Stories from the Sales Frontlines

explorerx4

richard,
i would stay away from that car because it has the air suspension, which is very expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.

driver100

"Going around that circle there was every kind of fancy car including..."
Also, I'm sure that some lovely GM's were going around the circle as well.

lol........Yes Richard, I forgot to mention GMs because they are so ubiquitous around here. Since the average age in this part of the country is 86 years old, everyone who can't afford a real luxury car (like a Jag, Lincoln Towne Car, Cadillac, Mercedes) drives an ersatz GM. They have the look of an expensive car but of course GMs are relatively inexpensive. I would say at least half have a vinyl roof added for that extra luxurious look.

Around Sun City, which is about 8 miles away, the golf carts and the GMs are battling it out in popularity. At the drug store and grocery store there are about 15 parking spots dedicated to "golf carts"! The golf carts are on the roads just like cars and some of those golf carts get pretty fancy, they have grills and rear lights like a Mercedes or Cadillac.

Richard, if you wait much longer that's the GM you will be driving.

driver100

Makes you wonder when these things would have come about if he hadn't developed them.
Many of those things were inevitable and likely would have been developed by others very quickly.

But maybe we would be 30 years behind in development, and the hottest car on the road would be a GM.

Actually, the hottest car would probably be a GTO and I just saw the other day on NBC news the Pontiac name is about to disappear.

houdini1

A similar thing happened with electronics. The work of Planck, Heisenberg and others at the beginning of the 20th century eventually led to semiconductors, lasers and so on some 50+ years later.

Are you kidding? We all know all this electronic stuff came from reverse engineering that crashed flying saucer at Roswell !!

graphicguy

Well, hit the local car show last night with my son. First impressions, it was a Saturday night. Weather wasn't good, but it wasn't bad, either. We got there about 7:00 p.m. (should be prime time).

I go to this same show every year, on the same night, right about the same time. I'd say attendance was half (probably less) of what it's been in the past.

Forgot my camera. But, aside from Ford, there wasn't much new to see.

You guys are right about the Camaro. I was a little disappointed. While they wouldn't let us get close to sit in it or touch it, the RS looks better in pictures than it does in person.

The 2010 Mustang GT (also on display) looks better, even though it's more evolutionary than revolutionary as a redesign. Mustang's interior is much better than the previous design.

But, a regular 'old Mustang GT will get spanked by the uplevel Camaro if the specs are to be believed.

-09 F-150.....only two I saw had an MSRP of over $48K :surprise:

'10 Fusion, Taurus will sell....maybe not in the numbers Ford wants, but they were gathering a crowd. Not my cup of tea, however.

LIncoln has some new cars across the entire line gathering a crowd. Again, not my cup of tea.

Richard, not one Grand Marquis that I could find in the Mercury display. They had a '10 Milan on display (Fusion clone). That was about it, though.

Ummmmm......not sure how many of those they'll sell.

As expected, you could throw a basketball from one side of the Chrysler display to the other, and not hit anyone. Chrysler had some sort of teeny-tiny concept car there. No info on it, though. Looked to be some sort of "urban car" similar to a SMART. No details anywhere to be found. Challengers were getting looks. But, have they changed the 300 at all since it was introduced? They had 3-300s on display, Not one soul around them.

Decided to bring a PT Cruiser......curious....since it's going to be axed. Minivans were getting the most looks.

One Jeep concept....not much interest in it, though. Heard someone slamming the door of a Grand Cherokee. It sounded like it was made of Reynolds Wrap. Not a good sign.

Didn't see much love over at the BMW booth, except for a sweet 135i. Same for Acura. I don't have any issues with their new styling. Everybody else did, based on the passer's by comments. I'm obviously in the minority.

Infiniti G coupe was getting a lot of stairs. But, over at the Nissan booth, the 370z didn't. Personally, I liked it but thought it was a bit over the top styling wise. Maxima had a crowd, but mostly people staring at the MSRP and looking dazed ($38K).

Mazeratti had gawkers. Just a wee bit out of my price range, though.

Saw one H3 Hummer. No one cared. Nor, was anyone interested in the Escalade (even the hybrid). SUVs in general didn't have people around them. Pickups did draw a crowd, still. Mighty big change from the past.

