and said I was pretty sure this section of the truck has been repaired/replaced. I also pointed out how much nicer the front of the truck looked compared to the rear. (It looked similar to way my previous truck looked after it got out of the shop when they replaced the entire front clip. Hood, fenders, bumper, headlights etc.) The front looked brand new, but as you got past the doors and to the bed sides, I could see scratches and blemishes in the paint. The bed didn't have a liner and showed obvious use. These things normally wouldn't concern me, but when paired with a front end that looked like it should be on the showroom floor, I was a little concerned.
The dude looked at me like I was crazy and said it wasn't possible. CarFax was clean. He also told me that sometimes people peel off the vin #'s. I almost said bull!@#$, but just told him no, I didn't think so, but have a nice day and I left. Needless to say, I wasn't interested in that truck anymore, or any other vehicle that was on thier lot.
The last time I used a high pressure system to clean off my engine, it took a little bit to get it run right. I may have gone a little overboard, but it took a while to get it started, the brakes didn't work and it ran rough until all the water had dried out....
I was actually able to grab a loss leader on the vehicle I am driving now. Fortune must have been smiling on me that day as I was on the way home to replace the fuel pump in my non-running vehicle just so I could turn around and figure out how to get it to turn off. (Long story that is posted somehwere here on the boards)...
I didn't banter at the price and by the time we were all done warpping up negative equity, the total price of the new vehicle actually came out to a little less than what it booked out to. So even with the trade/negative equity, I still came out basically on top, if not even with what was owed and the what the vehicle was worth. Since I was so glad to be out of the broken vehicle, I wasn't too worried about the price, although it was nice to be able to get the deal that I did.
We bought our latest vehicle in Ocotber of '04. I too since then have been "shopping".
At any given moment, I could tell you what I have my eye on and that has changed a couple of times in the last 2 years from the Magnum, to the Trailblazer to now either the Acacia or Outlook...
For my truck it has been the same story. I have gone from the Colorado when it was first introduced to the Tacoma and then a Silverado. Right now it is a still a Silverado, but it is now the new Generation...
So we'll see what happens in the next few years as I get ready to replace vehicles. Who knows when that will be? Both vehicles run great, are paid off and don't have any foreseable problems that would warrant replacement of the vehicle. But I like to "shop" so that I know what is out there so that when the time comes that I "need" a new vehicle, I am not stuck with "oh no what do I do? Well what do you have on your lot?"
When I was a teenager our family had an Astro Van that survived 2 teen drivers (my sister and I) and my mother. By the time we sold it, it had about 170K on it. But it also had the front end replaced because my sister had yet (and still hasn't) to learn not to follow to close. I ended up taking the side view mirror backing out of the car port, my mom backed into a telephone pole crunching the rear bumper and it had numerous scratches and dings all over... It also went through tires faster than my dad thought it should too. That was probably related to the way I drove.
On the other end of the spectrum my dad had a 82 Datsun Pickup that while not entirely rust free, didn't have a dent one on it. The paint had severely oxidized and there were a couple rust spots on it, but the body was as straight and true as the day he bought it. He of course was the only one that drove it.
I did something I have never done before at a dealer ship... I just parked and walked up to an Acadia and started looking. Always before there has been a salesman nearby and I have always told them that I wanted to just look at such and such a vehicle or I wanted a brochure on such and such a vehicle.
This time however, there was no one on the lot, although the lot was cramped into the middle of a downtown corner section. There was barely only like 3 places for customers to park. And even then it was crowded space. I didn't feel like going into the showroom to look for someone as I really only wanted to poke around an Acadia. The dealer had finally gotten one in and I had been wanting to see the actual vehicle in person instead of just a website and magazine pictures.
So since there wasn't anyone in site, I just walked up to it to take a look. I noticed it was open so I started opening the doors and poking my head inside. After a few minutes I was done, but felt like I had violated some law and although I was ready to leave, felt I needed to tell someone that I was there and was just looking. So I poked around a couple more minutes and finally a sales person came out and greeted me and showed me a couple features like the seats and the DVD player.
I told him I was just looking and that I all ready had a brochure. All I really wanted to do was look at it. I didn't even want to test drive it. I am so far away from purchasing, that it wouldn't have served any purpose except to satiate my desire and waste the salesperson's time. So I bid good day and left. It was a little odd, but is it really okay just to walk around the lot and look with out telling anyone you are there and then leaving with out ever speaking to anybody???
I was about to just leave when the guy came out and had he not come out in the next minute or so I would have left and the dealership may have never known I was there.
FWIW - I had an odd feeling at the dealership anyway and had I been in the market I probably wouldn't have bought from that particular place. It was just odd. I can't quite describe it.
Immediately after that I also stopped at a Chevy dealership just down the road to pick up a Silverado brochure. The internet sales manager was standing outside talking with a service customer and immediately broke away from that conversation to help me. I told him I didn't want to interupt anything, but he said it was fine and the customer he was talking to had his car come around for him at that moment anyway so the sales manager turned his attention to me.
