Stories from the Sales Frontlines

tjc78

Fantastic cars that I love but they simply do not age well and they are VERY expensive to fix.

Our General Mgr here at work has a 5 series (08-09?) and I see the loaner 3 seriers from the dealer in his spot more than he would care to admit. I think the last repair was for a new tranny (just imagine what that would cost out of warranty).

isellhondas

I agree. An RL is a LOT of car for the money!

tidester

Suze Orman would NOT approve!

Nor would Clark Howard!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

oldfarmer50

"...Suze Orman would NOT approve..."

"...Nor would Clark Howard..."

Nor would Dave Ramsey

Speaking of Suze Orman I saw an interview with her where she said she was a waitress who wanted to start a business but didn't have any money. Her manager mentioned this to some of her well-off customers and these men got together and GAVE her $50,000.

How about it sales folks? Do YOUR customers love you that much? :P

boomchek

I never understood people who buy salvage or already rebuilt cars for almost same amount as an accident free car. What's worse is many times the rebuilder tells them the factory warranty is still valid which it isn't.

One example was an acquaitnace who's family bought a rebuilt 6 month old Honda for only about $2k cheaper than what a comparable used one would cost. I think it was a Civic or a Fit.

The car had problems because it wasn't fixed and tuned properly and had no warranty to boot. It ended up being totalled again so they got a payout on it so they got out of it easy.

isellhondas

Oh yeah, every day I get more money from my customers than I can count! :P

You have to hand it to Suze. She made that 50,00 go a LONG way.

Clark Howard is just a CHEAP person who pinches every penny to the point it wouldn't be any fun living like that. Still, he gives good advise.

isellhondas

With rare exception, a Rebuilt Titled car would be a horrible buy especially if it was as a result of a major accident.

On the other hand, I knew of a person who had an S-2000 totalled simply because someone had cut the top and stole the seats. Some other damage was done in the process but nothing major. The car was totalled.

The person who bought it knew a guy who gave him a great deal on a new top and he found some seats out of a wrecked S-2000. For very little money, he was able to put together a nice little car.

michaellno

The co-worker is, in my opinion, pretty financially savvy. Owns and rents out property, stuff like that.

I'm sure he thought he was getting a great deal on the Boxster, and I'm sure it was purchased for a good initial price, but after the rebuild, I'm pretty certain that he couldn't recoup his investment if he wanted to. Not sure if he still has the car today, however.

Whatever.

driver100

"Who Says Elephants Can't Dance?" by Lou Gertsner.

Sounds like a great book, it is still #26000 in the Amazon ranking which is very high.
Some reviews:
Effective, to the point...Louis V. Gerstner Jr deserves his place in the management hall of fame." (Financial Times )

"The best business book I've ever read." (Imus in the Morning )

Who Says the Elephant Can't Dance

michaellno

Well, I'm not sure it was the "best" business book I've ever read .. I just finished one called "The Knowing Doing Gap" which has made me rethink many things about corporate life and how poorly many companies implement the knowledge they have acquired.

Nonetheless, Gertsner's book did help me understand how IBM transformed itself in the early 90's from a company that relied primarily on mainframe sales to one that has a broad focus in hardware, software and services. Much of Lou's legacy still exists in the organization to this day, even though he retired just a few months after I started working there in 2001.

If only GM and Chrysler could find someone like that to help transform them! Like Ford has with Alan Mullaly.

driver100

He also said the car was terrible in the snow. (Don't ask me why he'd take a $50K car out in the snow with summer tires).

Well what does he expect....that is why they make snow tires. I think the saying about "the less gadgets the car has then less can go wrong" is very true. Power windows were a big problem in the early days, very expensive and not too dependable. Now they are pretty well standard equipment and the power windows usually outlast the car. It comes down to how much you want all the extra features and if you are willing to pay the costs to enjoy them.

I think the guy at work was an exception though....I am sure many people are very happy with their BMWs, or they wouldn't go back for more.

deltheking

Regarding the high tech gadgets --Not necessarily..It depends on the quality of the parts used and how elaborately they were tested before introducing in the real world. Lexus has as much high tech stuff and gadgets as MB and BMW and yet it has been proven to be very reliable..I guess it all boils down to how much research funds the car maker has and how meticulously it conducts its quality checks ! :shades:

explorerx4

it's been a while since i owned a black car. my 92 SHO was black with a mocha interior. i really liked that color.
and speaking of SHO's or at least the new Taurus, i sat in one yesterday while having the explorer serviced.
it's a big car, but the center console is very wide and the door sill are high so it doesn't feel roomy. i should have sat in the back, just to try it out.
the interior trim was a bit disappointing, i could see flash marks on the several of the plastic trim pieces.
the storage covers all has some damping action, which is nice.
for example in my Fusion if you press the overhead sunglasses bin to open it, it just kind of flops open. in the Taurus it glides open.
overall, i prefer a mid size car, although the Taurus is pretty nice.

kyfdx

I would say the biggest legacy from IBM's makeover in the '90s, may be the end of the defined-benefit pension, as we know it.. They basically screwed their long-time employees, by converting their defined-benefit pension plan into a cash balance plan that decimated the retirement benefits of anyone who was over 50 yrs old.

It was so draconian that the PGBC had a moratorium on cash balance conversions for years after that.. Unfortunately, congress then passed the PPA (ironically, Pension Protection Act), which allowed companies to then kill off even more defined benefit plans.

I have no doubt those employees are/were bitter. They have every reason to be so.

regards,
kyfdx

snakeweasel

Fantastic cars that I love but they simply do not age well and they are VERY expensive to fix.

Maybe its just me but I cant understand paying all that money for a car that is that much of a problem. There are plenty of sub $25K cars that will go 150K+ miles with only regular routine maintence. Give me one of them any day.

jmonroe

There are plenty of sub $25K cars that will go 150K+ miles with only regular routine maintence.

Yeah, but when your nose is that far up in the air, how would you be able to smell those cars? :confuse:

jmonroe

isellhondas

Absoultely!

The older I get the more a car is just a means of getting from Pont A to Point B.

I'll take an "appliance" car any day over one that needs constant and expensive pampering.

lrguy44

But for many people the driving experience outweighs the downside. Different strokes for different folks.

driver100

Lexus has as much high tech stuff and gadgets as MB and BMW and yet it has been proven to be very reliable

True, if you like little robot cars. Excellent cars, definitely more reliable, but lacking a bit of soul.

driver100

There are plenty of sub $25K cars that will go 150K+ miles with only regular routine maintence.

But they aren't as much fun to drive. Depends on your priorities.

driver100

The older I get the more a car is just a means of getting from Pont A to Point B.
I'll take an "appliance" car any day over one that needs constant and expensive pampering

See above. Also, we know you don't even care what color of car you drive :P . Driving isn't just a chore to get from A to B, if you enjoy the handling and the purr of the engine. You need to try a BMW or Audi, with a manual transmission if possible.

driver100

But for many people the driving experience outweighs the downside. Different strokes for different folks

Exactly. I have driven K Cars and I have driven BMWs. I prefer the bimmer.

snakeweasel

I will address this to you and lrguy44 from a couple of posts above.

How often do you push a car where the driving experience of a BMW out does a good 20-25K car in a noticeable way? Most of the driving around here is on nearly straight rather flat roads with traffic so there is little need for handling and gunning it only means hitting the brakes that much sooner. Not to mention that no car is fun to drive during rush hour when your on the interstate doing the breathtaking speed of 20 MPH.

So I have to ask is the less than 5% of the time most people will get the full experience worth not only the 10's of thousands in additional cost, but the added inconvinence of the poor reliability?

explorerx4

BMW's have plenty of club owner 'track days'. i think that says something about the car's potential and manufacturer philosophy in building it.

isellhondas

I have had a BMW with a manual and I enjoyed it. It was worthless in bad weather and it was expensive to maintain.

I have also owner several 60's muscle cars including a 409 Chevy, two GTO's and three or four Buick Rivieras.

I would take a GTO or a 396 Camaro over a BMW any day.

I know...they don't handle and they can't stop. I know that.

There is NOTHING like the sound of a powerful V-8 running through the gears!

I also once received nine tickets in one year including three in the same week. Two of those three were on the same day by the same cop. Funny now, but not then.

Now, I'm wanting another one....someone stop me!

graphicguy

Definetly the XF over a 335i!

Brentwood, after looking at the Jag XF, and reading a few of the trade rags, I think I'd have to pick up a slightly used XF over a new 335i, too. Now, there's the reliability factor. But, I'm figuring that service and reliability is something that can be addressed with an extra warranty.

Those Jags shore do look purdy!!!!!

My sister has a Jag. I think it's an "S" model? Probably about 6-7 years old....bought it new. Not an ounce of trouble with it.

houdini1

I wonder what type of car U.S. Senator Scott Brown drives? Oh yeah, it's a Canyon Pick-Up !!

isellhondas

Which "Jaguar" is the one that is a glorified Ford Contour?

houdini1

Hey, is that a slap at the '99 Contour I am trying to acquire ? I think it was the X Type.

isellhondas

Not at all.

Heck, if you buy it, you could slap on a Jag emblem!

roadburner

He then explained how the car had no end of electrical problems including deciding on it's own to open all the windows and the sun roof during a snow storm. The guy came out the next morning to find a foot of snow on his leather seats.

The problem is that the key fob remote is poorly designed and you can inadvertently hold the button that opens all the windows and the sunroof.
Anyway, that's what he gets for parking it outside...

lrguy44

Most of the driving around here is on nearly straight rather flat roads with traffic so there is little need for handling and gunning it only means hitting the brakes that much sooner. Not to mention that no car is fun to drive during rush hour when your on the interstate doing the breathtaking speed of 20 MPH

Snake, having grown up in Chicago I can relate to your misery. However, there are many places where a driving experience can really be enjoyed. In fact, my demo route has some wonderful curvy mountain grades with a view. I have lived in 8 states and each one had many places to really enjoy a vehicle's potential. Now, living in Denver I can hop on the Hog and have a great county road to ride within 5 minutes.

deltheking

The Lexus SC is very sporty and the Lexus LFA is supposed to be an awesome car if somehow any of us can get it to even test drive !! :shades:

driver100

The problem is that the key fob remote is poorly designed and you can inadvertently hold the button that opens all the windows and the sunroof.

He blames the car when it was his fault he held his thumb on the remote too long, and that is typical of a lot of complaints. I remember a friend who put cardboard in the grill so his car would warm up faster. Had to get a new rad. Told me not to tell his wife how it happenned. I am sure once he told the story he said it was the cars fault.....and on it goes.

driver100

So I have to ask is the less than 5% of the time most people will get the full experience worth not only the 10's of thousands in additional cost, but the added inconvinence of the poor reliability?

All the extra safety and the superior handling so you can avoid an accident makes it worthwhile for me.

If you are going to use that arguement though, I suppose if you only watch TV for 2 hours a day, you might as well buy a 20 inch cathode tube TV. Why buy a 52 inch high definition flat screen? The way I see it, if I only spend an hour a day watching the news or something, I want to make the most of it, and enjoy it to the ultimate limit.

I listen to the radio for part of the day. I could just get a $15 squeak box at Sears, or I can listen on my Bose radio.

Nothing wrong with being thrifty, and I think it is important to keep a balance. We know people who are multi millionaires who buy a new Chev every 6 or 8 years. They have said we can buy whatever car we want, but they get their enjoyment from being frugal. I think it is a waste in a way, they will probably leave a lot of money for inheritances and the animal shelter...when they could have been enjoying more of it themselves.

cdnpinhead

I was wondering why there were 45 messages to read this morning, and now I know. It'll be (moderately) interesting to read through yet another episode of "BMWs suck! No they don't!"

I think I'm up to chapter 53 of the book, but there's always room for more I guess.

Well, I've read through everything now, and it was a very restrained & civil version of the never-ending discussion. Good board.

graphicguy

Speaking of BMWs, I was perusing one of the car mags at the airport waiting to board a flight. Saw a blurb that BMW is changing their 3 series motor. No change in specs. And, it wasn't clear to me why they needed to change it. But, it's been substantially redesigned starting the '11 MY.

Kirstie_H

Same problem - I love my G35, but it is tragic on anything other than dry roads.

I will say that for all of the hollering about how expensive parts & labor can be on them, I've yet to replace anything other than routine maintenance items (belts, tires, brake pads, and headlight bulbs) and I've got over 100K on it. It's only expensive if it breaks.

However, I'm thinking about adding something a bit more practical in the near future. This snowy & wet winter, with my car unavailable, has made me a bit grumpy.

Kirstie_H

Please check & challenge my latest calculation for a confused consumer in the Lease Calculations discussion.

lemko

Most likely it'll go to their spendthrift children or grandchildren who will promptly squander it. Thrifty guys make for very happy widows.

He was a good man!
WE'RE GOING TO VEGAS, GIRLS!!! :shades:

driver100

Same problem - I love my G35, but it is tragic on anything other than dry roads.

Do you have snow tires? My 08 BMW Cabriolet was useless in snow. Now, with snow tires it can keep up with the best of them....makes a huge difference, now I can enjoy my car even when it snows (I just read an article that said snow tires are much better for snow, than all wheel drive). I was thinking of getting a Suburu for the winter, now for $50 I just change over tires....and it isn't as expensive as it seems because your tires will last longer.

driver100

. Thrifty guys make for very happy widows.

LOL..........that was very good!

Kirstie_H

Nah, mostly because we don't usually get that much snow, and when we do, I rarely *have* to drive in it. We have a 4WD pickup as a back-up to the two RWD vehicles, so that's really our "winter tires" expense. Also, I probably won't have this vehicle by next winter, so it's not worth the investment for me buying a whole different set of tires.

jimbres

But for many people the driving experience outweighs the downside. Different strokes for different folks.

Agreed, but I'm more sympathetic to the other side than I would've been 10 years ago.

Here in the greater NY metro area, driving is not as much fun as it used to be, & it's getting less pleasant all the time. For one thing, there's congestion, which has never been worse & which is beginning to make ownership of a high-performance car pointless. And then there's the cell phone. The quality of driving in downstate NY, never that good in the 1st place, has reached new lows since cell phones became popular.

Lately, I've been looking for ways to avoid driving. So when it's time to replace my BMW, which has been a great pleasure to drive, I'm not sure that I'll spend as much money.

lrguy44

Agreed that a major metro life does not revolve around a good driving experience. if I lived in Chicago today I would probably ride the El and rent if I needed a car.

verdugo

(I just read an article that said snow tires are much better for snow, than all wheel drive).

The way it was explained to me was that AWD helps you get going, but snow tires help you stop. :shades:

jayrider

But how important is the quality and design of the cabin. I can overlook the driving experience but I want a feel good place to spend my time.

boomchek

Now, I'm wanting another one....someone stop me!

Then you need to join the CCBA (Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous) forums here on Edmunds to get some therapy :P

CCBA Forums

jipster

I've yet to replace anything other than routine maintenance items (belts, tires, brake pads, and headlight bulbs) and I've got over 100K on it. It's only expensive if it breaks.

That's pretty good kirstie. I remember you posting about your G35 3 or 4 years ago when you first bought it. Whenever you can go 100k miles, and only replace routine maintence items, you've done good.

isellhondas

I don't go through many cars now but if I were to tell anyone how many cars I have owned, nobody would believe me.

As an example, using old Chevys.

1949- 2
1950 - 3
1952 - 2
1953 - 1
1954 -5
1955 - 2
1959 -1
1960 -1
1962 -1
1964 -1

Those are just the ones I can remember

Camaros

1968 -1
1970 -1
1972 -2
1983 -1

Volkswagens

1957 -1
1960 -1
1962 -1
1964 -2
1968 -1 Bus
1969 3 one was a bus
1972 -1 Westfalia
1980 - Rabbit - Worst car I ever owned

I'm sure there were some I've forgotten

My total number is probably 200 plus maybe more.