He included me today in a group email cartoon and I answered back by asking him how he's doing. He replied "good". He's going in for a different treatment and he sounded pretty positive.
I'm almost 36 and I would drive one in a heartbeat. IMO, by far the best looking of the Enclave/Acadia/Outlook/Traverse, especially in the white diamond color--very classy. Lucerne is very nice in a geriatric sort of way. Then again, I have been a closet admirer of big land barges since high school. You can sure fit a lot of beer luggage in the trunk of a 86 Town Car when heading to the beach for senior week.
My only concern would be GM's future. I'm not sure I would want to be the guinea pig on such a big investment. I haven't heard anything about whether or not the warranty would be any good post bankruptcy. If still honored in theory, would it be a battle getting any repairs approved as they pinch pennies?
That is my main concern - the warranty and potential bankruptcy. After 9/11 I bought an Oldsmobile - and when that brand vanished, it was not too bad getting serviced at Cadillac dealerships - but I did have the car towed by AAA. They called me back to say the truck was at an abandoned Olds dealership - what should they do??
My goal is to look a the Pilot, and I have confidence in Ford so I want to see the Flex, and then will look at the Enclave and even the Mazda CX9. I have always leased "my" car - but with the economy the way it is and falling residuals - I may just opt to purchase something if there is a good interest rate to be had.
Once I start getting out and about, I will share my stories.
Joel, thanks for checking on the GM for me. I guess that I am a miser because I can't get excited about the $3,500 discount. At least the '08's still have a $5k rebate. Guess I'll wait. You remember I had the Explorer reconditioned. It runs like a top at 85k. The convertible also has no problems. I really don't have to have a new car now. Also, the money looks mighty nice sitting in the bank.
There is something else that doesn't excite me. When the Ford CEO offers to work for a buck, I am not impressed. For the last few years he has worked for $20m+a year. Working for a buck a year now doesn't mean any sacrifice at all. Also, I wouldn't be asking for a hand out if I publicly announced that I didn't really need the money. I'm not interested in a company saving my money for an emergency. I'll save my own money for my own emergency.
As for Chrysler, who are they to ask for a loan when they are a privately held company? I haven't seen their balance sheets. Also, if Chrysler goes under I would think that the failure would strengthen Ford's position. I don't wish to see any company go under, but our tax dollars can't hold up the car market, the banks, the brokers, state governments (See California's news today.), local governments, etc. If we assist all of the groups who claim to need help, where will you and I end up? As for me, I don't feel comfortable living in a cardboard box. You work hard to support your family. I did my 40 years. Neither of us deserves this.
You and I both love Ford. On that we will always agree.
nephew is 23 and just bought an 02 supercharged regal.
Didn't think I would here 23 and (Buick) Regal in the same sentence
I can remember a supercharged Regal GS around that vintage that wasn't a bad looking ride. (search buick regal gs on ebay, look at the red one) For the money, nephew could have ended up with a lot of blander things. Still not what you'd expect a 23 year old to drive at first guess, but I'd rather have this than some generic Fujisaki Scootabout.
I think the key for a lot of cars is to check off all the option boxes. The generic low end rental versions that flood the used car market sour me on many models. When you see one with optional rims, sunroof, spoiler, leather, etc. they don't seem so dowdy. Big 3 sedans and Toyotas immediately come to mind as things that really benefit from a little window dressing.
I think Ford CEO is the least guilty of them all. Came not so long ago from completely different industry (and was successful there). Perhaps didn't do enough to trully turn the company aroun, but he did quite a bit. Their product is probably best from domestic, or at least in smaller vehicle categories. They do have problems (like it still seems to be competition amongs domestic who can make whose so-called crossover is porkier and Edge seems to be on track to win that contest).
Now let's look at those other bozos: Wagoner has been there for 15 years now and still can't figure out how to make cars that people want at price higher than his cost :sick: . Time's out. Nardelli is a joke: damaged Home Depot, collected 200 milion bucks and as a punishment they put him in charge of another damaged company, likely with another juicy contract :sick: . And his bosses are total morons: what did they actually see that was worth buying not so long ago is beyond me. My not so smart little sister would know not to touch Chrysler. Were was the value? :lemon:
Mulally siad he will work for a buck a year, so i guess that precludes just about everyone.
He qualified that statement by saying only "if" Ford had to use the bailout money. He anticipates that "most likely" Ford won't need the money. He also expects Ford to go under if GM does. So what does that say?
Proof positive that Buick ownership causes irreversible brain damage...
Tiger has a kid and a gorgeous wife. What could he possible need a two seater for? Now the caddy just got married a year or two ago. Additionally by giving it away he is no longer responsible for the full tax liability caused by winning it.
Additionally by giving it away he is no longer responsible for the full tax liability caused by winning it.
Sorry wrong answer, if he won it and accepted it he is taxed on its value. If he gives it away not only is he taxed on the value of the car he might incur a gift tax (unless its donated to a bonified charity).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Looks like a nice car but I thought you had to prove you were 80 or over before they would give you a Buick. I heard they have a new option, it automatically turns off your signal light if you don't actually make a turn in 2 miles
He also expects Ford to go under if GM does. So what does that say?
Ford and GM share same parts suppliers. If GM goes under, suppliers will go under and pull Ford down with them.
I still don’t think that GM and Ford will survive unless UAW is disbanded. No company can survive if they have to pay an army of retirees and their spouses a pension and health benefits for the rest of their lives? Is there any other company that still offers these benefits to their current blue color employees?
driver....those supercharged Buicks were something of a sleeper. I still see a lot of those (and the supercharged Gran Prix) around. Based on the ubiquitous 3.8L GM V6 (which had quite a following). The GENERAL slapped a supercharger on them for customers that wanted a bit more "sport" in their rolling couches.
isell....I would also ask that you extend my kind wishes to Mack when you get in touch with him again. Glad to hear he's doing better.
Chrysler? Nardelli? I agree. Cerebus/Chrysler is a private company. They deserve public money, why exactly? Daimler/Cerebus did everything within their power to screw Chrysler. We're supposed to clean up their mess? I'm thinking....NO! FIrst, Daimler still has a vested interest in Chrysler. They're a foreign entity. If Nardelli can't put forth a better plan than what he's laid out, I can't see any reason for us to agree to their bailout.
Wagoner and GM....I don't know any of the specifics of what models he's axing, plants he's going to shutter, or how he's planning to sustain GM past the next few months (let alone the next few years). Still, gotta do better than what I'm hearing.
Ford and Mullaly? Seems to have a better handle on what Ford needs to do. Still, I have yet to hear any concrete details on how he intends to stay out of putting his hand in the public till.
iver....those supercharged Buicks were something of a sleeper. I still see a lot of those (and the supercharged Gran Prix) around. Based on the ubiquitous 3.8L GM V6 (which had quite a following). The GENERAL slapped a supercharger on them for customers that wanted a bit more "sport" in their rolling couches.
You are right GG in everything you say and it seems like a good buy for under $30,000. Just not too many self respecting Bimmer or Audi drivers will give it a try.
Part of the GM plan sounds pretty reasonable; CUTTING BRANDS, MODELS, DEALERS
GM will look to drop its Pontiac, Saab and Saturn brands in addition to Hummer, now being shopped to potential bidders.
GM will focus on Chevy, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Those four brands represent about 83 pct of current sales.
Pontiac will become a specialty niche brand with few vehicles on offer.
Saab will be shopped globally to potential bidders.
GM will meet with Saturn dealers to consider options for the failed brand.
The number of GM models on offer will drop from 48 in 2008 to 40 by 2012.
GM will look to cut dealers from about 6,450 in 2008 to 4,700 by 2012, mostly by reducing showrooms in major U.S. cities and suburbs.
I was surprised the number of models will drop from 48 in 08 to 40 in 2012. Doesn't seem like a big enough drop. 20 models should be enough. Concessions from UAW would really help.
MANAGEMENT COMPENSATION CUTS
CEO Rick Wagoner will work for a $1 salary in 2009 and will not receive a bonus for 2008 or 2009.
GM directors will receive only a $1 retainer in 2009.
GM President and COO Fritz Henderson will have his compensation cut by 30 pct.
Other senior executives will take 20 percent pay cuts.
Well, at least they are trying. Why only 30% and 20% cut......these guys won't get jobs somewhere else!
In my town dealer has a Kia Sedona at full MSRP and if you buy it you get a stripped down Accent. Dealer admits it is just a way to get people in. With discounts you are better off just buying one new car with all the discounts.
This makes me wonder what is so great about 0% financing. It sounds good in theory, but customer is paying for it somewhere....I'll call it built into the price of the car. The car has to be less if the manufacturer isn't borrowing the money. This is a big factor in the credit crunch crisis today....people think they are borrowing money for free.
joel....I understand what you're saying, but if Ford "doesn't really need the money", what's Mullaly doing begging for it?
I think (nothing to back this up just an observation on my part) that allot of it will have to do with if the terms of the Bridge Loan are better then the untapped line of credit we already have in place.
Just for an example if I have a LOC in place at 6% and some one offers me a loan at 5% then I would be crazy not to take it.
Now granted you make payments on a LOC if you use it and the Bridge Loan will require payment if it is needed or not. Unless they let the Feds hold the money till needed. I don't know the details.
driver....my former spouse had the Grand Prix version of the supercharged 3.8L. Aside from some torque steer and the typical "plastic" interior of a GM product at the time, I don't remember her having even one small issue with it.
Torque was there "RIGHT NOW" in it. Got to hear the supercharger whine. This was 14-15 years ago, but I do remember it being able to embarrass some much more expensive machinery....and do so in relative comfort. She used to complain that it got mediocre MPG, but that was to be expected as she was a driver who was herky jerky on the road, and kept her foot in it most of the time.
I remember reading quite some time ago that the supercharged 3.8L GM motor was too expensive to produce, so they dropped it. As I mentioned, they must be pretty stout as I still see quite a few of both the Buick and Pontiac versions on the road.
joel...my opinion...after reading some of the details....
Cerebus/Chrysler/Nardelli.......I've yet to see who they're turning their business around. I think the original intent of Cerebus (and Daimler) when Chrysler was sold, to break up the company into pieces. Well, as the economy soured, they can't. The Chinese have looked at it. I believe Ghosn looked at it. Both took a pass. As much as it pains me to say this, Cerebus/Daimler shouldn't get out of this with a free pass. Daimler built the coffin for Chrysler. Cerebus wanted to hammer the nails into the lid. Let Chrysler file for Chapter 11 and see how they come out of it. Force both companies to find a way to keep Chrysler a going concern. If not, they need to shoulder all the losses.
GM....they're getting there. But, I think any bailout money should come with the caveat that Wagoner isn't the man for this job. Maybe elevate Lutz, at least temporarily. He's the only person who seems to be focused on putting out products that people actually want to buy. Clearly, GM plans on trimming, probably eliminating Saturn and Pontiac. Saab is gone. Hummer....I haven't heard what exactly will happen to that brand. That's a start. I still think GMC is redundant. Is Buick really selling that many vehicles for them to pull their own weight? If not, they can go, too.
That means all the Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealerships will fold. Maybe do that by attrition since we're hearing of dealership closings every day.
Ford, as you mention, is in the "best" shape....if you want to call it that. But, I'd demand to know what Ford plans on doing with Mercury. Again, another redundant brand before any "lines of credit or bailout money" are established.
All of that should "right size" the Detroit automakers. Then, we can go from there.
Joel, I really like the new commercials for the F150. They are pretty creative. Still, I think that they have screwed up one of the commercials. They put one gallon of gas in an F150, a Toyota, a Chevy, and a GMC. The four trucks go around a seven mile track until they run out of gas. None of the trucks but the F150 can make two laps around the track. The F150 guy jokingly says that he is out of gas and will have to walk back.. Here is the problem. The F150 is supposed to get 24mpg. If he ran out of gas after two 7 mile laps on a gallon of gas, then he only got 14mpg. I just thought that it was strange.
The second commercial about the four trucks and their hauling capacity is really good. The F150 can out haul the others hands down. GO FORD!
Torque was there "RIGHT NOW" in it. Got to hear the supercharger whine.
I've go the 3.8 non-supercharger in my 99 Regal. At 200 hp it is quick off the line (torque) and has the power to pass at any speed. The 3.8 has been around for a long time because it is a great engine. Secure and confident handling, comfort and power, reliability... the perfect family sedan.
I believe Buick considers the Regal their "sporty sedan", so let's make that clear so there ain't no more old people jokes about the Buick Regal. :P
Yesterday I got a price from a Toyota dealer over the internet for a 2009 Tacoma 4 cylinder, automatic, SR5 package, for 19,515 (MSRP was 22,500) including 2.9 percent financing for 60 months. I checked my prices, and it is under invoice and under Edmunds TMV. I went to the dealer, test drove the truck, and agreed to the deal and bought the truck. The only other fees were a 298 Doc fee (standard in Massachusetts) and a 75 registration fee, and sales tax (5%). According to my research, the price seems great. How is the commission on a deal like that split up. I talked with the internet manager via email, then was set up with a salesman when I got there.
"The F150 is supposed to get 24mpg. If he ran out of gas after two 7 mile laps on a gallon of gas, then he only got 14mpg. I just thought that it was strange. "
The mpg rating for a F150 is 14mpg (smallest engine 4x2), according to fords website. No full size truck gets anywhere near 24mpg, the 2.3 L fusion gets only 20mpg.
Now maybe if you have a jockey driving an empty polished F150 downwind, down a hill with a warmed up engine with an near empty tank with the radio and A/C turned off you can get the highway rating 20mpg.
The commision is most likely split between the two people.
Another possibility is the Internet Sales Manager just gets paid for brining people in, and gets a flat fee for every customer who shows up, and maybe a bonus or something extra if they buy. All depends on their pay plan.
The mpg rating for a F150 is 14mpg (smallest engine 4x2), according to fords website. No full size truck gets anywhere near 24mpg, the 2.3 L fusion gets only 20mpg.
You are talking city and the OP was talking HWY and it is 21 not 24.
the All-New '09 F-150 features a three-engine lineup that provides excellent power and fuel economy. The robust 5.4L 3-valve SOHC V8 is E85 Flex-Fuel-capable and features Variable Cam Timing (VCT) for enhanced efficiency when hauling heavy loads. The new 4.6L 3-valve SOHC V8 delivers unsurpassed fuel economy at 21 mpg** and uses Charge Motion Control Valves to increase performance while reducing emissions. The 4.6L 2-valve V8 features increased horsepower and torque with the same fuel economy as the base engine it replaces. In fact, across the engine lineup, the New '09 F-150 provides greater horsepower and torque while delivering improved fuel economy.
**EPA-estimated 15 city/21 highway mpg, SuperCrew 2WD with SFE package.
For those into history, the 3800 engine go's back to 1962 when Buick decided to put a previously unheard of V-6 into the Buick Specials. they were pretty primitive and they had a rough idle.
And they evolved into one of the best engines ever built by anyone.
Superchargers were totally unnecessary on these cars. They had gobs of torque and they seem to last forever.
Superchargers were totally unnecessary on these cars.
I had bought one of the first 1997.5 Regal GS that would do awesome front wheel burnouts. I had rented a vanilla Regal LS and while it would chirp the tires off the line, no way would it smoke it. Kinda reminded me of a friend's '66 Valiant with the 225 slant 6. It too would chirp the tires in first but that was about it.
Yesterday I got a price from a Toyota dealer over the internet for a 2009 Tacoma 4 cylinder, automatic, SR5 package, for 19,515 (MSRP was 22,500) including 2.9 percent financing for 60 months. I checked my prices, and it is under invoice and under Edmunds TMV. I went to the dealer, test drove the truck, and agreed to the deal and bought the truck. The only other fees were a 298 Doc fee (standard in Massachusetts) and a 75 registration fee, and sales tax (5%). According to my research, the price seems great. How is the commission on a deal like that split up. I talked with the internet manager via email, then was set up with a salesman when I got there.
You bought a Tacoma because you want a truck that will last you a long time and you see the value in the Toyota brand. The only problem I see with your purchase is that you disregarded the Edmunds TMV price, the invoice price, and bought the vehicle for as little as possible. They basically had to throw everything but the kitchen sink at you before you would purchase.
How many "quotes" did you go through before you decided to "pull the trigger"?
You basically denied the salesmen any chance at making a decent buck. He will probably split a $100 commission.
You want the truck, the Toyota name...but you don't want to pay for it. That is the mentality of the modern day American consumer.
Think about it....a guy sold you a $19,000 piece of equipment and he made $50 on the sale. In the best case scenario he made $100.
And you probably had to wait more then 10 minutes for the F&I guy to do the paperwork so you'll show your dissatisfaction by giving the salesmen a bad CSI survey.
A lot of people on this forum remind me of the ghouls who stampeded the poor Wal Mart worker out in New York.
"I WANT THE BEST.....BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT!!!!"
Buick V6 engine From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Buick V6, initially marketed as Fireball at its introduction in 1962, is a large V6 engine used by General Motors. The block is made of cast iron and all use two-valve-per-cylinder iron heads, actuated by pushrods.
The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th century list, and is one of the most-produced engines in history. To date, over 25 million have been produced.
In 1967, GM sold the design to Kaiser-Jeep. The muscle car era had taken hold, and GM no longer felt the need to produce a V6, considered in North America an unusual engine configuration at the time. The energy crisis a decade later prompted the company to buy the design back from American Motors (AMC), who had by that point bought Kaiser-Jeep, and the descendants of the early 231 continue to be the most-common GM V6.
Toyota dealer over the internet for a 2009 Tacoma 4 cylinder, automatic, SR5 package, for 19,515 (MSRP was 22,500)
$19,515 doesn't sound too unreasonable on a $22,500 truck...maybe 12% - 15% OFF MSRP. Sounds like a very good price, but not stealing - with all the discounting going on!
Alej, should the salesman say he's got 4 starving children and he can't afford to give them homoginized milk at those prices?
Sounds like a good customer to me. Did his research, made a call, test drove, then bought. Now he is concerned about the salesperson not getting some of the commission.
As far as paying as "little as possible"... if that bothers you that much, I agree with what others have suggested, look for another line of work.
Oh boo hoo to you. Would you like some cheese with that whine? You sound like the same whiny salesman who said to me once, "I need to feed my family". I laughed at him and told him I'd give him a tin can so he can go stand on a street corner with his sign and then walked out.
You REALLY need to find a new line of work. You're about to go postal on the next customer who offers you under invoice.
"...The only problem I see with your purchase is you disregarded the Edmunds TMV price, the invoice price, and bought the vehicle for as little as possible..."
LOL And they say car salesmen don't have a sense of humor.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
A reporter from a large business magazine would like to speak with consumers or dealers who have come up with different ways to sell their new or used vehicles to make their deal or ad stand out from the rest. (Similar deals that have been used are the “buy one, get one free” promotion or a guy waking around town with a sandwich board advertising his pickup truck). If you found a different way to sell your vehicle, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Monday, December 8.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Joel, I saw a commercial that claimed that it got 24mpg. That's where I got my figure for my post. Naturally, I would believe you any day over a commercial.
You REALLY need to find a new line of work. You're about to go postal on the next customer who offers you under invoice.
Oh please....after the customer gets an incredible deal and knows he's stealing the truck he now feigns concern for the "poor salesman" and the commission?
Gimme a break.
I've actually had more then one customer tell me that they wanted to make sure I didn't "make" anything on the sale. I can't imagine living life with such a chip on your shoulder.
Really?
Really?
You want to make sure that I provide you with a service and that I shouldn't be compensated for it?
I've never...in my life....worried about what a salesmen was making when I bought something. Never. Do you guys go to Best Buy and start giving grief to the kid working in the TV departement? Do you grill him about how much he's making and how you hope that he doesn't make anything by selling you a product?
And then you get this guy who buys a vehicle under invoice and then wants to know about the commission for the poor [non-permissible content removed] who had the displeasure of opening his email.
It's like you guys get into this deranged mental state when you go and buy a car. Wishing and hoping that the poor sap who walks up to you and says hello makes as little as possible.
I just want to go to the place of business of one of my customers and unload on them like they do when they stumble into the dealership. It's a dream of mine. Just stand over their shoulder and act like a tool.
A salesmen sold a Sequoia the other day and made a $7,500 payable. I don't feel one bit of compassion for the customer.
And you guys wonder why you get treated so poorly when you buy cars.
What in the name of grits and black eyed peas is wrong with you today? Poor j1mbo01 was only sharing the fact that he got a discount from the dealer and that he had done some research which showed the price to be under invoice. Most dealers are offering discounts now. Is the customer supposed to decline the offer?
At first, I was concerned with your smiling and having a positive attitude. Now I am more concerned that you may have a bigger problem. If the dealership is doing this to you, try to find a showroom that will bring you back to your old self. If a career change is needed, try to make it happen. You just don't need to be this unhappy. I'm not trying to be a smart a-- or a know-it-all. I simply don't feel that you should continue this way. If we can help, just ask us for advice. We all have plenty of that I'm sure.
Talking like a true salesman. You have the best product and I'm supposed to trust you how much that product should cost.
I WANT THE BEST.....BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT!!!!"
No, I want the best for the particular money I'm willing to spend - or I do want the best and pay for it as little as necessary to get it. Just as much as you want to charge me for it as much as humanly possible.
If you want me to accept world of ADMs, phoney KBB reports, old-school pressure tactics, off-the-wall asking prices, you have to accept that with it comes world of people who would drive to another state to save $100. Not me, but there are some. YOU CANNOT HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. Just a matter of economics and pure psychology.
Comments
I'm almost 36 and I would drive one in a heartbeat. IMO, by far the best looking of the Enclave/Acadia/Outlook/Traverse, especially in the white diamond color--very classy. Lucerne is very nice in a geriatric sort of way. Then again, I have been a closet admirer of big land barges since high school. You can sure fit a lot of
beerluggage in the trunk of a 86 Town Car when heading to the beach for senior week.My only concern would be GM's future. I'm not sure I would want to be the guinea pig on such a big investment. I haven't heard anything about whether or not the warranty would be any good post bankruptcy. If still honored in theory, would it be a battle getting any repairs approved as they pinch pennies?
My goal is to look a the Pilot, and I have confidence in Ford so I want to see the Flex, and then will look at the Enclave and even the Mazda CX9. I have always leased "my" car - but with the economy the way it is and falling residuals - I may just opt to purchase something if there is a good interest rate to be had.
Once I start getting out and about, I will share my stories.
Give him our best wishes, if you haven't already.
Didn't think I would here 23 and (Buick) Regal in the same sentence
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
There is something else that doesn't excite me. When the Ford CEO offers to work for a buck, I am not impressed. For the last few years he has worked for $20m+a year. Working for a buck a year now doesn't mean any sacrifice at all. Also, I wouldn't be asking for a hand out if I publicly announced that I didn't really need the money. I'm not interested in a company saving my money for an emergency. I'll save my own money for my own emergency.
As for Chrysler, who are they to ask for a loan when they are a privately held company? I haven't seen their balance sheets. Also, if Chrysler goes under I would think that the failure would strengthen Ford's position. I don't wish to see any company go under, but our tax dollars can't hold up the car market, the banks, the brokers, state governments (See California's news today.), local governments, etc. If we assist all of the groups who claim to need help, where will you and I end up? As for me, I don't feel comfortable living in a cardboard box. You work hard to support your family. I did my 40 years. Neither of us deserves this.
You and I both love Ford. On that we will always agree.
Richard
Didn't think I would here 23 and (Buick) Regal in the same sentence
I can remember a supercharged Regal GS around that vintage that wasn't a bad looking ride. (search buick regal gs on ebay, look at the red one) For the money, nephew could have ended up with a lot of blander things. Still not what you'd expect a 23 year old to drive at first guess, but I'd rather have this than some generic Fujisaki Scootabout.
I think the key for a lot of cars is to check off all the option boxes. The generic low end rental versions that flood the used car market sour me on many models. When you see one with optional rims, sunroof, spoiler, leather, etc. they don't seem so dowdy. Big 3 sedans and Toyotas immediately come to mind as things that really benefit from a little window dressing.
Now let's look at those other bozos: Wagoner has been there for 15 years now and still can't figure out how to make cars that people want at price higher than his cost :sick: . Time's out. Nardelli is a joke: damaged Home Depot, collected 200 milion bucks and as a punishment they put him in charge of another damaged company, likely with another juicy contract :sick: . And his bosses are total morons: what did they actually see that was worth buying not so long ago is beyond me. My not so smart little sister would know not to touch Chrysler. Were was the value? :lemon:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Proof positive that Buick ownership causes irreversible brain damage...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
He qualified that statement by saying only "if" Ford had to use the bailout money. He anticipates that "most likely" Ford won't need the money. He also expects Ford to go under if GM does. So what does that say?
Tiger has a kid and a gorgeous wife. What could he possible need a two seater for? Now the caddy just got married a year or two ago. Additionally by giving it away he is no longer responsible for the full tax liability caused by winning it.
Sorry wrong answer, if he won it and accepted it he is taxed on its value. If he gives it away not only is he taxed on the value of the car he might incur a gift tax (unless its donated to a bonified charity).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Couldn't find one on EBay but this should be close;
Buick Regal GS
Looks like a nice car but I thought you had to prove you were 80 or over before they would give you a Buick. I heard they have a new option, it automatically turns off your signal light if you don't actually make a turn in 2 miles
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Ford and GM share same parts suppliers. If GM goes under, suppliers will go under and pull Ford down with them.
I still don’t think that GM and Ford will survive unless UAW is disbanded. No company can survive if they have to pay an army of retirees and their spouses a pension and health benefits for the rest of their lives? Is there any other company that still offers these benefits to their current blue color employees?
isell....I would also ask that you extend my kind wishes to Mack when you get in touch with him again. Glad to hear he's doing better.
Chrysler? Nardelli? I agree. Cerebus/Chrysler is a private company. They deserve public money, why exactly? Daimler/Cerebus did everything within their power to screw Chrysler. We're supposed to clean up their mess? I'm thinking....NO! FIrst, Daimler still has a vested interest in Chrysler. They're a foreign entity. If Nardelli can't put forth a better plan than what he's laid out, I can't see any reason for us to agree to their bailout.
Wagoner and GM....I don't know any of the specifics of what models he's axing, plants he's going to shutter, or how he's planning to sustain GM past the next few months (let alone the next few years). Still, gotta do better than what I'm hearing.
Ford and Mullaly? Seems to have a better handle on what Ford needs to do. Still, I have yet to hear any concrete details on how he intends to stay out of putting his hand in the public till.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thanks Isell..... I was a little worried. I just emailed to see if I get a response because I haven't heard from him in about 3 weeks.
Hope he is having his favorite burrito
GP
You are right GG in everything you say and it seems like a good buy for under $30,000.
Just not too many self respecting Bimmer or Audi drivers will give it a try.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
CUTTING BRANDS, MODELS, DEALERS
GM will look to drop its Pontiac, Saab and Saturn brands in addition to Hummer, now being shopped to potential bidders.
GM will focus on Chevy, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Those four brands represent about 83 pct of current sales.
Pontiac will become a specialty niche brand with few vehicles on offer.
Saab will be shopped globally to potential bidders.
GM will meet with Saturn dealers to consider options for the failed brand.
The number of GM models on offer will drop from 48 in 2008 to 40 by 2012.
GM will look to cut dealers from about 6,450 in 2008 to 4,700 by 2012, mostly by reducing showrooms in major U.S. cities and suburbs.
I was surprised the number of models will drop from 48 in 08 to 40 in 2012. Doesn't seem like a big enough drop. 20 models should be enough. Concessions from UAW would really help.
MANAGEMENT COMPENSATION CUTS
CEO Rick Wagoner will work for a $1 salary in 2009 and will not receive a bonus for 2008 or 2009.
GM directors will receive only a $1 retainer in 2009.
GM President and COO Fritz Henderson will have his compensation cut by 30 pct.
Other senior executives will take 20 percent pay cuts.
Well, at least they are trying. Why only 30% and 20% cut......these guys won't get jobs somewhere else!
I miss Mac too!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
This makes me wonder what is so great about 0% financing. It sounds good in theory, but customer is paying for it somewhere....I'll call it built into the price of the car. The car has to be less if the manufacturer isn't borrowing the money. This is a big factor in the credit crunch crisis today....people think they are borrowing money for free.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think (nothing to back this up just an observation on my part) that allot of it will have to do with if the terms of the Bridge Loan are better then the untapped line of credit we already have in place.
Just for an example if I have a LOC in place at 6% and some one offers me a loan at 5% then I would be crazy not to take it.
Now granted you make payments on a LOC if you use it and the Bridge Loan will require payment if it is needed or not. Unless they let the Feds hold the money till needed. I don't know the details.
Torque was there "RIGHT NOW" in it. Got to hear the supercharger whine. This was 14-15 years ago, but I do remember it being able to embarrass some much more expensive machinery....and do so in relative comfort. She used to complain that it got mediocre MPG, but that was to be expected as she was a driver who was herky jerky on the road, and kept her foot in it most of the time.
I remember reading quite some time ago that the supercharged 3.8L GM motor was too expensive to produce, so they dropped it. As I mentioned, they must be pretty stout as I still see quite a few of both the Buick and Pontiac versions on the road.
Cerebus/Chrysler/Nardelli.......I've yet to see who they're turning their business around. I think the original intent of Cerebus (and Daimler) when Chrysler was sold, to break up the company into pieces. Well, as the economy soured, they can't. The Chinese have looked at it. I believe Ghosn looked at it. Both took a pass. As much as it pains me to say this, Cerebus/Daimler shouldn't get out of this with a free pass. Daimler built the coffin for Chrysler. Cerebus wanted to hammer the nails into the lid. Let Chrysler file for Chapter 11 and see how they come out of it. Force both companies to find a way to keep Chrysler a going concern. If not, they need to shoulder all the losses.
GM....they're getting there. But, I think any bailout money should come with the caveat that Wagoner isn't the man for this job. Maybe elevate Lutz, at least temporarily. He's the only person who seems to be focused on putting out products that people actually want to buy. Clearly, GM plans on trimming, probably eliminating Saturn and Pontiac. Saab is gone. Hummer....I haven't heard what exactly will happen to that brand. That's a start. I still think GMC is redundant. Is Buick really selling that many vehicles for them to pull their own weight? If not, they can go, too.
That means all the Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealerships will fold. Maybe do that by attrition since we're hearing of dealership closings every day.
Ford, as you mention, is in the "best" shape....if you want to call it that. But, I'd demand to know what Ford plans on doing with Mercury. Again, another redundant brand before any "lines of credit or bailout money" are established.
All of that should "right size" the Detroit automakers. Then, we can go from there.
With the baby boomers and the general population aging, I wouldn't count out Buicks and Mercurys yet. Old bones need a comfortable ride. :P
Richard
The second commercial about the four trucks and their hauling capacity is really good. The F150 can out haul the others hands down. GO FORD!
Richard
I've go the 3.8 non-supercharger in my 99 Regal. At 200 hp it is quick off the line (torque) and has the power to pass at any speed. The 3.8 has been around for a long time because it is a great engine. Secure and confident handling, comfort and power, reliability... the perfect family sedan.
I believe Buick considers the Regal their "sporty sedan", so let's make that clear so there ain't no more old people jokes about the Buick Regal. :P
The mpg rating for a F150 is 14mpg (smallest engine 4x2), according to fords website. No full size truck gets anywhere near 24mpg, the 2.3 L fusion gets only 20mpg.
Now maybe if you have a jockey driving an empty polished F150 downwind, down a hill with a warmed up engine with an near empty tank with the radio and A/C turned off you can get the highway rating 20mpg.
Another possibility is the Internet Sales Manager just gets paid for brining people in, and gets a flat fee for every customer who shows up, and maybe a bonus or something extra if they buy. All depends on their pay plan.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
You are talking city and the OP was talking HWY and it is 21 not 24.
the All-New '09 F-150 features a three-engine lineup that provides excellent power and fuel economy. The robust 5.4L 3-valve SOHC V8 is E85 Flex-Fuel-capable and features Variable Cam Timing (VCT) for enhanced efficiency when hauling heavy loads. The new 4.6L 3-valve SOHC V8 delivers unsurpassed fuel economy at 21 mpg** and uses Charge Motion Control Valves to increase performance while reducing emissions. The 4.6L 2-valve V8 features increased horsepower and torque with the same fuel economy as the base engine it replaces. In fact, across the engine lineup, the New '09 F-150 provides greater horsepower and torque while delivering improved fuel economy.
**EPA-estimated 15 city/21 highway mpg, SuperCrew 2WD with SFE package.
And they evolved into one of the best engines ever built by anyone.
Superchargers were totally unnecessary on these cars. They had gobs of torque and they seem to last forever.
I had bought one of the first 1997.5 Regal GS that would do awesome front wheel burnouts. I had rented a vanilla Regal LS and while it would chirp the tires off the line, no way would it smoke it. Kinda reminded me of a friend's '66 Valiant with the 225 slant 6. It too would chirp the tires in first but that was about it.
You bought a Tacoma because you want a truck that will last you a long time and you see the value in the Toyota brand. The only problem I see with your purchase is that you disregarded the Edmunds TMV price, the invoice price, and bought the vehicle for as little as possible. They basically had to throw everything but the kitchen sink at you before you would purchase.
How many "quotes" did you go through before you decided to "pull the trigger"?
You basically denied the salesmen any chance at making a decent buck. He will probably split a $100 commission.
You want the truck, the Toyota name...but you don't want to pay for it. That is the mentality of the modern day American consumer.
Think about it....a guy sold you a $19,000 piece of equipment and he made $50 on the sale. In the best case scenario he made $100.
And you probably had to wait more then 10 minutes for the F&I guy to do the paperwork so you'll show your dissatisfaction by giving the salesmen a bad CSI survey.
A lot of people on this forum remind me of the ghouls who stampeded the poor Wal Mart worker out in New York.
"I WANT THE BEST.....BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT!!!!"
Buick V6 engine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Buick V6, initially marketed as Fireball at its introduction in 1962, is a large V6 engine used by General Motors. The block is made of cast iron and all use two-valve-per-cylinder iron heads, actuated by pushrods.
The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th century list, and is one of the most-produced engines in history. To date, over 25 million have been produced.
In 1967, GM sold the design to Kaiser-Jeep. The muscle car era had taken hold, and GM no longer felt the need to produce a V6, considered in North America an unusual engine configuration at the time. The energy crisis a decade later prompted the company to buy the design back from American Motors (AMC), who had by that point bought Kaiser-Jeep, and the descendants of the early 231 continue to be the most-common GM V6.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
$19,515 doesn't sound too unreasonable on a $22,500 truck...maybe 12% - 15% OFF MSRP.
Sounds like a very good price, but not stealing - with all the discounting going on!
Alej, should the salesman say he's got 4 starving children and he can't afford to give them homoginized milk at those prices?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have held off from saying this before but I seriously believe you're in the wrong business.
It wasn't the buyer's fault, it was the DEALER who "cheap sold" a great product and, yes, it is sad the market has been ruined the way it has.
A lot of quality people have left the business because of this.
For the sake of your well being, you may want to switch stores or careers.
As far as paying as "little as possible"... if that bothers you that much, I agree with what others have suggested, look for another line of work.
You REALLY need to find a new line of work. You're about to go postal on the next customer who offers you under invoice.
LOL And they say car salesmen don't have a sense of humor.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Richard
Richard
Oh please....after the customer gets an incredible deal and knows he's stealing the truck he now feigns concern for the "poor salesman" and the commission?
Gimme a break.
I've actually had more then one customer tell me that they wanted to make sure I didn't "make" anything on the sale. I can't imagine living life with such a chip on your shoulder.
Really?
Really?
You want to make sure that I provide you with a service and that I shouldn't be compensated for it?
I've never...in my life....worried about what a salesmen was making when I bought something. Never. Do you guys go to Best Buy and start giving grief to the kid working in the TV departement? Do you grill him about how much he's making and how you hope that he doesn't make anything by selling you a product?
And then you get this guy who buys a vehicle under invoice and then wants to know about the commission for the poor [non-permissible content removed] who had the displeasure of opening his email.
It's like you guys get into this deranged mental state when you go and buy a car. Wishing and hoping that the poor sap who walks up to you and says hello makes as little as possible.
I just want to go to the place of business of one of my customers and unload on them like they do when they stumble into the dealership. It's a dream of mine. Just stand over their shoulder and act like a tool.
A salesmen sold a Sequoia the other day and made a $7,500 payable. I don't feel one bit of compassion for the customer.
And you guys wonder why you get treated so poorly when you buy cars.
At first, I was concerned with your smiling and having a positive attitude. Now I am more concerned that you may have a bigger problem. If the dealership is doing this to you, try to find a showroom that will bring you back to your old self. If a career change is needed, try to make it happen. You just don't need to be this unhappy. I'm not trying to be a smart a-- or a know-it-all. I simply don't feel that you should continue this way. If we can help, just ask us for advice. We all have plenty of that I'm sure.
Richard
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I WANT THE BEST.....BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT!!!!"
No, I want the best for the particular money I'm willing to spend - or I do want the best and pay for it as little as necessary to get it. Just as much as you want to charge me for it as much as humanly possible.
If you want me to accept world of ADMs, phoney KBB reports, old-school pressure tactics, off-the-wall asking prices, you have to accept that with it comes world of people who would drive to another state to save $100. Not me, but there are some. YOU CANNOT HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. Just a matter of economics and pure psychology.
2018 430i Gran Coupe