Stories from the Sales Frontlines

fezo

Yeah, my brother has a PT Cruiser with a stick up in Portland, ME.

I've got an Accord with a stick. Not too worried about resale since it's a 2000 with maybe 160K on it.

While even Accords are almost all automatics now I'd bet that they have a higher percentage of sticks than Chrysler does.

sterlingdog

"Richard would have got(ten) $500 too much for his Explorer."

That's true, but I didn't tell THEM. Besides, they probably wanted to get rid of a GM so they sweetened the pie a little. After all, they weren't trying to get rid of a BMW.

Richard

isellhondas

PT Cruisers are so far "back of book" that it's scary. The rental companies dump these en masse into a market that soured on these years ago.

A five speed would be almost impossible to sell at least in my area.

As far as Craigslist? Anyone can ASK anything. These people are probably hopelessly buried in them.

The bloom is definatly off the rose on these!

snakeweasel

The only Chrysler offered with a stick is the PT which I personally have not seen one in that configuration.

Doesn't the Crossfire come in a stick? Or did they stop making those?

sterlingdog

I guess times are changing. When I bought my wife her Miata in 2000, she wanted automatic. The dealer said that an automatic in a Miata would kill the resale value. We followed his advice. When she traded for her CRV in 2003, the first question from the Honda salesman was, "It isn't an automatic, is it?"

Richard

isellhondas

Defination of saleproof: A PT Cruiser with a five speed!

The automatics are so far back of book it's crazy!

The bloom is off the rose on these...BIG TIME!

isellhondas

Yes, a Miata is a rare exception where few peope want the automatics.

My wife would though!

snakeweasel

Gee everyone I knew that had a Miata had an automatic.

isellhondas

Are you serious?

At least with the older ones probably 10% were automatics.

boomchek

That's interesting. My BMW delaership says about 40% are standard.

Maybe for BMWs. Or is your dealer talking about Chryslers?

The thing is Chrysler doesn't make many manuals anymore aside from the base and SRT4 Caliber, the discontinued PT, some Dakotas and Rams, manual Challengers, and the Jeeps, except the Grand Cherokee.

The sedans like 300, Charger, Avenger, Sebring all come in autos only. You can't even get the Ram with a Hemi with a stick.

Autos these days are so efficient and advanced that they're as good if not better than manual trannies.

snakeweasel

Are you serious?

Yep serious, my sister is in the demography (more urban liberal yuppie type) that went wild for the Miata when they first came out. She and many of her friends got them. Not one had a manual. Maybe ten years ago up in the Galena, IL area we happened to go up there when a Miata club was there. I strolled through the parking lot of the ski resort they all ended up at looking at the Miatas and I remember thinking that it was a shame that so few had manual trannies.

dino001

Another exception would be Subaru Impreza WRX (before they renamed them to GT). You need to look for an auto, even in Florida (basically auto-[non-permissible content removed] country). Don't know percentage, but it's low.

driver100

Maybe for BMWs. Or is your dealer talking about Chryslers?

40% of Bimmers are stick....and fewer each year. He wasn't talking about Chryslers.
I'll take your word on Chryslers...99.9% automatics.

Autos these days are so efficient and advanced that they're as good if not better than manual trannies.

True, even smoother gear shifts too, but not as much fun, and not as great driving experience.

driver100

"Richard would have got(ten) $500 too much for his Explorer."

Richard, you just couldn't resist could you?

they probably wanted to get rid of a GM so they sweetened the pie a little.
After all, they weren't trying to get rid of a BMW.

lol

snakeweasel

but not as much fun, and not as great driving experience.

Depends on where you are driving. Try driving a stick in some of the rush hour traffic in one of our major metro areas.

driver100

Try driving a stick in some of the rush hour traffic in one of our major metro areas.

You're right SW. When I was commuting 2 hours each way every day I would not want a stick shift. I forgot about that. Stick cars are just for enjoyment driving, and anyway, it's too hard to drink your coffee and talk on your cell phone and shift gears all at the same time. A going to work car should only be an automatic.

*It is really hard to dial and talk on a cell phone with a stick. The few times I do it I have to tell the other person to hang on at each shift.

venture

I hope you didn't buy a BMW that will be saleproof down the road.

If AWD is "all they get" in your neck of the woods, there is a reason for that. You may have bought a car that will be very difficult to sell down the road?

There are only two BMW dealerships anywhere near me. They sell AWD almost exlusively "to maximize profits" - straight from the Sales Manager's lips.

oregonboy

it's too hard to drink your coffee and talk on your cell phone and shift gears all at the same time

Especially if your smoking and eating a Big Mac as well.

Driving a stick in traffic only bothers me if it is truly stop-and-go... and that isn't even that bad unless it's on an uphill slope. THAT gets to be a drag... traffic moving slower than an idle in 1st gear.

Resale is not an issue for me because I keep my vehicles a long, LONG time. Of more concern is the relative expense of maintaining and/or repairing an automatic vs a manual. I'll even bet there are a few Honda Odyssey minivan owners who wished (in retrospect) that their vehicle had come with a stick. (Sorry Isell, I couldn't help myself. :P )

driver100

They sell AWD almost exlusively "to maximize profits" -

If the info is correct you are in a pretty snowy area. Why not get AWD?

Remember, "Mr. Safety says, buy 4 wheel drive when available and if you can afford it - it's the only way to go".

driver100

Of more concern is the relative expense of maintaining and/or repairing an automatic vs a manual.

I am not the technical expert, only the safety expert, but I understand automatics should be pretty much trouble free for 250,000 miles or so...with regular maintenance.

Although I am a manual shift fan, I have a feeling clutches and parts are going to need more repairs over that time....that's just a not too educated guess.

boomchek

I say sticks are less expensive to maintain, even with clutch replacements.

Someone told me a manual tranny has a few hundred parts, an automatic has a couple thousand. Not sure if it's true, but it's rare you hear that a manual tranny needs an overhaul.

As for the fun of driving, it only makes sense in performance cars, even low horsepower light ones. Not in a poor handling, underpowered, economobile with a clunky manual.

venture

To quote Mike Miller of Tech Talk, "...the only way we can increase traction is with tires. In snow, ice, and slush, there is only one way to increase traction, and that is with four good snow tires. Everything else, including AWD, is a Band-Aid. AWD is just a bigger Band-Aid."

I used Michelin X-Ice on all four wheels. No problems. No sense in dragging all that extra weight around all the time.

snakeweasel

Someone told me a manual tranny has a few hundred parts, an automatic has a couple thousand. Not sure if it's true, but it's rare you hear that a manual tranny needs an overhaul.

An automatic is more complicated and has more parts and is more likey to suffer breakdowns and costs more to repair. But as driver said automatic are getting more and more reliable, my daily drive now has over 160K on it with it being services just a couple of times. I am sure I would have gone through 3 clutches by now if I had a manual so Its not hard to say a manual would have cost me more than the auto has.

Now watch me drop my tranny on the way home.

houdini1

Richard, today I saw a deep, dark, metallic grey Crown Vic. So dark it was almost black. Very good looking. I don't know if the GM comes in this color but I would suspect that it does. Have you checked out this color?

zenking

I bought a 2006 6-speed manual Accord EX V6 (sedan) exactly one year ago. I paid only $17,500 and it had only 16,500 miles on it. Since it was a later production date, I still had 18 months left on the original warranty. The manual tranny in the Accord sedans are rare and the salesman admitted that is why they had it reduced. He said they could sell them all day long (manuals) in the coupe, as that attracted a younger buyer and they are more interested in the sticks. Older folks typically don't want to mess around shifting, so I got a deal. I keep my cars a long time (8 years minimum), so the resale is no big deal. Honda dropped the manual in the V6 sedan after only two years (06 and 07) because they didn't sell at all. Do a search on autotrader, or cars.com and you won't find many.

sterlingdog

It wasn't on the '08 color chart. It may be on the '09 but I don't know. That does sound like a pretty color. Thanks for telling me.

Richard

sterlingdog

"Richard, you just couldn't resist could you?"

I apologize. I tried to do it quietly and discreetly. :P

Richard

isellhondas

Well, I have, literally seen hundreds of Miatas and I have owned two of them and I can count the automatics I've seen on the fingers of one hand.

Things must be different where you are!

isellhondas

Well, the 6 speed coupes weren't good sellers but ehe sedans were worse than saleproof. No, resale isnt a big deal if you keep your cars that long and because they are unpopular you got a great deal.

People kept asking for them but when Honda decided to take a chance and build a few, they were a flop.

boomchek

People kept asking for them but when Honda decided to take a chance and build a few, they were a flop.

It's always like that. You see it especially in the magazines letters to the editor section when people are writing "If they build it I'll be the first in line to put a deposit on it"

Everyone is an expert and a "buyer" until they actually have to put up their own money for the product they so much demanded.

I see it a lot in the showroom too. But few if any are willing to put a deposit on it, or actually pick up their phone when I call them few months later when the product does show up. :confuse:

au1994

All the talk about stick shifts reminded me of 2 odd balls from my high school days.

The first was the family accross the street that had a 1st gen Caravan with a 5 spd.

2nd was a friend that got a 1st gen Explorer Eddie Bauer 2 door. If that wasn't odd enough, it was a stick. It was purchased by a travelling salesman and was about 5 yrs old when he got it and had 100k on it already.

driver100

's too hard to drink your coffee and talk on your cell phone and shift gears all at the same time Especially if your smoking and eating a Big Mac as well.

The other thing I thought about after I brought the 6 speed stick home was...what happens if I break a leg or an arm? My wife's car is also 6 speed stick. :sick:

Oh well, I'll enjoy it while I can and hopefully that won't happen. I think the mentalexercise of shifting plus the hand leg coordination must be good for my health!

percussionist

I found the 5 speed Caravan interesting.

All of our vehicles are manual - we like them more. Even our scooter has a four speed manual shift (Bajaj Chetak - sort of modeled after the classic Vespas. In fact, many Vespas of the '70s were actually made in India by Bajaj).

Yes, resale value is lower, but so is the initial sale price. We tend to save about $1000 every time we buy a new car by choosing the manual instead of automatic. Of course, with our Hyundai, we had to wait for one to come in the way we wanted. The whole process took about two months, but we weren't in a hurry. Our plan is to drive the car until it's dead, so it does not matter if the resale value is low.

That being said, I see the resale value argument if you plan to trade in 3 years.

driver100

"Richard, you just couldn't resist could you?"
I apologize. I tried to do it quietly and discreetly.

You were discreet and I appreciate your comments. My wife is also an expert on grammar and apostrophes (oh Oh - does that need one) so one day I'll write the perfect message.

sterlingdog

Check this out. Last Friday, we took some oriental rugs up to the Karastan Rug factory to be cleaned. The factory is in Eden, north of Greensboro. When I pulled up in front of the warehouse, I noticed a black Grand Marquis parked in an employee spot. As if that wasn't enough of a surprise, I looked inside the window and spotted a stick shift! The interior was black leather. The entire car had a rather ominous appearance. Naturally, I had to inquire. The car belongs to the assistant manager of the warehouse. He wasn't available but an employee said that he had purchased it new and modified it. He said that it would run like a "bat out of h---". Maybe I need to make him an offer that he can't refuse. :P

Richard

isellhondas

Over the years, I have owned a number of collector type cars.

I would sometimes find a note under my wiper blade with the name an number of someone who said.." If you ever decide to sell this car,give me a call"..

Or at car show events, people would hand me cards and tell me the same thing.

Then, six months later, I would decide to move on and I would give these people a call.

" Ah....ah....oh yeah!.....well....I'm not in a position to buy it now"

The ones who can't understand WHY Honda wouldn't build a certain car are probably the last ones who could or would actually buy one!

oldfarmer50

"...The bloom is off the rose on these...BIG TIME!..."

OK, now you're just teasing me. You know that I love buying cars that everyone else thinks are dogs. If a PT Cruiser was wildly popular a few years ago and now folks can't stand it what has changed? Only the perception, not the car.

So now I can walk in and get one for a song.

oldfarmer50

"...Especially if your smoking and eating a Big Mac..."

It's not good for your health to EAT a Big Mack, let alone SMOKE one! :P

traindriver

Possibilities to consider:

A 2006 but miles are low

same car, different site

an 07

sorry they aren't a little closer; still beating the bushes for you...

wish it were black

....or should that be "wish it was black" ? eeny meeny miney moe

graphicguy

imid....part of my Sunday Ritual is to go to Jungle Jims after church to get produce, deli stuff and their butcher. Of course, I hit all the edible freebies they offer. Then, over to Costco for paper goods, computer stuff, while finishing off their free food du jour.

For those who are unfamiliar with Jungle Jims, it's a very large international market that was voted to have the best public bathrooms in the country. :shades:

graphicguy

isell.....I can see where a standard tranny in an Accord, Camry (do they still make standard shift Camry?), or any other family type vehicle would make them almost unsalable.

But, the sports cars I've owned, I've never seen the penalty. That said, from different sources I've read, automatic 'vettes make up over 75% of the production line.

Perhaps a lot of this is because the vast majority of people never make it a point to learn how to drive a manual transmission. Personally, I made it a point to teach my son how to drive a manual transmission when he was still on his learner's permit. I think it gives a driver (especially a new driver) more insight to how a car works, how it handles, what the limits of the car are.

While he did burn through a couple of clutches in his first car over the period of 18 months, he learned valuable lessons. Now, he won't even entertain driving any of my "automatic" vehicles.

It's a small-ish market of people who actually know how to drive a manual transmission. From that perspective alone, it's hard to sell anything to anyone if they don't know how it works, or how to operate it.

I've privately sold a couple of cars with manual transmissions that HAD TO include lessons on how to drive it before I could make the sale.

Regarding PT Cruisers, yes they were very popular for a few years. It was a segment buster. Problem was, Chrysler never really updated it aside from adding different drivetrains. I've seen a few examples of convertible PTs, but that's about it. Just one of the many foibles they made...take a successful entre, and run it into the ground.

cdn_tch

...to get produce, deli stuff and their butcher...

So once you get the butcher, what do you do with him/her??? :P

driver100

, I noticed a black Grand Marquis parked in an employee spot. As if that wasn't enough of a surprise, I looked inside the window and spotted a stick shift!

Go for it Richard....I think it was meant to be. Maybe he'll throw in a free rug cleaning.

mcdawgg

Yes, the Camry is still available with a 5 speed manual (I have one), and the 2010 coming next month will have a 6 speed manual.

I've privately sold a couple of cars with manual transmissions that HAD TO include lessons on how to drive it before I could make the sale.

We'd love to hear those stories!

imidazol97

Jungle Jims is 6 acres. The restroom thing is because of this:



Website

Video

This was started by a grad of Miami Univ. I recall wondering at the time about what a big deal--he started a specialty grocery store. That was many years ago. He even has the monorail from Kings Island that used to run through the Africa wild animal exhibit, but it has never been completely installed--only part is in place.

Maybe if some posters/readers here have some spare time, they can fix up the restrooms in their dealership. Maybe compete for Cintas' best restroom award. People could work on building the restroom between customers...?

isellhondas

I never said PT Cruisers were dogs.

If someone happens to like them they go begging, price wise now and they can be picked up dirt cheap.

I give Chrysler a lot of credit here. They took a lackluster Neon and fitted it with a retro body to make it look like a 1938 Plymouth and people went wild over them!

Things were great for the first couple of years as people paid over MSRP to own one of these. Then, they got old, Chrysler had nowhere to go with them and sales stopped.

Ah, but the rental companies bought them by the tons only to dump them a year or two later at distressed prices which made a ruined market much worse.

All of this was forseeable just like the current economic mess.

driver100

Jungle Jims is 6 acres. The restroom thing is because of this:

Wow GG, you can eat your meals there, shave and shower and watch 5 large screen LCD tvs....who needs a home?

Interesting...Do not take carts into stalls signs......what do people sit in there and eat?

cracovian

IIHS rates the PT Cruiser as the most unsafe small car in America. I don't care how much they cost though 2009s are actually quite expensive and not discounted as much. Used cabrios cost even more than new but Cerberus killed it in 2008 - go figure...

Is it just me or do you also see that the incentives (especially on the domestics) were twice as much just a couple of years ago when times were "good"? I just don't see many good values out there on the current overpriced metal with questionable safety... plus so many better models are coming out in 2010; it'd be a waste to buy anything right now unless truly desperate...

golic

It reminds me of how I learned stick. I found a job in college that was about 3 miles away from campus. I was running around the dorm to find a car to borrow and this girl let me use her Camry.

I jumped in the car and looked down and said "Oh...Shi#!" Somehow, I made it to the job and I ended up dating the girl - mostly just so I had a car to use. I had the thing mastered within a few weeks, but the first few days I kept praying the clutch woulnd't fall out. Well she had the car for 5 years..and never needed it replaced so I couldn't have been that bad on it.

Another note on "sale proof" I always have the same thing on my mind every time I see one of those "pink" Mary Kay or is it Avon cars??? If I saw one of those pull into the lot, I think I would run and hide in the bathroom...

fezo

I'm one of those who would have bought the Accord 6cyl sedan with a stick but I wasn't buying in that little window of time when they offered it. if there's still some lightly used ones around when the 00 Accord goes I'll look at those. If not such is life. I long ago realized I'm never going to own as many cars as I'd like to.