BR, Do you think your experiences are very different because you are selling a premium brand versus something like Ford or Honda? I would think people buying a premium brand would be more pushy and "high maintenance" but the people looking at more transportation type vehicles would be more about the deal.
First are those who act like everyone should bow down to them because they have money and want to make sure you know it - ie "Do you know who I am"?
Second are those who have so much money that they can't get caught up in the details of spending it - ie "Yeah you have it in blue optioned as I want it, it's 75K, and I can get it tomorrow? OK, write it up."
Yeah we see both extremes. I have one client who is very high maintance but he is a very nice guy. He is just very particular and likes things a certain way and likes to be treated a certain way. He is a self made man but he knows when to pinch pennies and when to spend it. His only real vice is expensive vehicles and he buys on average three cars a year from me. He is buying his third car this year next week. His family and friends buy a couple of cars a year from me as well.
He knows when to pay a profit and has no problem doing so because of the service he gets from it. When he needs a service loaner our GM gives up his range rover demo for however long this client needs it. If his car has a problem he doesn't need to make an appointment just call one of us and we will make sure service gets it in right away.
Good to see that BR gets it. For some reason, it seems like auto service these days is less about servicing the customer and more about the dealership servicing themselves. What ever happened to the customer first ideal? Don't bother getting into a service-based industry if that is not in your nature or scruples. Duh. I deal with, hear about or even interview with too many idiots who don't understand basic, common courtesy that would keep many customers happy time and again.
Second are those who have so much money that they can't get caught up in the details of spending it
This line reminds of a story. I have a friend who used to be a personal assistant to a rich family, net worth about 70M at the time. One day the wife calls the assistant and asks her to find the guy who installed their stereo system for 10K, because she is not happy with it and wants her money back. The assistant asked if she wrote his name in the check registry when she gave him a 10K check. Reply: “Oh dear, I can’t be bothered with that!”
I have a friend who used to be a personal assistant to a rich family,
I would presume that this is old money, a family who inherited the money. My experience is that since these people really didn't earn it they don't watch it to carefully.
Its the self made ones that have very good records and now where their money is coming from and going to.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have a nice watch that was given to me several years ago. I don't think it's particularly flashy. I try to wear it every day because it's self-winding, and it can't go unworn or unwound for more than a couple of days without stopping.
Almost without fail, the salesperson will mention it as a topic of discussion when I test drive a car. I guess this is a testament to their ability at reading people, as I'm usually wearing jeans, a t-shirt, and sneakers when I visit a dealership.
Personally, I seldom notice what model of watch or other accessory people are wearing--I may notice that one looks different or interesting, but don't specifically look for the make and model.
I don't know how or if this might affect the negotiating process, but I try to remember to take it off when I visit a dealership, as I find it a little unnerving.
I think it's a little weird that it gets commented on so frequently in that context, when it doesn't really attract any attention otherwise. Maybe I could do some kind of sociological study. :P
Not to get off on another "off-topic" (like cigars and bourbon), but watches interest me, too.
I've seen people who spend a fortune on diamond encursted watches......only to see that it's a "quartz" movement. The better wathes out there are manual (self winding mechanical movements).....more complex, harder to make. They aren't any more accurate than quartz watches. You just appreciate the time, craftsmanship and effort it takes to make them.
Onto another sales story.....many, many years ago, I was in the market for a new car. I had recently graduated from college and got married. Got my first new job post graduation and had some money in my pocket. At my (then) wife's insistence, I was trying to deal on a Chevy Citation. Forget for a second that it was one of the most poorly made cars I've ever had, it's what the wife wanted.
Did my best to "make a deal" on one. Thought that it took hours to get a good deal. Come to find out, not only had I wasted a lot of time negotiating (not knowing what the market was for the car), I also took the way overpriced wax job and etching.
Couple of days later, the dealership calls and tells me with my credit I needed to come up with another to keep the payment where I had negotiated it (yes, I negotiated the payment, not the price of the car). Well, as embarassing as it was, I took my father back into the dealership with me. He, being a veteran car buyer, asked to see the original paperwork I had signed. Come to find out, not only had I paid very close to MSRP for the car, the added wax and etching is what put the car over my monthly budget. I coudln't do anything about the price I paid, but my father told the dealership to forget about financing. He said he would finance the car for me. Shocked, they started to back pedal and all of a sudden, I didn't need an extra $1,000 on my deal. In addition, they dropped the cost of the wax and ethcing by over 2/3 (still way overpriced).
My father wrote them a check for the entire amount. He then took me to his bank. I didn't need him as a co-signer and they gave me a loan rate that was a whole 3 points less than what the dealership offered. I got the loan through the bank and my father got the check from the bank.
Lesson learned.....don't go into a dealership without knowing how your credit stacks up....and don't go in unprepared....not knowing what the market price is for the car.
They aren't any more accurate than quartz watches. You just appreciate the time, craftsmanship and effort it takes to make them.
I wouldn't say that, I have an old Missouri pacific Railroad watch from the late 1800's that keeps better time than most of todays quartz watches.
Lesson learned.....don't go into a dealership without knowing how your credit stacks up....and don't go in unprepared....not knowing what the market price is for the car.
I would say don't go into the dealership without already having the financing already in place. Actually I would have left that dealership in the dust.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
" Its the self made ones that have very good records and now where their money is coming from and going to. "
Just like in the book "Millionaire next door", it's the third generation that takes the family business down the tubes. The first generation started the family business, who passed it down to generation #2, who grew up when money was still tight. But the 3rd generation was born with a silver spoon in their mouth and never learned the value of money.
I guess "old money" becomes such when business survives somehow third/fourth generations and creates self-protective schemes (trusts, custodys etc). I guess the self-made guy is a bit too busy building business to think about saving it from future destruction vy the grandson...
IRRC you bought a Corvette before this with a lot of dealer extras, and your dad gave you a hard time. How many purchases did it take before you got good at buying cars? I know you are very good at it now. (Easy-peesy!)
driveright.....never had a Corvette. Thought about buying a neighbor's 'vette when he was going through a divorce, but never pulled the trigger.
I've made my share of boneheaded mistakes buying cars. I've bought used cars from private owners who masked serious problems with them (lesson....get an independent mechanic to look at private owner cars). Did my fair share of being a shade tree mechanic myself, so now I know what to look for in the way of costly repairs.
Unless someone is "in the business", I don't know if you get good at buying cars. It's certainly easier today since there's a wealth of information available about invoice, holdback, rebates, etc. 20 years ago, you just had to guess at what a car could be bought for. I used to figure I could buy a car at 13% off MSRP. That was before Edmunds and before Kelly Blue Book, NADA, etc type guides were available to the general public.
My father is the one that taught me never to be a payment buyer...and to know that if I was financing, what the payment would be before I walked into the dealership. Know what interest rate you can get and then just plug in your number with interest, TTL and you get your payment. Don't rely on the dealership to do it for you.
The fewer variables you leave to chance at the dealership, the better....that includes price.
Every purchase, at least for me, is different. I've come to the point where I've got a good idea of what can/can't be done when buying any car. Made plenty of mistakes along the way, too. Hopefully, we all learn from our mistakes.
I've bought, or helped someone buy, enough cars where I've seen most of the "gotchas" and know what to look for. I know a few people in the car biz, so I've got a little peak into how dealerships are run and how they make money. That's helpful.
I don't like to take a lot of time at the negotiating table. And, I like to keep it simple. Having confidence in my "number" is probably what makes it easy. If someone won't do it in one place, someone else will, somewhere else.
No matter what number I throw on the table for any vehicle, I know the dealership is going to try to "bump" that number up. Having confidence in my number allows me to resist the bump because I'm willing to walk on the deal and go somewhere else. Being willing to walk away from any deal you aren't comfortable with is probably the best advice I can give. Dealerships know that if you walk out without a deal, you likely won't be back. They don't want you to walk.
The rest of it is really just common sense. Don't fall in love with any vehicle. Read the car ads in your local paper to see what other dealerships are offering. Know what you can/can't afford. Know what the dealership's stock situation is on the model you're interested in (the more they have, the more likely they are to take a "skinny deal"). Let them know you're a buyer and not a tire kicker. They're more likely to get to the deal. On most common cars, a 2-3 hundred over invoice will get the deal done. They'll try to bump it, but if you stick to your guns, they'll be willing to make a quick & skinny deal. BMWs, Porsches, Audis, Mercedes, etc are a bit different. A few hundred over invoice probably won't get it done unless there's factory support. But, at the end of a model year, even the high end import dealers will take skinny deals.
The more dealerships there are in your area for the model you're interested in, the better. If the dealer is good, they'll know what their competition will/won't do. And, they don't want to get beat out by their competition.
Middle of the week....middle of the day....is a good time to deal, too. They're slow and a little hungrier to move iron....and more likely to take a skinny deal.
Be realistic. The dealership knows that you aren't likely to make a $1,000 under invoice deal on good car (unless there's facotry money thrown at it). There's exceptions to that rule, but in general, you're asking for a bump up if you come in unrealistically low. The more you're bumped, the more you will be paying...maybe even more than you originally planned. The longer you're at the negotiating table, the more you're being bumped and the more time you have invested in the deal (and less likely to walk).
Snake....I've got an old Tissot automatic. I've beat it to death. It's a "Seamaster". The band is made of rubber. It doesn't look like much, but it's my everyday watch. Keeps time as well as any quartz I've owned and has never failed me.
Snake....I've got an old Tissot automatic. I've beat it to death. It's a "Seamaster". The band is made of rubber. It doesn't look like much, but it's my everyday watch. Keeps time as well as any quartz I've owned and has never failed me.
It's probably time to stop buying your quartz watches at Wal-Mart, because there is no way a mechanical watch (even a self-winder) can approach the accuracy of a decent quartz watch.
driveright.....never had a Corvette. Thought about buying a neighbor's 'vette when he was going through a divorce, but never pulled the trigger.
I've made my share of boneheaded mistakes buying cars. I've bought used cars from private owners who masked serious problems with them (lesson....get an independent mechanic to look at private owner cars). Did my fair share of being a shade tree mechanic myself, so now I know what to look for in the way of costly repairs.
Unless someone is "in the business", I don't know if you get good at buying cars. It's certainly easier today since there's a wealth of information available about invoice, holdback, rebates, etc. 20 years ago, you just had to guess at what a car could be bought for. I used to figure I could buy a car at 13% off MSRP. That was before Edmunds and before Kelly Blue Book, NADA, etc type guides were available to the general public.
My father is the one that taught me never to be a payment buyer...and to know that if I was financing, what the payment would be before I walked into the dealership. Know what interest rate you can get and then just plug in your number with interest, TTL and you get your payment. Don't rely on the dealership to do it for you.
The fewer variables you leave to chance at the dealership, the better....that includes price.
Every purchase, at least for me, is different. I've come to the point where I've got a good idea of what can/can't be done when buying any car. Made plenty of mistakes along the way, too. Hopefully, we all learn from our mistakes.
I've bought, or helped someone buy, enough cars where I've seen most of the "gotchas" and know what to look for. I know a few people in the car biz, so I've got a little peak into how dealerships are run and how they make money. That's helpful.
I don't like to take a lot of time at the negotiating table. And, I like to keep it simple. Having confidence in my "number" is probably what makes it easy. If someone won't do it in one place, someone else will, somewhere else.
No matter what number I throw on the table for any vehicle, I know the dealership is going to try to "bump" that number up. Having confidence in my number allows me to resist the bump because I'm willing to walk on the deal and go somewhere else. Being willing to walk away from any deal you aren't comfortable with is probably the best advice I can give. Dealerships know that if you walk out without a deal, you likely won't be back. They don't want you to walk.
The rest of it is really just common sense. Don't fall in love with any vehicle. Read the car ads in your local paper to see what other dealerships are offering. Know what you can/can't afford. Know what the dealership's stock situation is on the model you're interested in (the more they have, the more likely they are to take a "skinny deal"). Let them know you're a buyer and not a tire kicker. They're more likely to get to the deal. On most common cars, a 2-3 hundred over invoice will get the deal done. They'll try to bump it, but if you stick to your guns, they'll be willing to make a quick & skinny deal. BMWs, Porsches, Audis, Mercedes, etc are a bit different. A few hundred over invoice probably won't get it done unless there's factory support. But, at the end of a model year, even the high end import dealers will take skinny deals.
The more dealerships there are in your area for the model you're interested in, the better. If the dealer is good, they'll know what their competition will/won't do. And, they don't want to get beat out by their competition.
Middle of the week....middle of the day....is a good time to deal, too. They're slow and a little hungrier to move iron....and more likely to take a skinny deal.
Be realistic. The dealership knows that you aren't likely to make a $1,000 under invoice deal on good car (unless there's facotry money thrown at it). There's exceptions to that rule, but in general, you're asking for a bump up if you come in unrealistically low. The more you're bumped, the more you will be paying...maybe even more than you originally planned. The longer you're at the negotiating table, the more you're being bumped and the more time you have invested in the deal (and less likely to walk).
Snake....I've got an old Tissot automatic. I've beat it to death. It's a "Seamaster". The band is made of rubber. It doesn't look like much, but it's my everyday watch. Keeps time as well as any quartz I've owned and has never failed me.
It's probably time to stop buying your quartz watches at Wal-Mart, because there is no way a mechanical watch (even a self-winder) can approach the accuracy of a decent quartz watch.
I don't know about that. I have an old key wound eggshell from the 1850's. It has a little lever on the back its works that allows the user to adjust the speed on it. Over the years I have got it to an accuracy of about 3-4 seconds a month. My Missouri Pacific watch from the 1890's has an accuracy of about 1-2 second a month. Your typical quartz has an accuracy of within 30 seconds a month, a real good one ( and I mean real good) about 3 seconds a month.
A Tissot in good working order made after 1920 could be as accurate as a quartz.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm with snake on the automatic watch debate. A good one can be every bit as accurate (sometimes more accurate) as a quartz if it's adjusted correctly.
Is that Missouri Pacific a pocket watch? Probably an american movement, too...right?
I've got my previous mentioned Tissot and another automatic that's a Hamilton. If they're in good working order and sport swiss movements, they're going to be very accurate.
Is that Missouri Pacific a pocket watch? Probably an american movement, too...right?
No unfortunately it is a Swiss movement. The eggshell is an American movement. I have a Hamilton from the 1920's that was an elcheapo even back then. That thing is off by about a minute a day.
My previous post contains an error, I said quartz has an accuracy within 30 seconds a month, that should be 15 seconds.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
For the past month I have been trying to register a Car at the New York DMV. I have tried a couple of times and so has one of our drivers well today after six attempts I have finaly been sucessful. Everytime someone went to the DMV they would come up with a new reason why they could not register the car.
I swear someone in the New York DMV has declared war on CT car dealerships to discourage people from buying cars out of state. While I was there this time there was a guy in front of my from a CT Lexus dealership and they were giving him a hard time as well.
I swear someone in the New York DMV has declared war on CT car dealerships to discourage people from buying cars out of state. While I was there this time there was a guy in front of my from a CT Lexus dealership and they were giving him a hard time as well.
Rover,
If there is a conspiracy here, what are the chances that the NY car dealers are behind it?
Since the state of NY is going to get there money anyhoo, why should they care unless, that is, they are being squeezed by an outside (maybe this should be an inside) interest.
Then again, it could just be typical state bureaucratic incompetence.
Either way it doesn't sound like you have had any fun trying to get the paperwork completed.
Just a thought,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mentioned that I'm driving my mother's '05 Caddy STS. Thought I had a "live buyer" for it, but the guy said he can buy a new leftover '06 w/AWD for not much more. He said he found incentives here at Edmunds totalling $4,500 factory to dealer cash. Just for grins, I called the dealership this guy said he could buy from. They said the incentive is $3,500. Yet, Edmunds does indeed show $4,500 in incentives. Just curious, who's right? The dealer? Or Edmunds?
Well they both could be right. Edmunds tends to be a good bit behind when it comes to posting incentives. If you called the Caddy dealer yesterday they might have just gotten new programs for the month which could have lowered incentives. Edmunds would probably not have been able to change their posted incentives yet so they would still show the incentives for last month.
BR...We use a company that is based in NY and handles out of state MVD work. They do a good job and we don't have any of the hassles....if you want their name for future ny mvd stuff let me know...Rich
A question that I thought might generate some interesting discussion among the sales force.
If you read the discussion form on any model for "prices paid", they are full of people claiming they got an amazing deal on model x.
Since obviously anyone can post anything they want with no chance of it being refuted, I often guess that many of these stretch the truth a bit (why someone would want post a lie about the price they paid for a car on a website is a whole different issue).
What % of these posts do you just shake your head and say there is no way they could have gotten that car for that price?
What you don't think I actually got that Bentley for $12K? :P
I would think that with many of those "amazing" deals we don't get all the information. Like sure they bought the car for 3 grand under invoice but they only got 1 grand for their trade in that was worth 4 times that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
...If you read the discussion form on any model for "prices paid", they are full of people claiming they got an amazing deal on model x.
I can attest to that.
I thought I got a pretty good deal on a car I bought in June, until, just for grins, I looked at the "prices paid" forum for the model I bought. Boy, did I get ripped! Now I'm never going to be able to sleep at night until I can get a deal like everybody else and I mean EVERYBODY. You see, there isn't a person in the country that didn't get a better deal that I got.
Why did you have to bring up this subject again?
I HATE you!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What % of these posts do you just shake your head and say there is no way they could have gotten that car for that price?
Let's be blunt. How many people are going to post "I paid 18k for a Toyota Corolla CE?" Even if people are honest, the ones that have found that they have OVERPAID are not going to post to be told that they overpaid.
Second, it is hard when you trade in a vehicle, have a ton of dealer incentives, have 16 different options, and a financing deal on a single transaction to know what you have really paid.
Finally, it is always rather fun to tweak other people about their purchases. I had a co-worker who spend MONTHS talking about buying a big screen TV. He did research and shopped every place in Milwaukee and Chicago for the BEST price. When he made his purchase and stated that he paid $3400 for his TV, I couldn't resist telling him that same TV was at Best Buy this week for $3100. Sure enough, he is up at Best Buy at lunch time searching for the non-existent better deal.
Finally, occasionally you step into a deal that is generally unavailable to others. For example, Aunt can no longer drive and sells you her 2003 Impala for $3k. Or like me, you sell a car from your fleet at a wholesale price to an employee.
These are not lies, not at least conscientious Those people firmly believe they paid 3 grand below dealer cost. What they usually don't tell you is their trade value or mop and glo purchased with the "deal". In FL dealers fees only can go to $699+ (some friendly Toyota/Honda dealers). So that Corolla "at invoice" may be invoice plus $799 fee plus $699 "protection package" with '02 Ford given away. There is no lie here - just ignorance.
Last week I saw a post stated that his neighbor got an 06' Honda Accord "EX" for $15K. Personally I think if someone can get an 06' "LX" for that price I'd consider it a good bargain but definitely not an "EX".
isellhonda, is it really possible to get a leftover non-demo Accord EX (non-leather) for 15 grands?
Comments
Only sad people with no life have time to do this...
Not like us... who only have time to post it on the web..
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What? You really think so?
It was a joke, you're supposed to laugh.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Do you think your experiences are very different because you are selling a premium brand versus something like Ford or Honda?
I would think people buying a premium brand would be more pushy and "high maintenance" but the people looking at more transportation type vehicles would be more about the deal.
First are those who act like everyone should bow down to them because they have money and want to make sure you know it - ie "Do you know who I am"?
Second are those who have so much money that they can't get caught up in the details of spending it - ie "Yeah you have it in blue optioned as I want it, it's 75K, and I can get it tomorrow? OK, write it up."
He knows when to pay a profit and has no problem doing so because of the service he gets from it. When he needs a service loaner our GM gives up his range rover demo for however long this client needs it. If his car has a problem he doesn't need to make an appointment just call one of us and we will make sure service gets it in right away.
Good on ya', Brit, giving them extras
for their extra dollars.
-ss4
This line reminds of a story. I have a friend who used to be a personal assistant to a rich family, net worth about 70M at the time. One day the wife calls the assistant and asks her to find the guy who installed their stereo system for 10K, because she is not happy with it and wants her money back. The assistant asked if she wrote his name in the check registry when she gave him a 10K check. Reply: “Oh dear, I can’t be bothered with that!”
I would presume that this is old money, a family who inherited the money. My experience is that since these people really didn't earn it they don't watch it to carefully.
Its the self made ones that have very good records and now where their money is coming from and going to.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Almost without fail, the salesperson will mention it as a topic of discussion when I test drive a car. I guess this is a testament to their ability at reading people, as I'm usually wearing jeans, a t-shirt, and sneakers when I visit a dealership.
Personally, I seldom notice what model of watch or other accessory people are wearing--I may notice that one looks different or interesting, but don't specifically look for the make and model.
I don't know how or if this might affect the negotiating process, but I try to remember to take it off when I visit a dealership, as I find it a little unnerving.
I don't know why you would find that "unnerving"?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well...everyone loves Mickey Mouse.
I've seen people who spend a fortune on diamond encursted watches......only to see that it's a "quartz" movement. The better wathes out there are manual (self winding mechanical movements).....more complex, harder to make. They aren't any more accurate than quartz watches. You just appreciate the time, craftsmanship and effort it takes to make them.
Onto another sales story.....many, many years ago, I was in the market for a new car. I had recently graduated from college and got married. Got my first new job post graduation and had some money in my pocket. At my (then) wife's insistence, I was trying to deal on a Chevy Citation. Forget for a second that it was one of the most poorly made cars I've ever had, it's what the wife wanted.
Did my best to "make a deal" on one. Thought that it took hours to get a good deal. Come to find out, not only had I wasted a lot of time negotiating (not knowing what the market was for the car), I also took the way overpriced wax job and etching.
Couple of days later, the dealership calls and tells me with my credit I needed to come up with another to keep the payment where I had negotiated it (yes, I negotiated the payment, not the price of the car). Well, as embarassing as it was, I took my father back into the dealership with me. He, being a veteran car buyer, asked to see the original paperwork I had signed. Come to find out, not only had I paid very close to MSRP for the car, the added wax and etching is what put the car over my monthly budget. I coudln't do anything about the price I paid, but my father told the dealership to forget about financing. He said he would finance the car for me. Shocked, they started to back pedal and all of a sudden, I didn't need an extra $1,000 on my deal. In addition, they dropped the cost of the wax and ethcing by over 2/3 (still way overpriced).
My father wrote them a check for the entire amount. He then took me to his bank. I didn't need him as a co-signer and they gave me a loan rate that was a whole 3 points less than what the dealership offered. I got the loan through the bank and my father got the check from the bank.
Lesson learned.....don't go into a dealership without knowing how your credit stacks up....and don't go in unprepared....not knowing what the market price is for the car.
I wouldn't say that, I have an old Missouri pacific Railroad watch from the late 1800's that keeps better time than most of todays quartz watches.
Lesson learned.....don't go into a dealership without knowing how your credit stacks up....and don't go in unprepared....not knowing what the market price is for the car.
I would say don't go into the dealership without already having the financing already in place. Actually I would have left that dealership in the dust.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Just like in the book "Millionaire next door", it's the third generation that takes the family business down the tubes. The first generation started the family business, who passed it down to generation #2, who grew up when money was still tight. But the 3rd generation was born with a silver spoon in their mouth and never learned the value of money.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I've made my share of boneheaded mistakes buying cars. I've bought used cars from private owners who masked serious problems with them (lesson....get an independent mechanic to look at private owner cars). Did my fair share of being a shade tree mechanic myself, so now I know what to look for in the way of costly repairs.
Unless someone is "in the business", I don't know if you get good at buying cars. It's certainly easier today since there's a wealth of information available about invoice, holdback, rebates, etc. 20 years ago, you just had to guess at what a car could be bought for. I used to figure I could buy a car at 13% off MSRP. That was before Edmunds and before Kelly Blue Book, NADA, etc type guides were available to the general public.
My father is the one that taught me never to be a payment buyer...and to know that if I was financing, what the payment would be before I walked into the dealership. Know what interest rate you can get and then just plug in your number with interest, TTL and you get your payment. Don't rely on the dealership to do it for you.
The fewer variables you leave to chance at the dealership, the better....that includes price.
Every purchase, at least for me, is different. I've come to the point where I've got a good idea of what can/can't be done when buying any car. Made plenty of mistakes along the way, too. Hopefully, we all learn from our mistakes.
I've bought, or helped someone buy, enough cars where I've seen most of the "gotchas" and know what to look for. I know a few people in the car biz, so I've got a little peak into how dealerships are run and how they make money. That's helpful.
I don't like to take a lot of time at the negotiating table. And, I like to keep it simple. Having confidence in my "number" is probably what makes it easy. If someone won't do it in one place, someone else will, somewhere else.
No matter what number I throw on the table for any vehicle, I know the dealership is going to try to "bump" that number up. Having confidence in my number allows me to resist the bump because I'm willing to walk on the deal and go somewhere else. Being willing to walk away from any deal you aren't comfortable with is probably the best advice I can give. Dealerships know that if you walk out without a deal, you likely won't be back. They don't want you to walk.
The rest of it is really just common sense. Don't fall in love with any vehicle. Read the car ads in your local paper to see what other dealerships are offering. Know what you can/can't afford. Know what the dealership's stock situation is on the model you're interested in (the more they have, the more likely they are to take a "skinny deal"). Let them know you're a buyer and not a tire kicker. They're more likely to get to the deal. On most common cars, a 2-3 hundred over invoice will get the deal done. They'll try to bump it, but if you stick to your guns, they'll be willing to make a quick & skinny deal. BMWs, Porsches, Audis, Mercedes, etc are a bit different. A few hundred over invoice probably won't get it done unless there's factory support. But, at the end of a model year, even the high end import dealers will take skinny deals.
The more dealerships there are in your area for the model you're interested in, the better. If the dealer is good, they'll know what their competition will/won't do. And, they don't want to get beat out by their competition.
Middle of the week....middle of the day....is a good time to deal, too. They're slow and a little hungrier to move iron....and more likely to take a skinny deal.
Be realistic. The dealership knows that you aren't likely to make a $1,000 under invoice deal on good car (unless there's facotry money thrown at it). There's exceptions to that rule, but in general, you're asking for a bump up if you come in unrealistically low. The more you're bumped, the more you will be paying...maybe even more than you originally planned. The longer you're at the negotiating table, the more you're being bumped and the more time you have invested in the deal (and less likely to walk).
Snake....I've got an old Tissot automatic. I've beat it to death. It's a "Seamaster". The band is made of rubber. It doesn't look like much, but it's my everyday watch. Keeps time as well as any quartz I've owned and has never failed me.
It's probably time to stop buying your quartz watches at Wal-Mart, because there is no way a mechanical watch (even a self-winder) can approach the accuracy of a decent quartz watch.
I've made my share of boneheaded mistakes buying cars. I've bought used cars from private owners who masked serious problems with them (lesson....get an independent mechanic to look at private owner cars). Did my fair share of being a shade tree mechanic myself, so now I know what to look for in the way of costly repairs.
Unless someone is "in the business", I don't know if you get good at buying cars. It's certainly easier today since there's a wealth of information available about invoice, holdback, rebates, etc. 20 years ago, you just had to guess at what a car could be bought for. I used to figure I could buy a car at 13% off MSRP. That was before Edmunds and before Kelly Blue Book, NADA, etc type guides were available to the general public.
My father is the one that taught me never to be a payment buyer...and to know that if I was financing, what the payment would be before I walked into the dealership. Know what interest rate you can get and then just plug in your number with interest, TTL and you get your payment. Don't rely on the dealership to do it for you.
The fewer variables you leave to chance at the dealership, the better....that includes price.
Every purchase, at least for me, is different. I've come to the point where I've got a good idea of what can/can't be done when buying any car. Made plenty of mistakes along the way, too. Hopefully, we all learn from our mistakes.
I've bought, or helped someone buy, enough cars where I've seen most of the "gotchas" and know what to look for. I know a few people in the car biz, so I've got a little peak into how dealerships are run and how they make money. That's helpful.
I don't like to take a lot of time at the negotiating table. And, I like to keep it simple. Having confidence in my "number" is probably what makes it easy. If someone won't do it in one place, someone else will, somewhere else.
No matter what number I throw on the table for any vehicle, I know the dealership is going to try to "bump" that number up. Having confidence in my number allows me to resist the bump because I'm willing to walk on the deal and go somewhere else. Being willing to walk away from any deal you aren't comfortable with is probably the best advice I can give. Dealerships know that if you walk out without a deal, you likely won't be back. They don't want you to walk.
The rest of it is really just common sense. Don't fall in love with any vehicle. Read the car ads in your local paper to see what other dealerships are offering. Know what you can/can't afford. Know what the dealership's stock situation is on the model you're interested in (the more they have, the more likely they are to take a "skinny deal"). Let them know you're a buyer and not a tire kicker. They're more likely to get to the deal. On most common cars, a 2-3 hundred over invoice will get the deal done. They'll try to bump it, but if you stick to your guns, they'll be willing to make a quick & skinny deal. BMWs, Porsches, Audis, Mercedes, etc are a bit different. A few hundred over invoice probably won't get it done unless there's factory support. But, at the end of a model year, even the high end import dealers will take skinny deals.
The more dealerships there are in your area for the model you're interested in, the better. If the dealer is good, they'll know what their competition will/won't do. And, they don't want to get beat out by their competition.
Middle of the week....middle of the day....is a good time to deal, too. They're slow and a little hungrier to move iron....and more likely to take a skinny deal.
Be realistic. The dealership knows that you aren't likely to make a $1,000 under invoice deal on good car (unless there's facotry money thrown at it). There's exceptions to that rule, but in general, you're asking for a bump up if you come in unrealistically low. The more you're bumped, the more you will be paying...maybe even more than you originally planned. The longer you're at the negotiating table, the more you're being bumped and the more time you have invested in the deal (and less likely to walk).
Snake....I've got an old Tissot automatic. I've beat it to death. It's a "Seamaster". The band is made of rubber. It doesn't look like much, but it's my everyday watch. Keeps time as well as any quartz I've owned and has never failed me.
I don't know about that. I have an old key wound eggshell from the 1850's. It has a little lever on the back its works that allows the user to adjust the speed on it. Over the years I have got it to an accuracy of about 3-4 seconds a month. My Missouri Pacific watch from the 1890's has an accuracy of about 1-2 second a month. Your typical quartz has an accuracy of within 30 seconds a month, a real good one ( and I mean real good) about 3 seconds a month.
A Tissot in good working order made after 1920 could be as accurate as a quartz.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Is that Missouri Pacific a pocket watch? Probably an american movement, too...right?
I've got my previous mentioned Tissot and another automatic that's a Hamilton. If they're in good working order and sport swiss movements, they're going to be very accurate.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
No unfortunately it is a Swiss movement. The eggshell is an American movement. I have a Hamilton from the 1920's that was an elcheapo even back then. That thing is off by about a minute a day.
My previous post contains an error, I said quartz has an accuracy within 30 seconds a month, that should be 15 seconds.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yes, I think it's ... well ... it's time!
tidester, host
That was a Nissan... Anyone got a story about buying a Nissan Pulsar?
Oldsmobile made an Omega so we are back on topic...kinda.
I swear someone in the New York DMV has declared war on CT car dealerships to discourage people from buying cars out of state. While I was there this time there was a guy in front of my from a CT Lexus dealership and they were giving him a hard time as well.
Rover,
If there is a conspiracy here, what are the chances that the NY car dealers are behind it?
Since the state of NY is going to get there money anyhoo, why should they care unless, that is, they are being squeezed by an outside (maybe this should be an inside) interest.
Then again, it could just be typical state bureaucratic incompetence.
Either way it doesn't sound like you have had any fun trying to get the paperwork completed.
Just a thought,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If you read the discussion form on any model for "prices paid", they are full of people claiming they got an amazing deal on model x.
Since obviously anyone can post anything they want with no chance of it being refuted, I often guess that many of these stretch the truth a bit (why someone would want post a lie about the price they paid for a car on a website is a whole different issue).
What % of these posts do you just shake your head and say there is no way they could have gotten that car for that price?
I would think that with many of those "amazing" deals we don't get all the information. Like sure they bought the car for 3 grand under invoice but they only got 1 grand for their trade in that was worth 4 times that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I can attest to that.
I thought I got a pretty good deal on a car I bought in June, until, just for grins, I looked at the "prices paid" forum for the model I bought. Boy, did I get ripped! Now I'm never going to be able to sleep at night until I can get a deal like everybody else and I mean EVERYBODY. You see, there isn't a person in the country that didn't get a better deal that I got.
Why did you have to bring up this subject again?
I HATE you!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Let's be blunt. How many people are going to post "I paid 18k for a Toyota Corolla CE?" Even if people are honest, the ones that have found that they have OVERPAID are not going to post to be told that they overpaid.
Second, it is hard when you trade in a vehicle, have a ton of dealer incentives, have 16 different options, and a financing deal on a single transaction to know what you have really paid.
Finally, it is always rather fun to tweak other people about their purchases. I had a co-worker who spend MONTHS talking about buying a big screen TV. He did research and shopped every place in Milwaukee and Chicago for the BEST price. When he made his purchase and stated that he paid $3400 for his TV, I couldn't resist telling him that same TV was at Best Buy this week for $3100. Sure enough, he is up at Best Buy at lunch time searching for the non-existent better deal.
Finally, occasionally you step into a deal that is generally unavailable to others. For example, Aunt can no longer drive and sells you her 2003 Impala for $3k. Or like me, you sell a car from your fleet at a wholesale price to an employee.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
isellhonda, is it really possible to get a leftover non-demo Accord EX (non-leather) for 15 grands?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It would be more likely that this poster has at least one fact wrong.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Did that deal really happen? No way.
A lot of the so called "Prices Paid" are pure fiction. Sometimes, I have (gently) said " Foul Ball" but I just get shouted down.
In a lot of cases it's just puffery I think.