Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    We even had a 795 scored turned down.

    What reason was given?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I'm just hoping to get a glimpse of the new Camaro

    Just for you at the Chicago Auto Show

    image

    image

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "We even had a 795 score turned down."

    That's pretty bad. We thought that the bail out funds would enable banks to keep lending money. So much for promises.

    Richard
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    It used to be that the banks looked at disposable income. This person had high income, plenty of disposable income, but high debt to income ratio because of all the rental properties they own. 8 months ago it was a no brainer deal, 2 months ago a TD.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,698
    Thought of you this morning stuck in a traffic jam behind an accident blocking all but one lane of I75 north edge of Cincy. Several car carriers were in the trucks among us. One had a BLACK Grand Marquis on it.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Thought of you this morning stuck in a traffic jam behind an accident blocking all but one lane of I75 north edge of Cincy

    I thought you were going to say b/c of all the cop cars :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,698
    No. Saw several of the Ohio State Patrol white cars with the strange wheel covers. But I got to see that black GM maybe 50 times as the truck inched forward and then my lane inched forward.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Thought of you this morning stuck in a traffic jam behind an accident blocking all but one lane of I75 north edge of Cincy. Several car carriers were in the trucks among us. One had a BLACK Grand Marquis on it.

    Oh, don't tease the poor man...... :P
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    just hoping to get a glimpse of the new Camaro
    Just for you at the Chicago Auto Show


    It might just be me. I really like the style of a Caddie so I am not prejudice against GM (not Grand Marqui)

    But, that Camaro does nothing for me.

    I even like a Mustang or Challenger much more!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Just based on looks I'd go Mustang, Challenger then Camaro. Back in the 60s I;d have taken the Camaro first. That says something but not what they are trying to say.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Follow that truck!!! What exit did he take? :D

    You love doing this to me, don't you? :P Thanks for at least thinking of me.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "I thought you were going to say b/c of all the cop cars."

    Just wait. You'll be old some day. :P

    Richard
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,288
    "...That Camaro does nothing for me..."

    And I thought I was the only one who felt like that.

    I loved the Mustang post 2005 but when the Challenger came out I looked at the weight and was turned off by the prospect of feeding it with $4.50 gas.

    What the heck, in a few years those kind of cars will be illegal or else it will be like smoking, you'll have to go outside city limits to drive them so no one is exposed to your second-hand fun, :cry:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Was the guy so deep in debt that montly obligation could not add another few hundred dollars? Usually people with 795 are not so deep in debt (for that score it's not enought to just pay on time, e.g. your revolving balance (credit usage) needs to be really low). Or perhaps there was a problem with his income - you know, caviar taste on hamburger budget thing. But again, those kind of people have their credit in the toilet. Somebody with 795 would usually know exactly what they can afford.

    Please, please tell us - why 795 would approve you for a new Land Rover (or whatever else you sell)?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    "...That Camaro does nothing for me..."
    And I thought I was the only one who felt like that.


    IMO they were trying to get the edginess of the new Camry. Toyota did that to appeal to younger people. I don't know if the Camaro name means much to younger people. I think if they were trying to appeal to older people, they should have kept the original classic lines. I hope they had least kept it light enough for 4 and 6 cylinder engines. It looks like it is real big and heavy like a Challenger.

    I'd rather have a GM :P

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,765
    I'm curious about this rejected 795 story, too. Was it like a 4th car or something? There's gotta be more to it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,143
    Thanks for the pics, snake. I want to put my dirty paws on one. Then, if/when I get the chance to test drive one, I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that a very nice, low mileage, well kept, loaded up '07 Tahoe LTZ will fetch me something north of $20K. Write another check for $15K, and get a Camaro SS in the GG garage.

    The again, I may be dreaming that any of that could happen the way I plan.

    imid....welcome to the game of I-75/I-275 crawl.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    There are many things that go into a bank approval. This person had high income - but high debt. Let's say the income was $40k per month, debt at $22K per month. Formally, the bank would approve based on ability, stability and willingess to pay. Now, the debt ratio can be a deal killer (over 40%) regardless of disposable income available. The hardest deals now are people who are upside down, even if the bank carry is in line with the car value. This happens on a new car because of all the incentives. The bank still wants down money now. And the calls are not consistent. Like I say, formally a look at the bureau, the application and the deal structure and one could tell what the bank call would be. This is no longer true.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Yeah - I can certainly understand high debt/income ratio call. We wouldn't be in half of our trouble if banks made those calls before. High score and high debt ratio don't go together very often, but I could see that in very high income people - always paying on time, very high revolving limits, very expensive house, multiple installment consumer loans. All well paid and cared, so no negative credit score impact.

    The car had to be more than just a Land Rover - can't imagine $40K.month not getting approved for a $1000/month lease even at 40% debt ratio - but who knows. Aston Martin perhaps?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    You guys think it's bad here. I just read an article from my home country (Poland) that is not even in big trouble yet (banks don't hold american CDO crap) - yet they deny loans to businesses and cut their credit lines regardless of actual condition. It's enough your business has automotive exposure and they yank your credit line out. Doesn't matter you have orders and payments, doesn't matter you'd been customer for years. Their tables say you should be in trouble so now they make sure you really are. How is that for modern banking :sick: :cry:

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Dino, a lease on a $80k car is a lot more than $1000 per month - I can't even imagine what an Aston martin lease would be.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,288
    "...The bank still wants money down..."

    The concept of walking out the door with a 20-30K item with no money down just boggles my mind. Now people are shocked if asked to make a down payment.

    Way back in 1986 when I bought my Toyota we were waiting for the salesman to come back from the manager. I overheard the discussion in the next cubicle. The dealership was running one of those "No Money Down" promotions and the buyer wasn't happy. I heard the salesman say "But you at least have to pay the sales tax up front".

    I thought to myself "What a deadbeat to come in without even the sales tax to put down".

    Flash forward to about a year ago.

    I'm signing the papers on my new Mitsu and I ask how much they want down. The salesman says "Why put anything down? You're getting 0% financing, why not finance 100% of it including TTL?".

    I guess things have come full circle. Years ago you wouldn't dare put down less than 20% plus TTL. It's back to that now.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    It has always been my understanding that the credit bureaus took all this debt ratio business into account when they came up with a credit score. If he owed that much money in relation to his income his score would not be 795, right?

    Something else has to be going on here...unless the banks no longer believe in credit scores and have decided to concoct their own.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    No, credit score does not look at income, only obligations. Debt ratio is the score is calculated in revolving accounts (credit cards/lines) as ratio of usage vs. capacity, e.g. if your line is $10K and you used $2K then your ratio is 20%, but that's "usage" ratio, not debt/income. Credit buros don't collect information about your paycheck. I'm sure they'd like to, but they aren't allowed. They only collect info from banks, courts, and other institutions - but the tax man or your employer do not report your income to them.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    The concept of walking out the door with a 20-30K item with no money down just boggles my mind

    Most people do not put much if any money down - painless instant gratification. Also, many people do not want to put money down on a depreciating asset.
    Money down on a lease does not make sense as it is bsically just an advance payment and cannot be recouped on the GAP insurance if the car is totaled.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I thought to myself "What a deadbeat to come in without even the sales tax to put down".

    Ha, many folks I deal with don't even have enough in their account for a $100 deposit, let alone sales tax. I had one guy who wanted a new Challenger and didn't even have enough for a full tank of gas until his next payday. I assured him he'll get a tank of gas with the car, but we couldn't get him approved anyways.

    Sometimes getting a $25 deposit on a deal is like pulling teeth. :sick:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    We have relatives back in Poland who aren't doing so well lately either even though they're not involved in the car biz. Tough times. :sick:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Thanks for that info. They purport to know so much about us I just figured they also knew our sources of income and how much. Certainly a good thing that they don't, but to me, it makes their scores practically meaningless.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • golicgolic Member Posts: 714
    and let's even take that one step further:

    So Mr. Buyer, here is the deal. Your trade-in is worth $15,000 and you owe $20,000.

    You have no money to put down on this $30,000 car. So, don't worry GMAC will give you a $35,000 loan for this car AND since you can't afford a high payment we will make this a 72 month loan. Just so we can have a payment to fit your budget.

    And then in 3 or so years you car will decline 20%-30% in value and by then you may have just paid down the original negative equity...and we know you will feel like you are entitled to a new car so DONT worry we will figure out something for you then!!!!
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    and let's even take that one step further: ....we will make this a 72 month loan

    You're a step behind actually. Try 84 or 96 month loan. :blush:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    The Louisville New Car Show is this weekend. Unfortunately they have it packaged with the Carl Casper Custom Auto Show.

    I loved the Custom Auto Show back when the emphasis was on local cars built by regular guys- and Kool "National" cars like the Predicta. Now it has too much of a carnival atmosphere, so I just blow off the New Car Show as well...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,765
    And then in 3 or so years you car will decline 20%-30% in value and by then

    On a GM product? HA!
    Try 50-60%

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Reading an article on the NY Times website.

    “A volume brand and a premium brand can get the job done. Toyota has proven that,” said Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, a Web site that offers car-buying advice. “Cadillac, Chevy, done.”

    Really? Did I miss Toyota selling Scion?
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Really?

    Really what? You're questioning whether Chevy and Cadillac represent volume and premium brands?

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    You're questioning whether Chevy and Cadillac represent volume and premium brands?

    No, I'm questioning the fact that Karl used Toyota as an example of a brand that has been sucessful with only two brands. That's a pretty big mistake IMHO since Toyota has Lexus, Toyota, and Scion.

    “A volume brand and a premium brand can get the job done. Toyota has proven that,” said Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, a Web site that offers car-buying advice.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I'm questioning the fact that Karl used Toyota as an example of a brand that has been sucessful with only two brands.

    I don't think that was the point. The issue was premium versus volume as opposed to 2 versus 3 or 4 or whatever. But I can see how you could interpret that the way you did.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Wow Richard! Get the real thing, a 2005 Lincoln Town Car with only 35 miles on it!
    It's just $17,000 before getting your baby seal club out.
    The extended family won't find this car disappointing.

    And, if times get tough, you can get into the limo business.

    If the worst happens, your neices and nephews will have a blast driving around in one of these.

    Lincoln Towne Car

    Actually, I'd even consider it.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Well, I promised not to call it a con Fusion so here is the final evaluation on the Fusebox!

    Excellent value overall. 25 mpg is quite respectable. This is fairly basic transportation which will get you there fairly comfortably. Some nice extras including digital mileage, outside temp guage, lots of cup holders, instruments are clear and easy to read.

    Brakes though adequate are not very strong. You get used to the slow spongy steering and it is an improvement over most domestic makes, better than say an Impala. Concerns me that there aren't side airbags and I doubt there is stability control. I did get used to that big protrusion under the steering wheel that I banged my knee on, but I have to be aware of it. I don't get a real feeling of solidness and there isn't a sense of being part of the car...it is kind of an appliance that will get you from A to B. Although the trim level is satisfactory, it is really made on a budget.

    Final impression. At one time I would have bought a car like this. If I was looking for a car that appealed to me and it came out at a good price I would have bought a car like this. Now...and I would have to research this a little better but it looks like a new Fusion would cost about $30,000 less discounts about $25,000. Personally, I would go with a one year old Bimmer 3 series for $30k, have 3 year complete warranty for another 3 years....and the car would be worth more after about 5 years...and I'd have more safety, more fun, and a lot more comfort. Another possibility is a one year old Audi for about $22k, and I think I would have a much better car (and very good reliability these days), and a car that would be a little more "special".

    It's been 3 weeks now in FL with one week more to go....time has flown by. Hope it is good where you are.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,288
    "...Hope it is good where you are..."

    That's right, rub it in with your nice warm weather and your fancy Fords. I'll be cursing you as I await yet another snow storm. :sick:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,143
    I understand what Karl's saying. And I agree with him.....I've felt the same way for awhile, now.

    What can you get with GMC that you can't get over at the neighboring Chevy store? Why can't a Pontiac G8 not be a Chevy Impala SS? Heck, with current discounts, why buy a Buick LuCerne/LaCrosse when you can have a Caddy CTS for about the same price?

    Toyota may have a little overlap with Scion vs Toyota. Not like GM, though. Truth told, you could easily change the badge of an xA, xB, and a TC to a Toyota badge and no one would care, dumping the Yaris, and maybe even the Matrix, in the process. Plus, all the Scion dealerships could close, saving the franchisees a ton of money.

    Aside from Richard's elusive Grand Marquis, what can you get at the Mercury dealership that can't be had at the Ford or Lincoln store?

    Chrysler? Why throw good money after bad? Dumping Aspen, Durango, and whatever other models they plan on mothballing isn't going to save them. Daimler and Cerebus are just going to have to take their financial lumps (thanks for nothing Mr. Schremp and Dr Z). Their horrendous mismanagement, in large part, put them in their predicament. Put Jeep up for auction and be done with it.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Thanks for sending the link to the 2005 Town Car with 35 miles on it. Perhaps "all that glitters is not gold". Think upon the following points:

    1. The pictures show a gold pearl exterior color. The Carfax Report says that the exterior color is black.

    2. Notice the picture of the driver's seat and tell me that it has only been 35 miles in its life.

    3. With only 35 miles, where has this car been sitting for over three years?

    4. The gray color interior is more in line with a black car. Notice color of the dash. I would think that a gold pearl exterior would have a different interior color.

    The real history of this car would be interesting to know.

    BTW, did you notice that there was only one poster on this thread all of yesterday? I don't ever remember that happening. :surprise:

    Thanks again. If all were true, that would be a great deal.

    Richard
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I think they meant 35k miles, as in thousand. It might make more sense on a 4 year old car. Otherwise if it would be new, then they'd mention it I'm sure.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Many years ago the wife wanted a van and we went out looking at a nearby auto mall and we saw a [model] year old Town Car brand spanking new never outside the showroom for about the same price we bought a Caravan for. This was in the 90's and they changed the body style. So they had over $10K off of MSRP.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    1. The pictures show a gold pearl exterior color. The Carfax Report says that the exterior color is black.

    The guy in the video does say black too, yet all the pictures show white.

    In the video he definitely says 35 miles.........not 35K which I thought could be a misprint too.

    After I thought, maybe it is one of those cars that was in a flood zone.

    Then again, maybe somebody bought it and had a heart attack on the way home!

    It's quite the deal....kind of makes me just dream a bit..............

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    That's right, rub it in with your nice warm weather and your fancy Fords. I'll be cursing you as I await yet another snow storm.

    I know what you mean OF, we keep checking the weather back home and are so happy to be here.

    We went to the Edison/Ford museum yesterday and it is pretty interesting. Edison, Henry Ford and Firestone were all buddies. They each put up $25000 to try to develop more rubber for tires...during WW1. They grew Banyon trees to extract latex, then tried lots of other plants, golden rods were good and they grow like weeds, because they are weeds.
    Edison helped develop motion pictures and phonograph players and of course light bulbs and electricity for home consumption, but Westinghouse with AC current won out.
    Makes you wonder when these things would have come about if he hadn't developed them.
    And we have a gas shortage and environmental problems. But, at that time a shortage of rubber was a real serious problem. There's always some kind of problem going on, and hopefully someone comes along with a solution.

    One other thought. With all the fancy cars, people packing the outdoor cafes, and fancy - expensive clothes stores in St Armand's Circle Sarasota you'd hardly know there was a recession going on. And with my fancy Ford Fusebox, I looked like the poorest person around. Going around that circle there was every kind of fancy car including a Rolls, every luxury convertible known to man, and even a red Audi R8!!!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The video descriptions are nothing more than a computerized program reading out the specs. I take it that's what you're referring to. So if someone typed in 35 miles, that's what the program will say. There is no person actually sitting by the microphone and talking about the car.
    Can't explain the black color though.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    . There is no person actually sitting by the microphone and talking about the car.

    Boom, I thought that was part of your job. Sit and wait until someone goes online and then you speak to them and make it seem all the info is from a computer program.

    Can't explain the black color though.

    I guess they pressed the wrong key when they were making the video.

    It's a pretty cool program if it worked properly. Would really like to know what the scam is though.....it just seems too good to be true. Speaking of scams, we answered a call on our U.S. cell phone and it was someone selling car warranties, the same scam that's in Canada. That call cost us $1.50 and we just received an unwanted call :sick:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Haha, yes, I took training on how to speak with a computer aceent. lol

    Actually some dealerships now have live chat for anyone browsing on their websites. It's a live person, and the internet surfer can ask questions and receive instant responses.

    You could have lost a lot more than $1.50 if you were to fall for the warranty scam. :surprise:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "Going around that circle there was every kind of fancy car including..."

    Also, I'm sure that some lovely GM's were going around the circle as well. :shades:

    Richard
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Makes you wonder when these things would have come about if he hadn't developed them.

    Many of those things were inevitable and likely would have been developed by others very quickly. People like Nicola Tesla (and others!) were doing all kinds of explorations based on developments in physics some 100 years earlier by Faraday, Ampere and others. That is not to detract from Edison's genius. He got there first and we're grateful for that.

    A similar thing happened with electronics. The work of Planck, Heisenberg and others at the beginning of the 20th century eventually led to semiconductors, lasers and so on some 50+ years later.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
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