17113? Holy smokes! We really have filled up this topic in the past few years!!
q - I knew this would follow me into this topic... Was that Volvo all the way out on Long Island? I did finally look and that was the nearest place I found with a C70 with a stick.
I'm waiting to hear brentwood's comment on the Saab. Hoping he isn't waiting another two years! :surprise:
It's only theoretical. While I'd entertain an attractive convertible if one were to pop up it would have to be cheap and reliable. I'd like it a little easier to get into than the Celica. If i don't happen upon anything the Celica is fine. Only 143K on it.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Oh, there's asking for trouble - a Volvo and it's in Passaic....
There actually used to be a Volvo dealer in Passaic. City motors used to be a Pontiac - Volvo - Honda dealer. They are now Garden State Honda. My first Ody was from there though I bought it at their other location - Route 23 Honda in Pompton Plains.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Lol, that's a good one. A few weeks ago I had a sub prime customer wanting a 2 year old diesel Ram for less than $200 a month with $0 down and a short finance term.
We couldn't even get her approved on anything at any rate, let alone a $30k+ truck.
Now that was painful. :sick: Can you believe that was over 31,000 posts back?! Good gosh! We have covered some territory in two years and four months. On topic discussions were probably 3% of that total. :P
The early C70 Ragtops are excrement boxes. They leak, they break, they cost a lot to fix, then they break again, then they leak again, then the customers got aggravated and threw temper tantrums because their $40K+ cars were permabroken, then Volvo hides their heads in the sand, then we get stuck with the grief...etc.
I will say this... it is a 5-speed (So it's gotta be a HPT) and it does have the Surround sound with that funky in-Dash CD changer that they used to use.
It just has those nasty 16" wheels.. they looks SO much nicer with those split 5-spoke wheels.
It is Black over Sand... still........ Galves is $4,175 on it
The car that I think you're mentioning is nice.. got an ASC light on, tires just pass inspection, and a quarter has been painted. Overall nice car tho.
To fezo and houdini: When I was first came here with my problem, I was very reactionary. My frustration and anger did bring out the idiot in me.
Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again." and I really don't want to go back and read them. It was bad enough the first time.
I went back and re-read that thread richard. There really isn't much of anything negative in that thread, a rude comment or two from isell... mac thinking you were a troll because you didn't respond early enough. You handled yourself very well, the mild frustration you displayed in one post justified in my opinion... certainly not "testy". Even in the beginning most of the salesmen, and all the non-biz guys, were supportive, informative and helpful. The personal experience of buying that car, you may not want to "come home to". But the thread itself is something to be proud of... as the outcome can attest to. A true story from the sales frontline that would be both informative and beneficial to those Edmunds readers who came in later. :shades:
Cdn, My post was not intended to get any responses. It was a tongue in the cheek remark just for some humor and to inject some life into the thread which at that time was very slow ! No offense intended - to be taken in the right spirit :P
And by the way, I have a very happy service story coming up regarding which I had promised that I would report the follow up. :shades:
I just got back from Florida and I was just dying to find a salesman like that...just for laughs. I wanted to go shopping for a convertible for my son but the spoiled sport I'm married to put the kybash on that idea. I was just drooling over the dozens of car lots down there. And there is no rust!
Instead I had to content myself by buzzing around in a rented Toyota Yaris. If this is the future of cars I may take the bus. Don't get me wrong, for what it does it's not a bad car. Rides OK, handles OK, has some pep (up to about 40) and has great gas milage but it makes my PT Crusier feel like a luxury car. I'd feel like a hound dog that just got "fixed" if I had to drive a Yaris full time. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Worth a grand, maybe $1,500 if the car is really super clean. It's a shame really, you guys may remember that I had leased a couple T6s... nice cars, incredibly comfortable seats, roomy, good stereo.
As reliable as a Paper-Mache Alfa Romeo.
My '04 T6 sucked up 2 trannies and an engine. In 34k miles. The best part about that pile of rotten swedish meatballs was the "OnCall Plus" which included a TDMA Phone that had to be activated by AT&T wireless. By the time I got the '04 in May of '03 AT&T Wireless WOULD NO LONGER ACTIVATE NEW TDMA PHONES!
>I'd feel like a hound dog that just got "fixed" if I had to drive a Yaris full time That's my quote of the day award winner!!!
Wow, that was good, very good. I think I understand the concept really well. I feel the same way driving a Yaris, but I just couldn't express it that well.
verdugo....that was one of my "faves" over the years....the car buying expert, who came in here, admonished all of us for our stupidity. And then telling us he spent $3k-$4k for a ratted out Dodge Stealth with huge miles and a lot of work to be done on it. I can't remember his name, but I also remember "madmanmoo" absolutely running roughshod over this same fellow.
Bits and pieces from memory, the Dodge Stealth (according to the expert poster) was a collectible. It drove, performed and handled as well or better than any recent sports car. And, he would fix it up to the point where he'd make a bundle on it after he was finished with it.
He may have been right about one thing, I can't remember the last time I saw one on the road. So, I suppose they're rare. But, not because they're collectibles. But, they are "frightpigs" (sorry brentwood, but I just love that term) that no one wanted, weren't on the market all that long. And those that were sold, have probably been recycled into soda cans by now.
LOL, that is what I like about you Richard...good old down to earth common sense. I hate to say this but from my non expert observations, you must have been a rarity in your profession.
I think yall are referring to our old friend "deskman". I did not like him at first, then he started to grow on me because he was so open about how he felt about things, then he just sort of went off the deep end and disappeared.
I can't remember his name, but I also remember "madmanmoo" absolutely running roughshod over this same fellow.
tbaxxon was his name, being smarter than the average car salesman was his game. :P
His famous "Stealth" thread is over in the "Buying Tips" discussion I believe. It is the anti-matter of richards famous introductory thread.
Actually tbaxxon did know quite a bit about the buying and negotiating process, which bruised the egos of some of our sales people here. I don't think they gave him a fair shake... IMO. :sick:
jipster...good memory. The "Stealth" admirer's name was "tbaxxon".
As they say, sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it. From what I remember, the guy was pretty abrasive and condescending. The message, regardless of it's worth, gets a bit lost when presented in that fashion.
From what I remember, the guy was pretty abrasive and condescending. The message, regardless of it's worth, gets a bit lost when presented in that fashion.
True. There was a lot of "abrasiveness" going on whenever he posted. I'm sure underneath it all he was a pretty good guy... just a bit hard headed.
I do recall my brothers brother-in-law (?), who was/is the general manager of a local dealership, bringing a Dodge Stealth to one of our family picnics. I believe it was either new or a year or two old. Anyhow, I was looking at it and commenting that I thought it looked pretty cool. He said it was for sale, I could take it out for a test driive, that he would give me a good price.... and no I am not tbaxxon in disguise if anyone is thinking that. But, I declined the Stealth as my car situation was fine. Anywho, I always remember that Stealth whenever that thread or tbaxxon is brought up. :shades:
That was really a Mitsubishi GTO (call GT3000 here in US). Not a bad car for it's time from what I've read. 330hp in the turbo model. Too small for Americans over 5'10" tall.
I'd be scared to death of buying one with 150K miles on it. But then again, that guy was an "expert".
Speaking of Mitsus, today I saw a previous generation Lancer with a dealer plate "laying rubber" all over the place For not being an EVO this little car was really lighting up the tires.
I thought you guys didn't allow that kind of behavior on test drives? I supose it could have been a couple of salesmen goofing around but then that would confirm my worst fears about buying a used car. :surprise: :lemon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
oldfarmer...again, going from memory, I think "tbaxxon's" Stealth was the "ordinary" one. No Turbos. No AWD. Just a mitsu V6 (could have been a Dodge V6, not sure). So, it wasn't even a desirable model.
I remember when they came out. Those Stealths were rebadged Mitsus. I knew a person who actually had one. He was merely an acquaintance, so I didn't see him that often. His was the "hot" version, though. Drove it once.
Not a bad performer, in turbo/AWD trim, but very punishing. I'm not a big guy. But, the interior was very cramped, even for me. Seats were uncomfortable. And, even though it had AWD, you didn't want to drive it in the wet/snow, as it could be a handful.
I think he kept it for less than a year and traded it for a new 'vette. Unfortunately, he passed away. The 'vette was given to his 17 year old son, who proceeded to put a big wing on the 'vette and some ridiculous wheels. Last I heard, the son had lost his license for multiple DUIs. But, that was over a decade ago. Don't know what happened to him, or the 'vette after that.
In any event, both the Stealth and the Mitsu 3000 were "busts" in the market place.
Post # 3667 in the "Buying Tips..." discussion by tbaxxon Aug 13, 2007 (9:39 pm)
Another trip down memory lane, below is the beginning of the thread where tbaxxon starts talking about his Stealth.
I was referring to cars with 70K-150K. Not over 200K or even over 10 years old.
I just bought a 92 Stealth week end driver.with 156K on it for $3k It has new JDM engine (70K) rebuilt trans. New brakes, ABS ECU, tie rods, cv + boots , Timing belt all the hoses clutch, All withing the last $15k .Everything works. Its a play toy. I would put another $4K-5K into the car if it needed it next week. Now where am I going to drive a 225 HP Sport car that one does not see everyday and looking like new $7K. NOWHERE in any dealership. And Thats BEFORE I put the $4k I have allocated for future repairs in it! Yeah I could go out and buy a 2 year old Vette and take a huge deprecation beating. Id rather put the "depreciation money" into the car rather then leave it in the dealer's bank.
Looks like he had the middle of the road 225 HP engine in his Stealth GG, which was reviewed as being fairly decent. The base model had something along the lines of a 165HP engine, and the high performance turbo was around 330HP.
Funny how things progress over a period of years in autodom.
Today, you can get just about any current sedan with a v6 that will outgun a Stealth. Those were just "duds" as cars...even moreso with the Dodge moniker.
Frankly, I've always been mildly interested in Mitsus, but never owned one. I do remember taking a test drive in a new AWD Turbo Eclipse "back in the day". It was a slick piece at the time. EVOs are legendary with the autox crowd (and those who insist on having a big "wing" affixed to their derrieres).
Today, you can get just about any current sedan with a v6 that will outgun a Stealth.
No doubt. A bog-standard V6 Accord with a stick is a rocket ship these days. There must only be 5 cars or so on the market now that do 0-60 over 10 seconds now. :surprise:
Unless I lit my cigars with $100 bills, a car like the Stealth... highly unreliable and expensive to repair, would have been last on my list of cars to buy. :sick:
I did re-read that entire "Stealth" thread, and I have to say, it was one of the most entertaining, action packed and drama laden threads I have ever read. I didn't keep count, but there had to be at least 6 redirections/prompts from the hosts to get back on topic. Kirstie warning that posts would be removed, and she had the hormones to do it. ouch! :P
The friend who put in an order for a new Taurus SHO was contacted by his dealer over the holiday. It's supposed to be in on 1/10. He doesn't have a vin#, so we'll see. Of more interest is the fact he's also the same guy who bought an '08 Cobra. He listed it on "craigslist" to see if he could use its proceeds to buy the SHO. Well, he did indeed sell it (it had all of 1,700 miles on it) to a collector from TN. And yes, he took a real bath on it.....losing more than $12K on it for 1,700 miles of "fun". Expensive fun, but at least it wasn't me that took the bath.
Anyway, what makes this more interesting was the fact that the buyer didn't truck the Cobra back to TN. He decided to drive it. While we haven't had a lot of snow around here (up until today), it has been wet and slick for a few weeks. Seems as if the new buyer didn't believe my friend when he said he should probably tow or trailer the Cobra back to TN. He drove it back (almost).
Well, on the way home, the new buyer put the Cobra in a ditch because it just wouldn't stay on the road in slick conditions. I'm quite sure that he maybe, perhaps, might have been, exceeding the speed limit when this happened. He's physically OK, except my friend said he's got a bruised ego.
There's a lesson in all of that for many people. Don't feel like pontificating right now, though. :shades:
Hey Bill! Welcome back my friend. Happy & healthy new year to you!
graphicguy: I have a customer/friend who bought the same '08 (or maybe '07 whatever the 1st year was) Shelby GT500 Mustang. He's got about maybe 650 - 700 miles on it. Paid $20K over sticker for it back in the day.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Comments
q - I knew this would follow me into this topic... Was that Volvo all the way out on Long Island? I did finally look and that was the nearest place I found with a C70 with a stick.
I'm waiting to hear brentwood's comment on the Saab. Hoping he isn't waiting another two years! :surprise:
It's only theoretical. While I'd entertain an attractive convertible if one were to pop up it would have to be cheap and reliable. I'd like it a little easier to get into than the Celica. If i don't happen upon anything the Celica is fine. Only 143K on it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
There actually used to be a Volvo dealer in Passaic. City motors used to be a Pontiac - Volvo - Honda dealer. They are now Garden State Honda. My first Ody was from there though I bought it at their other location - Route 23 Honda in Pompton Plains.
We couldn't even get her approved on anything at any rate, let alone a $30k+ truck.
Yes, math eludes some. :sick:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Someone also said, "If you look back, you may fall over the coffee table and bust your [non-permissible content removed]." :P
I made up that one. :shades:
Richard
Richard
Richard
The early C70 Ragtops are excrement boxes. They leak, they break, they cost a lot to fix, then they break again, then they leak again, then the customers got aggravated and threw temper tantrums because their $40K+ cars were permabroken, then Volvo hides their heads in the sand, then we get stuck with the grief...etc.
Yeah I hate those things.
That's a nice area. If you want to buy crack.
I will say this... it is a 5-speed (So it's gotta be a HPT) and it does have the Surround sound with that funky in-Dash CD changer that they used to use.
It just has those nasty 16" wheels.. they looks SO much nicer with those split 5-spoke wheels.
It is Black over Sand... still........ Galves is $4,175 on it
Wow, how the mighty have fallen.
If I read it right you have something far more tempting on your lot...
The car that I think you're mentioning is nice.. got an ASC light on, tires just pass inspection, and a quarter has been painted. Overall nice car tho.
I think only an Alfa or an 88 XJ6 can be more trouble than an S80
I'll plead ignorance - ASC light?
Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again." and I really don't want to go back and read them. It was bad enough the first time.
I went back and re-read that thread richard. There really isn't much of anything negative in that thread, a rude comment or two from isell... mac thinking you were a troll because you didn't respond early enough. You handled yourself very well, the mild frustration you displayed in one post justified in my opinion... certainly not "testy". Even in the beginning most of the salesmen, and all the non-biz guys, were supportive, informative and helpful. The personal experience of buying that car, you may not want to "come home to". But the thread itself is something to be proud of... as the outcome can attest to. A true story from the sales frontline that would be both informative and beneficial to those Edmunds readers who came in later. :shades:
Possibly a problem with the LEW (Steering Angle Sensor)
My post was not intended to get any responses. It was a tongue in the cheek remark just for some humor and to inject some life into the thread which at that time was very slow ! No offense intended - to be taken in the right spirit :P
And by the way, I have a very happy service story coming up regarding which I had promised that I would report the follow up. :shades:
It had a check engine light on, ABS light was on, brake light was on and to round things out, the air bag light was on.
She had just finished spending something like 3000.00 fixing other things.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I just got back from Florida and I was just dying to find a salesman like that...just for laughs. I wanted to go shopping for a convertible for my son but the spoiled sport I'm married to put the kybash on that idea. I was just drooling over the dozens of car lots down there. And there is no rust!
Instead I had to content myself by buzzing around in a rented Toyota Yaris. If this is the future of cars I may take the bus. Don't get me wrong, for what it does it's not a bad car. Rides OK, handles OK, has some pep (up to about 40) and has great gas milage but it makes my PT Crusier feel like a luxury car. I'd feel like a hound dog that just got "fixed" if I had to drive a Yaris full time. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's my quote of the day award winner!!! :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Worth a grand, maybe $1,500 if the car is really super clean. It's a shame really, you guys may remember that I had leased a couple T6s... nice cars, incredibly comfortable seats, roomy, good stereo.
As reliable as a Paper-Mache Alfa Romeo.
My '04 T6 sucked up 2 trannies and an engine. In 34k miles. The best part about that pile of rotten swedish meatballs was the "OnCall Plus" which included a TDMA Phone that had to be activated by AT&T wireless. By the time I got the '04 in May of '03 AT&T Wireless WOULD NO LONGER ACTIVATE NEW TDMA PHONES!
Idjits...idjits I tell ya.
That's my quote of the day award winner!!!
Wow, that was good, very good. I think I understand the concept really well. I feel the same way driving a Yaris, but I just couldn't express it that well.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Bits and pieces from memory, the Dodge Stealth (according to the expert poster) was a collectible. It drove, performed and handled as well or better than any recent sports car. And, he would fix it up to the point where he'd make a bundle on it after he was finished with it.
He may have been right about one thing, I can't remember the last time I saw one on the road. So, I suppose they're rare. But, not because they're collectibles. But, they are "frightpigs" (sorry brentwood, but I just love that term) that no one wanted, weren't on the market all that long. And those that were sold, have probably been recycled into soda cans by now.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I think yall are referring to our old friend "deskman". I did not like him at first, then he started to grow on me because he was so open about how he felt about things, then he just sort of went off the deep end and disappeared.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
tbaxxon was his name, being smarter than the average car salesman was his game. :P
His famous "Stealth" thread is over in the "Buying Tips" discussion I believe. It is the anti-matter of richards famous introductory thread.
Actually tbaxxon did know quite a bit about the buying and negotiating process, which bruised the egos of some of our sales people here. I don't think they gave him a fair shake... IMO. :sick:
Richard
Richard
Richard
Saab Volvo Update
Some leave on thier own and others get a bit of help with their departures.
... you believe in alien abductions too? :surprise:
As they say, sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it. From what I remember, the guy was pretty abrasive and condescending. The message, regardless of it's worth, gets a bit lost when presented in that fashion.
True. There was a lot of "abrasiveness" going on whenever he posted. I'm sure underneath it all he was a pretty good guy... just a bit hard headed.
I do recall my brothers brother-in-law (?), who was/is the general manager of a local dealership, bringing a Dodge Stealth to one of our family picnics. I believe it was either new or a year or two old. Anyhow, I was looking at it and commenting that I thought it looked pretty cool. He said it was for sale, I could take it out for a test driive, that he would give me a good price.... and no I am not tbaxxon in disguise if anyone is thinking that. But, I declined the Stealth as my car situation was fine. Anywho, I always remember that Stealth whenever that thread or tbaxxon is brought up. :shades:
That was really a Mitsubishi GTO (call GT3000 here in US). Not a bad car for it's time from what I've read. 330hp in the turbo model. Too small for Americans over 5'10" tall.
I'd be scared to death of buying one with 150K miles on it. But then again, that guy was an "expert".
Speaking of Mitsus, today I saw a previous generation Lancer with a dealer plate "laying rubber" all over the place For not being an EVO this little car was really lighting up the tires.
I thought you guys didn't allow that kind of behavior on test drives? I supose it could have been a couple of salesmen goofing around but then that would confirm my worst fears about buying a used car. :surprise: :lemon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We've had one or two who landed on this site by mistake. :P
Richard
I remember when they came out. Those Stealths were rebadged Mitsus. I knew a person who actually had one. He was merely an acquaintance, so I didn't see him that often. His was the "hot" version, though. Drove it once.
Not a bad performer, in turbo/AWD trim, but very punishing. I'm not a big guy. But, the interior was very cramped, even for me. Seats were uncomfortable. And, even though it had AWD, you didn't want to drive it in the wet/snow, as it could be a handful.
I think he kept it for less than a year and traded it for a new 'vette. Unfortunately, he passed away. The 'vette was given to his 17 year old son, who proceeded to put a big wing on the 'vette and some ridiculous wheels. Last I heard, the son had lost his license for multiple DUIs. But, that was over a decade ago. Don't know what happened to him, or the 'vette after that.
In any event, both the Stealth and the Mitsu 3000 were "busts" in the market place.
Another trip down memory lane, below is the beginning of the thread where tbaxxon starts talking about his Stealth.
I was referring to cars with 70K-150K. Not over 200K or even over 10 years old.
I just bought a 92 Stealth week end driver.with 156K on it for $3k It has new JDM engine (70K) rebuilt trans. New brakes, ABS ECU, tie rods, cv + boots , Timing belt all the hoses clutch, All withing the last $15k .Everything works. Its a play toy. I would put another $4K-5K into the car if it needed it next week. Now where am I going to drive a 225 HP Sport car that one does not see everyday and looking like new $7K. NOWHERE in any dealership. And Thats BEFORE I put the $4k I have allocated for future repairs in it! Yeah I could go out and buy a 2 year old Vette and take a huge deprecation beating. Id rather put the "depreciation money" into the car rather then leave it in the dealer's bank.
Looks like he had the middle of the road 225 HP engine in his Stealth GG, which was reviewed as being fairly decent. The base model had something along the lines of a 165HP engine, and the high performance turbo was around 330HP.
Funny how things progress over a period of years in autodom.
Today, you can get just about any current sedan with a v6 that will outgun a Stealth. Those were just "duds" as cars...even moreso with the Dodge moniker.
Frankly, I've always been mildly interested in Mitsus, but never owned one. I do remember taking a test drive in a new AWD Turbo Eclipse "back in the day". It was a slick piece at the time. EVOs are legendary with the autox crowd (and those who insist on having a big "wing" affixed to their derrieres).
Richard
No doubt. A bog-standard V6 Accord with a stick is a rocket ship these days. There must only be 5 cars or so on the market now that do 0-60 over 10 seconds now. :surprise:
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
I did re-read that entire "Stealth" thread, and I have to say, it was one of the most entertaining, action packed and drama laden threads I have ever read. I didn't keep count, but there had to be at least 6 redirections/prompts from the hosts to get back on topic. Kirstie warning that posts would be removed, and she had the hormones to do it. ouch! :P
jipster,,,,,,brave man.....you've got cajones saying that Kirstie "out hormoned" the Dodge Stealth protagonist, tbaxxon, you're referring to. :surprise:
The friend who put in an order for a new Taurus SHO was contacted by his dealer over the holiday. It's supposed to be in on 1/10. He doesn't have a vin#, so we'll see. Of more interest is the fact he's also the same guy who bought an '08 Cobra. He listed it on "craigslist" to see if he could use its proceeds to buy the SHO. Well, he did indeed sell it (it had all of 1,700 miles on it) to a collector from TN. And yes, he took a real bath on it.....losing more than $12K on it for 1,700 miles of "fun". Expensive fun, but at least it wasn't me that took the bath.
Anyway, what makes this more interesting was the fact that the buyer didn't truck the Cobra back to TN. He decided to drive it. While we haven't had a lot of snow around here (up until today), it has been wet and slick for a few weeks. Seems as if the new buyer didn't believe my friend when he said he should probably tow or trailer the Cobra back to TN. He drove it back (almost).
Well, on the way home, the new buyer put the Cobra in a ditch because it just wouldn't stay on the road in slick conditions. I'm quite sure that he maybe, perhaps, might have been, exceeding the speed limit when this happened. He's physically OK, except my friend said he's got a bruised ego.
There's a lesson in all of that for many people. Don't feel like pontificating right now, though. :shades:
graphicguy: I have a customer/friend who bought the same '08 (or maybe '07 whatever the 1st year was) Shelby GT500 Mustang. He's got about maybe 650 - 700 miles on it. Paid $20K over sticker for it back in the day.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD