Stories from the Sales Frontlines

lrguy44

I'm pretty sure my son's 7 year old 4 banger, Elantra 5 speed will outgun any of those normal breathing Stealths/Mitsus.

Maybe the normal breathing but I used to work at a Porsche,Audi,VW, Mitsu store (the folks that brought you WWII) and we had a lot of fun with the 300 GT VR4. 0-60 in 5.4 seconds. If interested, here are the specs

3000 GT VR4

verdugo

(the folks that brought you WWII)

LOL

oldfarmer50

...There must only be 5 cars or so on the market now that do 0-60 over 10 seconds..."

Try a Yaris.

tifighter

And a Yaris probably feels like a rocket compared to a smart...

isellhondas

We took in a Smart last year with 150 miles on it. The guy's mother bought it for him as a surprise. He just hated it.

We paid too much for it and ended up takling a bath on it three months later at the auction. It did nothing but attract the curious and joyriders.

I took it up the street once and a Vespa could have beat it. What a joke of a car that was one step better than walking.

jipster

We paid too much for it and ended up takling a bath on it three months later at the auction. It did nothing but attract the curious and joyriders.

What price did you start out on on the Smart? How far down was it marked? And what price did you end up getting for it at auction?

Typically when a local dealership advertises auction prices to get rid of inventory, they are usually only marginally better than retail.

snakeweasel

There was an Acura dealer not far from where I worked that had one (possibly took it in on a trade but not sure on the particulars). It was on their lot for less than two weeks, IIRC from the drivechicago.com website they were asking a pretty penny for it.

I have had the chance to drive one (not the one mentioned above) and while it won't win drag races it will easily keep up with traffic coming off a stoplight. I think that a Vespa beating it is an exaggeration.

driver100

We paid too much for it and ended up takling a bath on it three months later at the auction

You should have held on to it. When oil hits $100 a barrel, you will get a lot for it.

I know 2 people wh have them (they are envionmentalsit types) and they like them, for use in the city. One of them drove 100 miles in bad conditions on the highway, and he said that was scary. But, there seems to be a nich market (I know, of tree huggers probably), so I wouldn't write them off completely.

driver100

A friend was telling me about his 2006 M Class Mercedes SUV he bought used. It had one problem after the other.

The oil light wouldn't go off so they put it on the hoist.

The bolts on the hoist sheared off and the car dropped right down on it's nose.

Car was a right off.

Insurance only paid book value, so they lost $4000 on the car.

Dealer sold them another used one, and didn't sell it at any extra discount.

They like the newer used one, but might go BMW next time...not too happy about that. :sick: .

graphicguy

While I've never driven a Smart Car, I have sat in one. I didn't even like doing that. I see them on occasion tooling around my 'burg. But, I can count those times on one hand and still have fingers left over. Every once in awhile I see an ad in the local newspaper selling new ones. Apparently, they aren't doing well in these parts as they were offering some pretty steep discounts on them.

Truth told, I'd probably look at Civics, Corollas, etc before looking at a Smart. I actually think those are cheaper to buy than a Smart would be.

Just looking at some of the specs of that Mitusu 3000 turbo......they stickered for ~$45K (the lesser ones were in the mid $20s-low $30s and looked to be much more pedestrian with their performance parameters).

0-60 in 5.4 secs in the turbo model.

Just to give a little measuring stick in how far we've come in the 10+ years since the 3000 turbo was sold new.....here's a few cars that would hammer it on the street...

-Mustang GT or Camaro SS=~$30K
-Infiniti G=~$35K (discounted)
-Taurus SHO=~$40K
-Nissan 370Z=~$35K
-Dodge Challenger SRT=~$35K
-BMW 335i (stripped)=~$40K

There's probably others. Still, cheaper, faster, more reliable, less money alternatives exist 10+ years later.

Open up the competition for "tbaxxon's" ragged out sled, and the number of models which would outperform it grows, and the price differential gets larger. For the $3K large he allegedly paid for it, adding the $4k he said he had to put into it, there's a ton of cars I'd buy before sinking $7K into a well used Dodge Stealth.

isellhondas

I don't recall the details but at the time gas prices were high and Smarts were selling well. We paid too much and lost money when we took it to the auction.

For the life of me, I can't imagine why anybody would buy one of these. I would much rather walk then drive one of these death traps.

oldfarmer50

"...We took in a Smart last year..."

We have a Smart dealership in my area and I've seen a few on the road. They seem to attract those who like to feel enviromentally superior. I saw one at the auto show with a sticker over $14K. I don't know how you could justify spending that kind of money for 40mpg when a Yaris was only $15K, gets 35mpg and has a back seat. Even a Prius has a back seat.

They seem to pretty well built. Go to YouTube and type in "Smart Car Crash Test".

nyccarguy

they actually had a smart center of white plains that closed up shop not too long after it opened. The smart showroom actually became the MINI dealership.

bronsonb

"They seem to attract those who like to feel environmentally superior.' Reminds me of SouthPark episode that poked fun a Prius and Insight owners (renamed 'Pious" and "HindSight" for the show). The episode focused on a huge cloud of "Smug" generated by so many people buying hybrids and feeling superior.

It was funny but didn't totally dis hybrids...just the smugness people have from driving them.

isellhondas

I don't know how they can possible do well in crash tests?

I saw an email where one got smashed between two semis. It was about two feet long after that.

I've also heard that they are just horrible in the snow.

Can you imagine being on the freeway with a big truck on both sides of you?

Like I said, I would rather walk.

houdini1

Amen brother !!

Kirstie_H

I almost ran over & crushed one with my bike today.

Seriously, I don't care what the stats are and how many crash-test videos say it's great. I would not feel safe in it on the highway, though if I lived in a huge city, it might be worth considering, as long as I had another option.

jipster

I don't know how they can possible do well in crash tests?

I think during car crash tests they have to crash the tested vehicles into objects of similar size and weight. So the Smart car was probably crashed into, say a emptied cardboard box the size of a dishwasher. I wouldn't get inside one of one of those puny cars for all the loot stuffed in jmonroe's and oldfarmers mattresses combined. :mad:

verdugo

while it won't win drag races it will easily keep up with traffic coming off a stoplight. I think that a Vespa beating it is an exaggeration.

Saw about 6 of them in highway 80 heading into San Francisco. They were part of a SMART roadshow (trailer was following them). They were easily keeping up with highway traffic at 75-ish.

verdugo

It was funny but didn't totally dis hybrids...just the smugness people have from driving them.

One of their funniest episodes.

To keep it on topic, there were a lot of car sales in that episode. The entire town sold their SUV's and bought hybrids. At the end of the episode, everybody sold their hybrids and bought SUV's again. :P

houdini1

Are you saying that you don't care that much about the "smugness" factor ?

cdnpinhead

. . .those who like to feel enviromentally superior.

Nice turn of phrase.

I've referenced the South Park episode from time to time that deals with the smug feeling that those who drive hybrids exude. If you haven't seen it, you should. I think you'd enjoy it.

This is much of why I refer to the Prius as the Pious.

YMMV.

deltheking

Exactly what is wrong with American car buyers..Gas price spikes up-they panic,trade in for smaller cars...Gas price falls --back to the old gas hogging ways of the SUV !! :shades:

boomchek

It's so true but it applies to Canadians as well.

During the gas hike people wanted to get out of their gas guzzlers at any cost, even if it meant losing thousands in depreciation after just 6 months or a year of ownership, and tacking on that negative equity onto a new loan.

And now that gas prices have somewhat dropped, everyone wants a SUV or a truck even if they have no use for one. :surprise:

snakeweasel

I saw an email where one got smashed between two semis. It was about two feet long after that.

Tell me outside a tank,an armored car ,an aircraft carrier or another semi what wouldn't be two feet long after getting crushed between two semis?

verdugo

But at least they keep our friendly salespeople in business. :shades:

verdugo

Tell me outside a tank,an armored car ,an aircraft carrier or another semi what wouldn't be two feet long after getting crushed between two semis?

A limo? It would be four feet long.

200_up_toooo

What got me back posting was a customer coming in with a TMV trade-In number that was, I dunno, $3,500 over reality....

Geez guys... TMV is getting way off base.... an 07 Prius, no matter how nice and how loaded just isn't worth $18500... heck, I was offered an 09 Prius 5 with leather and Navi and 6k miles in Black for that much!

+1

But that's why working in Used is much more fun than working in New at Toyota.

New Cars:
"Sir, ummm my manager said that ummmm.... he has to make some calls but um.... your trade might not be worth that."

vs.

Used Cars:
"Sir, do you know what our dealership and Edmunds.com have in common?.... Neither one of us buy cars for the price listed on their site." :surprise:

Why did they have to spoil the fun with these Certified-surveys that are about to hit? lol

driver100

Interesting to see the prices on used Smart Cars....and notice the mileage. Seems a lot get traded in with low mileage:

Used Smart ForTwo
White, Stock# 10399
Dealer: Auto Gallery 888-452-2952 $7,998
49 mi
Corona, CA

Email Dealer
Order a CARFAX Report
Click for Dealer Specials
9 pics
N/A
Used Smart ForTwo
Coupe, Silver, 3 CYL, AUTO, 2 door, Stock# 284994
Dealer: Yes Autos 877-461-6436 $8,900
1,999 mi
Elmhurst, NY

2008
Used Smart ForTwo Pure
Coupe, Silver, 1.0L I3, AUTO 5SPD, 2 door, Stock# Z249967A
Dealer: Toyota of Tampa Bay on Fletcher 866-916-0307 $9,864
4,190 mi
Tampa, FL

Email Dealer
Free CARFAX Report
Click for Dealer Specials
18 pics
2008
Used Smart ForTwo Passion
Convertible, Blue, 3 CYL, AUTO, 2 door, Stock# ZU7205
Dealer: Witt Lincoln Mercury 877-760-8031 $9,900
0
San Diego, CA

yahoo used Smart cars

roadburner

Maybe the normal breathing but I used to work at a Porsche,Audi,VW, Mitsu store (the folks that brought you WWII) and we had a lot of fun with the 3000 GT VR4. 0-60 in 5.4 seconds.

Last summer I was cruising the MS3 down I65 with my wife and son when a 3000 GT pulled alongside, floored it, and then backed off. He repeated this several times. I was trying to ignore him but my son piped up, "You can take him Dad, he's not that fast."
If my wife hadn't been riding with us we would have found out... :P

stickguy

I saw a couple on the NY thruway. Really do look silly.

But, they are at least tall.

Funn on the highway was my miata, especially with the top down. Eyeball level with the lug nuts on a semi.

graphicguy

From the reviews I've read regarding the SMART car, sounds like the driving experience could best described as.....ummmm.....dismal. Don't they drink premium gas, too? Kind of defeats the purpose of the car.

I know it's in vogue on the left and right coasts to drive a hybrid, but everywhere I travel in-between doesn't seem that enamored with them. You can get a hybrid at a discount at most dealerships around here (except for the Fusion Hybrid, which seems to be selling well). Buyers want what they want.

Hybrids don't have the sort of smugness here as they do elsewhere.

Just saw a blurb in Forbes regarding oil prices. To sum up, Forbes essentially says that demand can't support these prices, even the lower prices a bbl sells for currently. They predict a fall back to $40/bbl in 2010 because demand will remain tepid in the foreseeable future, as world economies continue to contract. Kind of makes me wonder how the oil traders (and buyers) justify buying futures at twice that amount. Somebody, somewhere is going to take another bath on oil futures as the gov't closes more trading loopholes.

oldfarmer50

"...Reminds me of SouthPark episode..."

I loved that episode.

oldfarmer50

"...how they can possible do well in crash tests?..."

I guess it's because the passenger compartment is shaped like an egg.

As to the rest, I agree, I'd rather walk also.

oldfarmer50

"...for all the loot stuffed in jmonroe's and oldfarmers mattresses..."

Hey, mine's in coffee cans out in the yard. :mad:

oldfarmer50

"...Somebody, somewhere is going to take another bath on oil futures..."

You've got that right. It will probably be some mom & pop from Ohio who get in at the top. The fat cats will then bail and take the loot with them.

isellhondas

Tht's the main reason I got rid of our Miata. I had a couple of near misses and one night a motorhome changed lanes on top of me and that was enough.

graphicguy

farmer....interesting you made mention of a "mom & pop from OH" getting burned.

Had dinner with some family friends last night (actually, my late parents' friends). I was relaying the Forbes article to them.

Both of them are retired professors. What you stated is exactly what happened to them last year. They had a (I stress the word "HAD") a broker who got them into oil futures at the top of the market last year, telling them $200 bbl oil was imminent. They took his advice and lost a substantial amount of money because of the broker's recommendation.

They said they wouldn't make the same mistake twice.

Old adages still apply, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

tallman1

Funn on the highway was my miata, especially with the top down. Eyeball level with the lug nuts on a semi.


I drove a friend's Miata on the freeway once with the top down. The top of my head was above the windshield so my hair was blown straight back when we reached our destination.

I also rode in it once with the soft top up. That was simply awful.

Fun car to drive although it did have an automatic.

sterlingdog

You and I had the same experience. I loved my emerald green Miata with the camel colored top. The problem was trying to stay alive. A transfer truck decided to change lanes. I was so small that he didn't see me. I ended up in the ditch because I had no where else to go. That was when I decided that my convertibles had to be as big as possible. That's one thing about my Sebring Touring. It's the size of a normal car. I feel much safer. As for the Smart Car, never in my life time!

Richard

houdini1

Can you get one of the smart cars with a lawn mower attachment?

In addition to all their other faults those things get terrible gas mileage for the size of the engine.

snakeweasel

Hey Richard, did I tell you about the guy at the gas station last summer with the Miata trash talking my Sebring? My only reply to him was that I couldn't have a Miata as I have more than one friend.

Not long after I got the Sebring I met up with a friend of mine and another friend of his. The meeting is when he found out I bought the rag top. Just a few weeks before the friend of his that was with him had bought that Pontiac two seater rag top. My friend upon seeing my car told his friend "thats what a convertible should look like, not like the matchbox car you got."

As for the miata, my sister got one not long after they came out. I had the chance to drive it, it was ok but way to small for me.

roadburner

The problem was trying to stay alive. A transfer truck decided to change lanes. I was so small that he didn't see me.

Try riding a motorcycle; you quickly learn that you don't want to position yourself anywhere a driver can't see you- and even then you should assume that you are invisible.

That was when I decided that my convertibles had to be as big as possible.

I'm the exact opposite. My first car was a 1974 Monte Carlo and almost every car I've owned since has been smaller and/or lighter than the one that preceded it. I simply don't like driving cars that weigh much over 3,000 pounds and that are longer than @180". In fact, three of my cars are less than 165" long. The only big sleds I could ever see myself owning are an E39 M5 or an E65 Alpina B7.

isellhondas

Same reason I don't ride motorcycles anymore.

It's no fun riding nervously thinking every car is out to hit you and that is what happened to me. I knew it was a matter of time.

roadburner

It's no fun riding nervously thinking every car is out to hit you and that is what happened to me. I knew it was a matter of time.

When I ride I actually do assume I'm invisible, and I further assume that anyone who can see me will try to kill me. In my opinion, taking the MSF Basic Riders Course is mandatory. Another thing that has helped me is that I've read and re-read David Hough's Proficient Motorcycling and incorporated the author's riding philosophy and tips into my riding style. Observing and anticipating threats goes a long way toward making motorcycling a relatively safe pursuit.

lrguy44

I agree totally. Although I must admit I do ride the bike much more defensively than I drive the SUV. Isell, just remember the words of Jimmy Buffett. They go something like "live unill you die, don't die so you can live". There is nothing like a long mountain ride on the Harley.

roadburner

Although I must admit I do ride the bike much more defensively than I drive the SUV.

Me too, although I think that the skills you learn as a rider can carry over to your driving skills. For example, I now instinctively watch the front wheels of cars stopped on cross streets in order to gauge if they've started to pull out.
By the way, If I wanted a Discovery II to use as a winter car/part-time family hauler are their any years I should particularly avoid?
And yes Isell, I know that you'll say "All of them."

isellhondas

You know it!

They are cool cars, no doubt about that and I'm sure some years are less troublesome than others.

If you REALLY want trouble, buy a Freelander the wannabee Land Rover.

roadburner

If you REALLY want trouble, buy a Freelander the wannabee Land Rover.

You know it's bad when some Land Rover dealers won't take a Freelander in trade.

lrguy44

I would only look at 03/04 Discos. They have the 4.6L and were actually very reliable compared to earlier years. Also. 356 changes from the 02 (mostly rideability). If you can still find one Certified (I get them rarely now) you will be money ahead.
In addition to wheels, eye contact has become a natural part of my driving. Also, many traffic lights here are programmed to change when a car is detected so I look at crossroads more to anticipate light changes and turning vehicles. Nothing worse than a panic stop on a hog.