I told him all I really wanted was a brochure for the Silverado. We went inside and got one and then we started talking and he said he had just started getting several of them in and we proceeded to walk over to where they were. We looked at a couple and I poked at a couple, but he knew I wasn't going to be purchasing soon. We just blew the breeze for a few minutes. He asked what I did for a living (he noticed the logo on my shirt). I told him I own and operate my own small business. We talked about that for a few minutes and before I left he had a business card from me and a possibility of doing business for him in the future.
I left with his card and a though in my mind that when I am ready to buy, this will be the place I come back too. Since there are at least 3 vehicles in the future that I can see needing (a truck, family hauler, work vehicle), this looks like a good place to come. Also since they also sell Honda and Nissan I would have a wide selection of both brand and type of vehicles to find one or several that fit my needs.... Titan and Silverado, Oddysse or Acadia (hopeing they can get a GMC even though it's a Chevy dealer , Frontier or Colorado and so on...
Since this was the 2nd time I had visited this dealership (the last time was a little more serious as I was looking for a replacement work vehicle, but those plans have been put on hold for a bit), and this time was a good as the first even though I wasn't really serious, I have a feeling that this place will probably be a good place to do business.
Reading your post brought to mind a "King of Cars" (I hate to mention the name ) I happened to catch the other day...
This lady was trying to buy a car and it was mentioned she was 6K upside down and the car they were trying to get her into coming in too high for her.
She ended up in an '03 Santa Fe for over 400 a month. Don't know what terms and rates are, but that was close to what I was shelling out a month for my Impala brand new! I am assuming here, but it couldn't have been a 60 month term? That would be over 20K for an 3-4 year old Hyundai... To me that seems a little high. WOW. Not that the vehicle is a bad vehicle, but WOW. A used '03 Santa Fe in excellent condition tops out at 12-13K, so I guess add in her 6K negative equity and you can get close to 20K, but close enough to push a payment over 400 a month for 60K? Would a bank even finance that? Where the loan value exceeds the vehicular value by almost half again?
Been there and done it... Both of the vehicles I own now were financed for 5 years and that was 2 and 4 years ago that I bought them. Both vehicles we paid off approx 2 years of so into the loan.... so it can be done, but I do agree with you that some one says, "oh I can just pay it off early..." and then they never do.
I think that is when the Kelly Blue Book values adjust to reflect the changes in model years... when an '07 now becomes a year old, an '06 becomes 2 years old and so on.... ??? Maybe I am wrong, but I think I remember a salesman telling me that a while back when he was trying to get me to trade my truck NOW before it hit 100K and the "new" book values came out, insuring that I recieved the most for my trade.
I still have the truck and it's over 100K now... I don't think it'll be getting traded anytime soon.
It was a sales tactic... one that didn't work as I wasn't going to buy, but the guy seemed to think that if he hit the right trade numbers he could make a deal...
Too bad I had never planned to trade my truck so mileage or book values never meant a whole lot. I might sell privately, but probably not since the truck I am driving now will get turned into a weekend project once I replace it.
yeah - there is a show CSI Miami and also Vegas that uses H2's and Denalis for the investigators... Can't see why a Police Depts would or could actually justify spending that kind of tax payer dough on a vehicle that isn't as utilitous as a vehicle costing less.
Eh... I'll just buy what ever cheap 1-2K car I can find that they can trash and I won't care because they'll have to come up with the dough to replace it. It'll get trashed because they are kids and I trashed the first couple of cars I owned.
I am not going out and dropping 5-6K much less 10K or more for a brand new sled that'll most likely be abused in very short order. By the time my kid(s) are ready to drive, my Impala I am driving now will be the perfect fit for them. By then it'll probably have close to 150K or more on it and be almost 16 years old, but if it's still around, then that's what they're gettin.
So I wonder, do you think that if I had a concern like that if I could just have a copy of my license with me and when they ask to make a copy, show them the copy I brought and would that be okay??
I remember when I bought my current S-10 and was checking it out, I didn't know it had a 3rd door until I had it home and was going over it again... The thought never occured to me as I had been driving a '95 which didn't have the 3rd door.
A few years ago I was able to buy my current truck off an ad similar... the Chevy dealership had on thier marquee an S-10 for 10,500. I was in need of a new vehicle at the time and so I went in to see what the dealership had. I had a specific list of options I needed and a list of options that I could do with out if needed depending on how the price figured out to be... after walking through the lot and not finding anything that fit my needs, we ended up at the advertised vehicle. It had everything I needed, and all the options I could have done without unfortunatly were not there, but at least it had everything I needed. We struck a deal and I came out pretty good even after paying off the negative equity on my trade. Even after paying off the negative equity on my trade, I ended up owing what the vehicle was worth at the time.
Here are the numbers as I remember them...
This was in 2003. The advertised vehicle was a used 2001 Ex-cab Chevy S-10 LS package with 25K miles on it. Dark Blue in color. V6 motor with automatic. Carpeted interior with cloth buckets. Third door, bed liner, chrome bumpers, aftermarket cruise control, AM/FM Cd Player, alloy wheels. It did not have power windows or locks or tilt steering wheel. The price listed was 10,500.
I traded a 1995 GMC Sonoma SLS ex-cab. It was pretty much loaded with a V6, manual tranmission, power windows, door locks, tilt wheel, alloy wheels, fog lights, power mirrors, bucket seats, GMC embroidered floor mats and body color bumpers and chrome grille insert. I owed 4K on it and was given 1K for it. I didn't argue the amount because the truck had 100K on it and was not running at the time. It needed a new fuel pump and then after that, it needed to have the electrical gone through so it would you would be able to turn it off with the key. It had also had the starter, entire steering linkage, clutch, transmission, and shocks replaced (this all before 90K). It had also been in a front end collosion. So I was just glad to get it off my hands....
Mack - I lover your stories.... I just hate waiting for the "continued" portion . It's almost as bad as waiting for summer to get over so all the TV shows that left me hanging with their season finaless can finish their stories.
A couple months ago I visited a dealer in Arizona because I had some time to kill before an appointment. I am not in need of a new vehicle, but my current one has over 100,000 and so I wanted to be prepared when the time does come to replace it.
Unfortunately this particular day happened to be the Friday before Memorial Day. I had forgotten this and didn't realize it until I was in the showroom and was greeted with balloon's banners and sale signs. I was greeted by a salesman and he asked what I was looking for. I explained that I was only looking and that I would like to look at 3 particular vehicles to see which one would meet my needs more fully and then test drive one so that when the time came to finally purchase I will have done my research and know what I want.
The salesman almost disregarded 2 of the choices and went straight towards my 3rd choice. Mostly because this particular vehicle was the vehicle of the promotion and so that obviously was the one he was going to push. Fortunately it was more in line of what I wanted and a better deal than the smaller vehicle I was also looking at. We walked up and down the lot, although I didn't really find one in the color and options I was looking for. To me that didn't matter since I was not going to purchase that day. What did matter was driving position and vehicular operation which would not be affected by color or radio choices, or wheel options. We did take a test drive and the I found the vehicle to be what I needed and the size would be big enough for my family, but not a behemoth like my wife feared... She has a great distaste for overly large vehicles.
We went back to the dealership and I started to bid good day... but I was stopped by the salesman. Previous to going on the test drive he had asked what I currently drive and I had told him. While we were on the test drive a manager or someone in the back had evaluated the info and they told me they had a buyer for my vehicle at $x,xxx. I was astounded at the amount as it was signifacantly lower than what I knew the value to be. I told them no I was not interested in selling or trading in my vehicle. I was not ready to buy and I was there to do was get a feel for the vehicle so that I would be ready when the time came. They made me another offer and brought the price of the truck down. Again I tried to explain to them that I was not there to buy. I didn't want to buy. I had a fully paid off vehicle, I don't owe anything on it and was was in perfect running order. Yes it had 100K miles on it but I didn't want to have to make car payments. It was kind of nice not to have to do that. The then touted the fact that I would have a warranty and no worries with a new vehicle and that it would be NEW and it would meet and exceed the needs I had with my current vehicle. I came back with - I'll have higher insurance, and CAR PAYMENTS and my current vehicle already meets my needs - why should I toss that away? They could not seem to except that. Besides all that I was not in a position that I wanted to have car payments. I was getting ready to move out of state to start a new business and the last thing that I wanted was to throw another expense on top of moving, the uncertainty of having a new business and the uncertainty of income. They didn't know that yet since I didn't feel the need to divulge my personal life to them. But I finally felt that I needed to so that they would understand hopefully why I wasn't buying and hopefully have a little respect for me as a customer that when I was saying no, I really meant no.
Finally they came to terms with that. By the time they did that though, they had the price they would pay me for my current vehicle to just under what I would be willing to sell it for myself, brought the price of the truck down to a very attractive offer, but to put the cream on top, the last guy to come talk to me must not have been told what was going on, just that I was being a hard nose, is that he tried to go all the way back to the begining of the numbers game. I told him no and even if he gave me the truck for $100 dollars a month I still wouldn't buy. They finally understood and I left.
However the story doesn't end there. For about a month afterwords I would get about 2 phone calls a week from them seeing if I was still interested. One such call told me I was placed on the dis-satisfied customer list so that I would be able to get an even better deal should I come back in. I always told them no and I finally ended up moving and they finally quit calling.
Is it so much to ask that I can just look at a vehicle with out being pressured and forced into a numbers game when all I really want to so is get a feel for the vehcile I will eventually purchase? Needless to say, I will probably purchase that particular model, but not from that dealership.
ya - I should change it huh? This is only like the second time someone has questioned though... read my profile and you'll see that it should be big Al. An old middle school nickname
Okay - I'll thrown my 2 cents in here.... not a salesman and rarely a customer (last car I bought was 2 years ago, although it was new), but having been in customer service business before I find it rude and intolerable when you are trying to take care of a person, whether it be checking them out at the cash register, writing a oil change up, trying to sell them the proper tires for their vehicle (I used to be a service mangaer at a Wal-mart Tire and Lube Express). I absolutley refuse to answer my phone if it goes off while I am conducting business. It is always on vibrate so it doesn't distract. I even rarely answer it while working. I'll glance at who it is and then know if it's important. If it is someone important, I know they'll leave a message and I can call them back when I get a break.
Anyway, back on topic - I would have been tempted to do the same thing in your situation... I think he got what he deserved.
but what would you call a dealer who was trying to get $20,500 for a 2005 Focus or was asking the same price for a 5 year-old pt cruiser as deskman was asking for a 2008 cpo unit?
I was talking about the uninformed buyer. But like I have already said, they will always be taken advantage of and you guys need buyers like this especially during times like this when your biz is struggling.
Maybe I shouldn't complain, it's the uninformed buyer that pays the most that allows people like me to pay the least (or so I think).
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
They try to gross you on the toyota sidebuyside or the honda deep freezer
Then toyota/honda/best buy wack you for delivery/setup , ice cube maker, indoor water, croak and choke and service contract.
Buyers will always have options to choose from. But I've never heard of an appliance place selling used refrigerators for near new or more than new prices. I'm sure someone can cite an exception but I'm talking normal sales.
As for service contracts, I think I know where that started and I don't blame you for trying to make a buck at this. I understand it's business.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
And we better make some dough on the 4 cyl cars. How else are we going to pay the interest on all those dinosaur SUV's that we are all stuck with.
I like your honesty, some of us here have been saying that the sippers will help your sales quite a bit.
Has your manufacture/s been able to keep up with the demand? Of course if/when they do that profits will return to normal. Which leads me to another question. When dealers see this is about to happen do they tell the factory to slow down? Just curious.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If we get a Dem President you car dealers and salesmen better watch out. They will probably nationalize the car biz cause you guys are actually making a profit now and then!! Shameful!!
It seems to me that some dealers are taking advantage of the current panic by jacking up 4-cyl prices WAAAAAY beyond what they ought to be.
Like the salesmen here always tell us -- "you never know until you ask." If somebody is stupid enough to pay that, well, sucks to be them, and somewhere out there a baby seal comiserates with his pain.
As usual, caveat emptor, do your homework and don't buy a car w/o being prepared.
I'm with GP on this. The other day when I went to buy my trimmer, the lady that assisted me showed me the easy start mechanism and how it worked. Then she upsold me on the 2 cycle six pack of 2.2 fluid ounces, a polycut head that uses thermo plastic cutting blades, and an extra pack of 12 blades. When I asked for the AARP or Military discount she threw in a spool of medium line and a full tank of gas! This particular brand of power tools is sold through franchised dealers and they are like Scion. Pure price, no discount, no matter which dealer you buy at. I chose one that's close to my house to make my purchase. I gave her one of my cards and told her to come see me when she needs a car. Unfortunately she just bought one two weeks ago. I also gave her boss one too.!
I like to reward great service. Some people go out of their way to be helpful. Mack
I don't know about the domestics, but Toyota dealers don't say anything. The factory knows when it's time to slow production due to slow moving vehicles. When demand goes up than normal or higher production is resumed. Right now they have slowed production of Tundras, Sequoias, and Tacomas. Increased production on Camry, Corolla, Yaris, and there's a backlog of Prius orders since they can't produce the battery packs fast enough. Ford and Nissan are having the same problem getting battery packs for their hybrids. Mack
The best thing a Dem pres could do is to unionize the sales people. Right now we have no protection whatsoever and dealers do whatever the heck they want to their salespeople and get away with it. :mad: Mackabee
Best bill I've seen among the nine on oil speculation.before congress would require anyone who buys or sells a futures contract on oil to prove that they are able to accept physical delivery. John Larson D-Conn. Not a prayers chance of passing because the fellow legislators don't understand the market. Increased regulation ok, but this one would stop 95% dead in their tracts. They should ram( truck term to make it relevant) it through under the banner of national security.
Level = med I met a gin soaked bar room queen in Memphis, She tried to take me upstairs for a ride....
Comments
Ever since the new GM trucks have come out, I have been itching to look at, touch and see what they were all about. I am no where near being in the market for one, so I never could feel good about going into a dealership to look at them. But today I had about an hour or so to kill and I knew that there was a GMC dealership just down the street. Since it was Wednesday the middle of the week, plus it was kind of a foul weather day I decided to take a chance that the place may not be very busy and go see if they would let me look at a couple of the trucks they had on the lot.
I pulled in and there was not a customer in sight that I could see and a couple salesmen standing just outside the showroom door looking seriously bored. They asked me what I wanted and I told them that I would just like to look at the Seirras. The NEW ones. I didn't want to buy, I only wanted to look. One of them looked at the other I guess trying to decide who was going to handle a no-sale person and then one of them told me sure we can go take a look...
He opened up a couple of them and we poked around and then he asked if I would like to take a test drive. I asked are you sure? I am not buying and he said yeah, why not? I'd like to get out of here for a few minutes anyway. So I said yeah let's go... I never thought that I would actually get to drive one of these trucks until I was actually looking to buy one. So I was pretty elated when he offered up the test drive. I didn't really want to ask because I didn't want to waste his time because I knew I wouldn't be buying. But since he offered - why not??
So we took off on a test drive. Not just a trip around the block either. It was up a few miles on the freeway and then back down the other way and several blocks around city streets. All in all about 30-45 minutes of driving and about 20 miles worth. The truck had 12 when we took off and about 30 when we brought it back. The truck itself was a pretty good truck; way way better than the previous model. The salesman was pretty cool through out the whole thing and we talked most of the time.
When we got back, he didn't even try and ask so you sure you don't want to try and work a deal? His partner however wasn't about to let me go that easily. I had also wanted a brochure on the Acadia and before giving me one, his partner asked me if he could get me a payment of xxx a month would I be interested. He wanted to know why I wasn't ready to buy and if I were to buy would I trade in my current ride and a couple other questions... Nothing rude, nor was I rude back. I just told him simply that I wasn't in the market yet. My current ride was paid off and I didn't want to add another payment to my list (unfortunately, I would have had to finance some portion of the vehicle and I didn't want to do that. When I do get ready to buy, I wnat to be able to either put a substantial amount down, or pay for most in cash and not be limited to how much a month I can afford.) He understood that and didn't push further, but he did try and so I will give him props for that. He tried, put forth an effort to maybe make a sale, but when he saw that he wouldn't be able to, he quit wasting his time. I don't fault him for that. In reality he might actually be a better salemsan than his partner because even though I told him I wasn't buying, he still decided tp try and see how serious I was about the "I'm not buying"... Some people this is just a front and others like me, it really is true.
The other guy I went on the test drive with gave me his card and I didn't have a problem giving them my name and number... I also was able to walk out of there with a brochure on the Acadia and a smile on my face because I was able to test drive the Sierra!!
BTW - It really is a really nice truck...
First thought that crossed my mind is how in the heck are you going to get a 30K truck down to 200 a month without knowing if I had any cash, what my credit looks like or without knocking more than half the price off.... Even at 0%, 200 a month is 2400 a year which is still over 12 years of payments! I figured it was just a bait thrown out to snag me into talking numbers and since I wasn't there to buy anyway (which they had previously been told quite politely, but firmly), I thanked him and said I wasn't looking to buy. I was half tempted to ask him how he was going to swing that 200 a month payment, but knew the answer wouldn't be that simple or quick and knew I would get dragged into a time wasting numbers game so I left...
Don't get me wrong... it was a pretty good experience. It appeared to be a slow day and one of the salesmen was more than willing to help - he even offered the test drive, even knowing I wasn't going to buy. He wasn't the one that tried to hook me with the $200 a month payment.
The only reason I see for backing out during the process of signing is that the papers you are signing are not the deal that you had agreed upon....
Question is - I guess you do what ever you have to do. I know for sure the dealer wouldn't be happy, nor the salesman, nor the F&I guy. Basically you'd probably make the entire sales force that put their time and effort into getting to the signing part pretty unhappy. I wouldn't blame them. Is it ethical? I don't think so, but if for what ever reason you decided that you can't/shouldn't buy the car and must back out, I wouldn't dare set foot in that dealership again.
Word of advice - car buying shouldn't be emotional. That will get you into trouble very quickly and hence you find yourself asking this very question. A car purchase should be a well thought out practical decision before you even set foot into the dealership to actually buy. You should know if you can afford the car, you should know what your limit will be. You should know if you really need a car or not. Or at the very least if you don't "need" a car, and just "want" a new car if you can get a good deal, be prepared to walk if you don't get the deal you want, but walk before you start signing papers. I would also go in prepared to buy if you get the deal you want and I would have done enough research to know when the deal is a "good" deal. Or you can just do the "bobst" method and have a take it or leave it deal ready to go.
Either way, I would find it hard to swallow a "beacuse I changed my mind" reason if I were the salesman or F&I guy and we were right in the middle of signing papers. I know I would be a pretty unhapper guy.
Take the emotional part out of car buying. That should resolve this question. If you have to bring emotion into it, go to the dealer, anounce that you are not here to buy, but only want to test drive the vehicle you are emotional about. Make sure the dealership understands you are not going to buy. Go on a slow day. Make sure you also understand that you are not going to buy today, no matter what. This is your research phase of your practical evaluation. That way you can get emotional over the car and the test drive but not be bound by any obligation to sign any papers. After the test drive go home and let your emotions settle and process what you learned through the test drive and then continue with your practical evaluation of the car and if you really want to buy it.....
In short - do what ever you can to avoid having to get into the situation of having to back out "because you changed your mind". The end result will not be pretty.
hence my long assuming reply
After hearing the rest of the story I can see a reason for walking out. You didn't like the way things were going, the deal was not turning out the way you had wanted it to and the dealer started to pull tricks. All legit reasons in my book to walk out. You didn't just simply "change your mind", although that is a simple way of putting it, they tried to change the deal and so you walked. They lost a deal because they tried to pull a couple fast ones, and you as the informed buyer caught it and didn't put up with it.
So yes, your situation would be different than what I stated, however I was in the frame of mind that you may have just walked into a dealership with no research done, no intention of buying a car and just a whimsical notion of "Hey! Maybe I'll buy a car for fun of it!". Then you get halfway through signing papers and reallize that you just may have got roped into something that you shouldn't have and decided to "change your mind"...
So I apologize for assuming too much
But my advice still stands - although you obviously don't need it.
It wouldn't matter to me if the interior was "detailed" or just a good cleaning. If the car was kept in good shape, a deep detail wouldn't really be needed, and the car wasn't well taken care of, then I doubt that even the deepest detail wouldn't hide the fact.
Reminds me of a time I stopped at a Buy-here, Pay-here lot just to look at a truck that I might have been interested in since it was similar to mine, but 4 wheel drive. While walking to the truck, I passed an Astro Van on the lot with it's windows down. I was slightly intrigued when I passed by the open window an got a whiff of something unsettling. I poked my head into the window and about retched at the stench. It smelled like well... I won't mention it here, but it wasn't pine scented air freshener hanging from the mirror. They wanted like 8K or something like that for the vehicle.
I immediately decided that I wouldn't be remotely close to purchasing the truck. I was even more sure when I got to the truck I was interested in. It was nice enough - too nice. At least it didn't smell. But I started it and popped the hood to take a look at the motor. Spotless. It was a low mileage. About 1/3 of what I had on mine even though they were the same model year. But upon closer inspection I noticed that there were no vin #'s on the fender's or hood and I noticed a little bit a bubbling by the hood hinges and the radiator support was missing a warning or id sticker.
The dude at the lot told me it was a clean truck and never in an accident, but I pointed out the bubbles and the lack of vin #'s and said I was pretty sure this section of the truck has been repaired/replaced. I also pointed out how much nicer the front of the truck looked compared to the rear. (It looked similar to way my previous truck looked after it got out of the shop when they replaced the entire front clip. Hood, fenders, bumper, headlights etc.) The front looked brand new, but as you got past the doors and to the bed sides, I could see scratches and blemishes in the paint. The bed didn't have a liner and showed obvious use. These things normally wouldn't concern me, but when paired with a front end that looked like it should be on the showroom floor, I was a little concerned.
The dude looked at me like I was crazy and said it wasn't possible. CarFax was clean. He also told me that sometimes people peel off the vin #'s. I almost said bull!@#$, but just told him no, I didn't think so, but have a nice day and I left. Needless to say, I wasn't interested in that truck anymore, or any other vehicle that was on thier lot.
that was the last time I'll do that.
I didn't banter at the price and by the time we were all done warpping up negative equity, the total price of the new vehicle actually came out to a little less than what it booked out to. So even with the trade/negative equity, I still came out basically on top, if not even with what was owed and the what the vehicle was worth. Since I was so glad to be out of the broken vehicle, I wasn't too worried about the price, although it was nice to be able to get the deal that I did.
At any given moment, I could tell you what I have my eye on and that has changed a couple of times in the last 2 years from the Magnum, to the Trailblazer to now either the Acacia or Outlook...
For my truck it has been the same story. I have gone from the Colorado when it was first introduced to the Tacoma and then a Silverado. Right now it is a still a Silverado, but it is now the new Generation...
So we'll see what happens in the next few years as I get ready to replace vehicles. Who knows when that will be? Both vehicles run great, are paid off and don't have any foreseable problems that would warrant replacement of the vehicle. But I like to "shop" so that I know what is out there so that when the time comes that I "need" a new vehicle, I am not stuck with "oh no what do I do? Well what do you have on your lot?"
On the other end of the spectrum my dad had a 82 Datsun Pickup that while not entirely rust free, didn't have a dent one on it. The paint had severely oxidized and there were a couple rust spots on it, but the body was as straight and true as the day he bought it. He of course was the only one that drove it.
This time however, there was no one on the lot, although the lot was cramped into the middle of a downtown corner section. There was barely only like 3 places for customers to park. And even then it was crowded space. I didn't feel like going into the showroom to look for someone as I really only wanted to poke around an Acadia. The dealer had finally gotten one in and I had been wanting to see the actual vehicle in person instead of just a website and magazine pictures.
So since there wasn't anyone in site, I just walked up to it to take a look. I noticed it was open so I started opening the doors and poking my head inside. After a few minutes I was done, but felt like I had violated some law and although I was ready to leave, felt I needed to tell someone that I was there and was just looking. So I poked around a couple more minutes and finally a sales person came out and greeted me and showed me a couple features like the seats and the DVD player.
I told him I was just looking and that I all ready had a brochure. All I really wanted to do was look at it. I didn't even want to test drive it. I am so far away from purchasing, that it wouldn't have served any purpose except to satiate my desire and waste the salesperson's time. So I bid good day and left. It was a little odd, but is it really okay just to walk around the lot and look with out telling anyone you are there and then leaving with out ever speaking to anybody???
I was about to just leave when the guy came out and had he not come out in the next minute or so I would have left and the dealership may have never known I was there.
Immediately after that I also stopped at a Chevy dealership just down the road to pick up a Silverado brochure. The internet sales manager was standing outside talking with a service customer and immediately broke away from that conversation to help me. I told him I didn't want to interupt anything, but he said it was fine and the customer he was talking to had his car come around for him at that moment anyway so the sales manager turned his attention to me.
I told him all I really wanted was a brochure for the Silverado. We went inside and got one and then we started talking and he said he had just started getting several of them in and we proceeded to walk over to where they were. We looked at a couple and I poked at a couple, but he knew I wasn't going to be purchasing soon. We just blew the breeze for a few minutes. He asked what I did for a living (he noticed the logo on my shirt). I told him I own and operate my own small business. We talked about that for a few minutes and before I left he had a business card from me and a possibility of doing business for him in the future.
I left with his card and a though in my mind that when I am ready to buy, this will be the place I come back too. Since there are at least 3 vehicles in the future that I can see needing (a truck, family hauler, work vehicle), this looks like a good place to come. Also since they also sell Honda and Nissan I would have a wide selection of both brand and type of vehicles to find one or several that fit my needs.... Titan and Silverado, Oddysse or Acadia (hopeing they can get a GMC even though it's a Chevy dealer
Since this was the 2nd time I had visited this dealership (the last time was a little more serious as I was looking for a replacement work vehicle, but those plans have been put on hold for a bit), and this time was a good as the first even though I wasn't really serious, I have a feeling that this place will probably be a good place to do business.
This lady was trying to buy a car and it was mentioned she was 6K upside down and the car they were trying to get her into coming in too high for her.
She ended up in an '03 Santa Fe for over 400 a month. Don't know what terms and rates are, but that was close to what I was shelling out a month for my Impala brand new! I am assuming here, but it couldn't have been a 60 month term? That would be over 20K for an 3-4 year old Hyundai... To me that seems a little high. WOW. Not that the vehicle is a bad vehicle, but WOW. A used '03 Santa Fe in excellent condition tops out at 12-13K, so I guess add in her 6K negative equity and you can get close to 20K, but close enough to push a payment over 400 a month for 60K? Would a bank even finance that? Where the loan value exceeds the vehicular value by almost half again?
I still have the truck and it's over 100K now... I don't think it'll be getting traded anytime soon.
Too bad I had never planned to trade my truck so mileage or book values never meant a whole lot. I might sell privately, but probably not since the truck I am driving now will get turned into a weekend project once I replace it.
Eh... I'll just buy what ever cheap 1-2K car I can find that they can trash and I won't care because they'll have to come up with the dough to replace it. It'll get trashed because they are kids and I trashed the first couple of cars I owned.
I am not going out and dropping 5-6K much less 10K or more for a brand new sled that'll most likely be abused in very short order. By the time my kid(s) are ready to drive, my Impala I am driving now will be the perfect fit for them. By then it'll probably have close to 150K or more on it and be almost 16 years old, but if it's still around, then that's what they're gettin.
Here are the numbers as I remember them...
This was in 2003. The advertised vehicle was a used 2001 Ex-cab Chevy S-10 LS package with 25K miles on it. Dark Blue in color. V6 motor with automatic. Carpeted interior with cloth buckets. Third door, bed liner, chrome bumpers, aftermarket cruise control, AM/FM Cd Player, alloy wheels. It did not have power windows or locks or tilt steering wheel. The price listed was 10,500.
I traded a 1995 GMC Sonoma SLS ex-cab. It was pretty much loaded with a V6, manual tranmission, power windows, door locks, tilt wheel, alloy wheels, fog lights, power mirrors, bucket seats, GMC embroidered floor mats and body color bumpers and chrome grille insert. I owed 4K on it and was given 1K for it. I didn't argue the amount because the truck had 100K on it and was not running at the time. It needed a new fuel pump and then after that, it needed to have the electrical gone through so it would you would be able to turn it off with the key. It had also had the starter, entire steering linkage, clutch, transmission, and shocks replaced (this all before 90K). It had also been in a front end collosion. So I was just glad to get it off my hands....
Unfortunately this particular day happened to be the Friday before Memorial Day. I had forgotten this and didn't realize it until I was in the showroom and was greeted with balloon's banners and sale signs. I was greeted by a salesman and he asked what I was looking for. I explained that I was only looking and that I would like to look at 3 particular vehicles to see which one would meet my needs more fully and then test drive one so that when the time came to finally purchase I will have done my research and know what I want.
The salesman almost disregarded 2 of the choices and went straight towards my 3rd choice. Mostly because this particular vehicle was the vehicle of the promotion and so that obviously was the one he was going to push. Fortunately it was more in line of what I wanted and a better deal than the smaller vehicle I was also looking at. We walked up and down the lot, although I didn't really find one in the color and options I was looking for. To me that didn't matter since I was not going to purchase that day. What did matter was driving position and vehicular operation which would not be affected by color or radio choices, or wheel options. We did take a test drive and the I found the vehicle to be what I needed and the size would be big enough for my family, but not a behemoth like my wife feared... She has a great distaste for overly large vehicles.
We went back to the dealership and I started to bid good day... but I was stopped by the salesman. Previous to going on the test drive he had asked what I currently drive and I had told him. While we were on the test drive a manager or someone in the back had evaluated the info and they told me they had a buyer for my vehicle at $x,xxx. I was astounded at the amount as it was signifacantly lower than what I knew the value to be. I told them no I was not interested in selling or trading in my vehicle. I was not ready to buy and I was there to do was get a feel for the vehicle so that I would be ready when the time came. They made me another offer and brought the price of the truck down. Again I tried to explain to them that I was not there to buy. I didn't want to buy. I had a fully paid off vehicle, I don't owe anything on it and was was in perfect running order. Yes it had 100K miles on it but I didn't want to have to make car payments. It was kind of nice not to have to do that. The then touted the fact that I would have a warranty and no worries with a new vehicle and that it would be NEW and it would meet and exceed the needs I had with my current vehicle. I came back with - I'll have higher insurance, and CAR PAYMENTS and my current vehicle already meets my needs - why should I toss that away? They could not seem to except that. Besides all that I was not in a position that I wanted to have car payments. I was getting ready to move out of state to start a new business and the last thing that I wanted was to throw another expense on top of moving, the uncertainty of having a new business and the uncertainty of income. They didn't know that yet since I didn't feel the need to divulge my personal life to them. But I finally felt that I needed to so that they would understand hopefully why I wasn't buying and hopefully have a little respect for me as a customer that when I was saying no, I really meant no.
Finally they came to terms with that. By the time they did that though, they had the price they would pay me for my current vehicle to just under what I would be willing to sell it for myself, brought the price of the truck down to a very attractive offer, but to put the cream on top, the last guy to come talk to me must not have been told what was going on, just that I was being a hard nose, is that he tried to go all the way back to the begining of the numbers game. I told him no and even if he gave me the truck for $100 dollars a month I still wouldn't buy. They finally understood and I left.
However the story doesn't end there. For about a month afterwords I would get about 2 phone calls a week from them seeing if I was still interested. One such call told me I was placed on the dis-satisfied customer list so that I would be able to get an even better deal should I come back in. I always told them no and I finally ended up moving and they finally quit calling.
Is it so much to ask that I can just look at a vehicle with out being pressured and forced into a numbers game when all I really want to so is get a feel for the vehcile I will eventually purchase? Needless to say, I will probably purchase that particular model, but not from that dealership.
Anyway, back on topic - I would have been tempted to do the same thing in your situation... I think he got what he deserved.
Most car sales people I know are not afaraid to pay profit when treated right by another good sales person.
I know I am a lay down if I run into a good sales person
GP
Now these some good stories..... :shades:
GP
I would call that deskman.... :P
GP
Of course that's the simple solution for ME.
I was talking about the uninformed buyer. But like I have already said, they will always be taken advantage of and you guys need buyers like this especially during times like this when your biz is struggling.
Maybe I shouldn't complain, it's the uninformed buyer that pays the most that allows people like me to pay the least (or so I think).
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Then toyota/honda/best buy wack you for delivery/setup , ice cube maker, indoor water, croak and choke and service contract.
Buyers will always have options to choose from. But I've never heard of an appliance place selling used refrigerators for near new or more than new prices. I'm sure someone can cite an exception but I'm talking normal sales.
As for service contracts, I think I know where that started and I don't blame you for trying to make a buck at this. I understand it's business.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I like your honesty, some of us here have been saying that the sippers will help your sales quite a bit.
Has your manufacture/s been able to keep up with the demand? Of course if/when they do that profits will return to normal. Which leads me to another question. When dealers see this is about to happen do they tell the factory to slow down? Just curious.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Like the salesmen here always tell us -- "you never know until you ask." If somebody is stupid enough to pay that, well, sucks to be them, and somewhere out there a baby seal comiserates with his pain.
As usual, caveat emptor, do your homework and don't buy a car w/o being prepared.
"NEED A CAR?
SAVE THOUSANDS
almost
WHOLESALE PRICES
TO THE PUBLIC"
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I like to reward great service. Some people go out of their way to be helpful.
Mack
Mack
Mackabee
Nope, it's "you don't ask, you don't get" coined by yours truly.
Best bill I've seen among the nine on oil speculation.before congress would require anyone who buys or sells a futures contract on oil to prove that they are able to accept physical delivery. John Larson D-Conn. Not a prayers chance of passing because the fellow legislators don't understand the market. Increased regulation ok, but this one would stop 95% dead in their tracts. They should ram( truck term to make it relevant) it through under the banner of national security.
Level = med
I met a gin soaked bar room queen in Memphis,
She tried to take me upstairs for a ride....
That's my philosophy. Every baby seal that gets clubbed can mean more flexibility on the price I negotiate...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
"She, she screams in silence;
A sullen riot penetrating through her mind"
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive