But you said yourself, thats to move slow moving inventory. Logically if a certain car is a slow mover for you then it is a slow mover for other dealerships in your immediate area. You are not undercutting the other dealer to steal a customer but to move a slow moving car. If it is a slow moving car then maybe the original dealer overpriced it in the first place.
These situations most commonly occur on slower moving inventory - but not always. If the customer is in the right place at the right time on the right piece of inventory then the final analysis is something like this:
'What's our position for today? ( profit so far? ) What do we have to do to keep the client from going back to the other store thus keeping the competitor from moving its inventory?'
Eureka - first dealer who admits that one-price system may actually work in right circumstances.
For 3 yrs now Toyota has been testing this on the new generation of vehicle buyers. Done correctly it works very very well.
It could be done on all vehicles under $25000 with the push of a button ( email ). If Hyundai got so successful as to actually start impacting the Corolla and Camry sales then it would be next to nothing to have all vehicles midsized and smaller sold by the Scion method. The Scion model is an experiment.
I'm big fan of the Scion idea. I think that was a very smart move. Back to the other discussion, wouldn't it be great if car salesmen turned into real Experts on thier product line with real customer service skills? I'm aiming for that personally, and no, I'm not an expert on Ford products yet. But I'm VERY comfortable saying I know them better then my sales manager. Which is sad.
It's funny too Rover since our paychecks come from similar places (Land Rover is even an Xplan product!) that the standard of service is so much better as you move up price point.
For instance I can pretty much guarantee that BMW sales people are held to a higher standard then Ford salespeople.
Still alive and kicking. My whole person is shocked by the new (long) hours I am putting in. My first real 9-5 in 8 years.
My first week selling I sold 3 (sold 1.5 on Saturday alone) cars. No big ticket or high gross deals. We have had a very slow 7 days so far. Hope things pick up. I feel things will improve as I meet new customers and do follow up phone calls and try to set appointments. As the salespeople on board here know, about 15% of walk-in traffic buy. A much higher % of appointments buy (half?). Anyway...
I am mostly enjoying my interaction with the customers. Management can be a different matter. I have the feeling that some of my managers were beaten up mercilessly as kids.
I learned a few things about the parent company.
Largest automotive retailer in the world.
$20 Billion a year in biz
300 dealerships
28k employees
I believe it is #101 on the Fortune 500 list.
2,000 cars sold EVERY DAY!
I think like $320 billion in new car sales alone, with a like number in used.
Did the new employee orientation class today. Well delivered course. Only one slightly psychotic customer tale to tell. Will save it for when I have more steam. I did win one quarter of the football pool this week. $75.
Take care all. Come visit me and buy a Pathfinder. Nice new commercials they are running. We even have one Versa on the lot (won't last long).
My first week selling I sold 3 (sold 1.5 on Saturday alone) cars...
How do you sell a HALF of a car? Was it the front end or the rear end? Is the commission better on one of the ends compared to the other, if so I hope you got the better end. Maybe you are trying to tell us that a closer got part of the commission.
I did win one quarter of the football pool this week. $75.
If you continue to sell HALF cars, you may find that winning football pools is the best way to make money. Especially since you don't have to pay taxes on this money.
Keep plugging, it sounds like you enjoy your new job.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Management can be a different story. I have a feeling most of my managers were beaten up...
Could be a dangerous line of work. Your managers may have been beaten up by irate customers, and are funneling that anger to the nearest green pea.
Regardless, let's hear some of your,"Manager Tales of Horror" stories. If they are interesting enough, we'll get jmonroe to ride up and take that Pathfinder off your hands (at MSRP, $600 doc fees, and every slop & glo ever invented).
Sounds like you're having fun, except for managers who were beat as kids.......OH MY!
From a consumer standpoint, I never really "got" Nissan's ads.
People flocking away from trucks/SUVs, yet Nissan is touting their gas gobbling V8. Shift 2.0 I never understood, either. Probably because I'm kind of dense, though.
Just curious, what do the managers talk about during the morning sales meetings?
Hmhh couple of ways he could have gotten the half sale.
If they run a TO to a closer then it could be that way.
He could have taken a phone call from a customer got all of the information and set up an appointment then when the customer came in he might have been busy and another salesman helped out the customer.
Or he could have done a test drive with someone one day and then they came back and bought on his day off.
At our store those are the two most common way we get split commissions.
However, you really never know who might read these post. It's not that hard to figure out who you are if you work for me. I considered posting, "come to my desk NOW!!!", but that's really not funny. Please continue to share, but protect the innocent (yourself).
Side note - everyone seems to be in good sprits today. That's great!
I can relate to the management issues, after 3 months my sales manager and I have had it out three times. (Once because I actually LOST a sale due to him insisting I do something I didn't want to do. Fortunatly the owner was on my side of that one.) But appearantly clashing with the sales manager is regular because all it did was make me fit in more.
Hey Denver what parent company is that? Is that Lithia? Don't worry I work for a small, family-owned dealership. Just curious.
I'll take the front half.. I can probably transplant the engine / transmission into another car. Then again you might be able to make a trailer out of the rear half of the car.
I have been in the Car Sales business for a little over three years and I can now say, the management situation doesn't get any better. There is a huge mis-trust of car buyers among managers and they all think the sales-person is being "played" on every deal. A lot of this comes from experience and some comes from stories of older salespeople. Car sales can be a very stressful and irritating vocation if a salesperson is hoping to become a superstar or to make their fortune quickly. The income for a car salesperson is lower now than ever and will probably decline. The days of making huge gross profits on cars is gone unless you sell high-end products like BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche. Good luck in the car sales business.
I've mentioned that my brother-in-law is a GM employee. As such, he gets hefty discounts on GM and associated brands.
Well, he and my sister have two kids. One is 19, the other is 16. Being tired of them borrowing the family car all the time, they decided to buy a new car for both of them to use. Allegedly, there are good deals to be had on new Chevy Malibus, so that's what they bought.
Dealership comes back and says they made a mistake on the GMS pricing (GM's employee pricing). Apparently, the swing is about $1,000, in my bro-in-law/sister's favor.
Here's where it gets tricky. They can go to a special WEB site sponsored by GM and look at any car a dealer has in stock and get the GMS pricing on it. This is also the same WEB site they go to to get the authorization codes for employee pricing/rebates, which they gave to the dealer. Since GM is still heavy into rebates, some of which only apply to GM employees, they then subtract the incentives from the GMS price to get the purchase price. They log on. Print out the price on the exact car they bought, and it turns out to be $1,000 less than what the dealership syas it should be.
They already bought the car and brought it home. Yet, the dealership states there's still $1,000 more that they have to come up with.
My sister printed out the discounts that she got from the GMS WEB site on the Malibu and gave it to the dealership. Dealership says the WEB site includes $1,000 discount they aren't entitled to. The reasons they give are all over the board as to why they don't qualify for the extra $1,000 discount.
Of course, they come to me and ask if I can help (I've got no experience with this type of issue other than to be suspicious of what the dealer is stating). They called the GMS support people and were told that the dealership has all the information and discount schedules that they qualify for (in other words, they don't want to get in the middle of this).
Only thing I can figure is the dealership doesn't qualify for some sort of quantity unit discount that GM sends to dealers who sell a certain number of cars.
What do all of you think? Go to the dealership and give them the extra $1,000? Or, tell them it's a dealership problem and go pound salt.
What do all of you think? Go to the dealership and give them the extra $1,000? Or, tell them it's a dealership problem and go pound salt.
Well if you have all the paperwork with the figures that you paid and its not an obvious mistake tell them to go pound salt. The law will be on your side.
Just to be on the safe side make sure the car is parked in the garage at night til this is all settled.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i agree with telling them to take a hike and parking the car in the garage for a while.
once it has a couple thousand miles, if they are still being a pain, then tell them they can give a full refund and take it back. I'm confident they'll stop bothering them at that point. If you think a NEW malibu is cheap, just imagine what they'd have to sell a used one for.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I will echo another poster's suggestion that you temper what you say in these forums when you speak of your managers.
I do wish you well but I don't think I could work in a mega-store like you do. Our store sells more cars than any other dealership in the state but we are low keyed and family owned. The GM, GSM and UCM are the same people in the same positions as they were 11 years ago when I started here.
The average mega-store chews up managers about as quickly as they do salespeople. They are only as good as last month's performance and it's rare to see one last long.
The reasons they give are all over the board as to why they don't qualify for the extra $1,000 discount.
I think, as a first step, your sister needs to get from the dealership, IN WRITING, why they think that she owes another $1000.
Once she knows what they think is the real reason, which they won't be able to alter as the mood takes them, then she needs to investigate with GM whether what the dealer says is correct or not and then act accordingly.
Well, I guess they will never be able to take the Malibu in for service..... EVER!
"Sorry Mrs. Customer, someone stole your nice new Malibu"
Personally, I would stick to my guns unless their reasons for the $1,000 increase were very obvious and correct. Whatever the outcome is, I would never take it back there for service, that's for sure! :mad:
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Good suggestions....all of them. I recommended them to my sister. First, I told her to have them document why the dealership's GMS price was different than the GMS price she's got. She's got the quote from the GMS WEB site, but as of yet, all she has is the dealership's General Manager saying the price is wrong.
Secondly, I told my sister to let the dealership know she's willing to unwind the deal and give the car back to them. She says she's got about 600 miles on the car. I'm figuring she may have to pay 20 cents a mile....$120, for the privilege of driving the car for a couple of weeks.
Dealership responded about an hour ago and said they'd split the $1,000 difference between their GMS figure and hers (net would be another $500 out of her pocket).
I told her to hold tight. She's got documentation. Dealership has offered none, other than their GMS price is different than hers.
I don't know what the real answer is. GM employee discount support people are no help in mediating this.
I'm not familiar with the dealership she bought from (she lives in a different city), so I don't know if they're "straight up" or not. She said she's never dealt with this particular dealership before. And, before now, never had an issue with a GMS purchase.
Upon my suggestion, she called the dealership's owner. Of course, he's not in. But, she got his exec assistant. She told the [non-permissible content removed]'t that she's not doing anything until she hears from the owner.
I also told her to lock the car in her garage and not drive it until all of this is resolved.
If the number was anything but a nice round one, like $1,000, I might give the dealership some slack. On the other hand, $1,000 is a number that either the dealership could've overlooked, is an incentive they don't qualify for (like volume incentives), or just can't get.
Or, they are going against all the GMS rules and trying to make money on a car that, for all intents and purposes, would bring little, if any, over invoice (less any incentives).
There was a similar situation about two months ago in the news.(but involving a larger amount) I believe this dealer was in Atlanta
It appears (there is some dispute about this) The dealer wrote down the wrong stock ID number on a new car, and ended up doing the deal for about $7000 under their cost. they also took the customers car in trade.
By the time the dealer figured out their mistake,(if it was a mistake) they called the customer to either kick in an additional $8000 or to return the car. The customer told them to firck off and the dealer ended up repoing the car out of his driveway in the middle of the night.
I was not aware that even though a deal was signed this is apparently a legal thing to do.
What makes this situation a little murkier is that there are allegations this has happened before (although for smaller amounts)with this dealer asking for more money after the customer has taken possession of the car.
Hmmm...perhaps I should go back to the Ford dealer where I recently bought a Mustang and tell them the price was wrong and that they owe me $1000.
That is really the issue... After the deal is done, and the papers signed, and the car is delivered.... they are coming back, asking for more money...
I'd stick with "I'll bring the car back and unwind the deal, before I give you any more money. Not that I'm offering to do that, since I have a signed agreement." Them offering to split the difference, tells me they are either wrong, or they screwed up, and GM won't offer to help them, either.
One caveat: If GM does get involved and sides with the dealer, they will have to pony up. I wouldn't risk my job on a car deal.
Agree except for the part about paying 20 cents on the mile and not driving the car. I don't think your sister should pay anything for the miles put on the vehicle, it was the dealerships "mistake". And while I would keep the car garaged while not in use, I wouldn't inconvience myself by having to rent or borrow someone elses car. Get her to buy some anti-theft device like "The Club", and drive it like she normally would in situations she feels are safe to do so.
Tennessee and Georgia both have very modest consumer protection laws - the laws there highly favor auto dealers, and not auto buyers.
Without knowing what state this is happening in, basically nobody can give more than just general advice. There may be extra laws depending on where you are.
That said, the general advice so far has been excellent, especially about getting - in writing - from the dealership why their price is different than what you paid.
After the deal is done, and the papers signed, and the car is delivered.... they are coming back, asking for more money...
I'm gonna disagree with Walt here.
From what I've learned here in the Town Hall, there is no deal until the financing has gone through. This sorta thing happens quite a bit; usually it's a spot delivery that hangs up in financing.
The advice from the pros has always been the same: Bring the car back & unwind... or cough up the dough.
And that's how I'd handle this one.
BTW, the car is still "new" if the deal is unwound. How they explain the 600 miles to the next guy is their problem.
I don't know what the real answer is. GM employee discount support people are no help in mediating this.
graph,
Have I missed something? I have yet to recognize any input from any guys in the biz.
Where are they when you need them? Most of them say if you need help they are here for us.
OK guys feel free to jump in at any time.
One additional suggestion. Keep the car in somebody elses garage and when it is left parked anywhere, for any reason, make sure your favorite Doberman is inside. I understand you can rent one if needed.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This deal with the Malibu sounds mighty fishy. I have used GM, Ford and Chrysler's supplier programs to purchase vehicles. The price is always in black and white on the dealer's invoice -- no room for error or interpretation. Sometimes under these plans there is an additional rebate available above and beyond the rebate available to the general public. The dealer ultimately has all of the proprietary information as to any additional rebate or discount and has the responsibility to ensure eligibility and compliance.
It galls me to think that a dealer would have the nerve to demand an additional $1000 after the deal is signed and delivered whether it was an "honest" mistake or not. Why would a dealership risk bad publicity over such a trivial amount? I would go out of my way to tell everyone I know about what XYZ Chevrolet tried to pull on me and my family. Furthermore, this guy is a GM employee. His coworkers would all be eligible to purchase under the same plan as he. This dealer risks alienating a big pool of otherwise loyal GM buyers in this community.
If I were in this situation, I would demand to be shown in black and white exactly where this $1000 difference is coming from. I signed my name to a document that stated that I would pay $X for this Malibu....not X plus $1000. If the dealer doesn't come to his senses fast, I would simply state that the only acceptable remedy to me would be to let the deal stand as is or I would like to return the car and get any money that I had paid returned. Take your pick, Mr. Dealer...either way is fine with me. I believe that they would start backpedaling fast. They do not want this car back. I would be civil and business-like but very firm in my demands. I would absolutely not pay a dime for depreciation or anything such as that considering that this is a dealer mistake and not my mistake. I suspect that this problem will either go away or be escalated quickly. Consulting a lawyer may be a necessary evil in this case.
Malibu's and Chevrolet dealerships are a dime a dozen. I would not ever do business at that dealership, neither as a buyer or as a service customer. I wonder how many poor widows, pensioners, and other unfortunate uninformed paid close to MSRP for a vehicle that should be an invoice deal at any dealer in the country? I am sure that their refund checks are in the mail, aren't you?? If they had gone home and realized that they paid thousands too much, would a dealer allow them to back out of a signed deal?...I doubt it. Absence fraud, a signed deal is a signed deal. Ignorance has a cost, whether it be the buyer or the dealer making the error.
Regardless, this Malibu problem has to be solved one way or the other soon. I assume the paperwork is in limbo at the dealer pending resolution. These people will need a license plate and a registration card soon. Somebody's gotta cave and it would not be me.
Well I haven't replied because I have no input to give. I don't know anything about GMS pricing since I don't work in a GM store and even Ford Special plan pricing is not similar. We don't even do any for special pricing plans that often. We will get the very rare X-Plan deal but that is it.
Also whenever we have made a mistake like this we have just eaten the differance. The couple of times a mistake like this occured the customer never even found out we just ate the differance and went on with business. Better to take the lower profit deal then to piss off a customer.
Thanks for all the input folks....all if it is good.
My sister (and her husband, the GM employee) is above and beyond honest. If a legitimate mistake was made, they will make good on it.
As more information comes out, I don't know that it is getting any clearer or more muddled.
You guys are right, if there was no obvious attempt to deceive, I don't see where my sister has any obligation, at all, to pony up more money.
This was a lease. The thought process is, whenever my nephew graduates from college (he's a sophomore), he can buy the car at the end of the lease (27 mos), or he can let my niece take it (she's 16....with little in the way of motivation to do anything but graduate from HS). Lease is through GMAC. Everything approved was approved at the dealership.
While I didn't really want to get into the middle of this fracas, my sister asked me to talk to the dealership to see if I could understand what was going on (she is my little sister, after all....I have to help).
The dealership has come up with two stories. First, they told my sister that the extra incentive that made up the $1,000 difference was for GM retirees. The GMS WEB stie made no mention that the extra incentive was for retirees...not even in the fine print (I know, I looked at the entire deal and the GMS WEB site). There are even some minor fees that supposedly aren't allowed under a GMS deal (like doc fees....$75...don't know the rules of GMS, though). Then, they changed their story and said the incentive was for purchase only, not a lease. They've yet been able to tell me (or her) where the stipulation is regarding purchase only incentives.
I asked the dealership to send their GMS paperwork to us showing where these stipulations and discounts are defined. My sister has her paperwork backing up her claim. We haven't seen anything backing up the dealership's claim. I even told them not to mail them, but to fax them, so we could get this resolved.
I floated the opportunity for them to unwind the deal. My sister would return the car (better yet, they can come get the car after they give my sister the fees she paid for the lease). They didn't seem too keen on that option, but haven't rejected it either. She still hasn't heard from the owner of the dealership.
Comments
These situations most commonly occur on slower moving inventory - but not always. If the customer is in the right place at the right time on the right piece of inventory then the final analysis is something like this:
'What's our position for today? ( profit so far? )
What do we have to do to keep the client from going back to the other store thus keeping the competitor from moving its inventory?'
For 3 yrs now Toyota has been testing this on the new generation of vehicle buyers. Done correctly it works very very well.
It could be done on all vehicles under $25000 with the push of a button ( email ). If Hyundai got so successful as to actually start impacting the Corolla and Camry sales then it would be next to nothing to have all vehicles midsized and smaller sold by the Scion method. The Scion model is an experiment.
Faclity Tech Support(I can answer or solve any technical question about any of our vehicles)
Keeper of the Acronyms(I know what all of them mean including the various interior options for all the cars and all the paint codes)
Master of our off-road course(I can take any vehicle on it without a spotter including Freelanders which just blows people away)
My brain is just like a blackhole for automotive info that most people think is useless.
For instance I can pretty much guarantee that BMW sales people are held to a higher standard then Ford salespeople.
My first week selling I sold 3 (sold 1.5 on Saturday alone) cars. No big ticket or high gross deals. We have had a very slow 7 days so far. Hope things pick up. I feel things will improve as I meet new customers and do follow up phone calls and try to set appointments. As the salespeople on board here know, about 15% of walk-in traffic buy. A much higher % of appointments buy (half?). Anyway...
I am mostly enjoying my interaction with the customers. Management can be a different matter. I have the feeling that some of my managers were beaten up mercilessly as kids.
I learned a few things about the parent company.
Largest automotive retailer in the world.
$20 Billion a year in biz
300 dealerships
28k employees
I believe it is #101 on the Fortune 500 list.
2,000 cars sold EVERY DAY!
I think like $320 billion in new car sales alone, with a like number in used.
Did the new employee orientation class today. Well delivered course. Only one slightly psychotic customer tale to tell. Will save it for when I have more steam. I did win one quarter of the football pool this week. $75.
Take care all. Come visit me and buy a Pathfinder. Nice new commercials they are running. We even have one Versa on the lot (won't last long).
Ciao,
How do you sell a HALF of a car? Was it the front end or the rear end? Is the commission better on one of the ends compared to the other, if so I hope you got the better end. Maybe you are trying to tell us that a closer got part of the commission.
I did win one quarter of the football pool this week. $75.
If you continue to sell HALF cars, you may find that winning football pools is the best way to make money. Especially since you don't have to pay taxes on this money.
Keep plugging, it sounds like you enjoy your new job.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Could be a dangerous line of work. Your managers may have been beaten up by irate customers, and are funneling that anger to the nearest green pea.
Regardless, let's hear some of your,"Manager Tales of Horror" stories. If they are interesting enough, we'll get jmonroe to ride up and take that Pathfinder off your hands (at MSRP, $600 doc fees, and every slop & glo ever invented).
Sounds like you're having fun, except for managers who were beat as kids.......OH MY!
From a consumer standpoint, I never really "got" Nissan's ads.
People flocking away from trucks/SUVs, yet Nissan is touting their gas gobbling V8. Shift 2.0 I never understood, either. Probably because I'm kind of dense, though.
Just curious, what do the managers talk about during the morning sales meetings?
If they run a TO to a closer then it could be that way.
He could have taken a phone call from a customer got all of the information and set up an appointment then when the customer came in he might have been busy and another salesman helped out the customer.
Or he could have done a test drive with someone one day and then they came back and bought on his day off.
At our store those are the two most common way we get split commissions.
If I can talk a green pea into making it $550 in doc fees, he might have a deal and while he's at it maybe he can throw in my traveling expenses.
I'm not an SUV kinda guy but with a deal like this how could I tell a green pea NO !!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Oh, so I guess this front end/rear end stuff is just a bunch of baloney.
I'm never going to believe anything else I ever read on these forums.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
However, you really never know who might read these post. It's not that hard to figure out who you are if you work for me. I considered posting, "come to my desk NOW!!!", but that's really not funny. Please continue to share, but protect the innocent (yourself).
Side note - everyone seems to be in good sprits today. That's great!
Hey Denver what parent company is that? Is that Lithia? Don't worry I work for a small, family-owned dealership. Just curious.
I'll take the front half.. I can probably transplant the engine / transmission into another car. Then again you might be able to make a trailer out of the rear half of the car.
Edit: I thought of another one
What happens if it is a RWD car? Or even some rear engine car?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Car sales can be a very stressful and irritating vocation if a salesperson is hoping to become a superstar or to make their fortune quickly. The income for a car salesperson is lower now than ever and will probably decline. The days of making huge gross profits on cars is gone unless you sell high-end products like BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche. Good luck in the car sales business.
ducking and running
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yeah, I'd like to get a hold of some of them spirits myself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've mentioned that my brother-in-law is a GM employee. As such, he gets hefty discounts on GM and associated brands.
Well, he and my sister have two kids. One is 19, the other is 16. Being tired of them borrowing the family car all the time, they decided to buy a new car for both of them to use. Allegedly, there are good deals to be had on new Chevy Malibus, so that's what they bought.
Dealership comes back and says they made a mistake on the GMS pricing (GM's employee pricing). Apparently, the swing is about $1,000, in my bro-in-law/sister's favor.
Here's where it gets tricky. They can go to a special WEB site sponsored by GM and look at any car a dealer has in stock and get the GMS pricing on it. This is also the same WEB site they go to to get the authorization codes for employee pricing/rebates, which they gave to the dealer. Since GM is still heavy into rebates, some of which only apply to GM employees, they then subtract the incentives from the GMS price to get the purchase price. They log on. Print out the price on the exact car they bought, and it turns out to be $1,000 less than what the dealership syas it should be.
They already bought the car and brought it home. Yet, the dealership states there's still $1,000 more that they have to come up with.
My sister printed out the discounts that she got from the GMS WEB site on the Malibu and gave it to the dealership. Dealership says the WEB site includes $1,000 discount they aren't entitled to. The reasons they give are all over the board as to why they don't qualify for the extra $1,000 discount.
Of course, they come to me and ask if I can help (I've got no experience with this type of issue other than to be suspicious of what the dealer is stating). They called the GMS support people and were told that the dealership has all the information and discount schedules that they qualify for (in other words, they don't want to get in the middle of this).
Only thing I can figure is the dealership doesn't qualify for some sort of quantity unit discount that GM sends to dealers who sell a certain number of cars.
What do all of you think? Go to the dealership and give them the extra $1,000? Or, tell them it's a dealership problem and go pound salt.
For what it's worth if you're taking a tally, I vote for the second one.
However, maybe one of our dealer guys has the real answer but I really like the one about that salt thing.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It was a reasonable price your sister paid and legally/ethically she shouldn't have anything to worry about.
The stealership screwed up, so they can eat the loss...if it really is a loss.
I think that you should keep us updated on how well that works out.
Well if you have all the paperwork with the figures that you paid and its not an obvious mistake tell them to go pound salt. The law will be on your side.
Just to be on the safe side make sure the car is parked in the garage at night til this is all settled.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
once it has a couple thousand miles, if they are still being a pain, then tell them they can give a full refund and take it back. I'm confident they'll stop bothering them at that point. If you think a NEW malibu is cheap, just imagine what they'd have to sell a used one for.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I do wish you well but I don't think I could work in a mega-store like you do. Our store sells more cars than any other dealership in the state but we are low keyed and family owned. The GM, GSM and UCM are the same people in the same positions as they were 11 years ago when I started here.
The average mega-store chews up managers about as quickly as they do salespeople. They are only as good as last month's performance and it's rare to see one last long.
I think, as a first step, your sister needs to get from the dealership, IN WRITING, why they think that she owes another $1000.
Once she knows what they think is the real reason, which they won't be able to alter as the mood takes them, then she needs to investigate with GM whether what the dealer says is correct or not and then act accordingly.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"Sorry Mrs. Customer, someone stole your nice new Malibu"
Personally, I would stick to my guns unless their reasons for the $1,000 increase were very obvious and correct. Whatever the outcome is, I would never take it back there for service, that's for sure! :mad:
Mark
Good suggestions....all of them. I recommended them to my sister. First, I told her to have them document why the dealership's GMS price was different than the GMS price she's got. She's got the quote from the GMS WEB site, but as of yet, all she has is the dealership's General Manager saying the price is wrong.
Secondly, I told my sister to let the dealership know she's willing to unwind the deal and give the car back to them. She says she's got about 600 miles on the car. I'm figuring she may have to pay 20 cents a mile....$120, for the privilege of driving the car for a couple of weeks.
Dealership responded about an hour ago and said they'd split the $1,000 difference between their GMS figure and hers (net would be another $500 out of her pocket).
I told her to hold tight. She's got documentation. Dealership has offered none, other than their GMS price is different than hers.
I don't know what the real answer is. GM employee discount support people are no help in mediating this.
I'm not familiar with the dealership she bought from (she lives in a different city), so I don't know if they're "straight up" or not. She said she's never dealt with this particular dealership before. And, before now, never had an issue with a GMS purchase.
Upon my suggestion, she called the dealership's owner. Of course, he's not in. But, she got his exec assistant. She told the [non-permissible content removed]'t that she's not doing anything until she hears from the owner.
I also told her to lock the car in her garage and not drive it until all of this is resolved.
If the number was anything but a nice round one, like $1,000, I might give the dealership some slack. On the other hand, $1,000 is a number that either the dealership could've overlooked, is an incentive they don't qualify for (like volume incentives), or just can't get.
Or, they are going against all the GMS rules and trying to make money on a car that, for all intents and purposes, would bring little, if any, over invoice (less any incentives).
It appears (there is some dispute about this) The dealer wrote down the wrong stock ID number on a new car, and ended up doing the deal for about $7000 under their cost. they also took the customers car in trade.
By the time the dealer figured out their mistake,(if it was a mistake) they called the customer to either kick in an additional $8000 or to return the car. The customer told them to firck off and the dealer ended up repoing the car out of his driveway in the middle of the night.
I was not aware that even though a deal was signed this is apparently a legal thing to do.
What makes this situation a little murkier is that there are allegations this has happened before (although for smaller amounts)with this dealer asking for more money after the customer has taken possession of the car.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
That is really the issue... After the deal is done, and the papers signed, and the car is delivered.... they are coming back, asking for more money...
I'd stick with "I'll bring the car back and unwind the deal, before I give you any more money. Not that I'm offering to do that, since I have a signed agreement." Them offering to split the difference, tells me they are either wrong, or they screwed up, and GM won't offer to help them, either.
One caveat: If GM does get involved and sides with the dealer, they will have to pony up. I wouldn't risk my job on a car deal.
regards,
kyfdx
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It is if the error was obvious and the buyer knew or should have known that an error occurred.
So selling a $75K Vette for $20K then it is obvious and the deal is no good.
Selling a Mustang for $25K when it should have been $26K is not obvious so the deal stands.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Without knowing what state this is happening in, basically nobody can give more than just general advice. There may be extra laws depending on where you are.
That said, the general advice so far has been excellent, especially about getting - in writing - from the dealership why their price is different than what you paid.
I'm gonna disagree with Walt here.
From what I've learned here in the Town Hall, there is no deal until the financing has gone through. This sorta thing happens quite a bit; usually it's a spot delivery that hangs up in financing.
The advice from the pros has always been the same: Bring the car back & unwind... or cough up the dough.
And that's how I'd handle this one.
BTW, the car is still "new" if the deal is unwound. How they explain the 600 miles to the next guy is their problem.
-Mathias
I don't think anybody said anything about financing. I don't think that's the problem here.
Now if it was a cash purchase then it's all over... but those are rare...
-Mathias
graph,
Have I missed something? I have yet to recognize any input from any guys in the biz.
Where are they when you need them? Most of them say if you need help they are here for us.
OK guys feel free to jump in at any time.
One additional suggestion. Keep the car in somebody elses garage and when it is left parked anywhere, for any reason, make sure your favorite Doberman is inside. I understand you can rent one if needed.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It galls me to think that a dealer would have the nerve to demand an additional $1000 after the deal is signed and delivered whether it was an "honest" mistake or not. Why would a dealership risk bad publicity over such a trivial amount? I would go out of my way to tell everyone I know about what XYZ Chevrolet tried to pull on me and my family. Furthermore, this guy is a GM employee. His coworkers would all be eligible to purchase under the same plan as he. This dealer risks alienating a big pool of otherwise loyal GM buyers in this community.
If I were in this situation, I would demand to be shown in black and white exactly where this $1000 difference is coming from. I signed my name to a document that stated that I would pay $X for this Malibu....not X plus $1000. If the dealer doesn't come to his senses fast, I would simply state that the only acceptable remedy to me would be to let the deal stand as is or I would like to return the car and get any money that I had paid returned. Take your pick, Mr. Dealer...either way is fine with me. I believe that they would start backpedaling fast. They do not want this car back. I would be civil and business-like but very firm in my demands. I would absolutely not pay a dime for depreciation or anything such as that considering that this is a dealer mistake and not my mistake. I suspect that this problem will either go away or be escalated quickly. Consulting a lawyer may be a necessary evil in this case.
Malibu's and Chevrolet dealerships are a dime a dozen. I would not ever do business at that dealership, neither as a buyer or as a service customer. I wonder how many poor widows, pensioners, and other unfortunate uninformed paid close to MSRP for a vehicle that should be an invoice deal at any dealer in the country? I am sure that their refund checks are in the mail, aren't you?? If they had gone home and realized that they paid thousands too much, would a dealer allow them to back out of a signed deal?...I doubt it. Absence fraud, a signed deal is a signed deal. Ignorance has a cost, whether it be the buyer or the dealer making the error.
Regardless, this Malibu problem has to be solved one way or the other soon. I assume the paperwork is in limbo at the dealer pending resolution. These people will need a license plate and a registration card soon. Somebody's gotta cave and it would not be me.
Also whenever we have made a mistake like this we have just eaten the differance. The couple of times a mistake like this occured the customer never even found out we just ate the differance and went on with business. Better to take the lower profit deal then to piss off a customer.
My sister (and her husband, the GM employee) is above and beyond honest. If a legitimate mistake was made, they will make good on it.
As more information comes out, I don't know that it is getting any clearer or more muddled.
You guys are right, if there was no obvious attempt to deceive, I don't see where my sister has any obligation, at all, to pony up more money.
This was a lease. The thought process is, whenever my nephew graduates from college (he's a sophomore), he can buy the car at the end of the lease (27 mos), or he can let my niece take it (she's 16....with little in the way of motivation to do anything but graduate from HS). Lease is through GMAC. Everything approved was approved at the dealership.
While I didn't really want to get into the middle of this fracas, my sister asked me to talk to the dealership to see if I could understand what was going on (she is my little sister, after all....I have to help).
The dealership has come up with two stories. First, they told my sister that the extra incentive that made up the $1,000 difference was for GM retirees. The GMS WEB stie made no mention that the extra incentive was for retirees...not even in the fine print (I know, I looked at the entire deal and the GMS WEB site). There are even some minor fees that supposedly aren't allowed under a GMS deal (like doc fees....$75...don't know the rules of GMS, though). Then, they changed their story and said the incentive was for purchase only, not a lease. They've yet been able to tell me (or her) where the stipulation is regarding purchase only incentives.
I asked the dealership to send their GMS paperwork to us showing where these stipulations and discounts are defined. My sister has her paperwork backing up her claim. We haven't seen anything backing up the dealership's claim. I even told them not to mail them, but to fax them, so we could get this resolved.
I floated the opportunity for them to unwind the deal. My sister would return the car (better yet, they can come get the car after they give my sister the fees she paid for the lease). They didn't seem too keen on that option, but haven't rejected it either. She still hasn't heard from the owner of the dealership.
Even that is too much. She pays NOTHING for their mistake if she agrees to unwind the deal.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S