Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "So how much over your trade do they have it listed at?"

    I don't know. It wasn't on the web page. It just said to call them. I'll have to ask my salesman.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Moo, you're absolutely right. Work the "out the door" deal and then it doesn't really matter. Also, those junk charges on mortgages are worse than any car deal. After having owned 12 homes, I learned right quick to be on the alert for those. One of my favorites is the courier fee---$200 to deliver a package next door! :sick: I used to jump on them about that one.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    That video was priceless!!!

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    I think thats the best approach for used vehicles. New vehicles are a different story as a dealer should be able to find or order a car if they don't have it in their inventory

    I think we agree to agree. Internet best for used vehicles, probably not the best for everyone for new, unless you are really particular about seeking out the exact car you want online before going to the dealer.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I don't know. It wasn't on the web page. It just said to call them. I'll have to ask my salesman.

    Good plan. The salesman would never lie... ;)
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    I bought what I thought was a nice Caddy once and it turned out to be a lemon.

    I don't think we heard about the Caddie lemon before :lemon: . I am surprised you aren't about to try an Avalon or something. 2 D3 lemons and you are still willing to give them another chance.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    Secondly, one bad lemon doesn't make them all bad.

    I was just thinking, we all have traded in lemons before. Does any one feel guilty about trading in a car that they know was a lemon? I think we just say it's now the unscrupulous dealers problem :)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    I can give you a perfect example. I would like my next car to be a station wagon BMW 328 with manual transmission (YES, do you have a problem? ;) ) . It is practically non-existent in Southeast and I know that much. I know that accounting for options I want, and those I don't, color of my choice it is pretty much special order - and I'm OK with that. I might even take European Deliver, when time comes (you guys know already I'm actually from relative close by).

    However, I still would like totest drive something that is close (of course, when the time comes). The closest is of course a 328 sedan. Coupe or convertible are a little bit different and 335 would be way too different. Now, imagine how many phone calls I would have to make to actually find a 328 sedan with manual - believe, it's not so trivial in Florida, people here positively can't drive, so manual transmission is a dying breed.

    Moreover, I don't have a wish to have to explain to every salesman I encounter that YES, I WANT A STATION WAGON and YES, WITH MANUAL TRANSMISSION and listen to their speaches that I already know how hard it is to find, nobody wants them, I must be crazy, etc. Of course they have here a perfect 335 coupe with automatic, just for me, I would be better off buying what is on their lot.

    Now, with a quick search function, just like in many other brands, I could simply put my criteria into the computer and find out they have my exact car 1500 miles away, but one that I could usefully test drive is in dealership A across town (or in Orlando, whatever).

    For that very reason, I would appreciate very much if BMW of America had a comprehensive inventory search - or at least my local dealers allowed me to look at their new inventory, so I don't waste my time to ask for something they don't have, or even won't have for another five months.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I'm talkin in general snake.

    If you ask for something, it will come with solicitations, whether you like it or not. It's just anture of the business.

    If I go to Mexico and venture outside of a resort, I kinow for a fact I'll be hassled by beggars, peddlers, and other people trying to sell me stuff. There's no other way around that. Period.

    If I send an inquiry for info about a vehicle, I know for a fact that a salesperson will be contacting me and will try to get me in and sell me something. There's no other way around that either. Period.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "Good plan. The salesman would never lie..."

    Actually, he wouldn't lie. He's one of the honest guys. That's why I chose him. He has that Edmunds demeanor. :D

    Richard
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Oh, I know you are happy with this guy and the guys here are a pretty good bunch.

    Just having fun. Too bad I hadn't found this emoticon before that last post - image
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "...and you are still willing to give them another chance."

    I'm the forgiving type. Anyone can make a mistake once. :P Besides, how can you not love this car? You've been in the BMW world for so long that you're missing a good thing. ;)

    You would love the Caddy lemon story from the year 2000. It is the chief of all lemons ever born and raised in this country. :D Just encourage me a little bit more.

    Richard
  • golicgolic Member Posts: 714
    Does any one feel guilty about trading in a car that they know was a lemon?

    -- I never feel guilty about capitalism. Plus, I am not so naive to think that no matter how great of a deal I think I may have just scored, I realize that the dealer would not have done the deal without a profit motive attached on his end. Whether it was the sales price, trade-in, volume incentive, mfg credit or rebate, I am sure he made money on the transaction.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I could understand the second chance since there's not much out there that directly competes with the Sebring. At least mine was a very good combination of things - a decent car with the top up and loads of fun with it down. Sure I can think of other cars I'd rather have but it's a good combination for the price.

    I can't even think of how far back you'd have to go with a Solara to put it in the same price range and we don't want to go back to Richard's Solara experience....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "Does any one feel guilty about trading in a car that they know was a lemon?"

    Here is why I didn't feel guilty. I traded at the very dealership that had done all of the warranty work on the lemon. My salesman, the owner, and the service manager all knew of my troubles. They still offered me top dollar. The owner seemed really sorry that I had had so many problems. If the new one turns out to be a lemon, I'm reverting back to my childhood days. I'll just buy another PF Flyer and be done with the whole business. :D

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I didn't realize that you had owned one. You understand my position totally. You're right. We don't want to go back to the Solara!

    Richard
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    If you want complaints about junk charges, direct your attention to your mortgage broker.

    My favorite one, happenned to a co-worker, "Escrow waiver fee". She was going to pay the taxes and insurance herself.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "...I am sure he made money on the transaction."

    Your entire post was right on the money! I felt as if I got a great deal, but he still owns the dealership. ;)

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "Escrow waiver fee"

    Now that WAS a cheap shot! :sick:

    Richard
  • golicgolic Member Posts: 714
    "Escrow waiver fee"

    -- This would be akin to a dealer charging you a fee for not getting you financing. I better not say that too loud before one of the sale people thinks HEY!!! thats a good idea!
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yeah, I had a 98 that I bought used in 1999 or 2000. I got a couple of summers out if it. It was fine but we got too numerous for it.

    I did without in the convertible department for a while and now have that 99 Celica which is a nice combination of convertible and cheap car.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Hmmmm.... if you have the cash to pay fore the car, then I'm sure you have an extra $699 for the InstaPay Cash Processing Surcharge.

    You know, the one the banks charge us when we deposit an entire purchase price amount amount instead of financing the car. :P

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    We paid cash for our last house about 3 years ago (glad I did because I would have surely lost the cash in the stock market). Total closing costs...$75 bucks !! I think it was a title fee or something like that. PRICELESS !! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    That's awesome!

    How much did singlewides run back then?

    :P
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    I can give you a perfect example. I would like my next car to be a station wagon BMW 328 with manual transmission (YES, do you have a problem?

    I understand what you are looking for and your problem. I bought a bmw 328 Cabriolet with manual trans. I went to the dealer and test drove a Cabriolet to see what it felt like. Then I tried a sedan to see how the manual felt. Then I looked at dealers in a 40 mile radius to try and find out what Atlantic Blue Metalic looked like so I could make sure I would like the color..Had to rent and sit thru a James Bond movie to get a glimpse. I don't think the internet would have helped, even if they had the exact car in stock chances are it would be on a lot in a field and they aren't going to prepare it for a test drive any way. If the car was at another dealer they would find it. If it was on a boat on the way they would have reserved it. The dealer gets a quota of 5 of these a month, so I had to order and it took 2 months.

    I doubt if the internet would help. The chances of a dealer having the right car and it being a demonstrator are not good. When I bought my 2003 X3 I tried a 330 but bought a 228 or whatever, it didn't matter, I knew there would be a difference. I really don't think you have to test the exact car you think you want to buy. You might even try the 335 and decide it is better....because it is worth the extra money......my wife got the 335 because it had the garage opener on the mirror! ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    $545,000. Including the doc fees. :P

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    You would love the Caddy lemon story from the year 2000.

    I really would love to hear that story Richard. How much to tell the story? I'll chip in 20 bucks, maybe there are 10 others that want to hear the story. I think it is going to be good.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    . You're right. We don't want to go back to the Solara!

    A Solara with problems too! Richard, what are you doing to these poor cars! :confuse:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Oh, you got one of those BIIIIIG trailers. Nice. :surprise:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Hey, we can all be big shots here in cyberspace. Biggest double wide in the county.:)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Well today it finally warmed up enough that I was able to convince she who must be obeyed that we could have the top down when we drove. It is nice to do that however I wondered how many people thought we were nuts (but we did see another ragtop with its top down).

    image

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • vtdogvtdog Member Posts: 163
    Long term lurker here. Never posted as I am not in the "business" and feel that it was not my place to comment. I will say though, I have learned alot about car sales here.

    My question to the "pros" here concerns the fact that I am in a position to possibly trade two cars and purchase one. I understand that by trading I put on the "baby seal suit" and normally sell older cars privately, but the last time I sold it was via craigs list and turned into a real pain in the rear due to the level of mutts coming to my house and lies told to me by prospective buyers.

    In any event, do you have any experience with a double trade? Are my chances of getting a reasonable trade amount depressed by this type of transaction. The new vehicle I am looking at has msrp about 28k and each of the trades are worth approx. 12k from kbb/edmunds. I don't know if the trade total of 24 is too "high" a ratio on the new car, or if that is even something you guys consider.

    Thanks
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Snake, is that your ride? Nice neighborhood.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Thanks Tidester. I am usually pretty good with TLA's, but PFO had me stumped.

    'Preference For Others'? You learn something new everyday.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Nice ride, and I see your neighbour drives an Avenger. Chrysler neighbourhood?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,730
    Nice car.

    Nice new neighborhood with small trees and few birds, I hope. With my luck if I leave windows down a bird manages to strike. My cars were outside the garage today for part and got 3 spots on the windshields (windows were up).

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    VT Dog, 2 trades is not a problem at all. Once in a while we get two trades, it's not that much extra work.

    As for the ratio to car price being too high, there's no such thing thatr you should worry about. You can do a trade and pay $4k difference, you can even do straight trades. I've had a deal where a customer traded in a MB SL55 AMG on a new Odyssey, and we took his car in, gave him the Odyssey, AND cut him a cheque for about $50k.

    Now how should you proceed?

    Let's say the price of the car you want to buy is $28k, and you think your trades are worth about $12k each. This means your difference is $4k.

    Go in, drive the car you want to buy, tell them that you have two trades. If you like the car, make the offer that you want to pay $4k difference, and see what they say. If there's rebates or discounts on the car you want and you think you can knock down a couple grand, then offer $2k.

    But you have to be realistic on your trade values. And I recommend negotiating on the OTD difference. That's what you end up paying, and it makes things easier rather than shuffling numbers back and forth on each trade or purchase price.

    Out of curiosity, what are you buying, and what are you trading?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    No, No! It wasn't a lemon. The Solara story was before your time here, and it was what brought me to this thread. I can never tell that story on here again. The guys would run me off Edmunds. It was told too much. To read the story, you would need to go back to posts from September of 2007.

    How about the Caddy story instead? To celebrate the arrival of the new century, I decided to buy a new Caddy DeVille. It was a beautiful car---pewter chiffon with vanilla cream interior and walnut wood trim accents. At some point during the first month, I'm driving some clients out to lunch when I hear a terrible noise from the rear. I pulled off of I-95 at the nearest exit, jumped out of the car, and ran to the rear. What a shock! The rear bumper had fallen off the car! I managed to walk back and retrieve it while trying to avoid being hit by passing cars who were trying to dodge it in the road. Who knows what my two clients thought?!

    About a month later, my wife called me in tears. She had gone to the mall shopping and something fell out from under the car and the rear tire ran over it. I jumped in the Miata and raced to the mall. It turns out that the catalytic converter had dislodged and fallen on the street. The right rear tire caught it as it flew by and damaged the tire rim.

    Some months later, we went to dinner at the club on a Saturday night. Driving home, I noticed that there didn't seem to be any lights on the right side of the car. Upon inspection, I was horrified to discover that the encasement and bulb were missing. I retraced my steps the next morning, but I never found it.

    You do understand that by this point I have sent letters to the regional office and to the Michigan headquarters. My local dealer has heard more than one rant from me. He dreads to see me coming. BTW, this is NOT the end of the lemon.

    We now go to June of the following year. I know it was June because we were going out the door to attend my father-in-law's 80th birthday luncheon. We get in the car, start the ignition, put it in reverse, and the steering wheel won't turn. I tried using the brake to turn it, quickly jerking the steering wheel, cutting it off and trying again, etc. We just got in the Miata and drove on to Raleigh. I remember how pissed my wife was because she was wearing a big hat that matched her dress, and she couldn't wear the hat in the Miata. She did rant and rave for 125 miles. As pissed as I was, we must have looked like some couple when we walked into the hotel lobby.

    A few months later, we discovered that the right rear passenger door would not open. It was repaired three times but never worked properly after the repairs.

    Then came the final straw. My wife had driven the car to her monthly bridge club at a home about 12 miles outside of town. She was returning home when suddenly all of the lights on the car went out. In trying to pull off of the rural roadway in the dark, she slid into a ditch. You just don't want to know the telephone conversation that I had with her. It wasn't fit for man nor beast. She was in a ditch on a lonely rural road late at night and scared to death. It was also one of the coldest January nights that we have had here in the South in years. I raced to get her, called AAA, and they towed the car to our dealer. I promised her that she would never have to see that car again. She didn't. They fixed the computer problem with the lights the next day.

    The following day, I drove it to the Ford place and traded for my beloved Explorer that I have now. I expected to get nothing for the Caddy on the trade. As luck would have it, one of the salesmen wanted it for his wife to drive her real estate clients around town. He got so excited about it, that he offered me more than he should. I was thrilled beyond words. My wife was so happy. Like me, she loves the Explorer. BTW, I never had any positive results from my telephone calls or letters to GM. The dealer just kept trying to repair each thing that went wrong. That lemon was truly the nightmare from hell. THE END

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    That lemon was truly the nightmare from hell.

    But what a great story. Richard, just let me know when you are going to trade in your cars.....I don't want to be the one to go in and buy it.

    That Cadillac sounds like a Tuesday after a long weekend car. It is a miracle GM stayed in business this long after that.

    I will go back to Sept 07 to find out what happened to the Solara, but I am sure there are others who would like to know as well, even just a short version would be greatly appreciated.

    That was a great story though.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Snake, I love your car. The white is really pretty. I think that we both got good deals and made the right choices. Don't worry about other people thinking that you are nuts with the top down. They just wish that it was them. ;)

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    If it helps, go back to 9/07/07. That was my first day here. I believe that is the day that I spilled my guts about the Solara.

    Richard
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    it really is simple math.

    Assume you own a dealership and you sell 300 units each month @ $2000/copy without a doc fee.

    300 x $2000= $600,000

    Assume you own a dealership and you sell 250 units each month @ $2000/copy with a doc fee of $500

    250 x $2000 = $500,000
    250 x $500 = $125,000

    Would you have a problem with making more money, having less floorplan and overhead and making more money?


    So if I use your logic, then why not sell every vehicle with a million dollar "dealer fee", simple math right? All I need to do is sell one vehicle to be ahead. Your logic makes no sense.

    Fees are just a way to obtain extra revenue, and in my opinion are insulting. To negotiate a purchase price, then get hit with the $699 "dealer fee" in the closing office is a slap in the face and I have walked out of more than one deal when that happenned to me.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Understandably dealers don't provide their new car inventory, but car manufacturers are doing it for them. Mazda started doing this in 2003.
    One can browse the new car inventory of each Mazda dealer online. That is how I located the exact car I wanted 98 miles away.

    http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/vlStart.action?bhcp=1
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    So if I use your logic, then why not sell every vehicle with a million dollar "dealer fee", simple math right? All I need to do is sell one vehicle to be ahead. Your logic makes no sense.

    Oh don't be silly. Why not make it a trillion-jillion dollars... because the customer would balk. It has to be almost-reasonable. It has to be an amount that a customer, who is already emotionally invested in the car, will swallow to get the deal done now.

    Sales is psychology! :) :sick:
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Understandably dealers don't provide their new car inventory

    #1 How is it understandably?

    #2 I checked a few dealerships (including the one that I think is the best name for a car dealership) and they all had new car inventories online. FWIW there is a website that lists all new and used cars in most, if not all, Chicago area dealerships.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    negotiate a purchase price, then get hit with the $699 "dealer fee"

    What would be the reaction if the customer hit back with a "customer fee" for the same amount? After all, the customer has had to invest time, effort and possibly some cash (time off from work?) to reach the point of sale.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    After all, the customer has had to invest time, effort and possibly some cash (time off from work?) to reach the point of sale.

    Good point Tidester...once again not just a handsome face.

    How about a $300 fee for filling out all those forms. For your time as the salesman tries to figure out his computer programs. Maybe a gas fee for going home and coming back again. How about 50 bucks for filling out a satisfaction survey! How about 50 bucks for having to fend off the mop n glo lady, or the extra insurance?

    How about a $100 nuisance charge for not telling me my car had run flat tires and since they cost about $500 each it would be wise to get insurance for $500 - after I have bought the car.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,639
    If it helps, go back to 9/07/07.

    Richard, before the day is over I am going to do that. I can hardly wait!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,730
    Are you sure the car was new when you bought it? Had it fallen off the delivery truck and been repaired and resold to you, an unlucky victim. No one person could have that many things go wrong so badly.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,497
    A BMW dealer is trying to pull this on a poor soul over on one of the 3 Series board:

    Appearance fee=$189(What's this about? For the saleperson showing up?
    Electronic fee=$25 for communicating on the internet(Yeah, that sure pumps up your overhead...)

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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