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the engine completely new technology for ford.
the other cars you are interested in are mechanically proven.
i say this only because it is a first year model, nothing specifically about the car.
plus the SHO is a larger, heavier car than any of the others you are looking at.
as far as Miami U goes, we fell in love with it as having almost everything we were looking for, good acedemic standards, not too big or small, a nice college town(city) setting, and some good D1 sports. we are big ice hockey fans.
what it is missing is it being close to where we live
on our way home from oxford last weekend, the right rear directional in the explorer stopped working, so i am thinking, it's 8 years old and needs a new bulb.
later on, it started working again, so i thought, maybe it's just the cold weather.
a little while later, it stopped working again, so i'm thinking 'electrical problem'.
it spurred me to start dealer search for a new one. searching the 6 closest dealers, i only found 1 i would consider. msrp 46+k!
i bought 2 new rear bulbs, put them in and am hoping for the best.
I have driven it a time or two and it is impressive. I particularly like the styling of the coupe. It is clean and sharp but not flashy. The interior is really nice, both design and materials.
On the other hand my 2004 Acura RL was one of the best cars I ever had. I loved it. That said, I am not sold on the current styling. Don't like the beak.
I don't think you could go wrong with either one. Good luck and enjoy the chase.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Few cars can be more troublesome!
I am glad you tried the A4. I was very impressed with the A4, Quatro drive, Good solid ride, great handling, turbo engine for pick up and economy and if you like a manual transmission, it is a blast to drive. Go about 60 mph and put 2 wheels on gravel and the car won't swerve or go out of control.
Buying a car is very personal so I am not trying to influence you, just trying to be helpful. In 1999 we tried a Maxima, and I was totally impressed...it was fast, comfortable, great handling. My wife feels European cars have a certain feel that cannot be duplicated, so we tried a MB C Class. Not as jazzy, but it is classically elegant and just doesn't go out of style the way that Maxima would have gone out of style if it was on the road today....meanwhile the Mercedes would still look like a classic.
IMHO, the Audi, though not as jazzy looking, and without all the gimmicks, will remain a true classic for many years, and will have handling and a feel of the road, and a joy of driving, that can't be duplicated by a non-European car. I loved my Oldsmobiles, my Chevies (even a Celebrity EUROSPORT which wasn't very Euro or very sporty), my Jeeps, but there is something extra special about a European built car.
Infinitys and accura's are great cars, and they might suit you better. To go with the Audi you have to accept the car won't be as jazzy and glitzy, but often simplicity and good old values, like feel of the road, comfortable interior, elegant but not overdone instrument panel, make some cars classics...and an Audi will qualify for its simple elegance and driving experience.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Back when I presided over the morning criminal court arraignment docket I once had a defendant tell me that he had "multiple personality disorder"; I told him he needed to get them all together and decide on an attorney.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
LOL, that's good.
Sorry everyone, my picture ran over the edge. It looked ok when I did it. I have been trying to keep from going off the page (usually extra small pictures lately),
and this one showed up ok on the preview....and I think even after posting.
I think we are near the bottom of the page so write a few more posts, and we can move to a new page.
Driver
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Fact is, I'm not loyal to any brand, model, heck....I'm not even loyal to a country of origin. This is the broadest search for a new vehicle I've ever done. Ordinarily, I lock onto one, maybe two models, then go make my deal.
The one thing this search has done is to hone in to what it is I'm really looking for, at a price point I've set for myself.
I want the car to be quick. Maybe not the quickest in the class, but still fast. I want something that handles well, in all types of conditions and weather. I want something that's comfortable for me (which may be different than something comfortable for anyone else). I want something with a good reliability reputation. And, I want something that offers a taste of luxury and is very up-to-date. I want something big enough on trips for 4. I'm trying not to get emotionally attached to any particular car (which I almost was with the 135i convertible, which really didn't fit most of my objectives to begin with).
I'm not going to take it "autox-ing". I'm not taking it to the track. I'm to the point where stop light wars don't interest me much anymore. I want something that doesn't fall all over itself if I do some spirited driving on two lane, curvy roads (say, a trip to Oxford, OH).
Based on all of that, I still come up with the same two choices.....the TL AWD and the G37x. While I did like the Audi, for about the same price, I could get the G37x, which I prefer over the A4. Not a slight to the Audi....just my preference. I'll admit that the 4 cyl turbo motor is impressive. For what it's worth, I would choose an A4 Q over a 328ix, however.
A 335ix hits all of my points, but it's ~$10K+ more than any of the other choices. Some will disagree, but I don't think it's a better car than my other choices.....maybe something here and there it does better. But, also here and there, is a little worse. Then, there's the "elephant in the room"....the big price gap.
That's how I see it. So, it still comes down to the G or the TL.
Been fielding dealership phone calls fast and furious (and yes, I answer each and every one of them). Told them all, I'll be traveling for work the next couple of weeks. They all say about the same thing..."give me a deposit and I'll hold your car". Or, "let's make a deal right now with a cc deposit and we'll have the car ready for you to drive home today." They're all firing out numbers as fast as I can write them down. None of those numbers have moved me in any significant way, one vs the other. I've got my own numbers to fire, which I haven't put on paper, yet.
Stick with me another couple of weeks, if you choose.
We're here, cheering you on all the way GG.
Your reasoning is good, you have thought it out well!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
compare G37, A4 328, TL
Might even get us to a new page....I hope!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Just wait until you get your letter. :P
I wonder because I see a lot of Infinity Gs around me and many are the x model. Makes sense for snowy upstate NY but I've always worried about what the extra weight does to all-around performance.
What's your reasoning?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
They did hit the 328i assessment squarely on the head when it comes to equipment/feature levels, though. For the price, it's very underwhelming. Still, can't deny it's a good driver's car. So are the rest.
While I still don't quite "get" the push button start feature (what's wrong with sticking a key in the ignition and turning it? Is that so difficult?), it seems to be where the industry is heading. In the BMW, you insert the fob into a slot, and then hit the start button. But, if you don't want to do that, they charge $500 to get "real" keyless start.
I think my tastes are a tad different than those of trade rag journalists.
I like to play "what would you buy" games on ebay motors. Let's say you have $45K to spend. You can get a 335ix, brand new, with some hard negotiation for that price.
Or, you can get this.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-JAGUAR-XF-LUXURY-LIKE-NEW-SAVE-THOUSANDS_W0Q- QitemZ120515767081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1c0f4cab29
I might be tempted to take the latter over the former.
As for salesmanship, I'm sure that you are correct---as long as one of the "alters" doesn't interfere.
Richard
I'll sacrifice a bit of 0-60 times for those handling advantages.
In the TL, for example, there's a significant bump in the day-to-day driving dynamics between the FWD TL and the AWD TL. The FWD version reminds me a whole lot of the ride/drive of the Genesis. That's not a bad thing. It's pretty cushy and very hushed. The FWD TL's steering is a little quirky, too. IMHO, the steering in the TL AWD is pretty much ideal....just enough feedback without feeling heavy....very fluid.
With the G37x, it becomes eminently "tossable" with AWD. You can upset the back end of the G with just RWD going through a bumpy corner. Not so with the "X" version. Add the sport package (S version) and the ride borders on harsh. For me, the G37x is also ideal in the way it handles.
The differences in the two AWD systems, the way they feel, isn't significant enough to even mention.
The snow has all melted around here, so I wasn't able to test out the Quatro system of the A4 in the snow. But, from my test drive yesterday, in normal driving, it gives the same sort of handling dynamics of both the TL AWD and G37 AWD.
Having driven both the Infiniti and the Acura in the snow with AWD, they both offer very real advantages in poor weather, in addition to better handling in the dry. That's just icing on the cake to me.
I know that some live and breath by test results on the track that the likes of C&D, R&T, MT...even Edmunds posts. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I don't. Empirical numbers are one thing. Living with a car, commuting in it, sitting in its seats, driving it, every day is the decision we all have to make, regardless of 60-0, 0-60, skidpad #s, etc.
I'm not tracking my cars. I'm more concerned with how it passes on the interstate.....with how it handles on the roads I drive every day.....how comfortable is it when I take a 500 mile trip, etc.
been following your selection process. In prior emails you reference Oxford, OH area and also talk about going to different dealerships to look at the TL and G37. Just curious, are you looking in Dayton or Cincinnati? If in Dayton, if you are looking in south Dayton area both the Acura and the Infiniti dealerships ae owned by the same ownership. FYI
How's it rated? Watts = Volts x Amps, so your pump will draw 240 watts, though there will be a surge at start-up.
Most inverters are rated to allow for that surge, so a 300 watt inverter should be fine.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
AWD will help you stay on wet slick roads, or even keep it under control on gravel, or other situations. I don't think it takes away from the handling in any way, if anything it makes the car seem more stable and sure footed....and indeed it is.
There is extra weight which will slow you down a bit, and cost you a bit in fuel efficiency. Might cost more for maintenance and repairs.....but in my opinion, it is well worth it, just for the extra peace of mind.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Dayton Infiniti and Acura stores are roughly 45 minutes from me. The two Cincinnati Acura dealerships, although in two different locales, are both about 30 minutes from me, as is the one Infiniti store. I can go either way. If I expand my search a bit, Louisville and Lexington, KY are about 90-100 minutes away, as is Columbus.
If I really want to expand my search, Chicago is about 5 hours from me. But, the local stores would have to be way out of line price or selection wise for me to do that.
Generally speaking, the one Infiniti and two Acura dealerships local to me have great selections.
I'd rather stick with the Cincy dealerships, for no other reason than if things go way awry, I'm of the mind that the selling store is much more likely to provide the service I expect.
As kyfdx points out, even though he lives in KY, he car shops in OH. There are some really good dealerships in Cincy.....not many who are really places I wouldn't want to deal with.
The best way to put it is that an xDrive car feels like a top-tier athlete who stopped training 2 weeks ago. He's still in the top one-tenth of 1%, but the edge has been dulled a bit. Put it another way - the RWD BMWs are just a little more entertaining.
I can't say if this applies to an Infiniti G because I've never driven one. And if I had to buy an Acura TL, which would require me to close my eyes to its, um, weird styling, I'd pick the AWD version because its handling would come closer to an RWD car than the FWD version would.
Keep in mind that I have a 4WD Honda CR-V for those nasty winter mornings. And I commute to work on a Long Island Rail Road M7. The Honda can handle the 3 mile drive to the station, no matter what the weather. I don't know what my choice would be if I had to drive 20+ miles to the office.
although the picture driver posted of A4 looks great in red, i could never own a car that color.
btw, enjoy your trip for the next couple of weeks.
Like I said, it looked ok in the preview, and I believe it was ok when I posted it. It was late and I had worked all day. By the time I realized the pix was too big I couldn't go back to edit it. I am very sorry, don't like to make a problem for the nice people at Edmunds or on the sight. I will try to be more careful in the future.
You have to admit, even for a bmw guy, that Audi sure is pretty.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2nd....burgandy w/grey int
3rd....dark blue (not slate blue, not robin egg blue, but midnight blue) w/tan int (jist like my Tahoe).
Regardless of car, I usually stick to the above.
But I am a bit biased...
I think the quality of the A4 especially has gone way up. Funny how those past experiences influence you for life. Looks like Richard won't get another Cadilac, but my brother had a Rabbit that was one of the worst lemons :lemon: in history, and he just bought a Jetta.
All of my cars were reasonably good, but I think the worse ones were a 63 Mercury Comet, and a 86 Corsica......so I am a little leary of Fords and GMs, but would buy one today if it suited my needs and if I thought it was a good value.
Although we like our bmws, I think Audi might have the perfect styling of all regular day to day cars. The classic lines will still look nice 20 years from now.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A lot of people have a phobia about a red car. I like red cars, although I don't have one now.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Car color is such a personal thing. I always drove used cars so color was never high on the list of important things.
When I bought the Eclipse new I was surprised how important color became. Few of the colors offered were "just right" to my mind. The black was OK but the other colors including the bright red just didn't click.
Then the 2008 model came out with something called "RAVE RED" which was a tad darker and it was just what I wanted. Would I have still bought the car without that specific color choice? Probably yes, but I wouldn't have been nearly as happy.
When I bought my wife's PT Crusier I had to get it from 2 states over to get her color. She didn't care about much else.
I believe every car has a color that makes it look best.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Easy there, big fella. There are few things in life that are as much a matter of personal taste as styling. If it were otherwise, you wouldn't see people (who should know better) buying Cadillacs & dressing them up with carriage tops & wide whitewall tires.
Today's Audi is a handsome & distinctive car, but my hunch is that the exceedingly prominent gaping mouth grill might keep it from being considered a classic. That will get old fairly soon. If I had to pick a car that people will admire 20 years from now, I'd choose the E39 generation (1996-2003 in the U.S. market) 5-series BMW or the E46 generation (1999-2005 in the U.S. market) 3-series BMW. Both are elegant, understated designs.
I have to agree with almost everything you said and although I agree, taste is an individual matter, you have what I consider to be excellent taste in design (both are elegant, understated designs). Do you have something to do in the world of art or design? Not too many people, can appreciate the beauty of a simple but elegant design. I have known people who think a bmw looks like some cheap foreign car because it doesn't have enough chrome and steel, but they think a Cadillac or a Monte Carlo is a work of art.
Although I prefer bmws, and the models you mentioned do have a classic design that I think will still look good in 20 years, I think the Audi will also look good. I would prefer the smaller grill, more like the last generation, but they are making a statement, and they might know what they are doing. Just like the tailights on the 5 Series, which everyone complained about, but which a lot of others have copied including Acura and Camry.
The 2008 A4 is not as subtle, but it does make a bold statement, and really says - this is an Audi!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm a BMW guy who's less than thrilled with my brand's latest offerings. The current 3 looks porky - particularly in dark colors - & I've never warmed to the latest 5. I'm thankful that my '01 330i continues to run like a top. Don't know what I'd buy if I had to make a decision today.
I think nothing looks bettter than a 10 to 20 year old Mercedes, bmw, Audi, Jaguar.
I like the dependability, and the new features of a new car. But, I would prefer they look like the earlier model.
I saw a 1999 C Class today, and we had one of those. i said I wish we still had that car...I like the looks better than the next two model changeovers, and the 4 cylinder turbo was a lot of fun.....economical, but it could go.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Richard
True, but the car has to be kept clean...few things look worse than a mud encrusted black car.
Richard, we finally got rid of the employee who would yell and scream and call another employee names. It took a long time because we wanted to give her a chance, but as you and several people pointed out, we should have done it immediately. She had at least 3 meetings and a lawyer letter before we did it. After one meeting she was told she had to get along with X from now on, she walked over to his desk and said to the other employee, "I was told we have to get along, got it" and walked away. There is a lot less tension in the room now, and everyone is more productive.
The week before we saw the movie Up in the Air. In the movie George Clooney goes around the country firing people, that's his job. One of the great lines he uses when he fires people is "Look at it as a great opportunity, this is what a lot of people went through to move on to greater things". The movie is sad, seeing all these people lose their jobs. I could identify because I always say I was canned from my last 3 jobs, though they were actually downsizing. It actually was the best thing that could have happened to me, but it didn't seem it at the time.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And the owner has an unlimited car wash coupon book or a tired wrist from washing and waxing.
Long ago I ordered a black car with deep burgundy interior, cloth. That soon broke my fantasy since I had always tried to keep a clean car at the time. Our next car was ordered as a medium brown with which dirt blended very nicely. Then we went to reds.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It was a programming problem and they fixed the car up, all under the warranty, thank goodness. The car was there for 7 hours...I haven't looked at garage rates for a long time, since most of my repairs were under warranty for the last few years. $125 to diagnose a problem, $125 an hour for garage time, and for a ride related problem a minimum of $250!
OMG, I might have to trade it in when the warranty runs out! :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I only do about 10k miles a year, so the car should last easily for 10 years...then it gets to that classic stage that makes it even better. You're right, I had forgotten about the extended warranty....I might not have a new car story to tell for a long time!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Anyway, in talking with a couple of old-timers in my department in the late 90s, they were lamenting the massive loss of talent during the layoffs. And they both said, "All of the good people left then." So I replied, "What does that make you?" They looked at each other rather dumbfounded until they got what I was saying. As many people pointed out, the bloodletting led to this company's recovery and huge growth.
To bring this back to cars, one of the old-timers had a mid-80s El Camino that he still drove to work in the late 90s. The thing burned oil, and you could always tell if he'd been on I-75 by the trail of blue smoke down the interstate. He gave that baby to his church for an auction in 1999 or 2000. He had leftover parts from it that he was selling on ebay for the next few years.
How could we ever forget? :P
A guy a work had a beautiful silver 2007 or 2008 335i that I lusted after. I used to kid him that if he needed to make room in his driveway he could park his BMW in mine. The other day I was asking him about it and he said "Oh that piece of junk? I got rid of it."
He then explained how the car had no end of electrical problems including deciding on it's own to open all the windows and the sun roof during a snow storm. The guy came out the next morning to find a foot of snow on his leather seats.
The final straw came when he ran over a nail with his run flat tires. He called the dealer to ask how far he could drive like that and the dealer told him to shut the car down where ever he was and get it flatbeded to the shop because "you can't drive those run flats when they are flat". He did as he was told and still had to pay $1000 to replace the tire.
He also said the car was terrible in the snow. (Don't ask me why he'd take a $50K car out in the snow with summer tires). :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Fantastic cars that I love but they simply do not age well and they are VERY expensive to fix.
Breaks
More
Wallets
Not nearly as bad as a Volvo or an Audi though.
As long as a person knows the pitfalls and doesn't mind spending the bucks, they can be great cars to own.
The people that I worry about are the people who buy a used one that they really can't affford. They are stretching themselves to make the payments of a car out of warranty. One big problem can spell disaster.
Suze Orman would NOT approve!
If you haven't done so yet, I highly recommend the book "Who Says Elephants Can't Dance?" by Lou Gertsner. Fascinating study of how the company was transformed from top to bottom.
I have a co-worker who bought a salvage titled Boxster from Virginia, trucked it to Colorado and had it rebuilt. My only question is --- why? He thinks he got a screaming deal; I'm thinking he spent a bunch of money on a car that really can't be resold.