Porsche always gathers a crowd. Not so Mercedes (which was near).

No one was looking at anything in the Hyundai booth....except for the Genesis. The more I'm exposed to it, the more I like it. But, the local Hyundai dealership rep made it a point to tell me that "YES", they're discounting the Genesis. I didn't even have to prod him. While he said he wasn't allowed to quote exact figures, he said that one could be bought for "thousands" under MSRP....any model, any option package. That would put them in the mid-upper $30Ks.

Sitting in a Cadillac CTS, an Acura RL, an Infiniti M series, BMW, MB 5 series, all for $50K+ MSRP, and sitting in a V8 Genesis, for $40K MSRP, Cadillac, Lincoln, BMW, Infiniti, Mercedes......all of them have a problem on their hands.

Driving one every day may tell a different story, but I'd be rethinking my products if I were on their product planning committee.

Unscientific for certain, but spending a couple of hours at the show, my general impression was Ford has a fighting chance. Hyundai is fine, as is Porsche.

Every other manufacturer, and model is in for a long, rocky ride.

driver100

Well, hit the local car show last night

Great review of the car show gg. I felt like I was right there.

Sounds like the economy is putting a damper on peoples dreams. Movie theatre sales are up, but sales there do go up when people don't have much money to spend on other luxuries.

This economic situation will probably make people rethink their car buying process. Coming up from Longboat Key (fancy area) I had a big red Hummer on my rear bumper (of the Fusebox) and I thought what an ignorant pig....the last use of his stupid Hummer is to try to run people off the road. People look ridiculous filling those things up at the gas station too.

Oh well, really liked your review and insights about the show.

driver100

That is not to detract from Edison's genius.

Next door to Edison's Florida residence was Henry Fords summer home. I did some checking up on Henry and I don't think Mr Munroe can by a Ford product either, even if he wanted too. Ford was a big fan of Hitler (Hitler loved cars and he had a picture of Henry in his office) and Ford was a big admirer of Hitler.

Ford seemed to have changed his thoughts later in life but that might have been because the government talked about seizing Ford for the war effort and the public weren't buying his cars and didn't like his political and other views.

I guess JM...you can still buy a Volvo.

sterlingdog

You did a great review of the show. I really enjoyed getting your perspective on all of the cars. I now know why you didn't see a GM in the Mercury booth. I understand that the '09 is it for GM. It's going to the great lot in the sky.

Can't believe that Chrysler showed up with a PT Cruiser. It's a shame that it and the 300 were all that they could muster.

Like you, the more that I see of the Genesis, the more that I like it.

Thanks for a great report.

Richard

tidester

We all know all this electronic stuff came from reverse engineering that crashed flying saucer at Roswell !!

That would go a long way toward explaining the source or Ron Popeil's "inventions," the ShamWow and Apple's one button mouse! :shades:

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

kyfdx

GG... can't believe you missed the Grand Marquis.. It was that beige/gold color.. I thought of you, Richard..

I got to the show around Noon... The crowds are definitely down from last year.. Didn't have any trouble getting to sit in whatever I wanted..

The BMW display was definitely pitiful.. really like the new 2010 Mustang..

As a group, I'd have to say the Audis are the best looking..

driver100

GG... can't believe you missed the Grand Marquis.. It was that beige/gold color..

lol (so many of them are washed out beige/gold, really suits the car).........Personally I like the "Hair Blue" color.

The BMW display was definitely pitiful..

It's a real sign of the times. Cutting back that is. I guess you have to figure how many sales are you going to make because of the show.

really like the new 2010 Mustang..

Glad to hear Mustang looks good. Was hoping they wouldn't ruin it by trying to make it look too edgy.

As a group, I'd have to say the Audis are the best looking..

I like the driving dynamics of a BMW. But I agree, Audi's have the best styling, simple and elegant. All Audis even 20 or 30 years old still look good today.
When I see you can get a one year old Audi with low miles for about $22,000 without even trying I don't understand buying a Fusebox, but to each his own.

jmonroe

No one was looking at anything in the Hyundai booth....except for the Genesis.

