Boomchek, Where in Canada are you? I just toured around Lake Superior Last year on my bike and it was easily one of the most beautiful rides I have taken.
" You guys are a bunch of *&%*% thieves I cant believe you want X for that car!"
Well....quit being thieves! Put a price on a car. Whether it's being traded in or for sale it is worth the same amount. (give or take a few hundred for mileage, condition, etc). Then add in dealer profit if you're selling it and don't add in dealer profit if you're buying it. No other fees ever. Just car value then profit. (all your profit) no junk fees or add ons. Profit should be one number. And don't negotiate. If you have what buyer wants and feels price plus profit is fair he'll buy. If he complains, tell him to hit the bricks.
It's not that easy. Your perception of a 'fair price' is different than mine. Everything in life is negotiable, especially big ticket items. Cars, homes, boats, RVs.
Only a few hundred difference between trade in and Retail value? My shop spends about 1200 per car we take in. Also you have to consider that every customer wants a grand of two off. And we have to pay bills and employees. More like a few thousand difference.
Its ok.. I've been in the biz for 9 years. I do finance now, but thats why I got out of sales. You can only try to help people to get the best deal and have them turn around and call you a liar for so long. I used to try and educate them, but after all they have done 10 car transactions in their life. What would I know after thousands? Not everyone, but it was a daily occurance.
Well....quit being thieves! Put a price on a car. Whether it's being traded in or for sale it is worth the same amount. (give or take a few hundred for mileage, condition, etc).
Guys in the biz will say don't overprice your car if selling privately. No one will be interested. But, at dealerships the mark-up is sky high... up to 50%. Most of us here can handle the difference between the two. But, a large number of people see it as the dealership trying to rip them off.
So I saw this local story from the sales front lines and thought it might be of interest to this forum.... Apparently, a customer got a bit more than frustrated with his salesperson at a dealer in my area:
On average my mark up on new is between 4-8%. Thats lower than most everything you can buy. On used cars, if it books (trade-in) for lets say 10,000. We try to own it for 9,000(cust gets 8500) and will Retail it for a little less than book( Retail), say... 12,495. After all is said and done we will probably sell it for 11,500. Pay some commisions and we've cleared 2000 on the car. I can not recall a used car marked up 50% at any of the dealerships that I have worked.
Putting a car out for sale and then asking a price for it is thievery? I dont hold a gun to anyones head to buy nor do I have to justify my price to you...If you dont like the price for my goods you are free to leave...and leave your unkind comments to yourself.
If he complains, tell him to hit the bricks. If I ask someone to leave can you imagine the adverse PR I would get? All I can do is sit and smile and say thanks for stopping by in the midst of most tirades.
I certainly didn't say 200 to 300 profit. I said 200-300 difference between car A and car B, both being same make/model/year diff being mileage and condition.
I don't care if your profit is 10k. Just make it one number and add it to the actual value of the car for sale. No more doc fees, license fees, cleaning fees...stop all the nickel dime fees!! PROFIT plus the actual value of the car. Stick that price on the windshield and sell it without any further stupid fees.
If you bought gas for your vehicle and the attendant said that will be $32.00 (price on pump) plus electric to pump power fee, hose replacement fee, tip for the delivery driver and my commission. That comes to $42.76. That's what all the stupid add on fees feel like to a customer.
In many cases what you make is fine as long as the person paying is not made to feel stupid by dealers slicing and dicing what they want into a hundred little junk fees that still add up to PROFIT.
Maybe dealers got away with that with the financing public, but as cash or check writing public begins to prevail they don't like to be "fee-d" to death a dime at a time.
When talking about putting a price on a car, let's not forget that the government holds dealers accountable for their products. That means your trade must be in perfect shape or for the first 30-90 days the dealer is responsible for any and all repairs. plus they have employees to pay and all that stuff, a dealer should be able to make about 2,000 a car average at the end of the month. The problem is that it is like a game to beat the dealer. The game should be find a car you actually like! Then get yourself as good a deal as you can without trying to put someone out of business.
Unfortunately fees are a reality in today's world for many big ticket items, or services:
-car: doc, license, registration -houses: agent fees, mortgage broker fees, mortgage insurance fees, inspections, -plane tickets: gas surcharges, excess luggage, pillows and food (in some cases) -wheels and tires: tire levies, mounting, balancing, enviro fees, disposal fees, -electronics/computers: enviro disposal fees, set up, etc. -suits/tuxes: alterations, etc.....
Yes, it would be nice if all the prices had everything built in. It would be nice if we'd take it a step further and do it like most European countries and have taxes included in the prices too.
But then the competitor next door would advertise a bare bones price without any fees, extras, and get more customers. Consumers ALWAYS notice the lowest prices possible without reading the fine print or limitations.
Take for example our Dodge Ram special. We have decals on it saying $12000 off OR 0% financing. It's parked in front of our showroom. The OR is in normal sized letters not any smaller than the rest of the signage. And people still insist on getting both even though you can't get both. they have to do a double take to check if we're misleading them :confuse:
Other than the DMV fees. We have a $45 doc fee that every customer pays. Thats it. Unfortunately everyone has to pay tax, DMV fees etc. In NY we handle all the DMV and insurance processing for the cust. Thats what the 45 is for. We earn it.
I can not recall a used car marked up 50% at any of the dealerships that I have worked.
I did say marked up to as much as 50%... which I've seen. Your mark-up is around 33%, so not to far off. Your dealerships pricing system is reasonable though, and wouldn't scare someone off.
But do you see that we have to charge a significant mark up on used just so we can make a couple grand. And we wouldn't have to make a couple grand on used if we could make more on new.
Let see of the six used cars I have sold this month there was on average less then 1,200 dollars of profit on them. Those cars on average retailed for about 25,000 dollars so what is that about 5% markup on each car?
Citibank, or was it Goldman ? escapes me at the moment downgraded GM today to a sell.It was only at 13 but closed down to a new low at 11 1/2. Poor Ford is trading at 5. Reminds me of the Chrysler days. People thought at the time the government was floating them a loan because we couldn't let the third largest automaker go down the tubes. They managed to push it through congress under the guise of national security, they had a division that made assemblies used in tanks. Good management seems to be sadly lacking these days.
Bonus trivia to thwart team evil. Level = easy In sitting on a dock of the bay by otis, where did the singer state his home was ? No googling por favor.
The problem is that it is like a game to beat the dealer.
I wonder where that started? Where I come from if you start something you better be able to finish it. It took a while for the buyer to get onto a level field and now the buyer is the bad guy? Please note that I didn’t say the buyer should be disrespectful to the salesman because there is no excuse for that but to know how to fight fire with fire is a good thing.
The game should be find a car you actually like! Then get yourself as good a deal as you can without trying to put someone out of business.
I agree with buying what you like. As for not trying to put the dealer out of business, I doubt any buyer is capable of this. Most have been around longer than the buyers. When I buy a car I’m going after the best deal I can get. I give no thought of what’s fair for the dealer. He knows how to take care of himself now it’s my turn. If he doesn’t like my offer I’ll go to someone who will and I have. Very simple this car buying thing.
For the most part when the guy at the desk ok’s a deal he’s not hurting the owner or himself, it’s the salesman, who’s caught in the middle, who takes the hit. I will not take responsibility for that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Gig Harbor. Very close to Tacoma, WA I can remember this stuff, but not things my wife tells me to do, We have a rule in our house, if its three or more things to do, make a list
But do you see that we have to charge a significant mark up on used just so we can make a couple grand
Sure. I'm just saying if the mark up is too "significant" it will scare a lot of people off. Selling 3 cars at a total of $6k profit is better than selling 1 car at $4k profit... say over the course of a month.
Very nice town, My wife and I were looking to retire on the Olympic Peninsula in a few years. Love your neck of the woods. Changing subject so as not to offend he whose name must not be spoken.Though I am not in auto sales, doesn't it seem that in the last 10 years a plethora of fee's in which the saleman has no participation at all but which benefit the dealership and/or corporate and effectively raise the price to the consumer have evolved. Translation, same work lower gross and with the annual christmas pay cut lower net ? Just my take.
Bonus trivia question number two, level = easy still All the leaves are brown, and the sky is grey.
Let see of the six used cars I have sold this month there was on average less then 1,200 dollars of profit on them.
We've been through this before, but it would depend on what your definition of profit is. If you are charging $2,000, to the price you paid for a trade in, for a 100 point inspection, oil change and new wiper blades, when the true cost of this to the dealership is closer to $400, then the profit margin goes back up to 30% or more. Throw in an overpriced warranty and it takes another markup jump. So, if a dealership tells me they have $25k in the car they are selling, I would take that with a grain of salt.
Oh ye of little faith and or loyalty. Well you'll have to fight your own battle aginst the forces of evil. I turn the gauntlet over to you . "I doubt it.... maybe "jump" ship to another car site. Though I've been a part of the off-topic banter, it really has gotten out of hand. I find myself skipping over a lot of posts, which I usually don't do. I guess I just can't relate to all you old timers (geezers) stories of the olden days and musical instruments. "
I commend you for your amazing insight into someone you know not at all. Jump ship? Should I figure where else you post? Don't really want to, I kind of like the people who post here.No problem if you can't relate to us old geezers. Please relate onto us your fond memories of the "classic" bands like ac/dc and def leopard. No wonder your generation makes remakes. Any way ,thanks for the warm welcome......
Something about teaching your grandmother and eggs. Please no geezer clue him in. Appreciation to the rest of the forum. Thank you all.
There was a lot of built up grass. Very thick. The line kept breaking on me so I put a Polycut head on it and voila! I went to town with it. Yes, I did start the motor which is an easy2start patented starting system. No more throwing my back out pulling on the starter core 20 times before the thing starts. On this one you put the 1/0 switch to 1, close the throttle switch, prime the bubble twice, and pull the cord firmly but not jerking it. I told my wife even she could do it. I showed Mackabee III how to start it and he was impressed! (He was probably thinking; "Great, another tool for me to do work with." ) Anyway and update on my condition. I had the scan this morning. They were rather busy so I had to wait about 30 minutes before they put me in the padded room and injected me with the radioactive glucose solution. I'm glowing green as I write this. No need for artificial lighting. After 90 minutes they ran me through the CT scan tube and that took about 30 minutes. I got home and I was starved. Luckily my wife took the afternoon off and made me a delicious turkey and egg sandwich on wheat. Oh, while I was waiting to go to the padded room I was filling out a questionnaire which I do every time. Under the questionnaire is my chart with all the previous scans. The last one showe NED (no evidence of disease) however, there is a "cyst" on my liver, and several nodules in my lungs. These nodules are less than 6mm in size and my doc doesn't think it's cancer. I'll have the results in a couple of weeks but I'm feeling confident I will be alright. Mackabee
I thought so too until last couple of weeks when we had an 07 and an 08 traded in. I drove the 08 around the block and it has a very nice interior. I didn't care for the sunshade as it looks flimsy and might fall on you while driving. The outside looks good too. The visibility is something else. I had a hard time looking back through the rear view mirror, it looks like you are looking at a tunnel. Side visibility was ok, but the front of the vehicle is scary. I had to move the seat up vertically to see the road as the front makes it difficult to judge your distance especially while backing up or turning close to other vehicles. It drove really nice and was very quiet. I don't know why the people traded them in. I know the 07 was a navy girl and she bought an 09 Camry SE V6. Mack
My wife used to watch me mow the lawn. About 15 years ago when I was still in shape and would take my shirt off to impress the neighbors. It used to turn her on.
It happens. Last year a saleman was shot to death at Gloucester Toyota in Gloucester VA. The motive? the salesman was having an affair with the assailant's wife. He waited in his pick up truck until the salesmen were out of their sales meeting and then confronted the man. The salesman started to run when he saw the gun and was shot in the back.
We normally mark used cars at 2-3k over our cost. Some suckers fell for the 08 Prius with 7600 hundred miles today. They bought it for $26,990.00 when this car retails for $23,909.00 (package two). I wouldn't have the heart to do that to a customer. Someone else did. :sick:
And I will say again we don't do that. On our used Land Rovers we do the 140 point certified inspection which costs a couple of hundred bucks. If any wear items are more then half worn we replace them. A full set of brakes and tires on one of these vehicles is a couple of thousand dollars but there aren't any made up charges.
