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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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I am not exactly sure what GM said but what it sounds like to me is,
When a dealer has a left over, last years model on their lot they have to buy it out with rebates to dealer. For example two years ago we had a left over 2005 350Z that we couldn't get rid of (remember I live in new england)... we had to buy it out. We bought it at invoice minus hold back and the last incentive (I think it was $2500). I remember it being winter time and we sent it to auction down in Florida and the dealer made $1800 after expenses...
I hope that sheds some light on your question.
GP
Wouldn't that book be about you :surprise:
GP
And I don't feel that this is any new mind set.
Story 1:
Guy looking for an Accord, comes and drives it, then brings family in to drive it again, then we go to pick up his wife on the demo drive...... long story short he's gotta think about it blah blah blah, then he buys it at another dealer cause it was something like few hundred cheaper. But he says "Thanks for your time, you're a good salesman" whatever..................
He comes to see me a week later complaining about the alignment on it. I told him to go to his selling dealer to get it fixed.
He went back and got the alignment done 2 times, with him still being unstatisfied even though the car was fine (our service spoke with his dealer's service dept). Then he came to our store and tried to get alignment done here too, to which they said the would but we'd charge him $100 or whatever it cost. He wasn't happy, and I wasn't gonna spend another minute with him. I'm glad he didn't buy from me as he would have been a pita.
Story 2:
A guy is looking at a new Accord. Drives the V6, drives the 4 banger. Goes to another dealer and drives both the V6 and 4 cylinder model again. Comes back and wants to buy it. Drives the 4 banger again. I ask him if he wants to drive the V6, he says no.
He grinds us down, we throw in free oil changes and what not, and make a whopping $50 gross profit on the deal.
A week later he comes in and wants to return the car and get a V6. Sorry pal no can do. He says the 4 isn't powerful enough, and that customer is always right, and we're obligated to do what he wants.
Mgr says sure, we'll take yours on a trade in and sell you a V6. Price difference is $8k (depreciation plus 4 cyl/V6 difference). He doesn't understand why he can't just retunr it at full price. We aksed him if he had a choice to buy a new Accord with 0 mileage or a titled Accord with 100 miles that someone returned that's got warranty time running on it for the same price which one would he choose?
Obviously him being so stingy he would want thousands off if we'd try to sell him a one week old used returned Accord, so hence the price difference. He's unhappy and says he'll sue. Mgr says go ahead. I reminded him that he drove both versions twice, and I offered him a third drive to which he didn't want.
Anyways he leaves, I hear nothing except a lousy survey of course, and a call 4 months later when he asks me to hook him up because the free oil change we gave him doesn't include a car wash, and the service want to charge him extra $5 for car wash. He asks me to hook him up and do him a favor. I told him sorry pal, you're out of luck. "We gave you a free oil change and nothing more". Now if he wouldn't cause me so much grief I would have gladly hooked him up. But for being stingy tightwad, slamming me on the survey, and giving me grief over returning the car why would I want to hook him up with anything?
Story 3:
Guy applies for credit. Has lousy beacon, doesn't pay his bills, and has very high demands about what he wants. The finance office work hard to get him approved, we make appointments for him to come in, but he doesn't, doesn't return phone calls. He argues with everyone over the phone (hey buddy, your interest rate reflects your credit rating) eventually comes in but doesn't want this car, doesn't want that car. He wants $8k for an old Exploder he drives and owes coincidentally $8k on, that's worth a $1k on a good day. We try and work with him for about a month, and spend countless hours trying to help him. He eventually goes and buys a car at another dealer. He's a real picky kinda guy.
He comes to see our servce dept a week later with a car he bought elsewhere and when i see him he tells me he's unhappy with the car he got. I asked him why he didn't take it to serivce dept at the selling dealer but he says he's not happy with them. (no surpise there, he's unhappy with everyone).
Now he's asking me what he should say to help him unwind the deal he made at the other place and return the car he bought over there.
He's asking me what's the best way to do it, but not so that he can buy a car from me, just because he doesn't like the car, and thinks I'm his auto tips insider.
Now when did I become a free personal advisor and life coach to a guy that's wasted about a month of my time, my manager's time, and was rude to my coworkers and managers when we went out of our way to help him.
Another salesguy that also dealt with him here told him never to come back here again.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I may have already told this story, but I'll go ahead and give the abridged version.
I worked with a man who was very nice and was interested in a vehicle for his wife. This was when I was selling Nissans. He told me that he would come back another day with his wife. We had gotten along very well.
A Saturday rolls around and I greet a family at the door. I quickly realize that this is the same nice guy. I thought everyone in the family would be as nice. I greeted them heartily and welcomed them to the dealership. The wife cuts me off and says that she wants to drive a loaded Murano, Quest and Pathfinder. I try to clarify what she means by "loaded". It was like I had hit a switch. She immediately turned into super biatch and said, "Loaded! With everything! I want to drive a loaded Murano, Quest and Pathfinder!"
I stared blankly at her for a moment and decided that this wasn't worth it. I looked at her and said, "Not with me. Find another salesperson." And I walked away. I heard her ask what my problem was, but I had no desire to ruin my afternoon with an extremely unhappy woman who couldn't answer simple questions and wanted a Six Flags Day with me. Not going to happen.
Poor hubby. I sensed something about her immediately. Some people just put off negative auras. Yuck.
She has a disease that is robbing her of her balance and muscle control. Very sad because she still has all of her faculties. Sharp as a tack.
She called me a couple fo weeks ago and said that she wanted a Civic. I quoted her a price and she thanked me for my time. She calls back and says that she had phone shopped me and found a dealer that was willing to sell it for a couple of hundred dollars less but that dealer was 75 miles away, a daunting drive for her given her condition. She says that she will take my car if I match their price. Ok No problem I tell her.
She came in today and wasnt feeling well, so I had the paperwork printed, sat her down in her car and signed the paperwork in her front seat. As she was leaving she reaches over, hugs me and puts a hundred dollar bill into my pocket.
What a sweet lady and what a great way to start the day!
> were probably 7 - 8 years younger than me. I will call them
> Jack and Jill. Jack is a huge hulking man but very quiet
> spoken imnsho Jill has him whipped. You know the type,
> beauty quueen and has never heard the word no in her life.
>
> Their M.O. was to come in at 15 minutes to close and want a
> 2 hour presentation and to test drive at least 3 vehicles.
> Since I knew them, it took 5 trips to really p*&% me off!
> The straw that broke the camels back was on a saturday when
> I was off they came in and took a up co workers whole
> saturday.
> They were looking at Odyssey vans and would want to test
> drive the exact same model in 3 different colors. I mean,
> come on, they are all going to drive the same.
>
> Last week in the middle of the day Jill comes in and wants
> to see/drive a couple of more Odyssey vans. Slow economy and
> all I flipped.
> " Jill why are you wasting so much BLANK time on
> this?" I asked.
> "Why dont you just buy the BLANK.?"
> " I am not showing you another van and not going to
> let my co workers either so get your BLANK in here and let me
> give you a price!" ( I had already given them pretty
> sweet prices 3 or 4 times already.)
>
> I get her a killer price. It looks suspiciously close to
> invoice less dealer cash.
> Now just get off of your and Jacks BLANK and buy this
> BLANK thing!, or not. I am going back inside."
>
> 3 days go by and I havent heard from them. I am thinking at
> least I got rid of them. Just to stir the pot, I called them
> on Wednesday and told them that price was only good through
> the coming weekend. Thery came in and committed Saturday and
> we got the van and delivered it last night.
>
> In my 11 years and hundreds of car deals I have never ever
> closed anyone by cursing them out.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I hate it when you greet a customer and they look you up and down like you just offended their whole family by speaking to them.
Did they end up buying? Did you get in trouble from management?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Management didn't really say anything to me. I told them what happened and that a greenpea could get some practice. I wasn't wasting my day with that. SM agreed. I was one of the top guys there. He didn't want me tied up with someone on a Saturday when I could be selling a couple of vehicles for him.
LOL Oh that is too funny.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
> closed anyone by cursing them out.
What was Jill's response to all the "blankety blank blank"? Seems you must have said it a bit tongue in cheek, not in anger or rage, or she would have said BLANK you and walked off. :confuse:
You made a spelling mistake.
J/K
The following afternoon I receive this email:
"Jeremy,
Sorry but I signed a better deal. Just over 300 less as I got the bump strip thrown in and I signed. Sorry."
Now this I understand and it does hurt. You invest time and effort in someone assuming ( key word) that they respect you in the same degree but in the end they game you. They used your numbers to command a better deal in a rough envionment but had not the respect for the time you had invested to allow you to match. Dishonest yes. Happens all the time but doesn't make it better. Rather makes you feel like a fool for being straightforward and then being played. In reference to senor shiftrights previous Gandhi mention. I will recall politically incorrect amusements from years gone past and apologise in advance. Ma hat , ma coat comes to mind easily but I think my favorite of that era was the new game in India was Sikh go hide. It's not enough to be topical a double entendre' scores you a bonus. Mea culpa, mea culpa maximus.
Thats the thing, it was said half in jest and half out of frustration and not knowing what else to say or do. She just looked at me with a blank stare as if I had just spoke martian to her. I was a little concerned that Jack might hear my comments and take offense but it didnt happen thank goodness.
> sweet prices 3 or 4 times already.)
This is why some of us go in with one price that has to be met or we walk. I’m convinced that a lot of salesman like it this way. They waste no time making or losing a sale. If they make the sale they’re onto the next guy that may be the one that will subsidize my deal.
Just curious, how many more prices did it take to close them?
This is also why I don’t ask for a “best price”, because it never seems to be the first one. Don’t get me wrong, I always let them give me a price. Then I give them mine.
Yeah, I like the way I do it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Doubtful. I think most salesmen would think of the "take it or leave it" offer as de-humanizing... an insult to their intelligence. Regulating them nothing more to an Mickey D's "order taker" as the deskman use to so eloquently put it. I know isell doesn't care for this method. It's a skinny deal the vast majority of time it is used, so no money there. May be acceptable in certain rare circumstances.
Salesman like to haggle and beat a customer down, to get a reasonable profit for themselves and their dealership. They like to club us like baby seals, so they can bring home big fat paychecks to their horde of concubine. So, make these guys (and you the buyer) happy... use the "Jipst Method" of car buying. :surprise:
Salesman like to haggle
Nothing insulting about it; it’s a business transaction. I allow them lots of time to haggle with others.
I know isell doesn't care for this method.
I forgot all about ‘isell’. BTW, does he still sell cars or has he gone back to tools at Sears. :shades:
They like to club us like baby seals, so they can bring home big fat paychecks to their horde of concubine.
Don’t count me in on either of those. The first one hurts and the second one is even worser when you think about it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Seriously, I am with jmonroe on this one. One price, even though it may be skinny (I offer 3-5% over cost and my offers have been accepted, historically) is worth the salesman's time. As far as I am concerned, the area a good salesman must excel in is product knowledge. I usually have a pretty good idea of the car I want before going in, but having a knowledgeable sales person is key to deciding upon the right vehicle because they usually have access to resources which I may not.
Maybe. But you have more and more consumers making offers like the "take it or leave it" (maybe around 25%), then you've significantly lowered the pay scale for Mr. Salesmen. Then they have to harpoon the whale every week, or go back to working at Sears.
The first one hurts and the second one is even worser when you think about it.
I wrote a horde of concubine... not a horde of porcupine. :P
Is 3-5% over cost considered skinny? I would think it a bit on the heavy side. If it includes doc. fees, and any other miscellaneous fees, then 3% may be okay.
You should patent the "Jipst Method" and maybe sell your services.......for buying cars I mean.
I hate haggling. The only thing I am comfortable doing is the "Driver Method",..... that doesn't sound nice, but here we go........
Driver - "OK, how much do you want?
Salesperson: X dollars.
Driver: "How much for the trade in"
Salesperson. Y dollars.
What is your best price you will do now that we have the raw numbers.
Salesperson: New car, less trade in, less 5% to be reasonable.
Driver: In my head "If he came down 5% right away, I'll try for additional 5% off on the new one, and $1 or $2000 more on the trade in." So that's what I do.
Salesperson, Usually comes down about half way more like another 2.5% on the new one and another $1000 bucks on the trade in. I could fight for more, but I think he has given in and I have and I am satisfied. (Keep in mind the 2.5% could vary depending on make - when I did this on a Jeep I'd shoot for another 5%) I am not sure the window sticker supposed "cost price" means a lot. Doesn't the dealer get a rebate and that price is there so people think that is the cost price? I kind of go the other way and come down. It's more dangerous my way because I guess I could get an inflated price in the beginning, but I doubt a salesperson is going to give me an inflated price, knowing that I am serious, I have done some homework, he is going to send a good prospect out the door if he blows it and gives me an inflated price. The cars I have bought lately aren't too negotiable, but there's some room on the trade-in (they have to work harder to get a good price for it) and I don't think they want me to walk. After a test drive I could buy the car all signed sealed and written up with a cheque in his hand in 20 minutes. On my 2nd Jeep I went in with a newspaper ad from a competitor and I asked if they could match it.....I was happy to pay that price and stay with my current dealer. He said he would actually do better ------so, I think they liked me as a customer and didn't want to lose me.
Maybe salespeople know they want my business and they will lose the sale completely if they mess around. I have politely left if it sounds like they aren't going to give me their best price upfront.
I could be all wrong, but I have never heard that I paid too much for a car, I know I have paid less than others for many of my cars, I have never regretted any car purchase. What do you think, do you think I pay too much? One other thought, time is money, and if I know I can come in and get a fair price each time I will be back. I bought 3 jeeps from the same dealer and I have bought 3 cars from my current dealer. Isn't it better for him to have me come back and trust him? What say you car salespeople???
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am replying to myself now...talk about vanity. Actually sounds a bit perverted.
I noticed that a really good salesperson (and this can make the difference in salespeople's ability) can get more for the trade in and that can make a big difference in whether I buy or not. The top guys could get more for the trade-in because they had a network of guys that were looking for my trade in or that would pay more for it. That made the difference in my buying in a few cases....a few dealers sold the new one for the same price, but some could give me more for my trade in.
What do you think salespeople? How many customers even take that into account. Many customers probably go to the dealer with the cheapest price for the new car, but don't realize they are getting less for their trade in. :surprise:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, I'll try not to do that. The last time I did it I ended up with a bruised eye!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A good salesperson still has to go through the manager who then uses his network of wholesalers to find a buyer for the trade. The salesperson can't use his own sources for trade ins and sell the car to his "buddy" brokers or wholesalers. Whether you have a newbie or a veteran, the trade ins still go through the same manager.
BUT.......
A good sales person also knows how to work the manager to make a difficult deal happen with a difficult trade, or difficult customer.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Could be true 99% of the time. But I had one trade in and I am sure that sales guy was not a manager. He got on the phone, with his big fat cigar in his mouth, and he got Lefty or someone on the phone, and he got me a few $1000 more than anyone else on my trade...and that made a big difference over other dealers that were all at Black Book or Blue Book - they didn't need a manager - they just needed a book, which I could have done!
Current car is similar. Traded in my wife's wagon for a competing brand. Salesman gave me the value of the Trade in done by his appraiser. I said I would buy if they took $Xs off the new one, and gave me $2k more on the trade in. He said they have someone that buys up those (they didn't want it on their lot but the competitor wants them on his lot) and the salesman gave us $2k more on the trade - and 2K over book value and 2K more than the dealer where the car came from....wonder if they were the one's who bought it back :confuse:
I am not doubting what you are saying, and as far as I am concerned I don't care if the manager gets involved, or the receptionist, or the owner or the grease monkey guy, if they can get more for the trade in it could make a big difference in closing the sale. That brings me to another point - Watch to see how the dealership handles your trade in and try to get as much for it as possible, sometimes people are just looking for the lowest price on the new model. That's easy, if you really want to test a dealer see what they can do with a trade-in
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
on the phone, with his big fat cigar in his mouth
The question is was the cigar lit or not. Living in a non-smoking environment, if he had a lit cigar, he'd be a bit more than a salesperson.
Also true is the fact that he had a fat cancer stick in his mouth tells a lot about him.
You play poker?
The best way I have found to handle it is one price for everything out the door. The rest is just a cash flow shell game. I don't care if the dealer sells me a car at MSRP and inflates the value of my trade, or low balls the trade and deeply discounts the new car as long as the OTD number is somewhere between 3-5% over cost.
The 3-5% over dealer cost includes all dealer fees. Those are all profit, so I give them a flat profit line instead of individual fees. I do not care how they write it on paper as long as their bottom line matches mine to the penny. I do not include tax when calculating profit. I calculate that separately since the dealer does not get to keep that.
When deciding if it is 3,3.5,4,4,5,or 5% profit, I consider the sales staff and overall goodness of the dealership. If a dealer has the car I want in stock, but I'm not too fond of the way I have been treated, I offer 3% - take it or I walk (I never return to a dealer I have walked out from once an offer is rejected if I made them aware of this condition). If the sales staff are kind and not pushy or trying to unload something on me (wrong transmission or equipment just to get a sale today rather than get me what I want and do some work) I will offer 5% for their extra effort and as a reward for treating me with kindness and respect.
Sorry Steve but I just couldn't resist this one ......
How nice of you sir to allow me to make a living. Does the reward come with a doggie biscuit too? :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
This happened a number of years ago and smoking wasn't taboo then. He was smoking it. It was about 8:30 and though it was a Ford new car dealership, we were in the used car trailer.....and I was leasing an Oldsmobile from him. I actually went in to try out a Ford and it was so bad, I went over and looked at the Oldsmobile - and liked it. Sometimes wonder if you do get a better price getting it from a dealership that doesn't really sell them.
The salesman was a jerk, but his price was good and he knew how to play the game....he had used car dealers that he had connections with.
I will say that today car selling is probably more of a formula. Take the paperwork to the manager, the appraisal at the dealership is final and basically blue/black book price. There's not too many cowboys like Andy with a big cigar in their mouth.......but as I say, on my wife's trade in they called around and got a dealership that wanted her car and would pay a premium to get it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
3% sounds pretty slim to me. On a $20000 car the dealer gross's 600 bucks!
That won't cover the salesman's commission, rent, advertising, staff, financing, telephone lines, improvements, detail people.....on and on.
Like Boomer says.......let the dealership make some profit. 3% gross profit isn't a lot of margin, the dealer won't be around when you need servicing if we all paid 3% over cost price
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Not really worried about everyone else.. The dealer can lose money on me... I'll be okay with it.. and take my chances on service, later... :P
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That's right. We manage to get angry over just about anything! :mad: :mad:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Aw shucks...... :shades:
Not to sound cruel about this but that’s exactly how I feel. Where did this mentality start that the buyer has to care about how much or how little the salesman or the dealership makes. Has anyone ever heard of a dealership that cared how much of our kid’s lunch money they’re taking when they “club us like a baby seal”?
It’s a business transaction; they take care of themselves and we take care of ourselves. They’re big boys/girls and I’m sure they know how to sell. If the owner wants the sale and the salesman takes the hit, that is not something I should feel obligated about.
How many times do we have to hear "if you don't ask you don't get" and of course that works both ways, before we start to believe it
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
We are back to the mindset that I stated before, "If I can take advantage of you - then I am going to come out ahead". I don't think that's the best way to go through life.
Instead, think "I am going to get the fairest deal I can make for myself, but I know the seller has to make a fair and reasonable profit as well".
That is a win win situation, I am happy with my new car and the price I paid, and the dealer who was fair to me will be around to sell me more cars in the future. You have just made the world and your own life and those around you more positive. If you don't feel you are being treated fairly then try another dealer. If you think everyone is out to get you get some psychological help
If it's everyone for themselves and who can screw whom (hope that's correct grammer) then you might save a few bucks, but you will become a shrivelled up old man who will need anger management classes (Mr Shift-right), and you will become mean and ugly and lonely in your old age.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
NO WAY, doggie biscuits are way too expensive for me to buy! :P
I don't think Jipster and jmonroe are lonely...
Seriously, buying a car IS a business transaction and both buyer and seller are trying to get the best for themselves. The salesman usually has the advantage because he/she knows what the bottom line is and has the skills to conclude things his/her way. The buyer is making a guess at best as to where the lowest price is.
This is an adversarial transaction by it's very nature. Not the best situation for making friends and having warm feelings.
It is the salesperson's job to make you feel at ease, like he/she is your friend even. That's sales 101. But a salesperson who gives away the owner's profit because he/she likes you won't be around very long.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Percussionist, are you a musician (thus the name)?
In a round about way I'd be curious to know what kind of work you do.
I am guessing that you have never owned your own business. Someone risks hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to build a business, stays up at night wondering if they will lose it all, has the responsibility of finding and paying staff, is left at the whim of the economy, the weather, the make of car they chose to sell.....etc. Takes a huge risk and then has a potential customer who wants him to barely break even on a sale. If I was a car dealer, unless I was desparate for some cash, or to make my monthly quota, or I had a dog I had to move from my lot, I would try to get you out the door as fast as possible, so that I could talk to someone who has potential for me to survive.
I am trying to say all this as politely as possible, so don't take it the wrong way. I am not saying all dealerships or business's are fair, and you have to walk away if you think they are taking advantage of you....but you can't expect to brow beat every car dealer down to breaking even - in the end it won't work, you'll get the worst dealer who won't be there to help you if you need them to help you, they could go out of business and you will have to drive further for service, you'll have to fight all over again when you go back to buy your next car. Even if you paid $500 too much for a car (and I don't suggest you do) and you keep it for 5 years, that's $100 a year and you won't become a mean, lonely old curmudgeon that is always trying to beat everyone over the head for every last dime
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I can't make them lose money. So, I assume by the fact they agreed to the deal, that they are happy with it. If the offer is too low, say sorry and boot me. No hard feelings!
And it really is the dealers problem to make sure the salesforce makes a decent living. Not mine.
Again, if they take the deal, they must be happy with it (and making money somehow) or they wouldn't do it.
Very few people that post here truly understand all the financial ins and outs of a dealership. I am certainly not one of them! So losing money is a nebulous concept at best.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.