I moved over to our Volvo/Saab franchise back in July and have been happy. It was a timely move since our Land Rover store has always struggled with used cars and the market around here has shifted almost entirely to used cars.
They are still moving units at Rover but at a much slower pace and almost non-existent margins. Our pay plan over there was set up to take advantage of large gross margins and not too much volume so trying to make money with no gross margin and even less volume was too tough.
jipster....not a bad choice in the bunch, IMHO! Fusion is interesting because you can get "Sync", if that's something that floats your boat. Drove one when looking at the Accord. Nice car. So is the Malibu. It's a little short in the "techy" dept, too. Drove a V6 which was nice. No idea what the 4 cyl would be like, though.
I can't say enough good things about the Hyundai considering my son's experiences with his Elantra. Mentioned a long while ago, I helped a friend buy a Sonata. It's every bit as refined as a Camry.
Agree about the Mazda 6. It's still in its honeymoon stage. But, I suspect pricing to drop on it in fairly short order, too....considering the general auto malaise.
I'm hoping all of you are speaking in jest about Mack. He's still around, right?
Ok so doing an internet search I find one with nearly 10K fewer miles for $4k less to one with 8K miles less for $400 more to one with few thousand more miles on it for $3K more so depending on the options and what he wants it was either a good or a bad deal. Again I will with hold judgement on his actions.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Maybe there was fine print. The ad wasn't on Monday. If it was there advertised at $14,000 and there was a catch the dealer is getting pretty desperate, and it would probably turn off most potential buyers. Then again, someone goes in dreaming about a new Impala. What I do see on the website though is lease for $149 a month, even that is pretty good but there has to be a catch.
At best it is completely dishonest, at worst it is false (unless you live in or near 90210). You even said it was to create a false market price.
So if you print one out using a 90210 zip code the value of the car will be higher then if you printed it our with a local Chicago zip code. Tricks of the trade.
And you wonder why after being presented with such "tricks of the trade" customers act so badly towards you and your profession.
It's not my sandbox...I'm just playing in it.
While true you still choose to play in it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It came into our shop leaking coolant yesterday. Turned out to be a corroded pile that is part of the engine block. The woman who owns it
OK, I’ll bite, what’s a “pile”?
I’ve heard of plugs and freeze plugs in the engine’s cooling system but never heard of a “pile”. Is this just another plus/extra you get when you buy a Honda? And I don’t want a “pile of shxx” for an answer like your service dept. gave that woman. :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"Sent me an email last week and he was very much alive."
Thanks for the update.
The earlier flippant comment threw me for a loop. As much as we all pump stuff back and forth, several on here have made a significant (positive) impact. Mack is certainly one.
Wait, you admit that you overprice your cars, then you get upset when an informed customer sees that and leaves?
That particular vehicle had been on the lot for more then 45 days and been reduced about 7K. 3-4K mark-up is for fresh units. I thought I made that clear earlier.
$31,991 is a great price for a 2006 400h. That's a unit we are looking to dump because of its age.
And what's the deal with these people who come in and use 5 different salesmen to drive 10 different cars?
Does anyone have any loyalty these days? Does anyone have any common courtesy?
You are assuming a level of knowledge and empathy on the part of the general public that is not there. Most people think of auto salespeople exactly the same as WalMart checkout lanes. One is as good as the other. And even if they get the idea of commision sales, they just don't care.
I had a co-worker that mentioned that he talked with a different salesman on each visit to the dealer when he bought his new truck. I asked why he didn't work with just one, and he said that he thought he could get a better deal by working one saleman against another at the same dealership! "Hey, I still got it from XYZ motors, so why should they care which salesman sold it? They are all working for the same company."
Let's just say that a dealership has to agree to full disclosure when they are trying to sell a car.
Would it go something like this at the store.....?
-We price our units $3,000 over true market value -We price our units based on KBB from a zip code that isn't close to our location, but will show a higher price, if you don't look close enough at the basis of our numbers -We are hoping to "rope a dope", someone totally unsuspecting, to pay these inflated prices on our cars. -We will prey on those who are insufficiently prepared to understand what the true value of the cars on our lots are
Don't get me wrong. Any store can price any car the way they see fit. And of course, "caveat emptor".
But, if all of the above, as has been described in these threads as actually happening, does anyone think this place would still be in business, if it was disclosed?
Fusion is interesting because you can get "Sync", if that's something that floats your boat.
May float my boat... what is it? :confuse:
I wouldn't have looked at a Hyundai 5 years ago. But, they have sure come a long way. If it were neck and neck between a Sonata and a Malibu, I would choose the Sonata due to the 5 year bumper to bumper warranty and 10 years on the powertrain. I suppose out of all the automakers, Hyundai and Kia will do the best in this now official recession that we are in.
You are assuming a level of knowledge and empathy on the part of the general public that is not there. Most people think of auto salespeople exactly the same as WalMart checkout lanes. One is as good as the other. And even if they get the idea of commission sales, they just don't care.
I think this is absolutely true. A lot of people are buying new for the first time, or buying used at a dealership, instead of private party ,for the first time, and still many other consumers have just not been educated on "common courtesy" when buying a car from a salesman. I think the ones that just don't care are in the minority. I would say it's up to the salesmen to "educate" the consumer when he/she enters their dealership, if it bothers them that much.
Careful... with off-topic posts like that you'll liable to be next (which I recommend), or another shut down of the discussion. These people know where we live!
jipster....Fusion's "SYNC" is Ford's entre into the "bluetooth phone" and Ipod integration fray. Only had a demo of it at an autoshow. But, it was pretty slick. Car's good, too.
While not the $14K deal I saw posted here, yesterday's local car ads showed a brand new Impala for $15K...power W/L, A/C, cruise, CD, etc. Seemed well equipped from the description. No fine print, either. GM's been making that model for awhile. So, they should have any kinks resolved. 100K power train warranty, too. That's a lot of car for the price of a stripped Corolla.
Don't know about Kia, but I wouldn't hesitate on the Sonata.
mikey....I'm one of those who sticks with one sales person. But, is that Chevy Malibu at dealer A any different than the one from dealer B? Nope.
Regarding people who try to "pit" one sales person against another, that's pretty silly, if you think about it. The sales people don't give the "yay" or "ney" on the deal. The SM does that.
Any customer that tries to pit one salesperson against another is just making themselves crazy by trying that. I would think that eventually, the sales people at the dealership will recognize this and try to avoid that customer like the plague.
I guess I'm easier on salespeople because I'm in sales myself (not automotive). The last few cars I've bought have all been pleasant experiences because I take the time to search for reputable dealerships. I did learn this the hard way, bought a car 12 years ago from "MR. BIG VOLUME!" here in Nashville. Painful lesson. Never again.
When I bought my wife her minivan in 05 at my current dealer, the sales and F&I people were great, not pushy, very polite. This was the second van I'd bought there, having been referred by a family member. Even the owner of the dealership came out and thanked me. When I take the van in for service, my salesman will greet me and he will invite me over to his cubicle and we talk fishing lures (his hobby) until my car is ready. I felt a little uncomfortable the first time this happened, thinking I was keeping him from selling something, but I found out he has been here so long that he doesn't even take ups anymore - he makes a good living off referrals. It might be a little different in the current market, though. Haven't been over there in a few months. He has even offered to let me take his demo car home (even overnight if necessary) until mine is ready. Says he'll have his wife come over and pick him up at quitting time. Haven't taken him up on it, but it's a nice gesture.
Where do you think I'm buying my next car? Or recommending a dealer to anyone else I know?
I got what I thought was a good deal on the van, but I also didn't try to grind the last $100 out of the deal. It's a two-way street.
Sorry Joel, even though I'm in your back yard, I'm loyal if nothing else. But if I ever need a Ford, I'll look you up. Those new F150's are very nice. Saw several up close at the auto show downtown last weekend.
Mack is NOT deceased, just retired from this forum. And we think that women get these things started...not funny at all.
The Big 3 revealed their plan: They sold their jets, fired some workers, and promised to invent some hybrids. If I couldn't come up with a better plan than that, I would have just stayed at home.
I wish I had that dealership loyalty. My current two cars are Honda's and each guy that sold me is no longer there. In fact, we recently left the this dealership over service department issues. The last straw, was when the transmission failed on the Ody (at 50K) miles and the service rep told my wife that the tranny was not covered under our 7yr/100k Honda care extended warranty..."but - he could get her a real nice deal on a replacement"
I had to call Honda Care, and initiate the claim process...then weny into service to correct them..and after a while the Service Mgr tells me he was sorry and the initial rep was a newbie and didn't know.---Maybe I could accept this, if that was my only issue but there were others similar to this.
My lease on my Pilot is coming due..and I would like nothing better to just call up a and say - :"hey joe- i enjoyed the Pilot - lets write up a new lease on the 2009" But now, I have to start over...and since I am doing that i might as well look at the Enclave, Highlander and the Flex (I need a 7/8 midsize crossover).
I bought a new 08 Impala last month that I posted about here. Although it's an 08, I got it for 8K off sticker, putting it at about 15.3K, plus tax, fees etc.
I also have an 06 SS Impala, trouble free, I only wish I could have gotten a deal on the 06 like I did on this one. GM didn't make a bunch on this last car.
richard....just saw that. Mullaly is saying he will only pay himself $1 if Ford has to tap into the federally funded money. Wagoner said he's going to drive a Malibu hybrid to the next round of meetings (guess my whining to my Senator and Congressman, which I mentioned the "big 3" execs should travel in their own products, got a look by someone).
Cerebus (Chrysler) made no concessions at all that I can tell. No wonder they're in as bad a shape as they are.
UAW agreed to cuts. Ford/GM salaried folks....no bonus, no merit increases (don't know how they could justify them to begin with). Ford is selling all of their corporate jets.
All in all, better (at least from a symbolic point of view). But, I still haven't heard how they plan to make their business sustainable over the long haul. And, how they play to pay us back, if they do indeed need to tap into the federal funds (our money).
I haven't heard GM say that they have overcapacity. I still haven't heard them say that they plan on cutting some brands. Same goes for Ford.
Who the hell knows what Cerebus is planning for Chrysler. All I can see them doing is saying "give us money". No concrete plans at all, as best I can tell.
I just heard on the radio that a Ford dealer in Michigan is offering 10 shares of Ford stock to anyone who test-drives his cars. Very clever. At current prices that's about $28. I wonder if joel would give me a few shares to drive a Mustang?
Also heard a rumor that the UAW will agree to get rid of the "job bank" which pays workers who have been laid off their full salary to do nothing.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The Big 3 revealed their plan: They sold their jets, fired some workers, and promised to invent some hybrids. If I couldn't come up with a better plan than that, I would have just stayed at home.
Dang you sound just like the Media, lumping us all together. You left the part out where ford said "We don't really need the money" If we accept it we will use it in case of emergency in the next two years and Ford CEO Alan Mulally said he'll work for $1 per year if the company has to take any government loan money.
Ford tells Congress profit may be restored in 2011
Amy Wilson
Automotive News | December 2, 2008 - 10:25 am EST
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co., the first of the Detroit 3 to submit its plan to qualify for federal aid, says it doesn’t expect to make money until at least 2011.
That’s when Ford expects global and North American auto businesses to reach break-even or be profitable on a pretax basis, according to a news release summarizing its plan to Congress. In May, Ford abandoned a previous pledge to post a profit in 2009. The automaker has lost money every year since 2005.
Ford also said it is asking Congress for access to as much as $9 billion in federal loans. The company stressed that management hopes to complete its turnaround without accessing the loans.
“For Ford, government loans would serve as a critical backstop or safeguard against worsening conditions as we drive transformational change in our company,” Ford CEO Alan Mulally said in the release.
Selling the jets
Mulally said he would work for a salary of $1 a year if Ford draws money from a potential federal loan pool. Ford also said today that it would sell its five jets.
Those moves are responses to widespread criticism of the Detroit 3 after Congressional hearings in November on federal bailout money for the automakers.
The CEOs of Ford, General Motors and Chrysler LLC were lambasted for traveling to the hearings in separate corporate jets. Mulally plans to make the nine-hour drive to Washington in a Ford Escape Hybrid for another round of Congressional hearings this week.
The high pay packages of the Detroit 3 CEOs also came under scrutiny during the hearings. At that time, Mulally declined to work for less than his $2 million salary, saying “I think I’m OK where I am.” Mulally’s total compensation package was $21.7 million in 2007.
Ford reiterated that it would continue the turnaround plan Mulally implemented after arriving from Boeing in September 2006. A key tenet of that plan is to accelerate the development of new products that customers want. As part of that, Ford has said it will introduce several small European-developed cars in the United States beginning in early 2010.
Technology spending
Today, Ford said it would spend $14 billion in the United States on advanced technologies and products to improve fuel efficiency during the next seven years. That includes a plan to make available for sale a family of new hybrids, plug-in hybrids and battery electric vehicles by 2012.
Ford said it will partner with suppliers to deliver a full battery electric van for commercial fleet use in 2010 and an electric sedan in 2011.
Ford also said it is discussing with the UAW ways to further reduce costs and eliminate the remaining labor cost gap existing between Ford and import-brand automakers.
Ford said it doesn’t anticipate a liquidity crisis in 2009 barring a bankruptcy by General Motors or Chrysler LLC -- or a more severe economic downturn that further hurts auto sales. It expects U.S. industry sales of 12.5 million vehicles in 2009, bouncing back to 14.5 million vehicles in 2010 and 15.5 vehicles in 2011.
Ford finished the third quarter of 2008 with $18.9 billion of cash and another $10.7 billion in available credit lines. The automaker burned through $7.7 billion in cash during the third quarter, a rate of $2.57 billion a month.
‘Home improvement loan’
Ford wants to convince Congress and U.S. taxpayers that it should be seen as “different” from GM and Chrysler. To that effort, Ford today launched a new web site, www.thefordstory.com. It includes a youtube.com video of CEO Alan Mulally talking about Ford’s turnaround vision.
In the video, Mulally said Ford is asking for access to federal loans in part because the failure of GM or Chrysler could have a “domino effect” on Ford.
“I like our position today, as tough as it is,” Mulally says in the video. He talks about the $23 billion “home improvement” loan Ford took out two years ago to finance its turnaround and the development of new products.
“Now we have in the pipeline what arguably everybody believes is the best product lineup we’ve ever had at Ford,” he said. “I’m just so glad that we all pulled together early so that we are ready to take on the worst of times. And we’ll get through this and we’ll come out the other end as a turbo machine.”
joel....I understand what you're saying, but if Ford "doesn't really need the money", what's Mullaly doing begging for it?
Hate to sound so pessimistic, but these guys have been jerking around Congress and the American public for months, now. Know what? I want the UAWs and exec management's skin in this game for the bailout. That includes privately held Cerebus. They took a bad situation courtesy of Daimler and made it worse at Chrysler. Personally, I think Congress should tell Cerebus to plead their case with Daimler. They're both to blame, anyway. Wagoner has been sitting fat, dumb and happy for years at GM. UAW has been just as arrogant as the big 3 management. They've got to throw into the pot, too.
Let's take Mullaly at face value. He doesn't need the money? He doesn't get the money.
Because if they DON'T approve the Bridge Loan then we are screwed. We can survive on our own as long as GM gets a loan. If they go under then Ford will have major problems
>joel....I understand what you're saying, but if Ford "doesn't really need the money", what's Mullaly doing begging for it?
It is money. The more in the bank, the merrier!!! If somebody was willing to give me a million bucks, I would take it right now. It is another story that I don't know what to do with it :P
It's a 2006 400h with 39,000 miles and we are selling it for $31,991. The customer didn't know that it was a hybrid. Of course, when he dismissed me with his hand gesture I wasn't about to go chase him down and reveal that information to him. He was one of those guys that you are better off letting go.
Doesn't seem that unreasonable based on a quick search of my area; certainly not a "hand gesture" sort of price.
You really see how the retail world is evolving. They demand the best but they don't want to pay for it.
"Everybody wants to make big bucks -- nobody wants to pay 'em" ---my uncle's quote
We overprice our vehicles by 3-4K on EVERY SINGLE UNIT. Of course, when no one cracks the door on our vehicle for 45 days we reduce the hell out of it but that's beside the point...
Then we see if we can rope some dope into buying it at that price. It's up to the customer to try and get a price that makes sense. We nail some people on the sticker prices, especially if it's a CPO and we can justify it with the warranty. But the point is that the prices on the windows are for the people who come in blind and want to buy now.
We even print out these corny Kelly Blue Books from the 90210 area code to present a false market price that is more in line with what we want to get for the car.
:surprise: :surprise: I hope you are not using your real name as your user id. It might get nasty if your boss or competitors can put two and two together.
I just can't believe that there are that many people with "hot pants" who run out and buy a car without any research.
Thinking back over the last hundred or so car conversations I've overheard over the past few years, I don't recall anyone ever mentioning the word "Edmunds" in any of them. I am usually amazed at what I hear. Most folks seem to think if they got a wad off of sticker, they've done good. $2000 off of sticker might be a steal or it might be a fleecing -- they don't seem to really know. Ignorance is bliss. Edmunds regulars know the skinny. I wouldn't have any idea what a used John Deere is worth, nor what a good price on a Dolce&Gabbana pocketbook would be....
But now, I have to start over...and since I am doing that i might as well look at the Enclave, Highlander and the Flex (I need a 7/8 midsize crossover).
Have you ever seen the interior seating room in a Highlander? Unless you're carrying a cargo of anorexic midget wrestlers, there will not be enough room to seat 7. The 3rd row back seat is very very small, with poor access.
I'd go for the Enclave. Very nice... pretty good rebates on them as well.
joel....see, that's where I don't make the connection. How does it matter if GM goes under with Ford drowning right along side of them. If anything, if GM did indeed go under, Ford gets a bigger piece of the pie.
Mullaly's reasoning makes no sense to me. If he really believes that, I suggest the Ford family begin a new CEO search.
Again, this is OUR money we're talking about here. I want more accountability before we hand a nickel over to any of them. More models isn't going to solve the dilemma. Fewer models (and brands) with fewer plants, fewer employees, less cash going out, will solve it though. I'm still not hearing any of that. I'm just hearing empty promises.
When I looked at the Highlander back in 2005, I really enjoyed the ride. In fact, I thought it had the best car ride of all the cars I looked at (sans the Range Rover, but that was out of my price point- sorry british rover) But at that time I was a 2 car seat plus 2 booster seat parent. And you are correct, there was no way two boosters seats would fit into the 3rd row.
Today, I am down to 1 car seat and 1 booster and 2 kids. And the new priority is cargo area behind the 3rd row that will fit either the baseball equipment bag or the hockey gear.
I was focused on just getting the '09 Pilot, but was impressed with the pics I saw online with the Enclave and swayed by Consumer Reports and Edmunds Reviews on the Flex. But then can a guy under 40 own a Buick? Or will I have to send my father in with the car when it gets serviced?? lol.
I looked at the Highlander back in 2004. It was very nice. Didn't need 3rd row seating, but I recall thinking only small children would be able to fit into the available space. I recall there not being very much cargo room in the back with the 3rd row seat up. We needed something a bit bigger and ended up with a Mazda MPV, which reminded me a lot of the Highlander the way it drove (good handling).
But then can a guy under 40 own a Buick?
Sure can. Look at what it's done for Tiger Woods. :shades:
Unfortantely, Tiger and Buick recently agreed to end their 8 year relationship, with Tiger being their spokesman. So, it will be interesting to see which automaker forks over the millions to make Tiger their new spokesman. Can you see Tiger driving a Kia? :surprise:
Comments
Mack who?
Whats going on guys? Is anyone ready to shoot themselves yet after last month?
Mackabee I'm assuming. He's the only guy we ever called Mack.
They are still moving units at Rover but at a much slower pace and almost non-existent margins. Our pay plan over there was set up to take advantage of large gross margins and not too much volume so trying to make money with no gross margin and even less volume was too tough.
No. We're going to shoot you. You know how we worry when we don't hear from you.....
I can't say enough good things about the Hyundai considering my son's experiences with his Elantra. Mentioned a long while ago, I helped a friend buy a Sonata. It's every bit as refined as a Camry.
Agree about the Mazda 6. It's still in its honeymoon stage. But, I suspect pricing to drop on it in fairly short order, too....considering the general auto malaise.
I'm hoping all of you are speaking in jest about Mack. He's still around, right?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yah Yah I was just commenting in case he was lurking.
Ok so doing an internet search I find one with nearly 10K fewer miles for $4k less to one with 8K miles less for $400 more to one with few thousand more miles on it for $3K more so depending on the options and what he wants it was either a good or a bad deal. Again I will with hold judgement on his actions.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
* after $3000 down or trade-in value
Maybe there was fine print. The ad wasn't on Monday. If it was there advertised at $14,000 and there was a catch the dealer is getting pretty desperate, and it would probably turn off most potential buyers. Then again, someone goes in dreaming about a new Impala. What I do see on the website though is lease for $149 a month, even that is pretty good but there has to be a catch.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That begs the question, how do you know he didn't know?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Wait, you admit that you overprice your cars, then you get upset when an informed customer sees that and leaves? :confuse:
More and more I lean towards siding with that guy that asked about the Lexus.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
At best it is completely dishonest, at worst it is false (unless you live in or near 90210). You even said it was to create a false market price.
So if you print one out using a 90210 zip code the value of the car will be higher then if you printed it our with a local Chicago zip code. Tricks of the trade.
And you wonder why after being presented with such "tricks of the trade" customers act so badly towards you and your profession.
It's not my sandbox...I'm just playing in it.
While true you still choose to play in it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I hope he stays that way for a long time!
OK, I’ll bite, what’s a “pile”?
I’ve heard of plugs and freeze plugs in the engine’s cooling system but never heard of a “pile”. Is this just another plus/extra you get when you buy a Honda? And I don’t want a “pile of shxx” for an answer like your service dept. gave that woman. :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Thanks for the update.
The earlier flippant comment threw me for a loop. As much as we all pump stuff back and forth, several on here have made a significant (positive) impact. Mack is certainly one.
Best to him.
That particular vehicle had been on the lot for more then 45 days and been reduced about 7K. 3-4K mark-up is for fresh units. I thought I made that clear earlier.
$31,991 is a great price for a 2006 400h. That's a unit we are looking to dump because of its age.
Thanks 'isell'.
I don't know who the OP was that started that but that stuff ain't funny. Scared the hell out of me. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
TO BE CONTINUED......
Does anyone have any loyalty these days? Does anyone have any common courtesy?
You are assuming a level of knowledge and empathy on the part of the general public that is not there. Most people think of auto salespeople exactly the same as WalMart checkout lanes. One is as good as the other. And even if they get the idea of commision sales, they just don't care.
I had a co-worker that mentioned that he talked with a different salesman on each visit to the dealer when he bought his new truck. I asked why he didn't work with just one, and he said that he thought he could get a better deal by working one saleman against another at the same dealership! "Hey, I still got it from XYZ motors, so why should they care which salesman sold it? They are all working for the same company."
Mikey
Would it go something like this at the store.....?
-We price our units $3,000 over true market value
-We price our units based on KBB from a zip code that isn't close to our location, but will show a higher price, if you don't look close enough at the basis of our numbers
-We are hoping to "rope a dope", someone totally unsuspecting, to pay these inflated prices on our cars.
-We will prey on those who are insufficiently prepared to understand what the true value of the cars on our lots are
Don't get me wrong. Any store can price any car the way they see fit. And of course, "caveat emptor".
But, if all of the above, as has been described in these threads as actually happening, does anyone think this place would still be in business, if it was disclosed?
May float my boat... what is it? :confuse:
I wouldn't have looked at a Hyundai 5 years ago. But, they have sure come a long way. If it were neck and neck between a Sonata and a Malibu, I would choose the Sonata due to the 5 year bumper to bumper warranty and 10 years on the powertrain. I suppose out of all the automakers, Hyundai and Kia will do the best in this now official recession that we are in.
I think this is absolutely true. A lot of people are buying new for the first time, or buying used at a dealership, instead of private party ,for the first time, and still many other consumers have just not been educated on "common courtesy" when buying a car from a salesman. I think the ones that just don't care are in the minority. I would say it's up to the salesmen to "educate" the consumer when he/she enters their dealership, if it bothers them that much.
While not the $14K deal I saw posted here, yesterday's local car ads showed a brand new Impala for $15K...power W/L, A/C, cruise, CD, etc. Seemed well equipped from the description. No fine print, either. GM's been making that model for awhile. So, they should have any kinks resolved. 100K power train warranty, too. That's a lot of car for the price of a stripped Corolla.
Don't know about Kia, but I wouldn't hesitate on the Sonata.
Lots of good new cars going for cheap these days.
Regarding people who try to "pit" one sales person against another, that's pretty silly, if you think about it. The sales people don't give the "yay" or "ney" on the deal. The SM does that.
Any customer that tries to pit one salesperson against another is just making themselves crazy by trying that. I would think that eventually, the sales people at the dealership will recognize this and try to avoid that customer like the plague.
When I bought my wife her minivan in 05 at my current dealer, the sales and F&I people were great, not pushy, very polite. This was the second van I'd bought there, having been referred by a family member. Even the owner of the dealership came out and thanked me. When I take the van in for service, my salesman will greet me and he will invite me over to his cubicle and we talk fishing lures (his hobby) until my car is ready. I felt a little uncomfortable the first time this happened, thinking I was keeping him from selling something, but I found out he has been here so long that he doesn't even take ups anymore - he makes a good living off referrals. It might be a little different in the current market, though. Haven't been over there in a few months. He has even offered to let me take his demo car home (even overnight if necessary) until mine is ready. Says he'll have his wife come over and pick him up at quitting time. Haven't taken him up on it, but it's a nice gesture.
Where do you think I'm buying my next car? Or recommending a dealer to anyone else I know?
I got what I thought was a good deal on the van, but I also didn't try to grind the last $100 out of the deal. It's a two-way street.
Sorry Joel, even though I'm in your back yard, I'm loyal if nothing else. But if I ever need a Ford, I'll look you up. Those new F150's are very nice. Saw several up close at the auto show downtown last weekend.
Mikey
The Big 3 revealed their plan: They sold their jets, fired some workers, and promised to invent some hybrids. If I couldn't come up with a better plan than that, I would have just stayed at home.
Richard
I had to call Honda Care, and initiate the claim process...then weny into service to correct them..and after a while the Service Mgr tells me he was sorry and the initial rep was a newbie and didn't know.---Maybe I could accept this, if that was my only issue but there were others similar to this.
My lease on my Pilot is coming due..and I would like nothing better to just call up a and say - :"hey joe- i enjoyed the Pilot - lets write up a new lease on the 2009"
But now, I have to start over...and since I am doing that i might as well look at the Enclave, Highlander and the Flex (I need a 7/8 midsize crossover).
I also have an 06 SS Impala, trouble free, I only wish I could have gotten a deal on the 06 like I did on this one. GM didn't make a bunch on this last car.
Cerebus (Chrysler) made no concessions at all that I can tell. No wonder they're in as bad a shape as they are.
UAW agreed to cuts. Ford/GM salaried folks....no bonus, no merit increases (don't know how they could justify them to begin with). Ford is selling all of their corporate jets.
All in all, better (at least from a symbolic point of view). But, I still haven't heard how they plan to make their business sustainable over the long haul. And, how they play to pay us back, if they do indeed need to tap into the federal funds (our money).
I haven't heard GM say that they have overcapacity. I still haven't heard them say that they plan on cutting some brands. Same goes for Ford.
Who the hell knows what Cerebus is planning for Chrysler. All I can see them doing is saying "give us money". No concrete plans at all, as best I can tell.
Also heard a rumor that the UAW will agree to get rid of the "job bank" which pays workers who have been laid off their full salary to do nothing.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Dang you sound just like the Media, lumping us all together.
Ford tells Congress profit may be restored in 2011
Amy Wilson
Automotive News | December 2, 2008 - 10:25 am EST
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co., the first of the Detroit 3 to submit its plan to qualify for federal aid, says it doesn’t expect to make money until at least 2011.
That’s when Ford expects global and North American auto businesses to reach break-even or be profitable on a pretax basis, according to a news release summarizing its plan to Congress. In May, Ford abandoned a previous pledge to post a profit in 2009. The automaker has lost money every year since 2005.
Ford also said it is asking Congress for access to as much as $9 billion in federal loans. The company stressed that management hopes to complete its turnaround without accessing the loans.
“For Ford, government loans would serve as a critical backstop or safeguard against worsening conditions as we drive transformational change in our company,” Ford CEO Alan Mulally said in the release.
Selling the jets
Mulally said he would work for a salary of $1 a year if Ford draws money from a potential federal loan pool. Ford also said today that it would sell its five jets.
Those moves are responses to widespread criticism of the Detroit 3 after Congressional hearings in November on federal bailout money for the automakers.
The CEOs of Ford, General Motors and Chrysler LLC were lambasted for traveling to the hearings in separate corporate jets. Mulally plans to make the nine-hour drive to Washington in a Ford Escape Hybrid for another round of Congressional hearings this week.
The high pay packages of the Detroit 3 CEOs also came under scrutiny during the hearings. At that time, Mulally declined to work for less than his $2 million salary, saying “I think I’m OK where I am.” Mulally’s total compensation package was $21.7 million in 2007.
Ford reiterated that it would continue the turnaround plan Mulally implemented after arriving from Boeing in September 2006. A key tenet of that plan is to accelerate the development of new products that customers want. As part of that, Ford has said it will introduce several small European-developed cars in the United States beginning in early 2010.
Technology spending
Today, Ford said it would spend $14 billion in the United States on advanced technologies and products to improve fuel efficiency during the next seven years. That includes a plan to make available for sale a family of new hybrids, plug-in hybrids and battery electric vehicles by 2012.
Ford said it will partner with suppliers to deliver a full battery electric van for commercial fleet use in 2010 and an electric sedan in 2011.
Ford also said it is discussing with the UAW ways to further reduce costs and eliminate the remaining labor cost gap existing between Ford and import-brand automakers.
Ford said it doesn’t anticipate a liquidity crisis in 2009 barring a bankruptcy by General Motors or Chrysler LLC -- or a more severe economic downturn that further hurts auto sales. It expects U.S. industry sales of 12.5 million vehicles in 2009, bouncing back to 14.5 million vehicles in 2010 and 15.5 vehicles in 2011.
Ford finished the third quarter of 2008 with $18.9 billion of cash and another $10.7 billion in available credit lines. The automaker burned through $7.7 billion in cash during the third quarter, a rate of $2.57 billion a month.
‘Home improvement loan’
Ford wants to convince Congress and U.S. taxpayers that it should be seen as “different” from GM and Chrysler. To that effort, Ford today launched a new web site, www.thefordstory.com. It includes a youtube.com video of CEO Alan Mulally talking about Ford’s turnaround vision.
In the video, Mulally said Ford is asking for access to federal loans in part because the failure of GM or Chrysler could have a “domino effect” on Ford.
“I like our position today, as tough as it is,” Mulally says in the video. He talks about the $23 billion “home improvement” loan Ford took out two years ago to finance its turnaround and the development of new products.
“Now we have in the pipeline what arguably everybody believes is the best product lineup we’ve ever had at Ford,” he said. “I’m just so glad that we all pulled together early so that we are ready to take on the worst of times. And we’ll get through this and we’ll come out the other end as a turbo machine.”
Hate to sound so pessimistic, but these guys have been jerking around Congress and the American public for months, now. Know what? I want the UAWs and exec management's skin in this game for the bailout. That includes privately held Cerebus. They took a bad situation courtesy of Daimler and made it worse at Chrysler. Personally, I think Congress should tell Cerebus to plead their case with Daimler. They're both to blame, anyway. Wagoner has been sitting fat, dumb and happy for years at GM. UAW has been just as arrogant as the big 3 management. They've got to throw into the pot, too.
Let's take Mullaly at face value. He doesn't need the money? He doesn't get the money.
It is money. The more in the bank, the merrier!!!
If somebody was willing to give me a million bucks, I would take it right now. It is another story that I don't know what to do with it :P
Doesn't seem that unreasonable based on a quick search of my area; certainly not a "hand gesture" sort of price.
You really see how the retail world is evolving. They demand the best but they don't want to pay for it.
"Everybody wants to make big bucks -- nobody wants to pay 'em" ---my uncle's quote
We overprice our vehicles by 3-4K on EVERY SINGLE UNIT. Of course, when no one cracks the door on our vehicle for 45 days we reduce the hell out of it but that's beside the point...
Then we see if we can rope some dope into buying it at that price. It's up to the customer to try and get a price that makes sense. We nail some people on the sticker prices, especially if it's a CPO and we can justify it with the warranty. But the point is that the prices on the windows are for the people who come in blind and want to buy now.
We even print out these corny Kelly Blue Books from the 90210 area code to present a false market price that is more in line with what we want to get for the car.
:surprise: :surprise: I hope you are not using your real name as your user id. It might get nasty if your boss or competitors can put two and two together.
I just can't believe that there are that many people with "hot pants" who run out and buy a car without any research.
Thinking back over the last hundred or so car conversations I've overheard over the past few years, I don't recall anyone ever mentioning the word "Edmunds" in any of them. I am usually amazed at what I hear. Most folks seem to think if they got a wad off of sticker, they've done good. $2000 off of sticker might be a steal or it might be a fleecing -- they don't seem to really know. Ignorance is bliss. Edmunds regulars know the skinny. I wouldn't have any idea what a used John Deere is worth, nor what a good price on a Dolce&Gabbana pocketbook would be....
Have you ever seen the interior seating room in a Highlander? Unless you're carrying a cargo of anorexic midget wrestlers, there will not be enough room to seat 7. The 3rd row back seat is very very small, with poor access.
I'd go for the Enclave. Very nice... pretty good rebates on them as well.
Mullaly's reasoning makes no sense to me. If he really believes that, I suggest the Ford family begin a new CEO search.
Again, this is OUR money we're talking about here. I want more accountability before we hand a nickel over to any of them. More models isn't going to solve the dilemma. Fewer models (and brands) with fewer plants, fewer employees, less cash going out, will solve it though. I'm still not hearing any of that. I'm just hearing empty promises.
Today, I am down to 1 car seat and 1 booster and 2 kids. And the new priority is cargo area behind the 3rd row that will fit either the baseball equipment bag or the hockey gear.
I was focused on just getting the '09 Pilot, but was impressed with the pics I saw online with the Enclave and swayed by Consumer Reports and Edmunds Reviews on the Flex. But then can a guy under 40 own a Buick? Or will I have to send my father in with the car when it gets serviced?? lol.
But then can a guy under 40 own a Buick?
Sure can. Look at what it's done for Tiger Woods. :shades:
Unfortantely, Tiger and Buick recently agreed to end their 8 year relationship, with Tiger being their spokesman. So, it will be interesting to see which automaker forks over the millions to make Tiger their new spokesman. Can you see Tiger driving a Kia? :surprise:
True. Don't think that Alan Mulally would want someone on Ford's payroll making more than he does.