All vehicles get new wiper blades oil change and a full detail so if they don't need brakes or tires everything costs some where around $400 charged to the sales department.
Not sure what it actually cost service maybe $250 or so.
Still no where near 30% markup.
I don't even know why I argue you with you anymore you are so negative.
Comments
and chairman of the welcoming committee of the delurkers :shades:
that, or he is still figuring out why the string keeps getting short
Where in Canada are you? I just toured around Lake Superior Last year on my bike and it was easily one of the most beautiful rides I have taken.
It's nice out here too.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Well....quit being thieves! Put a price on a car. Whether it's being traded in or for sale it is worth the same amount. (give or take a few hundred for mileage, condition, etc).
Then add in dealer profit if you're selling it and don't add in dealer profit if you're buying it. No other fees ever. Just car value then profit. (all your profit) no junk fees or add ons. Profit should be one number. And don't negotiate. If you have what buyer wants and feels price plus profit is fair he'll buy. If he complains, tell him to hit the bricks.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's to bad we can't call people dumb @$$&$ for not understanding simple business.
Not everyone, but it was a daily occurance.
Guys in the biz will say don't overprice your car if selling privately. No one will be interested. But, at dealerships the mark-up is sky high... up to 50%. Most of us here can handle the difference between the two. But, a large number of people see it as the dealership trying to rip them off.
part 1
part 2
I'm not in the car business, but geeze, the deal couldn't have been that bad!!!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Not much you can do when dealing with a mentally unstable person other than what they did.
Putting a car out for sale and then asking a price for it is thievery? I dont hold a gun to anyones head to buy nor do I have to justify my price to you...If you dont like the price for my goods you are free to leave...and leave your unkind comments to yourself.
If he complains, tell him to hit the bricks.
If I ask someone to leave can you imagine the adverse PR I would get? All I can do is sit and smile and say thanks for stopping by in the midst of most tirades.
I certainly didn't say 200 to 300 profit. I said 200-300 difference between car A and car B, both being same make/model/year diff being mileage and condition.
I don't care if your profit is 10k. Just make it one number and add it to the actual value of the car for sale. No more doc fees, license fees, cleaning fees...stop all the nickel dime fees!! PROFIT plus the actual value of the car. Stick that price on the windshield and sell it without any further stupid fees.
If you bought gas for your vehicle and the attendant said that will be $32.00 (price on pump) plus electric to pump power fee, hose replacement fee, tip for the delivery driver and my commission. That comes to $42.76. That's what all the stupid add on fees feel like to a customer.
In many cases what you make is fine as long as the person paying is not made to feel stupid by dealers slicing and dicing what they want into a hundred little junk fees that still add up to PROFIT.
Maybe dealers got away with that with the financing public, but as cash or check writing public begins to prevail they don't like to be "fee-d" to death a dime at a time.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
-car: doc, license, registration
-houses: agent fees, mortgage broker fees, mortgage insurance fees, inspections,
-plane tickets: gas surcharges, excess luggage, pillows and food (in some cases)
-wheels and tires: tire levies, mounting, balancing, enviro fees, disposal fees,
-electronics/computers: enviro disposal fees, set up, etc.
-suits/tuxes: alterations, etc.....
Yes, it would be nice if all the prices had everything built in. It would be nice if we'd take it a step further and do it like most European countries and have taxes included in the prices too.
But then the competitor next door would advertise a bare bones price without any fees, extras, and get more customers. Consumers ALWAYS notice the lowest prices possible without reading the fine print or limitations.
Take for example our Dodge Ram special. We have decals on it saying $12000 off OR 0% financing. It's parked in front of our showroom. The OR is in normal sized letters not any smaller than the rest of the signage. And people still insist on getting both even though you can't get both. they have to do a double take to check if we're misleading them :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I did say marked up to as much as 50%... which I've seen. Your mark-up is around 33%, so not to far off. Your dealerships pricing system is reasonable though, and wouldn't scare someone off.
Let see of the six used cars I have sold this month there was on average less then 1,200 dollars of profit on them. Those cars on average retailed for about 25,000 dollars so what is that about 5% markup on each car?
If any you guys are reading right now,
What is the difference in the fron end gross margins from back in the 80's - 90's compared to today?
Do you even see a difference in it?
I am not including fee's...
also is there a difference in the back end of deals.
My perception is that dealers were making a lot more money than they are now.
GP
You wouldn't have to, but I suspect you would still try to - you are in business to make money after all.
But as a 'new car buyer' I'm happy with the way the system works at the moment.
Bonus trivia to thwart team evil. Level = easy
In sitting on a dock of the bay by otis, where did the singer state his home was ? No googling por favor.
I wonder where that started? Where I come from if you start something you better be able to finish it. It took a while for the buyer to get onto a level field and now the buyer is the bad guy? Please note that I didn’t say the buyer should be disrespectful to the salesman because there is no excuse for that but to know how to fight fire with fire is a good thing.
The game should be find a car you actually like! Then get yourself as good a deal as you can without trying to put someone out of business.
I agree with buying what you like. As for not trying to put the dealer out of business, I doubt any buyer is capable of this. Most have been around longer than the buyers. When I buy a car I’m going after the best deal I can get. I give no thought of what’s fair for the dealer. He knows how to take care of himself now it’s my turn. If he doesn’t like my offer I’ll go to someone who will and I have. Very simple this car buying thing.
For the most part when the guy at the desk ok’s a deal he’s not hurting the owner or himself, it’s the salesman, who’s caught in the middle, who takes the hit. I will not take responsibility for that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
Where in Washington j?
I can remember this stuff, but not things my wife tells me to do,
We have a rule in our house, if its three or more things to do, make a list
Sure. I'm just saying if the mark up is too "significant" it will scare a lot of people off. Selling 3 cars at a total of $6k profit is better than selling 1 car at $4k profit... say over the course of a month.
Bonus trivia question number two, level = easy still
All the leaves are brown, and the sky is grey.
We've been through this before, but it would depend on what your definition of profit is. If you are charging $2,000, to the price you paid for a trade in, for a 100 point inspection, oil change and new wiper blades, when the true cost of this to the dealership is closer to $400, then the profit margin goes back up to 30% or more. Throw in an overpriced warranty and it takes another markup jump. So, if a dealership tells me they have $25k in the car they are selling, I would take that with a grain of salt.
"I doubt it.... maybe "jump" ship to another car site. Though I've been a part of the off-topic banter, it really has gotten out of hand. I find myself skipping over a lot of posts, which I usually don't do. I guess I just can't relate to all you old timers (geezers) stories of the olden days and musical instruments. "
I commend you for your amazing insight into someone you know not at all. Jump ship? Should I figure where else you post?
Don't really want to, I kind of like the people who post here.No problem if you can't relate to us old geezers. Please relate onto us your fond memories of the "classic" bands like ac/dc and def leopard. No wonder your generation makes remakes. Any way ,thanks for the warm welcome......
Something about teaching your grandmother and eggs. Please no geezer clue him in. Appreciation to the rest of the forum. Thank you all.
That would be jipster, jmonroe, and Richard. The three amoebas.
Me, I'm just a spring chicken. Just turned 32 last December, xmas day.
Anyway and update on my condition. I had the scan this morning. They were rather busy so I had to wait about 30 minutes before they put me in the padded room and injected me with the radioactive glucose solution. I'm glowing green as I write this. No need for artificial lighting.
Oh, while I was waiting to go to the padded room I was filling out a questionnaire which I do every time. Under the questionnaire is my chart with all the previous scans. The last one showe NED (no evidence of disease) however, there is a "cyst" on my liver, and several nodules in my lungs. These nodules are less than 6mm in size and my doc doesn't think it's cancer. I'll have the results in a couple of weeks but I'm feeling confident I will be alright.
Mackabee
Mack
Mack
Mack.
trivia question level=medium hard
"He didn't notice that the lights had changed."
Mack
Sure---you and my grandmother. :shades:
Richard
:sick:
Mack
Richard
Richard
All vehicles get new wiper blades oil change and a full detail so if they don't need brakes or tires everything costs some where around $400 charged to the sales department.
Not sure what it actually cost service maybe $250 or so.
Still no where near 30% markup.
I don't even know why I argue you with you anymore you are so negative.