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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Exactly!!!!!!
Just don't get caught doing it! :surprise:
GP
Sounds like you were at a used car dealer or this was years ago. First of all no body will smoking anything ( not in the showroom or in front of the customers) at all.
Also sounds like a used car place becasue it always easy to "over allow" for a trade on a used car becuase there is more mark up.
GP
As a salesperson, I could care less if you get a great deal or not. It's my job to convince you that your getting a great deal. As long as your happy enough to move forward.
While were at it, I could care less if you have a great experience with me or not. If you don't like my price, walk your [non-permissible content removed] out. I've got plenty of cars, and plenty of other customers.
This business is all about perception!
GP
Do you work and get a salary or an hourly wage? What if the boss came in one day and said, I can get someone to work for half the pay for the next few weeks.
Go home, things are slow and Market forces are such that I don't need to pay you that amount any more, and I as a boss am not responsible for you making a descent wage.
I am saying go ahead, fight for the best deal you can get, but if I was a dealer, I'd have to be in a really bad situation, to sell a car and gross 3% profit margin. Why would I do it to make a sale, that could upset my regular customers if they heard about it? 3% gross might leave me with less than 1% profit, I'd be better off investing the money from my dealership in government bonds. I am not saying you need to know how investments work or how a dealership operates, I am just saying, don't be surprised if 2 big guys come over and throw you out the door.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yeh, at least they have each other
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Also sounds like a used car place becasue it always easy to "over allow" for a trade on a used car becuase there is more mark up.
It was 1982 and I was leasing a brand new Olds Cutlass from a Ford dealership. Andy, the cigar smoking salesman was leasing new cars and worked used cars...that's why he was in the shack and the new Ford showroom was a few feet away.
Giving me $1000 was not perception, in those days I was trying to save every dollar I could and I spent a lot of time shopping around. Today, dealerships are too specialized, Andy was a wildman but and I didn't trust him at all...he was a character but he had his contacts and there won't be any Andy's out there any more.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I usually do walk out of these dealerships. You can sense when they don't really care. I remember a Nissan dealership, I wanted to try an X-Terra. The sales guys were having there own conversation and I was intruding. I took a pamphlet, which he leaned over to give me, and said goodbye. Today, they would probably be falling all over me.
Another salesguy liked to duck out every chance he had to get a cigarette. One day we came in for our appointment and he was talking to a friend (I assume, they were joking and laughing). We were 20 minutes late getting started. I would have to be pretty certain I wanted that car and his price would have to be extremely good for me to want to buy a car from him, even though he was a nice guy.
I just want a straight business transaction. Give me your best price and don't play games because I have done my homework. I'll try for less on the new one and get you to come up on the trade. If I sense any game playing at all I am out of there, you might have lots of waiting customers but there's lots of dealerships around too!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm not in the biz, though I have sold about 6 cars privately (same thing), but I don't think the word "happy" would be an accurate description to a sales manager when he accepts a skinny deal. Probably "reluctantly accepted" to move another unit, under the thinking better to sell one than none. The salesmanager that sold me my Mazda MPV four years ago sure didn't look too happy after I clubbed him like a baby seal (on price). :sick:
Why stop at $500 dollars. Lets do $1800 dollars, that’s only $360 dollars a year for 5 years, $30 dollars a month, a mere $1 a day. Anyone who’s working and can afford a new car can handle $1 a day. Even I could afford that but I won’t. Not even $500(28 cents a day); because everything has a value.
You’re a businessman, how often do you pay more than what something is worth? I have to think if you did you wouldn’t be in business very long.
As for being “a mean, lonely old curmudgeon”, I’ve corrected that by ensuring I’m not paying too much for a car. :P
BTW, it's "carmudgeon", since were car guys you should have gotten that one right. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I always pay what it is worth to me - taking into account, it's value, whether I can get it for less somewhere else, I might pay extra to support my local retailer, I might pay extra to get more useful information (pay more for running shoes or a computer if they are knowledgeable about the product). Won't pay less if I have to buy it at Wal-Mart.
I don't sell cars. What I sell I sell for the lowest price around, my customers (retail and the public) like that and appreciate us, and I have to make a descent profit or none of us will make money or get value for our dollar. I wouldn't risk the dollars in my business if I can make more investing it in bonds. You are entitled to brow beat, club dealers like a baby seal, or whatever, but I don't want or need that kind of customer and don't have the patience to deal with them.
I am going to tell you about a car dealer in my next post and it explains things well.
Really liked the "Carmudgeon" line though!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
He decided instead of tying up his money like this, he would make a new business. Let's say you wanted a 2004 Camry in silver with certain equipment. Well, he would find you that car, he'd have a mechanic check it out completely, get a safety check, guaranty it for one year. His business grew and many people would tell other people and many would come back for their next car. He does well with people who don't have the time to look for themselves, or aren't knowledgeable about cars. Because he knows the ropes the car might actually cost the buyer less, even though his commission is built into the price.
He says, then you get the guy who says, so you want $12,000 for this Camry...well I'll buy it if you knock another $1,000 off the price. And he says, "Sure we can do that, which part of the plan can you do without, the mechanic checking it over, the safey inspection, or the one year warranty"
I agree, make the best deal you can, but don't expect to come out ahead if you want to club everyone over the head like a baby seal.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
These days more of the former and less of the latter.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yes
Yes
No
No
Maybe
Only with the lights out
If your dumb enough I will
Yes the Tundra does suck
No
Yes
Yes
No
I know the stock dropped thats why I bought 500 shares
Yes
No
Yes
OK that should have me all caught up.
If you have 1 million in bonds getting 4%, thats $40,000 a year.
If you sell 100 cars a month with only a $400 profit each, thats $40,000 a month
Welcome back buddy!!!!!
I have a good story that just happened about a hour ago so it is fresh and if the customer reads it good luck to him.
I have this guy come in and he wants to trade a 2003 Altima for a new one. He says he owes nothing on it but... There is always a but. He says he paid cash for it 3 weeks ago and doesn't feel safe in it. Oh it also has 70k on the clock.
He says he paid $6500 I say OK show him a New Altima which is what he now wants. We drive the new car and everything is perfect....
I go to the desk and get numbers.... Well his 3 week old car has check engine, brake light, and air bag light on. It drives very rough and you can tell it needs breaks, alihnment, tires, and God knows what else. I offer him $4000... Oh did I mention the car fax report has 3 accidents on it. :sick:
I am at sticker on the new Altima. He says "thats not enough for my trade".... I go you just told me you paid $6500 what were you expecting..... he says" I want $6500, that is what I paid 3 weeks ago.... I haven't driven it the 3 weeks" RIGHT?????? So I show him the car fax and everything that it needs. Nope he still wants $6500 and a $2000 off a new Altima. I say Ok
Have to go
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
If you sell 100 cars a month with only a $400 profit each, thats $40,000 a month
I'm no fiancial whiz, but you have to invest more than a million for decent sized dealership to sell 100 cars a month.
Plus out of the $40k monthly gross profit you have to pay out your rent, staff, advertising, franchise fees, equipment, inventory, and so on....
You'd need about 10 sales people on average to sell 100 cars/month. Pay them each $4k/month ($400/car commision) and there goes all of your $40k profit.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
$40,000 a month GROSS. Now deduct, salary, interest, rent, telephone, advertising, maintenance, etc etc. I'll be very lucky to clear $5,000 from that.
But, I might also be a GM or Ford or Chrysler dealer who will be very lucky to stay in business and not lose everything. So, would I take my $40,000 a year (or in a descent year in the stock market get 10% or $120,000 a year and do what I want to do...golf, winter in Florida, etc. or hope I clear $5000 or even $10,000 a month ($60,000 - $120,000 a yr.) selling 100 cars a month if times are good).
I am not a financial person and I know very little about accounting, but I know there is no thrill like owning your own business when it does well, but there is a huge responsibility and always risk that goes along with it. I'd invest the money and retire....who needs people coming in and clubbing me like a baby seal.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes
No
Thanks, I was staying up nights wondering when those questions would get answered.
Welcome back!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have had people in my office closed at a rate and payment with GAP and a warranty, and while visiting with them I may find out that they have a child in the Military or be a Veteran themselves, and after finding that out I have cut the rate or warranty price. Not because I had to but because imo they as veteran or the parent of one they have earned a break.
Or maybe you are just a truly nice person who deserves a break.
Now if you are an [non-permissible content removed] hole who thinks the best deal comes from being loud and obnoxious and branding all people in my industry as cheats and thieves then I am going to bare down, put my game face on and as Jmonroe like to say all the time, try to "club you like a baby seal" because by you actions thats what you have earned.
If you are (not you old farmer, I know your good people) one of those who thinks he who talks loudest wins, try being nice sometime, it may suprise you.
Darn, we just had an F&I guy here a few weeks ago but that guy burned himself out in no time. :surprise: Being an F&I guy must involve a lot of heat.
Oh well, you lose one and you gain one but you were here first.
Welcome back.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I have no idea, we have just started getting 2009's in the last month or so. I would guess this time next year.
Keep in mind I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the product side. I have a hard enough time keeping up with all the changes in the lending world.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Are you saying that they stop production on 2009 Fords before 2009 even begins? That's some major weird stuff.
When I bought my 2008 eclipse in Jan. 2008 I thought the dealer was lying when he told me that the 2008s were no longer being made. I almost walked away because I assumed he was telling me anything to avoid ordering from the factory.
In the old days they produced the latest model year up to May if IRC.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
" I am saying go ahead, fight for the best deal you can get, but if I was a dealer, I'd have to be in a really bad situation, to sell a car and gross 3% profit margin. Why would I do it to make a sale, that could upset my regular customers if they heard about it? 3% gross might leave me with less than 1% profit, I'd be better off investing the money from my dealership in government bonds. "
Well not currently. There's this fear premium that has been built into t-bills. Current rates are:
.3-Month 0.000 01/22/2009 0.83 / .84 0 / -.000
That would be .84%. Of course that's better than last week when they were negative.
But I get your point.
" the dealer won't be around when you need servicing if we all paid 3% over cost price "
kyfdx replied:
" Not really worried about everyone else.. The dealer can lose money on me... I'll be okay with it.. and take my chances on service, later... "
Congratulations on the purchase of your new 2009 H1 Hummer. In the glove box you will find your owner's manual and service schedule....
In Arabic. ok,exception to the rule.
"As a salesperson, I could care less if you get a great deal or not. It's my job to convince you that your getting a great deal. As long as your happy enough to move forward.
While were at it, I could care less if you have a great experience with me or not. If you don't like my price, walk your [non-permissible content removed] out. I've got plenty of cars, and plenty of other customers. "
Sincerely hope your rant is over but someone needs to find their happy place. It is a tough market. But my respect will go to those that respect their customer. I am glad that you have plenty of other cars and plenty of other customers. In good times we can blow off the strokers and in tough times we have to suck it up. Good sales to you but mean spiritedness has never provided in my book.To the other salesmen in this forum I say, good attitude, each day at a time. Take mini's but make a profit. Numbers will count. Never participate in management's silliness that takes you away from sales. You are running your own business, maximize your time. It will get better and the kindness you have shown customers you have sold to that are happy will produce dividends. If any other salesman can succeed with poor customer satisfaction reports I'd be interested to your feedback. To retail : I think this was a rant. If not d shall be blown out quite quickly. My alternative analysis, he lacks the experience to have a clue.
"
What a guy. Reminds me of a few situations I had before with unreasonable customers '
Most good salemen wear their heart on their sleeve. Honesty is given and expected in exchange. We have to make a profit, but given the benefit of the doubt we'll take it out of bs charges. Abuse us and you're on your own. I am grateful (rather like the Dead , no? to the good salesmen I have met on this forum. Some bad ones but no worries, they won't be here in 3 years.
Apologies, this is funny, I don't care who you are. In today's environment any humor is appreciated. Warning if you are easily offended, go away, far far away.
Sparky, I might be confused, but you did state if he sold 100 cars a month and made $400 on each one he would make $40,000. You didn't subtract his expenses.
If you mean return on revenue (and I did say I am not an accountant or even a bookeeper) you might mean he bought the business for a million dollars and is paying it off at $200,000 a year or $20,000 a month but he will still receive $40K a month if he sells 100 cars at $400 each. Still a stretch when you include expenses.
Now, I think you are saying he is selling some cars at $400 each when he is clubbed like a baby seal, but on others he is going to make $4000. First, it is my experience that the guy who buys the car with the $4000 profit will be an easier sell than the $400 profit....he's a reasonable sane individual that realizes a business has to make a profit to survive. It isn't worth my reputation to sell a car for cost or to make a tiny profit, and if it gets back to my $4000 profit customer, I will lose him. The $400 customer will buy his next car from the cheapest dealer anyway, so I wouldn't chance it. The only way I'd sell him a car with a skinny profit is if it was on my lot for a year, I couldn't get rid of it, it was replaced by a new model, I needed to make a quota. I won't do it because he is beating me up like a baby seal.
You are in business for yourself and you probably realize you can have low profit if you are doing volume, but few car dealers are going to do enough volume to make that up. Fair prices, good service, good sales staff, are the dealers best hope.....giving cars away and getting beaten up and you won't last.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thank you Duke, a little humor is always appreciated, especially when it is on topic. I like the line about his Lexus is just really a Camry.
We once were looking at refrigerators. I saw one that looked pretty good and the price was good. I said I wanted to look around a bit more, this was the first store we came to. He said, "There aren't too many left, I hope we are sold out by the time you come back". He might have meant he hoped he hadn't sold out when we came back. Might have been a guffaw moment. Anyway, his comment didn't impress me and we did not go back!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
.3-Month 0.000 01/22/2009 0.83 / .84 0 / -.000
That would be .84%. Of course that's better than last week when they were negative.
But I get your point.
Yeh Duke, I had heard about that and thought about it as I wrote my reply. Let's say this, Invest your million in the stock market today and it could be worth 2 million 5 years from now when markets recover....we hope. Better than earning $60,000 a year.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What happens in that case today sales people?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Not sure when the 2010 Fusion will appear on dealer lots, but if you want to see pictures of it check out;
2010 Ford Fusion
Have fun! Looks good, hope Ford is around long enough to make them.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You were missed.
Thanks for explaining "return on revenue". I guess I know what you mean but I didn't know it was called that, but then again I don't have formal training in accounting or bookeeping. I do appreciate you explaining it - learn something almost every day.
Using the $500,000 example you have used, and assuming I sell a car to Mr. Baby Seal Clubber, I would be lucky to make 3% profit, or $15,000, GROSS profit.
I still pay my 10 salespeople (they'll have to learn to live on about $600 a month), office staff, receptionist, rent, upkeep, advertising, and I'll still come out losing money on the sale. So, I am supposed to make it up in the service department and maybe the used car lot? Oh yes, I forgot, some people will buy a car and I'll make $4,000 on those. I just wouldn't do it (unless it is a car I need to get rid of), I'd send him down the road to put someone else out of business.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Post on!!
The correct terminology is "Return On Sales" or ROS. Its also known as "operating profit margin".
Return on Revenue (ROR) is net income divided by revenue. So you have to deduct any operating expenses from that $50K profit to get ROR. So if you have $45K in operating expenses then your ROR is 1% (($50,000-$45,000)/$500,000).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D