That’s because they were all at my local Hyundai store. :surprise: I had to go right by the local store yesterday so I stopped by to take another look at the Genesis (they had 4 in stock. Two V-6’s and two V-8’s. I’m only interested in the V-8 now.). That place was crawling with people, so much so that they were waiting in the lounge area for their chance to talk to a sales person. I’d say there were 7/8 desks with people at each of them. I didn’t have to worry about wasting any ones time; they were PACKED in that store.

But, the local Hyundai dealership rep made it a point to tell me that "YES", they're discounting the Genesis. I didn't even have to prod him.

Yeah, I know. Just before I came here, I went to the web site of the Hyundai dealership across town where I bought the 06’ Sonata. They’re running an internet special for the Genesis V-6 that has an MSRP of 35K (even), for $32,699. That’s the model they called me about around 4 months ago saying they could drop the price $1600.

Times are definitely tough out there. I’m trying to talk myself into taking advantage of a car buying period that probably won’t last too much longer.

Who knows? Maybe the two old timers here might be the only ones that have a REAL “Story from the Sales Frontlines” to discuss.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

Oh, no! Don't tell me that they used the beige/gold color (Sandstone) for the car show! They could have at least used a black one. Maybe, like me, they couldn't find one. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

"...taking advantage of a car buying period that probably won't last too much longer."

You have a good point. I was reading yesterday that there is now a demand for good used cars one or two years old. Their prices are expected to rise. If that is the case, then production of new cars will come with MSRP minus rebates, employee pricing, discounts, etc. Some dealers are calling owners of one year old cars to come in and trade their cars for new ones at about the same price that they paid a year ago. It's getting creative and crazy out there.

Richard

snakeweasel

I go to this same show every year, on the same night, right about the same time. I'd say attendance was half (probably less) of what it's been in the past.

Here in Chicago there was a large crowd even for a monday afternoon. Wasn't as crowed when we first got there but it was when the show opened and there were hundreds in lines 100 or more feet long waiting to buy tickets (we had complementary tickets so we passed that. Towards the end some of the displays had so many people it was hard to get a good look at times.

As expected, you could throw a basketball from one side of the Chrysler display to the other, and not hit anyone

We had a pretty good crowd at Chrysler he in Chicago

No one was looking at anything in the Hyundai booth....except for the Genesis.

Here in Chicago the only thing not being looked at at Hyundai was the Accent. Did they have this there?



Lincoln has some new cars across the entire line gathering a crowd.

Did they have this?

jmonroe

I did some checking up on Henry and I don't think Mr Munroe can by a Ford product either, even if he wanted too.

Ford seemed to have changed his thoughts later in life but that might have been because the government talked about seizing Ford for the war effort and the public weren't buying his cars and didn't like his political and other views.

You’re not as far off as you might think. In the 50’s I remember several member of my family, on both sides, that wouldn’t buy a Ford because of the things you said. There also weren’t many Fords in our neighborhood. I remember hearing that General Motors has more to offer than Ford, so why support someone who had the political views that he had. Early on I didn’t understand what these adults were saying but in time I figured it out.

I guess JM...you can still buy a Volvo.

Even a Saab, I just heard the other day they want to be an independent company again. My choices are great. :P

BTW, it’s Monroe (like the ex US president that I’m not related to) not Munroe (I have no idea who he is)

jmonroe

roadburner

When I see you can get a one year old Audi with low miles for about $22,000 without even trying I don't understand buying a Fusebox, but to each his own.

I'm the same way; when I see new car ad I almost always think, "What used BMW/Porsche/ Triumph bike could I get for the same money?"

roadburner

Well, I'm still trying to decide if I should trade my perfectly good 2007 Mazdaspeed3 for a 2003 BMW 540i 6 speed. The dealer isn't making it easy; the advertised price has now dropped to $14,897- a $6053 drop since it was first advertised in mid-January. I think that the car has three strikes against it that have kept it on the lot:

1. Color- I love the color, but most local BMW buyers seem to want either black or silve. BORING...
2. Manual Transmission
3. No warranty(everybody knows an oil change on a BMW costs $750)

Methinks I'm going to offer between $500-$1000+MS3 OTD. If they take it, fine. If not, I'll keep the Mazda...

cdnpinhead

Color- I love the color, but most local BMW buyers seem to want either black or silver. BORING...

What is that color that you like?

I'm famous for picking colors that are deadly when it comes time to resell the car -- orange, green, blue, that kind of thing. Now I have red, which is great for me but not so much for the lemmings who seek silver, black, white or gold.

It appears that "high-end" cars come in borning colors, more often than not, and it seems to work everytime it's tried.

Go figure.

fezo

Probably one of those two dozen shades of blue that BMW has at any given moment. Not complaining - most of them look great!

roadburner

What is that color that you like?

Topaz Blue:

driver100

What is that color that you like?
Topaz Blue:

That's a really nice blue. Mine is Atlantic Blue Metalic, the same blue James Bond had on the first BMW he ever drove...a Z3 in Goldeneye. Almost as nice as MR "goldy kind a beige". Just joking, really !

Talk about sales frontlines. The dealer didn't have the paint chip so I had to rent the stupid movie to try to see what color I was getting. I had to watch a 2 hour movie to get a 45 second glimpse of the color. It was an anxious 2 months waiting to see what it would look like.

venture

When I bought my BMW the dealer had to trade with another dealer, in New Jersey, to get it. They didn't have the options I wanted and didn't want - specifically I didn't want AWD which is all they get here in the frozen tundra of central Pennsylvania. :P

As I was leaving the dealer he asked me what color I wanted. I hadn't even thought about color. I guess I'm like isell, color doesn't mean too much to me. I just told them "any color but blue".

I ended up with black which suited me fine.

cdnpinhead

Nice. That would have been my second choice after red.

tjc78

i would stay away from that car because it has the air suspension

So does the Grand Marquis.... (at least in the rear)

isellhondas

I hope you didn't buy a BMW that will be saleproof down the road.

If AWD is "all they get" in your neck of the woods, there is a reason for that. You may have bought a car that will be very difficult to sell down the road?

roadburner

Nice. That would have been my second choice after red.

I love Imola Red, but it was only available on the M5...

dino001

I never understood all that "resale" argument. I buy cars for myself (my enjoyment), not for the next guy. If it's harder to sell or sells for less than it simply means my comfort is more expensive - as long as I can afford it and there is nothing else that would be more compelling, it's fine with me.

Pretty much the same with home. I treat it as place to live, a consumer good that happens to retain value (not recently, but as a rule) better than a car, but essentially it's a consumer good, not investment to me. I find my life easier and more enjoyable that way - less worrying what others do or think, less worrying about all that property value.

cdnpinhead

Very nicely put.

I agree, BTW, which is why I've owned blue & otherwise "saleproof" cars in the past. Besides which I've been known to modify my houses over the years with "features" that very few probably think are worthwhile.

golic

Dino-

I agree with you to an extent. Yes, a car is not an investment. It is a depreciating asset. We should buy a car we enjoy and use it as long as we can.

But isell, brings up a very valid point. If the OP is going to buy this car and look to trade it in, in 2-3 years, then resale should be an important economic consideration, unless of course money is no object.

graphicguy

Richard....thanks. This is the first year that I can remember that it was easy to get around the show. I didn't any issues getting up close, personal, seat time in any of the show cars (even some that were on the turntables). The Chrysler 300 and PT Cruiser display looked pretty desolate. Especially considering they were displayed smack dab in the middle traffic area.

kyfdx....I can't believe I missed the Grand Marquis. I was in the LM booth a good 15 minutes as they were plucking people out of the crowd to give away a $50 Visa card to come look at Lincolns. Even after I told them I wasn't in the market, one of the presenters coerced me by saying...."don't you want a free $50 Visa card for no good reason?" She had me at "free". I do think I have to stop by a dealership to get some sort of code from them for the Visa, however.

Snake, I'm sure the Chicago show was bigger than the one in Cincy. They had all of the '10 Lincolns there. IIRC, they were all black, however. I don't remember seeing that "greenish/gold" color, or that "mini-Lincoln" there. But, the new models all seem to have that new waterfall grill and upgraded interiors.

Like kyfdx, I was really quite surprised that the BMW display didn't get more play from the attendees. Usually, there's a line for seat time in any of the display cars. Same for Mercedes. Must be a sign of the times.

I predict that Acura is going to do some sort of tweak/redesign of their current styling since their booth was uncharacteristically barren of lookers.

Was also surprised that NIssan's booth was pretty sullen. They've got two new models (Maxima and 370Z). The people I saw with the Maxima looked at the MSRP sticker and walked away (Nissan may have a pricing problem on their hands). More surprising was the 370Z was on a turntable. The presenters were inviting anyone who'd stop to step onto the turntable to have a seat in the Z. Most people passed it by (but, not me).

I did sign up for some sort of giveaway at the Hyundai booth. I already got a call from the local dealership asking me to come in to test drive the Genesis. Told him that I'm not in the market. He said it didn't matter. That if I came in for a presentation, they'd give me a free fill up for my troubles. Guess I'll take advantage of that, too.

dino001

Let me rephrase my argument - if I see two cars that are otherwise equal or almost equal, the resale will make a difference. But I would not get boring silver color, automatic transmission and sedan just because red manual wagons have lower resale value (assuming of course that they are still available).

driver100

I never understood all that "resale" argument. I buy cars for myself (my enjoyment), not for the next guy. Pretty much the same with home.

I agree, well put dino! I used to buy the most practical car, home,clothes, shoes, everything.

If my brother is buying a car, camera, phone, he'll do 100 hours of research and then pick out the cheapest one and think he has analyzed the situation well. Cheapest up front is not necessarily cheapest in the long run, and you missed out any enjoyment factor as well.

But, you have to factor in enjoyment, and that there's only so much time, and if you work hard you should have some reward and enjoyment from life. There is a place for being practical, like not living beyond your means, but it doesn't mean you have to get by with as little as possible.

Walking around St Armand Circle, one store had a sports jacket that was $2100 :sick:
I asked him what kind of car came with the jacket? Now that might be going overboard for most people.

kyfdx

Walking around St Armand Circle

Are you taking in any spring training games (Reds?).

driver100

Are you taking in any spring training games (Reds?).

On Wednesday....Blue Jays and Yankees.

Did see Lightning vs Leafs hockey a few weeks ago. Fun, but a snoozer.

imidazol97

>to give away a $50 Visa card to

>they'd give me a free fill up for my troubles.

If you work this right you have a second income stream there. Stop by Jungle Jim's on Saturday and you can eat free... You've got it made. Just keep hitting car shows.

dino001

I also research stuff "to death" very often - but I almost never buy the cheapest item. I usually end up with something in between, to represent best value for the money combined with appropriate amount of utility that I need.

Very complex mathematical formula... Takes days, sometimes weeks to run on Dino1.0 with newest operating system and recent memory downgrades (you know, those coming with aging ).

laurasdada

On the way to work this morning, saw a new Acura TL in white. With the big, aluminum beak painted to match the body color. And you know what? Still hideous... As a TL owner/fan, I hope they correct this Aztekian styling theme sooner than later.

lmp180psu

I agree with you. I saw an 09 TL last week in black with the chrome 'beak', and I am glad I have an 05 (got it 1.5 weeks ago)

boomchek

Give Acura a year or so and it'll go back to normal.

Look at how Subaru adopted a "face" on their Impreza and Tribeca and how it only lasted a couple years.

isellhondas

If you were in my business, you would definatly understand the " resale" argument.

People buy unpopulars cars that please them but four years later, they just can't understand why we don't really want their 2WD Pilot NAVI as a trade in.

Or maybe they are the person who just has to have a five speed manual in an Accord which makes the car nearly saleproof down the road.

You see, I have to deal with these people and I'm the one who has to explain why I can'[t get anyone to make a buy bid on their trade.

Same with houses. I do look to resale down the road and I'm not going to do an oddball addition that I know will turn off most buyers even if it does suit us.

Yes, a person should buy what pleases them as long as they know the pitfalls.

dino001

Sure - I'm just not one of them. I know I'm unique in my tastes, so I know I better keep car longer, or find an enthusiast to buy it, or a dealer who is so hungry for a deal that will overlook "saleproof" aspect. Plus, are we really that good in predicting the future? If so, why people kept buying those big SUVs and manufacturers kept making them just before the crash?

I understand your sentiment entirely. I just hope you can undestand mine - for your sake . What I mean - if we were to meet some day on some lot, your possible resale comments will be appreciated as long as your final words are "well, Mr. Dino, if that Sludgemobile OddBall XTV with manual transmission, Nav and no leather is what you want (and manufacturer actually offers it), we will do everything in our power to get one for you at reasonable price. If we can't we what is your next closest acceptable configuration? That thing you are trading - you do understand we can only give you $XX, which will be thosuand below any book?". I would probably say "yes", or "no, but let me make more research on that".

I think as long as you give people fair warning, there is no problem. Doesn't mean everybody will be happy with what they hear, but it's not your job to please everybody in the universe - just those you want to sell/buy cars to/from

driver100

Or maybe they are the person who just has to have a five speed manual in an Accord which makes the car nearly saleproof down the road.

I thought no matter what car you brought in to trade the dealer would tell you it was going to be hard to sell. When I bring in a V8 they say people only want 4s and 6s, when I bring them a 6 cyl they say people only want 4s and 8s. If I have a sedan they say they want trucks and SUVs. If I bring in a chev to a Chrysler dealer they say they could have got more for it if it was a Chrysler. I guess there's a big book they refer to, and can find an answer for anything.

I thought a 5 speed Honda would actually be somewhat popular. Shifting gears is a dying art but I thought Honda drivers were a little performance driven. What percentage of Hondas are sold with automatic? Boom, what percentage of Chryslers. Moo...if your in cyberspace...percentage of Porches?
I doubt my Fuss-yawn comes with a 6 speed :sick:

boomchek

Chryslers and Dodges: 99% are automatics.

We have a Ram 3500 Dually Diesel with a manual and it's sale proof. Once in a while we'll have a bare bones loss leader advertised special Ram or Dakota with a manual, but it's very rare.

The only Chrysler offered with a stick is the PT which I personally have not seen one in that configuration.

Jeeps are a different story as about 10-20% of our Wranglers are sold in manual.

I love manuals, but unless I am driving a sports car I don't care to be shifting in city traffic, or to have "better control/performance" of my 100hp eco-mobile that can achieve the same level of performance with an auto tranny.

lrguy44

It is amazing, but in 15 years I have never had a customer tell me we offered him too much for his car.

isellhondas

Not a problem. I give people fair warning and then I back off and I'll sell them whatever they want.

Same thing with used cars that I know are troubleprone. I'll tell them, " These are fun cars to drive but they tend to cause more trouble than other makes and they are more expensive to fix".

People buying these makes of cars are usually aware of this and they don't care.

Either that or they thank me for gently steering them away. My long time customers tend to trust me.

driver100

It is amazing, but in 15 years I have never had a customer tell me we offered him too much for his car.

Richard would have got $500 too much for his Explorer.

It is amazing, but in 15 years I have never had a customer tell me we offered him too much for his car.

I have never been offered too much for my trade in and I don't think any dealership gives you MORE than your trade in is worth, unless they miscalculate.

lrguy44

I don't think any dealership gives you MORE than your trade in is worth, unless they miscalculate

I have seen it (and have done it myself) many times. Some dealers will show more than they are putting into a trade (taking profit from the new car) to try and do a deal. In my case, if putting too much in the trade (actual cash value) is the lesser of 2 evils compared to keeping a distressed overaged unit, I have overallowed. It all depends on the deal.

oldfarmer50

"...The only Chrysler offered with a stick is the PT Cruiser which I personally have not seen one..."

There are plenty of PT Cruiser sticks on Craigslist. From the prices they are asking They must be in high demand. There are even a few PT sticks at local dealers, all with the mandatory 2K over KBB price tag.

These folks must believe what they say about anybody who lives in NY being crazy. :lemon:

driver100

Chryslers and Dodges: 99% are automatics.

That's interesting. My BMW delaership says about 40% are standard. But, fewer each year. So, if I wanted to play it safe I would go automatic for trade in value, but nah, rather have more fun shifting......