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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Yeah, you could be doing much worse things than selling Fords these days. They are putting out some very nice product these days!
And it's only going to get better with the new Fiesta and the redesigned Focus coming soon.
A first-rate sport sedan marketed by mental midgets. In early 2001, I was beating the bushes, looking for a stick LS. Never found one, but I did spend far too much time talking to sales drones who couldn't figure out (1) why I wanted a stick or (2) why I didn't want a Town Car.
I have a hunch, which I probably won't live long enough to prove or disprove, that collectors will some day line up for these cars.
Cars that were unpopular when new are usually unpopular later.
In my experience L-M dealers are particularly inept when it comes to selling cars to enthusiasts. Here's what I wrote almost six years ago:
Most L-M dealers don't have a clue about how to sell a car to someone who doesn't wear white belts/shoes and/or has all their own teeth. In 1982 I visited Bluegrass L-M in Louisville to ask about the hot(for the time) 5.0 HO Capri. Some plaid suited guy in his sixties smugly advised me that the only way to get a 5.0 Capri was to special order one-since "most people won't want 'em- they get horrible gas mileage." Fast forward about ten years; My wife and I are at ANOTHER L-M dealer looking for a Tracer LTS(which was getting some good ink as a sporty econo-sedan). One problem: No manual transmissions. The idiot salesman tells us, "You don't need a stick- the car is already fast enough." About ten years after that I'm back at the same dealer trying to check out the then-new L-S. The sales guy knows NOTHING about the car; he even tells me that you can get a stick with the V8. The icing on the cake was the moron's analysis of the styling: "I really like it-'cause it looks like a Lexus."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I wonder if he is still selling cars. That's a great line though. That's like something Yogi Berra would say.
No one ever eats at that restaurant any more, it's so busy you can't even get in.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Joel, Edmunds-"where everybody knows your name"
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Toyota's obligation is to fix the vehicle so it operates as it was originally designed to operate free of defects. That's all. Not to give you another car or to compensate you with cash or buy you an Acura or pay the difference on a more expensive car.
Unless your vehicle had a 5 year satisfaction and money back guarantee, your only recourse is to sell it yourself at market value or keep it and get it repaired.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Rentals may have a delete option to keep from loosing the FOB's all the time
Thanks for your quick and learned response, as always.
I am sure they didn't have a remote, because he is a European gentleman who likes to open the door for his wife. But he had to get in the drivers side and lean across. Must be the rental firm, or maybe they got a special deal. Like the slightly irregular socks I saw the other day, some looked shorter than the mate....that's what I call irregular. Made for irregular people with different size legs.
This happened with last years model.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well then I guess I have to change brands because the sell high and buy low doesn't come from my wallet twice at the same place. Too bad, until this I liked Toyota. BMW looks interesting. Did you ever hear of an M5? V-10 engine 500HP! Talk about putting a whuppin' on a Genesis.
Taking my time to fix a brand new vehicle is not going to happen.Their fault, their problem.
Besides I never oppose my wife's serious demands. She knows how to make food appear.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Taking my time to fix a brand new vehicle is not going to happen.Their fault, their problem.
What, exactly, do you expect to have happen? Yes, it's their fault, and the recall is meant to address a problem with the vehicle. Unfortunately, that means that you'll have to get the car to dealer and have them fix it. They might provide a loaner, they might not - I suspect that will be up to the dealer to decide.
Besides I never oppose my wife's serious demands. She knows how to make food appear.
Even though I do most of the cooking in my household, I completely agree with the first part of the above statement.
A couple of years ago, the '05 Saturn VUE we owned stopped running about a mile from our house. Wouldn't restart. Had to have it towed to the dealership. They couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, so they returned it to us. The new '08 VUEs had just been released, so we picked up our car from the service side of the dealer, went over to the sales side, and made a deal. Took a loss on the '05, but we knew that going in. Wife loves the new car and is glad, for many reasons, that we made the deal.
If you get rid of the Avalon, you'll probably lose money on the transaction. I don't think there is a salesman here on this board that will disagree with that statement.
I don't see where you have a choice .. wife won't drive, nor ride in, the Avalon, so it's got to go. As boom noted above, Toyota won't buy it back, or cover the depreciation that's already taken place.
You either get it fixed and hope the wife will drive / ride in it again, or it goes.
I do hope everything turns out well for you in this difficult situation.
Recalls and mistakes happen. I think the chances of an accident are pretty remote (unless you get too much condensation on the brake pedal mechanism),
and I am sure they would tell you to stop driving the car if it were a likely problem of a big accident - don't want law suits!.
The best thing is to get it fixed as soon as possible for your own state of mind, and then it will be fine...if you can convince your wife.
Toyotas are one of the most reliable cars there is, and these things do happen.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When my wife says she's not riding in that car again she means it. That video scared both of us. We have 3 other cars and I guarantee she will not be in the Avalon again when she has a Yukon Denali that will not kill its occupants.
Even if I fixed it and begged her to get in it she would decline. That's how affected we both are from the documentary and revelation that Toyota lied "it's the floormats". We've been married 27 years and I know her. She's Done with that car.
To my wife, once a liar always a liar. Toyota has lost us. Thank goodness we can afford the loss and the depreciation beating. Like I said "it's not the money".
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Taking my time to fix a brand new vehicle is not going to happen.Their fault, their problem.
The provisions of your new car warranty and the recall are such that they will fix a problem for free. If you can't make the effort to drop it off at the dealership then really what do you expect them to do?
Yes it's their fault and their problem, and they're dealing with it by offering to fix it for you. So until you bring the car to them it's their fault but your problem.
And people have died in all makes and models before. So does that mean you won't ever drive a car again?
C'mon, let's be reasonable. I understand if your warranty or a recall somehow included extra compensation that you were being denied, but that's not the case, so once again either keep the car and get it fixed or sell it on your own (or trade it in).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
This could have just as easily happened to Honda.
Most recalls are a "tempest in a teapot". Your brake pedel will stop the car if some freak thing happens.
This is called "life". Things happen and Toyota will make sure you don't have a problem.
Or, you could dump the Toyota. Then what? Buy something else that suddenly get's recalled too.
Just get it in and have it looked at.
Before we get rid of a comfortable (albeit boring, IMO) & reliable car that we've had for over 3 years & that my wife likes, I want to know if (1) there is a problem, (2) exactly what that problem is & (3) what Toyota will do to fix it. My IT background has taught me not to act until I have the facts. Otherwise, I might make things worse.
Your wife's wishes should be honored - no question about that. No one should be forced to ride in a vehicle that he/she is afraid of. Use the Denali or, if you have to, rent a car. But don't dump the Avalon until you know more.
i'm going to do it as a to b to c, etc.
* = still in the family
74 duster coupe to
80 vw scirocco to
83 tbird turbo to
86 mustang gt to
88 tbird sport to
91 mustang gt vert*
76 capri to
83 f150 to
89 sho to
92 sho to
94 explorer to
97 explorer to
00 expedition to
02 explorer*
04 focus sedan to
07 fusion*
wife:
79 cutlass coupe to
83 celica to
87 bronco II to
91 explorer to
96 sho to
01 saab 9-5 wagon to
04 escape to*
09 escape*
I'm not asking for anything. I'll trade it in on an Acura, BMW or something nice. I just don't want "the problem" or the responsibility of passing it onto another person. That's why I'll trade to a dealer who can do with it what he wants and assume the problem.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I leased my KW (single axle 350 Cummins, Roadranger 9-speed) to Boat Transit Inc. (Costa Mesa) from Jan '78 to Apr '80, and drove it over 200K -- paid the bills & gave me a lot of pleasure. There's nothing quite like being paid to drive, if you're me. I owned sailboats from '73 to '77 and learned that hauling them all over the continent paid fairly well. I knew I-15/I-80 like the back of my hand and loved watching the crops in IA grow & go to harvest, as well as all the other changes along that route, among others.
Nothing quite like getting out of the KW at the yard and driving the 240-Z home -- those were the days.
If this is the case, it's probably best to lick your wounds, take the loss and move on.
I just hope that whatever you buy doesn't get recalled for some safety item down the road and this certainly could happen.
It sounded like you wanted compensation for the problem and/or for them to buy back the car and refund you the retail price.
I guess since you and your wife feel this way about the car then your best bet is to get something else. Keep in mind after the probelm is rectified (even if your car has a problem) you'd be getting rid of a perfectly good vehicle.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Yes, if you aren't comfortable then trade it in. But, I think it is like an airline scare, the day after one of the incidences is probably the safest day to fly...they are really checking! Once Toyota fixes the problem, it will remain probably one of the safest cars you could drive.
One auto analyst says Toyota grew too fast, they couldn't keep up with demand and let safety and quality slide. The floor mats and this gas pedal issue are two separate things, so the floor mat is easy to resolve, the gas pedal issue has only affected one car in millions. You are probably safer driving your Avalon than walking to the corner store.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
He's probably going to be hit in the pocket pretty hard. Avalons, while very nice cars have never been big sellers. The store will probably be hesitant to pay big bucks for it for that reason.
The service manager was impressed by one thing. He noticed that my "information center message" was tuned to MPG. I'm getting 24.9 mpg on the convertible. That's pretty good for a full sized car. I'll have to ask Snake what he is getting now.
Though it arrived too late, I appreciate the advice about the locks.
Richard
You mean Americans don't do this now? I need to be reprogrammed. :surprise: :shades:
Richard
Richard
Richard
Those things happen. For example; one day my Dad called me and said he couldn't get his car to start. He said he couldn't even get it to turn over. Since it was fairly new, I had to wonder.
I drove from my house on one end of town, to his house on the other side of town. I sat in the car, turned the key, and it started right up!
He wasn't putting his foot on the brake pedal when trying to start it. :confuse:
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
If not 'fulltime', then what's it called? Variable Torque Management (VTM) isn't much of a description. And only Honda experts would know what it is if I said 'VTM-4' system.
Something similar happened to me back in the early '70s after I rented a car at the Winnipeg airport and drove to my first appointment. When I came out to start the car later, it wouldn't even turn over. Turned out to be the newfangled interlock that prevented starting a manual-transmission-equipped car (back then such things were actually in rental fleets) unless the clutch was depressed.
In my world, as long as a transmission was in neutral, it is safe to hit the starter -- not so in nanny-world. What had worked fine for the first ~70 years of the automobile age was no longer sufficient to protect people from themselves.
Interesting (to me, at least) that, even though today's cars won't start unless the selector is in neutral or park, it's still necessary to mash down on the brake before anything will happen. When that interlock system fails, it's about a $250 fix & in the interim you get to stick a screwdriver down the special hole on the console to get the car to do anything. When the clutch interlock fails, you don't even have that option.
How long ago was this. Even my 1988 GMC van has that feature.
Strangely, brand new school buses don't. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
To quote from my post, ". . .back in the early '70s. . ."
Had to go back inside and ask them why the car wouldn't start.. She knew it was something she was doing (or not doing), but just couldn't figure it out..
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Basically, the system detects when 4WD is needed and engages when necessary.
It is not in 4WD all of the time.
Anyhow the Explorer and a few other fords used to have an option on them that was a small voice recorder on the driver side visor. You could push a button and record a 30 second note to yourself. You know, pick up bread, go to the bank etc, etc. Well we also have an option called homelink. It is where you can program your garage door openers and home security system into the car and just press a button on the visor.
One day this lady comes in and said she bought this Explore from this guy and could I answer a question. I said sure so she got in the car and asked how do I record a message.
Told her that her car was not equipped with the recorder just the homelink. She got red in the face and said "You mean to tell me I have been talking to this visor for two weeks for nothing? I am gonna kill him"
Good question. Tooling around town I am getting about 22 MPG (no highway driving). When we went out west this last summer all highway driving cruise control set to 70-75, flat land of the great plains I managed about 32-33 MPG. Not bad for a car with an EPA estiment of 29 MPG highway.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't feel embarrassed. There are several other things that happen that most people don't think about checking.
People have had their rear doors set to child-proof so the inside handle won't work. On ours the switch is on the corner of the actual door and apparently my sleeve caught it and pulled it to the child-proof setting. (That's on rear doors which your convertible doesn't have.) :confuse:
And there's always the valet switch for the trunk so that the driver's trunk unlock button won't work if valet switch is turned to protect. :mad:
And the automatic headlights which can be controlled by the manual buttons on H-body GMs cause some confusion. Some people try to use both systems and end up not being able to get the lights to go off.
I'm sure there are other examples that salespeople and the car knowledgeable posters here can add.
And an example on the dealer side..., my 03 leSabre has automatic windshield wipers that sense rain (or oil smears) on the windshield and cycle the wipers once or go to low or high speed. When traveling from Nashville, I noticed the headlights were on and I couldn't get them to go off. Took by dealer and it wasn't doing it. Same thing happened again and took to dealer again. They had the car a day and then told me that it took their tech a while to figure it out, but the headlights are on even if the wipers are set to the "sense" setting and aren't operating. So if you don't want the headlights on, you must turn the wipers to the OFF rather than leaving them at the "sense moisture" range.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My kids Saturn's the shift interlock failed, the real bad thing about that is that the car doesn't have that override on it. Talk about a bad design in a car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Many years ago me and a friend of mine and a friend of his (his friend is the one I mentioned bought the Pontiac two seater convertible I mentioned a while back) went to Indiana to get milk (yeah, thats it milk, we didn't go to get fireworks to bring back to Illinois as that would have been illegal). This is when I had the van which we took. Well my friends friend got in the back and I switched the child proof switch to on. When we got to our destination me and my friend stood outside the van mocking him for not being able to open the door.
I opened the door from the outside got on and said "here its easy" and showed him how to open the door. Of course when I climbed in I very carefully switched it to the off position so when I did it the door opened. I then got out telling him to try again and as I did I carefully switched it back to on.
He finally figured out what we were doing.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Richard
Richard
lemko....I don't know if it was just the STS I had, or if it was something more widespread. However, I got a real experience dealing with Cadillac and their corporate personnel. Now, this was when GM wasn't in the turmoil they're in now. But, they were arrogant and condescending with me regarding having the rear window blow out. Glad it never happened when my late Mother was driving it, as it would have shortened her life considerably considering how much it scared me. First time, I was about 1/2 mile from my home. It was winter time. It was normally garaged all the time, but this particular time I had to leave the car in the driveway as I had the garage filled with building materials as I was building a rec room/home theater in my basement.
As such, it had some frost on the back window. Most of the heating/colling in the STS was automatic. Set a temp and it did its best to keep that temp in the cabin. While this is from memory, I think if you put the heating unit with front defrost on, it automatically turned on the rear defrost, too.
I'm driving along and KAPOW....little shards of rounded glass goes flying all over the place. I did indeed think someone had taken a shot at me at the time....except, there wasn't any car or person within a mile of me at the time. It was still under warranty, and when I called the local dealership, they did send a tow truck, as well as gave me a Caddy loaner to use.
They put in a new rear window, and did their best to clean up the glass inside. For weeks I was still finding little round glass pebbles in the interior, though. They couldn't explain what happened, except that maybe the glass wasn't up to spec.
About a week later, it happened again. This time, I wasn't in the car, but had started it to warm it up for a few minutes, putting on the defroster again, before driving away. I get in the car to drive away after warm up, and notice no rear window, and a lot more glass. I call Cadillac service again. Again, they towed it and left me with a loaner. This time, they had it 3 weeks to identify the problem. They say they found the cause and fixed it....something to do with the battery cables (I didn't buy that explanation, but had no choice).
3rd, and scariest time, it happened while I was on the interstate. Same routine....KAPOW...glass flies everywhere and no rear window (except for a little around the rear window frame). This time it was snowing, and snow's blowing all over the inside of the car. I call GM's 800 service line. Tell them what happened...gave them my vin# and they pull up the records. I wait, and wait, for a tow truck. After about 90 minutes one shows up and off we go to the dealership together.
I'm livid. Service manager is the one that suggested I was shot at. 3 times? Pulleeze! They kept it for 3 more weeks. By this time, I asked to speak to the regional Caddy rep. He's the one who suggested that I warm the car up before turning on the RR defroster. Did that the 2nd time, already. Sorry, not good enough.
They fought me tooth and nail to buy back the car. BBB was the arbitrator and after about 60 days, negotiated an agreement to put me in a new car. Didn't want another Caddy. At the time, I was towing and hauling a lot. We agreed that I could choose any GM make of the same value. That's how I came to get the Tahoe.
Never again will I even set foot in a Cadillac dealership.
As a side note piggy back on "joel", just sold my little company to a much bigger company. Part of our agreement is I'm to stay on for at least 12 months (longer if we both agree). While not the car biz, looks like I'm heading up this tech company's sales, marketing and technical support teams. I've got a boss, again.