carhag....the Nissan dealership is owned by the Wyler group. Honda is part of the the Performance Group. kyfdx is right about turnover there....particularly the floor sales people. Let me know if it's important to you to find out the sales person's name and I'll send you my email.
Although, Performance Honda (and the Toyota/Scion store right next door) doesn't seem any better or worse than any other dealership regarding sales turnover. I do know that their management staff (GM, service manager, etc) seem to be fairly consistent. My sales guy said he'd been there since he graduated from Ohio State 18 months ago. He was very up front and told me he was into "bonus money" with the sale of the Accord. Don't know what that means, but he seemed happy to make a skinny deal.
Jipster....the NIssan dealership is part of a very large autogroup owned by Jeff Wyler....a long time dealer-owner. He's expanded into just about every brand with the exception of the high lines. He does have a Caddy dealer right next door to the Nissan dealer. But has a Kia dealership on the other side of the Caddy store. I've come to expect their way of doing business to be standard operating procedure. They don't like the informed buyer, at any of their stores. To get a good deal, you're going to have to grind them. They like keeping you at the table as long as they can. While I can do the "grind" routine, it's not my preferred way of doing business. My offer isn't going to change, no matter how long they try to keep me there.
Through the years, I've tried several times to deal with Wyler's stores, if for no other reason than to keep the other dealers honest. The results have always been the same....NO SALE! Their tactics may change a little, but they're still high pressure. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do your homework, you can bet they'll flog you. Honestly, I'm surprised they're as big as they are, given the way they do business. That just tells me they are more focused on the uninformed buyer....that's the customer they want....the payment buyer.
As yet another post script....I've not dealt with the Honda store my friend bought from before. I've done quite a bit of business for myself or family members at the Toyota store. I know the owner's daughter, but haven't seen her in awhile. Found out she's helping out with one of their stores in Columbus. I also know the GM at the Toyota store. I guess he saw me wandering around the Honda lot, and he gave me a call yesterday asking me what I was looking for. I informed him I was shopping for someone else...and she wanted an Accord.
He asked why I didn't mosey on over to look at a Camry.
gg-"Well, I did. No offense, but the Camry just wasn't her cup of tea. She wanted a coupe".
GM-"What about a Solara? They look like a Lexus."
gg-"Well, that's the problem. Solara also drives like a Lexus...kind of marshmellowy".
He laughed and asked me what she paid.
gg-"$200 over invoice, but I got some winter mats thrown in and she got the special finance rate".
GM-"You hit at the exact right time....last day of the quarter. They've got some dealer participation money in that car for the special financing. The mats cost us around $100. Plus, seems like we ate the marketing $ we pay to Toyota. Sounds like you got into their knickers for some of the holdback. You did good. You going to give them a good CSI?"
gg-"Not mine to give, but she was very happy with the deal. We (she) were treated very well. And, she likes the car. She pulled a 650 on her credit score. Don't know what finance did with HMC, but they got her the special rate. That was a very good thing. I told her to give everyone "excellent" on the survey."
GM-"Good! When are we going to sell you another Toyota?".
gg-"Well, you want a 2 year old pristine Tahoe on your lot? I've got one to trade."
GM-"No thanks. I'm overrun with new trucks that I can't sell. Don't need any more used ones, either. I'm going to have to take a good portion of my used stock to auction. Probably take a bath on them, too. It's going to be a really bad couple of months for my Used Car Manager. On the other hand, I'm selling all the used and new 4 bangers I can get my hands on. I'm the only one in town who's selling hybrids at sticker. I can't get enough of them. Everybody else is selling them over sticker. I might have to rethink our pricing, if I can get any more of them."
the NIssan dealership is part of a very large autogroup owned by Jeff Wyler....a long time dealer-owner.
That tidbit of information may come in handy one day. Jeff Wyler has a Toyota dealership just across the river from Louisville in Clarksville Indiana. They advertise themselves as a "no haggle" dealership. Commercials on t.v talk about how much they value the customer and they will treat you right.
I don't know if Jeff Wyler owned that dealership 4 years ago when my wife and I visited, looking to buy a minivan. But, I do remember they wouldn't go down much in price, about $400, on a 2002 Sienna that listed for around $20k. I told them what we were wanting to pay, they didn't budge... so we walked. Glad we did to. As we ended up purchasing a brand new 2004 Mazda MPV (ZOOM ZOOM) for the same amount of money. Incidently our MPV has a birthday today... 4 years old ! Happy Birthday to my little baby... they grow up so fast on you.
1. the dealer messed up, and was to proud of the car, not willing to sell at market price.
2. the customer doesn't know what the market for the car is, asks for a stupid price, and gets dismissed.
I deal with a fair amount of people who come in and state right away, "I'm a good negotiator", then ask for a huge discount on a 135 convertible. A good negotiator goes home in a new car, a bad one doesn't.
That of course goes in both directions. That said, I see it all the time. Most people consider themselves an educated car consumer. I see that fact rear it's ugly head less than 3% of the time.
My offer isn't going to change, no matter how long they try to keep me there.
Good to see you around again. I guess you’ve been too busy for us. Maybe you’ve been boating, still the same one, I know you’ve been looking.
Anyway, I don’t move from my price either. Back in 88’ I was trying to buy an 86’ Grand Prix (this was before I had the 30 minute rule). I was probably at the table for more than an hour and was ready to leave when the SM comes out and says, “Mr. jmonroe, I’ve lowered my price for you three times already when are you going to raise your price once”. I knew I was working with a greenpea and the SM had him in training so I said, “do you or don’t you want to sell this car because that’s my price and I’m not raising it”. This is when he threw me a curve and said, “do you want to flip ”? I never heard that one before. I’ve told that tale here a couple of times so I’m not going to bore anyone with it again.
NO, I didn’t flip. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"GM-No thanks. I'm overrun with new trucks that I can't sell. Don't need any more used ones, either. I'm going to have to take a good portion of my used stock to auction. Probably take a bath on them, too."
I have seen many used car lots lately that have nothing left on them but trucks and big cars, the little ones are all gone, unless they are obviously a POS. I have to think that auction prices for trucks and SUVs must be approaching zero. :surprise:
"On the other hand, I'm selling all the used and new 4 bangers I can get my hands on."
And, of course, with supply and demand as it is, the small cars have all taken a jump in value. It's almost funny to shop economy cars on CraigsList. People are offering up all sorts of run-down, miled-up Hondas and Toyotas, and asking premium prices for them. :sick:
Hard times ahead for the American car manufacturers... and the people who try to make a living selling their products. On the other hand, we haven't heard much from isellhondas. I would bet that he is so busy writing up fat deals that he has little time to spend here.
And Mac, he sells Toyota, right? What are the chances that he will find time to finish that story he started?
We had incredible weekend weather wise in the PNW, temps in the 90’s. If there are any buyers I’m sure they would have been out this past weekend.
Isell might be taking some time off to rest up and cool down.
Hey j.....yeah, I took a position with a start up company. Not sure it was exactly the right move. I had it pretty "cushy" in my other position with an established company. I was a decent sized fish in a big pond with a track level of success.
In a startup, there's never enough time, never enough money to do the things that really need to be done, never enough revenue. Still, I knew what I was getting myself into. Lots of traveling. Lot of hours. But, if we pull it off, I'm retired post haste. If not? Well, I'm working for another 20 years.
Boat's gone. Sold it just at the right time...right before gas prices went gonzo. Had my eyeballs on another one, and then "this oil stuff" happened. Now, when I get the time, I'm a passenger with some of my old boating buds. Not a bad way to go. But, even they are only on the water about 1/3 of the time they used to be. I figured my fillups for my old boat would be right around $1,200 if I had kept it. At those prices, I wouldn't have been using it all that much, if at all.
Can't really understand this runup in fuel prices. I've heard all the excuses. Hard to bite on any of them. The runnup was just way too steep, and happened way too quickly for this to be a simple "market correction". I'm afraid there's something much more nefarious at work, here.
But, I'm veering off topic.
Yes, Wyler started out in the boonies with a single Chevy store. As time went on, and there was consolidation of dealerships, Wyler expanded. His tag line ("cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country") has gone the way of his "folksy" manner of doing business. While I've not been to all of his stores, the ones I have visited in the last several years, all seem to subscribe to the sleazier side of the car biz. Personal bias perhaps, but I'd say his stores use the worst tactics I've seen in this area. But, they must work. He's one of the largest dealership groups around here.
Someone mentioned the two BMW stores here in Cincinnati. Personally, I bought mine from "Jake". I had a good purchasing experience with them. But, I know kyfdx got his from the "other" BMW STORE. Heard nothing but good things about them, too. "Jake" gave me the best deal on mine, however. More than one person has told me they'd never deal with Jake, though.
As I'm sure most here think, if you've done your homework, know the market for any car you're in the market for, no dealer is going to be able to "flog you". It's just a matter of how willing you are to play the games with the "grinder" dealerships to get a good deal.
I stand by my theory, the longer you volley, the longer you sit at the negotiation table, your offer is only going to go up. In general, if you make a good (non-ridiculous) offer, and stipulate you're only making one offer, you'll either have a deal, or you won't. Some will try to bump you, but then you're back to paying more if you get into that game.
Conversely, while I was able to secure a really good deal for my friend, in talking to our sales person, they're selling Fits at sticker. There aren't any hanging on the lots at any of the Honda stores around, either. I was half tempted to buy it myself. I saw one couple trying to buy the only one the store had on their lot. The couple wouldn't accept the fact that the price on the Fit wasn't negotiable. They got to the point where they said they were leaving and told the salesperson to call them when they were willing to negotiate. There was another couple kind of milling around the Fit at the same time. Literally, before the first young couple actually pulled out of the driveway onto the highway from the dealership, this other couple had walked up and told the sales person they'd take it....at MSRP, pending a test drive.
This couple knew the market for the Fit. It's popular (especially now). They obviously knew that stock was next to non-existent. They jumped on the opportunity to buy a very hot model in a very hot market for it.
I may be spending more time here, as time allows. Without hanging around by the river much anymore, or around Cumberland Lake, I don't need the Tahoe. My 3 series is almost out or warranty. If I could package both vehicles, I'd make a deal. Don't know for what. I took a drive in that new small Infiniti SUV (EX35). Very nice vehicle.
Hell, I was so impressed with my friend's new Accord, I may look at one of those, too.
So, maybe more stories on the "buyers" front line could be forthcoming.
She should have driven the Camry SE. Beats the Accord hands down in handling and performance. :shades:
End of the month leaves little time for posting. I'll finish the stories that are hanging in the next few days.
I doubt your friend at the Toyota dealer has any hybrids in stock to sell. All our Toyota stores in our region are sold out of Prius, Camry and Highlander hybrids.
Heck, I went 0 for 4 yesterday. Everyone I talked to wanted a Prius, or Highlander hybrid. "( ,acl
More than one person has told me they'd never deal with Jake, though.
That would be me. You might recall that I was the guy who was all set to pay cash for a CPO 540i Sport that Jake had on his BMW lot. My wife, son, and I spent 15 minutes walking around the lot AND the showroom and not once did anyone offer to help. To top things off, the one car I liked at the BMW Store was sold while I was being pointedly ignored by Jake Weeney's professional sales staff. I wrote a polite letter to Sweeney's used car sales manager detailing my bad experience and never received a reply.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
U.S. auto dealers on average lost money on new-vehicle sales for two years and are expected to see much deeper losses in 2008. Through April, the average loss in the new-vehicle department had doubled compared with the same period of last year, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association. "It's been tough in the new-car departments," Russ Darrow Jr., who owns 15 dealerships in Wisconsin that sell various brands, tells Automotive News. "Dealer volumes are down, and grosses are down, and expenses are up all at the same time."
NADA says the only other years with new-vehicle losses were 1990, 1991 and 1995. This year, NADA says, net losses are averaging $136 per new vehicle, compared with a $61 average loss in the first four months of 2007. The figures include finance and insurance operations, which are profitable. Back in 2004, the average profit per vehicle was $176.
In 2007 total dealership net profit before tax as a percent of sales remained unchanged from 2006, at 1.5 percent, according to the NADA DATA report. Dollar profits gained about 3 percent. While the new-vehicle department operating profit continued to fall last year at the average store, below breakeven, used vehicles contributed 27 percent of operating profit in 2007, a 1 percent decline from 2006. Service and parts brought in 81 percent of operating profits, up 4 percent from 2006.
I doubt your friend at the Toyota dealer has any hybrids in stock to sell. All our Toyota stores in our region are sold out of Prius, Camry and Highlander hybrids.
Heck, I went 0 for 4 yesterday. Everyone I talked to wanted a Prius, or Highlander hybrid.
Does Toyota make anything other than a hybrid? I thought the greenest automobile manufacturer in the universe stopped making regular vehicles years ago!
I'm new in the Car Biz. 6 months in. I love the selling portion of the gig, but I need to work on my follow up. I sell 10 to 13 a month on average, but my gross' are average and above, with usually a mini or two a month. I'm really into the biz of selling cars, and I feel like I've finally found something I'm good at. But with all this doom and gloom you cant help but read about, is it a bad time to start a career selling vehicles? :confuse:
Welcome to the Biz. Now is a GREAT time to be selling cars. Approach this like a business, not just something to do during the day and you will be surprised at the rewards you reap.
When I heard that GM's sales wer off about 18% in June I shook my head. I feel bad for GM as they seem to be trying to put our some better cars.
Then I heard that Toyota was off 20% in June and I almost fainted!
Maybe the car business is as bad as the media is saying. I'm certainly seeing more and more large vehicles out on front lawns these days. The dealers must be telling these folks to sell their gas guzzlers themselves. It's looks more and more like people trying to sell worthless stock after the crash of '29.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
It's looks more and more like people trying to sell worthless stock after the crash of '29.
I think people are just being irrational and hysterical. I'm sure (hope) that things will hit bottom soon and things will return to normal -- SUVs are worth a bit more money, and small cars are worth a bit less.
On the other hand, I'm selling all the used and new 4 bangers I can get my hands on.
Yes, it certainly seems to be a bit crazy in that regard. I traded a 4-cyl Ford Contour when I bought my new Saturn Astra... the dealer gave me about $800 less than trade-in blue book for it, which was about what I expected for an ex-rental car with the driver's side power window mechanism broken and some other problems. What shocked me was that they listed it for $2000 more than dealer resale blue book, and it was gone within a month!
a good time to be selling certain things. If you like it, all the better. Don't put too much in to the doom, and gloom set. They always have an excuse as to why they can't sell.
Stay positive, and take time to build report, and do quality walk arounds, and demo's. You'll be fine.
"But, I do remember they wouldn't go down much in price, about $400, on a 2002 Sienna that listed for around $20k. I told them what we were wanting to pay, they didn't budge... so we walked. Glad we did to. As we ended up purchasing a brand new 2004 Mazda MPV (ZOOM ZOOM) for the same amount of money. "
How is this comparison even close? if you said that you bought another 02 sienna for alot less then it might sound right, but seeing how you went to another brand, this comparison is apples to oranges. Also, were they equipped the same? come on jip!
By TOM KRISHER and DEE-ANN DURBIN, AP Auto Writers
DETROIT - General Motors Corp. outsells Toyota Motor Corp. in June to retain its traditional U.S. sales lead, even though GM says its sales dropped 18.2 percent for the month.
Toyota sales had fallen 21.4 percent for the month. Both companies were hurt by a sluggish economy and poor sales of trucks and sport utility vehicles.
GM on Tuesday reported selling 262,329 vehicles for the month, compared with Toyota's 193,234.
For the first half of the year, GM sales were down 16.3 percent compared with the year-ago period. Toyota sales were down 6.8 percent for the first six months of the year.
Yep, you got it. The sheet they brought had numbers like this, keep in mind this was for an 06 Tundra 6 cyl 38K miles work truck with a bed that looked like it.
Price $18999 (original MSRP was about $20K) Savings -$3000 Prep fee $1000 Delivery fee $800 More savings $2000 Electric fee $1200 (I'm getting sarcastic now) Another fee $1000 Still another fee $1000 Additional savings -$2000 sales tax registration final out the door price
It really was insulting. I ended up buying from a different dealer, got an 06 Tundra 6 cyl, mint condition, 30K miles, year left on the mfr warranty for $12900 plus dealer fee of $475 plus TTL, and no BS.
As the guys here will tell you, it's all about the market. Any vehicle is only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. Right now all the sheep are running scared and are taking big hits on their large cars.
The media reinforces the panic with stories of how the "cool" people are going "green". The brainwashing leads people to make decisions which are not in their financial best interest. Dumping a SUV for half of what you owe and then buying a hybrid for over sticker is just dumb in my book. Yet lots of people are doing it.
The popular wisdom is powerful though. I know a well-to-do family who owns his and hers Hummers. A few years ago I would have said "Wow, they sure are rich and successful". Now I say "Wow, they sure are dumb for buying TWO of those beasts". It's all I can do to stop myself from driving south and beg Mack to sell me a Prius for MSRP and 2K ADM.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The Jipinator will explain. The 2004 Mazda MPV's MSRP was around $26k. The 2002 Sienna was probably close to the same. The only thing it had that the MPV LX did not was power sliding doors. I believe it was just an LE with a few option packages thrown in. I also recall the Sienna had a second row seat belt that had been gnawed in half by either a cat or a possum... something with sharp teeth. The dealership didn't say anything about fixing it until I brought it to their attention.
So, the 2 1/2 year old Sienna (apple) discounted cost was roughly the same as the 2004 MPV (apple)... all things considering. I suppose if I pushed it I could have gotten another grand or so off the Sienna. But... I wasn't that crazy about it.
Having hung out here for awhile, I'll pass on two (very likely useless) hints:
1) If you say anything negative regarding Deskman, the Wrath of Khan will befall you. He represents car sales in a fashion that most here seem to appreciate, at least judging from the last (& only) time I took issue with his approach. The hosts pile on as well.
2) If you get no (as in crickets chirping) response to a post, you've hit a nerve. You probably stated something that's absolutely true that many here wish weren't known and/or understood and/or even mentioned. You appear to have scored. These people aren't at all bashful about responding to insipid posts.
Enjoy your car.
Buying it, probably not so much, but at least you're less likey to get raped.
roadburner....you're not the first person that's told me they don't like Jake's dealerships (particularly the BMW dealership). On the other hand, I had a very pleasant experience with them. Even their service dept has been on top of things (not that I've needed to have much in the way of service, except for those few free maintenance occurrences that the car needed). Always had a free loaner ready. Always had my car washed and looking pristine when I picked it up.
mack....my friend wanted a coup (not a Camry). Obviously, the only coupe in the stable was underwhelming to her. It certainly looked sharp. Didn't drive nearly as well as it looked, though.
Maybe Toyota needs to put the Camry SE suspension under the Solara? Don't get me wrong. I've bought and helped buy a lot of Toyotas. It seems they got tremendous momentum in trying to overtake GM. And then, kind of let their guard down...across the board. I guess the marketplace has spoken considering the volume numbers released today. Maybe Toyota caught a little GM/Ford disease? That is, they were seduced by the margins on trucks and SUVs. Should have put their focus on the huge lead they have in the hybrid market.
If it's any consolation, my BMW dealer is overflowing with stock...cars and SUVs. So, it's not just limited to Ford, Toyota and GM (anyone think Chrysler will last more than another year or two? Shame on Daimler Benz!).
If anyone is in the market for any new car, and especially a truck/SUV (with the exception of 4 cl cars/hybrids), now's the time to buy, however. Just stay away from Wyler Nissan.
Gotta be tough on car sales people right now, if I had to guess.
I wonder what GM's sales look like for their Hybrid Tahoes/Yukons?
roadburner....you're not the first person that's told me they don't like Jake's dealerships (particularly the BMW dealership). On the other hand, I had a very pleasant experience with them.
To be fair, back in 1998 we shopped Jake Sweeney while looking for a new or late model 3 Series. We dealt with a very pleasant salesperson(can't recall her name), but the sticking point was that Sweeney's sales manager wanted to sell us a service loaner with 10K miles for only a couple of thousand less than what the BMW Store wanted for a new 3er that was actually better equipped than the loaner. In any event, it's kind of a moot point today. My local dealer Swope BMW now has first rate sales, service, and parts departments- if I buy a new or CPO BMW they will be the only dealer I consider.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Hope you all continue to enjoy each other. I thought you actually didn't like the extra fees/charges/shell game. I guess (as often happens) it all went way over my head. Some people actually don't like such stuff.
Now there is a post I can agree with. The sheep are panicked and just begging to be fleeced. People are spending $25,000. to save $400. bucks a year on gas, all so they can risk their life riding around in a sardine can.
Comments
Although, Performance Honda (and the Toyota/Scion store right next door) doesn't seem any better or worse than any other dealership regarding sales turnover. I do know that their management staff (GM, service manager, etc) seem to be fairly consistent. My sales guy said he'd been there since he graduated from Ohio State 18 months ago. He was very up front and told me he was into "bonus money" with the sale of the Accord. Don't know what that means, but he seemed happy to make a skinny deal.
Jipster....the NIssan dealership is part of a very large autogroup owned by Jeff Wyler....a long time dealer-owner. He's expanded into just about every brand with the exception of the high lines. He does have a Caddy dealer right next door to the Nissan dealer. But has a Kia dealership on the other side of the Caddy store. I've come to expect their way of doing business to be standard operating procedure. They don't like the informed buyer, at any of their stores. To get a good deal, you're going to have to grind them. They like keeping you at the table as long as they can. While I can do the "grind" routine, it's not my preferred way of doing business. My offer isn't going to change, no matter how long they try to keep me there.
Through the years, I've tried several times to deal with Wyler's stores, if for no other reason than to keep the other dealers honest. The results have always been the same....NO SALE! Their tactics may change a little, but they're still high pressure. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do your homework, you can bet they'll flog you. Honestly, I'm surprised they're as big as they are, given the way they do business. That just tells me they are more focused on the uninformed buyer....that's the customer they want....the payment buyer.
As yet another post script....I've not dealt with the Honda store my friend bought from before. I've done quite a bit of business for myself or family members at the Toyota store. I know the owner's daughter, but haven't seen her in awhile. Found out she's helping out with one of their stores in Columbus. I also know the GM at the Toyota store. I guess he saw me wandering around the Honda lot, and he gave me a call yesterday asking me what I was looking for. I informed him I was shopping for someone else...and she wanted an Accord.
He asked why I didn't mosey on over to look at a Camry.
gg-"Well, I did. No offense, but the Camry just wasn't her cup of tea. She wanted a coupe".
GM-"What about a Solara? They look like a Lexus."
gg-"Well, that's the problem. Solara also drives like a Lexus...kind of marshmellowy".
He laughed and asked me what she paid.
gg-"$200 over invoice, but I got some winter mats thrown in and she got the special finance rate".
GM-"You hit at the exact right time....last day of the quarter. They've got some dealer participation money in that car for the special financing. The mats cost us around $100. Plus, seems like we ate the marketing $ we pay to Toyota. Sounds like you got into their knickers for some of the holdback. You did good. You going to give them a good CSI?"
gg-"Not mine to give, but she was very happy with the deal. We (she) were treated very well. And, she likes the car. She pulled a 650 on her credit score. Don't know what finance did with HMC, but they got her the special rate. That was a very good thing. I told her to give everyone "excellent" on the survey."
GM-"Good! When are we going to sell you another Toyota?".
gg-"Well, you want a 2 year old pristine Tahoe on your lot? I've got one to trade."
GM-"No thanks. I'm overrun with new trucks that I can't sell. Don't need any more used ones, either. I'm going to have to take a good portion of my used stock to auction. Probably take a bath on them, too. It's going to be a really bad couple of months for my Used Car Manager. On the other hand, I'm selling all the used and new 4 bangers I can get my hands on. I'm the only one in town who's selling hybrids at sticker. I can't get enough of them. Everybody else is selling them over sticker. I might have to rethink our pricing, if I can get any more of them."
Wyler's early days... one Chevy store. Motto: "Cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country." Phone number in those days: 513.xxx.EGGS.
He's sure left that philosophy behind, right?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That tidbit of information may come in handy one day. Jeff Wyler has a Toyota dealership just across the river from Louisville in Clarksville Indiana. They advertise themselves as a "no haggle" dealership. Commercials on t.v talk about how much they value the customer and they will treat you right.
I don't know if Jeff Wyler owned that dealership 4 years ago when my wife and I visited, looking to buy a minivan. But, I do remember they wouldn't go down much in price, about $400, on a 2002 Sienna that listed for around $20k. I told them what we were wanting to pay, they didn't budge... so we walked. Glad we did to. As we ended up purchasing a brand new 2004 Mazda MPV (ZOOM ZOOM) for the same amount of money. Incidently our MPV has a birthday today... 4 years old !
Happy Birthday to my little baby... they grow up so fast on you.
1. the dealer messed up, and was to proud of the car, not willing to sell at market price.
2. the customer doesn't know what the market for the car is, asks for a stupid price, and gets dismissed.
I deal with a fair amount of people who come in and state right away, "I'm a good negotiator", then ask for a huge discount on a 135 convertible. A good negotiator goes home in a new car, a bad one doesn't.
That of course goes in both directions. That said, I see it all the time. Most people consider themselves an educated car consumer. I see that fact rear it's ugly head less than 3% of the time.
Good to see you around again. I guess you’ve been too busy for us. Maybe you’ve been boating, still the same one, I know you’ve been looking.
Anyway, I don’t move from my price either. Back in 88’ I was trying to buy an 86’ Grand Prix (this was before I had the 30 minute rule). I was probably at the table for more than an hour and was ready to leave when the SM comes out and says, “Mr. jmonroe, I’ve lowered my price for you three times already when are you going to raise your price once”. I knew I was working with a greenpea and the SM had him in training so I said, “do you or don’t you want to sell this car because that’s my price and I’m not raising it”. This is when he threw me a curve and said, “do you want to flip ”? I never heard that one before. I’ve told that tale here a couple of times so I’m not going to bore anyone with it again.
NO, I didn’t flip. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I have seen many used car lots lately that have nothing left on them but trucks and big cars, the little ones are all gone, unless they are obviously a POS. I have to think that auction prices for trucks and SUVs must be approaching zero. :surprise:
"On the other hand, I'm selling all the used and new 4 bangers I can get my hands on."
And, of course, with supply and demand as it is, the small cars have all taken a jump in value. It's almost funny to shop economy cars on CraigsList. People are offering up all sorts of run-down, miled-up Hondas and Toyotas, and asking premium prices for them. :sick:
Hard times ahead for the American car manufacturers... and the people who try to make a living selling their products. On the other hand, we haven't heard much from isellhondas. I would bet that he is so busy writing up fat deals that he has little time to spend here.
And Mac, he sells Toyota, right? What are the chances that he will find time to finish that story he started?
Which one? He has about a dozen from which to choose.
Isell might be taking some time off to rest up and cool down.
In a startup, there's never enough time, never enough money to do the things that really need to be done, never enough revenue. Still, I knew what I was getting myself into. Lots of traveling. Lot of hours. But, if we pull it off, I'm retired post haste. If not? Well, I'm working for another 20 years.
Boat's gone. Sold it just at the right time...right before gas prices went gonzo. Had my eyeballs on another one, and then "this oil stuff" happened. Now, when I get the time, I'm a passenger with some of my old boating buds. Not a bad way to go. But, even they are only on the water about 1/3 of the time they used to be. I figured my fillups for my old boat would be right around $1,200 if I had kept it. At those prices, I wouldn't have been using it all that much, if at all.
Can't really understand this runup in fuel prices. I've heard all the excuses. Hard to bite on any of them. The runnup was just way too steep, and happened way too quickly for this to be a simple "market correction". I'm afraid there's something much more nefarious at work, here.
But, I'm veering off topic.
Yes, Wyler started out in the boonies with a single Chevy store. As time went on, and there was consolidation of dealerships, Wyler expanded. His tag line ("cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country") has gone the way of his "folksy" manner of doing business. While I've not been to all of his stores, the ones I have visited in the last several years, all seem to subscribe to the sleazier side of the car biz. Personal bias perhaps, but I'd say his stores use the worst tactics I've seen in this area. But, they must work. He's one of the largest dealership groups around here.
Someone mentioned the two BMW stores here in Cincinnati. Personally, I bought mine from "Jake". I had a good purchasing experience with them. But, I know kyfdx got his from the "other" BMW STORE. Heard nothing but good things about them, too. "Jake" gave me the best deal on mine, however. More than one person has told me they'd never deal with Jake, though.
As I'm sure most here think, if you've done your homework, know the market for any car you're in the market for, no dealer is going to be able to "flog you". It's just a matter of how willing you are to play the games with the "grinder" dealerships to get a good deal.
I stand by my theory, the longer you volley, the longer you sit at the negotiation table, your offer is only going to go up. In general, if you make a good (non-ridiculous) offer, and stipulate you're only making one offer, you'll either have a deal, or you won't. Some will try to bump you, but then you're back to paying more if you get into that game.
Conversely, while I was able to secure a really good deal for my friend, in talking to our sales person, they're selling Fits at sticker. There aren't any hanging on the lots at any of the Honda stores around, either. I was half tempted to buy it myself. I saw one couple trying to buy the only one the store had on their lot. The couple wouldn't accept the fact that the price on the Fit wasn't negotiable. They got to the point where they said they were leaving and told the salesperson to call them when they were willing to negotiate. There was another couple kind of milling around the Fit at the same time. Literally, before the first young couple actually pulled out of the driveway onto the highway from the dealership, this other couple had walked up and told the sales person they'd take it....at MSRP, pending a test drive.
This couple knew the market for the Fit. It's popular (especially now). They obviously knew that stock was next to non-existent. They jumped on the opportunity to buy a very hot model in a very hot market for it.
I may be spending more time here, as time allows. Without hanging around by the river much anymore, or around Cumberland Lake, I don't need the Tahoe. My 3 series is almost out or warranty. If I could package both vehicles, I'd make a deal. Don't know for what. I took a drive in that new small Infiniti SUV (EX35). Very nice vehicle.
Hell, I was so impressed with my friend's new Accord, I may look at one of those, too.
So, maybe more stories on the "buyers" front line could be forthcoming.
End of the month leaves little time for posting. I'll finish the stories that are hanging in the next few days.
I doubt your friend at the Toyota dealer has any hybrids in stock to sell. All our Toyota stores in our region are sold out of Prius, Camry and Highlander hybrids.
Heck, I went 0 for 4 yesterday. Everyone I talked to wanted a Prius, or Highlander hybrid.
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,acl
That would be me. You might recall that I was the guy who was all set to pay cash for a CPO 540i Sport that Jake had on his BMW lot. My wife, son, and I spent 15 minutes walking around the lot AND the showroom and not once did anyone offer to help. To top things off, the one car I liked at the BMW Store was sold while I was being pointedly ignored by Jake Weeney's professional sales staff. I wrote a polite letter to Sweeney's used car sales manager detailing my bad experience and never received a reply.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
NADA says the only other years with new-vehicle losses were 1990, 1991 and 1995. This year, NADA says, net losses are averaging $136 per new vehicle, compared with a $61 average loss in the first four months of 2007. The figures include finance and insurance operations, which are profitable. Back in 2004, the average profit per vehicle was $176.
In 2007 total dealership net profit before tax as a percent of sales remained unchanged from 2006, at 1.5 percent, according to the NADA DATA report. Dollar profits gained about 3 percent. While the new-vehicle department operating profit continued to fall last year at the average store, below breakeven, used vehicles contributed 27 percent of operating profit in 2007, a 1 percent decline from 2006. Service and parts brought in 81 percent of operating profits, up 4 percent from 2006.
Heck, I went 0 for 4 yesterday. Everyone I talked to wanted a Prius, or Highlander hybrid.
Does Toyota make anything other than a hybrid? I thought the greenest automobile manufacturer in the universe stopped making regular vehicles years ago!
Then I heard that Toyota was off 20% in June and I almost fainted!
Maybe the car business is as bad as the media is saying. I'm certainly seeing more and more large vehicles out on front lawns these days. The dealers must be telling these folks to sell their gas guzzlers themselves. It's looks more and more like people trying to sell worthless stock after the crash of '29.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think people are just being irrational and hysterical. I'm sure (hope) that things will hit bottom soon and things will return to normal -- SUVs are worth a bit more money, and small cars are worth a bit less.
Yes, it certainly seems to be a bit crazy in that regard. I traded a 4-cyl Ford Contour when I bought my new Saturn Astra... the dealer gave me about $800 less than trade-in blue book for it, which was about what I expected for an ex-rental car with the driver's side power window mechanism broken and some other problems. What shocked me was that they listed it for $2000 more than dealer resale blue book, and it was gone within a month!
Congrats to whoever pulled that sale off....
Stay positive, and take time to build report, and do quality walk arounds, and demo's. You'll be fine.
Mack
In may we sold 118 used cars, june we sold 62. the economy and gas prices are killing the car business.
How is this comparison even close? if you said that you bought another 02 sienna for alot less then it might sound right, but seeing how you went to another brand, this comparison is apples to oranges. Also, were they equipped the same? come on jip!
Richard will be pleased to know you're covering for him. :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
DETROIT - General Motors Corp. outsells Toyota Motor Corp. in June to retain its traditional U.S. sales lead, even though GM says its sales dropped 18.2 percent for the month.
Toyota sales had fallen 21.4 percent for the month. Both companies were hurt by a sluggish economy and poor sales of trucks and sport utility vehicles.
GM on Tuesday reported selling 262,329 vehicles for the month, compared with Toyota's 193,234.
For the first half of the year, GM sales were down 16.3 percent compared with the year-ago period. Toyota sales were down 6.8 percent for the first six months of the year.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_sales
Price $18999 (original MSRP was about $20K)
Savings -$3000
Prep fee $1000
Delivery fee $800
More savings $2000
Electric fee $1200 (I'm getting sarcastic now)
Another fee $1000
Still another fee $1000
Additional savings -$2000
sales tax
registration
final out the door price
It really was insulting. I ended up buying from a different dealer, got an 06 Tundra 6 cyl, mint condition, 30K miles, year left on the mfr warranty for $12900 plus dealer fee of $475 plus TTL, and no BS.
As the guys here will tell you, it's all about the market. Any vehicle is only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. Right now all the sheep are running scared and are taking big hits on their large cars.
The media reinforces the panic with stories of how the "cool" people are going "green". The brainwashing leads people to make decisions which are not in their financial best interest. Dumping a SUV for half of what you owe and then buying a hybrid for over sticker is just dumb in my book. Yet lots of people are doing it.
The popular wisdom is powerful though. I know a well-to-do family who owns his and hers Hummers. A few years ago I would have said "Wow, they sure are rich and successful". Now I say "Wow, they sure are dumb for buying TWO of those beasts". It's all I can do to stop myself from driving south and beg Mack to sell me a Prius for MSRP and 2K ADM.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We went from 11 combined new and used sales in May to 19 combined new and used sales in June. :P
The Jipinator will explain. The 2004 Mazda MPV's MSRP was around $26k. The 2002 Sienna was probably close to the same. The only thing it had that the MPV LX did not was power sliding doors. I believe it was just an LE with a few option packages thrown in. I also recall the Sienna had a second row seat belt that had been gnawed in half by either a cat or a possum... something with sharp teeth. The dealership didn't say anything about fixing it until I brought it to their attention.
So, the 2 1/2 year old Sienna (apple) discounted cost was roughly the same as the 2004 MPV (apple)... all things considering. I suppose if I pushed it I could have gotten another grand or so off the Sienna. But... I wasn't that crazy about it.
1) If you say anything negative regarding Deskman, the Wrath of Khan will befall you. He represents car sales in a fashion that most here seem to appreciate, at least judging from the last (& only) time I took issue with his approach. The hosts pile on as well.
2) If you get no (as in crickets chirping) response to a post, you've hit a nerve. You probably stated something that's absolutely true that many here wish weren't known and/or understood and/or even mentioned. You appear to have scored. These people aren't at all bashful about responding to insipid posts.
Enjoy your car.
Buying it, probably not so much, but at least you're less likey to get raped.
mack....my friend wanted a coup (not a Camry). Obviously, the only coupe in the stable was underwhelming to her. It certainly looked sharp. Didn't drive nearly as well as it looked, though.
Maybe Toyota needs to put the Camry SE suspension under the Solara? Don't get me wrong. I've bought and helped buy a lot of Toyotas. It seems they got tremendous momentum in trying to overtake GM. And then, kind of let their guard down...across the board. I guess the marketplace has spoken considering the volume numbers released today. Maybe Toyota caught a little GM/Ford disease? That is, they were seduced by the margins on trucks and SUVs. Should have put their focus on the huge lead they have in the hybrid market.
If it's any consolation, my BMW dealer is overflowing with stock...cars and SUVs. So, it's not just limited to Ford, Toyota and GM (anyone think Chrysler will last more than another year or two? Shame on Daimler Benz!).
If anyone is in the market for any new car, and especially a truck/SUV (with the exception of 4 cl cars/hybrids), now's the time to buy, however. Just stay away from Wyler Nissan.
Gotta be tough on car sales people right now, if I had to guess.
I wonder what GM's sales look like for their Hybrid Tahoes/Yukons?
To be fair, back in 1998 we shopped Jake Sweeney while looking for a new or late model 3 Series. We dealt with a very pleasant salesperson(can't recall her name), but the sticking point was that Sweeney's sales manager wanted to sell us a service loaner with 10K miles for only a couple of thousand less than what the BMW Store wanted for a new 3er that was actually better equipped than the loaner. In any event, it's kind of a moot point today. My local dealer Swope BMW now has first rate sales, service, and parts departments- if I buy a new or CPO BMW they will be the only dealer I consider.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Hope you all continue to enjoy each other. I thought you actually didn't like the extra fees/charges/shell game. I guess (as often happens) it all went way over my head. Some people actually don't like such stuff.
I've grown. Thanks again.
This too will pass grasshopper. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
i will use that for my beavercreek beater. :shades:
I think Mr Toyoda will be calling Mack on to the carpet soon :surprise:
Mack you have lost face to Mr Toyodasan and have become a disgrace to the whole population of the emipre of the rising sun
We have cuban/reggaton/salsa bands :confuse:
hotdogs/hamburgers
pony
back in the 80s we had george forman , dusty rhodes / rick flair and the 72 dream team come in to sign autographs and hang out. :shades: