Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Richard
I used to be able to do a good proper delivery of a new car in about 30 minutes, and that was covering all the features.
Now if I deliver a new car that has SYNC and Voice Activated Navigation it takes me about an hour to an hour and a half depending on how tech savy the customer is, and I still don't get everything covered.
A. Will not give you the time
B. Will not retain the info.
I usually try for a 2 stage delivery. Go over everything at delivery but not in depth unless it is an item of importance or concern to the customer. Then, a week or two later have them come back to answer questions and go over fuzzy areas after they have driven the car awhile. The goal is that they know their car and we get a good CSI.
You well know how I feel about Cadillacs. I've told my story here about bumpers falling off, headlights falling off, doors that wouldn't open (unlocked of course), constant computer problems (heater/AC functions reversed), power seats that wouldn't move, etc. What a :lemon: !!!
Still, it was the arrogance and condescending attitude of the regional representatives that just burned me alive---whether on the telephone or in person. I was constantly made to feel that I had mistreated or had not taken care of my Cadillac. I grew weary of the remark, "No other owner has encountered such problems." I had a final meeting scheduled with the Cadillac dealer and the regional representative. I decided to play the role of a complete horse's [non-permissible content removed], using their same condescending attitude,. I put on my camel hair topcoat, my matching European driving cap, my alligator shoes, and all of my gold jewelry.
I began the meeting by issuing a profound apology. I told them both that a gentleman of my statue, up bringing, and exquisite taste had made a grievous error. I went on to say that I had purchased a cheap, poorly made, ineffective, overrated automobile that dared to advertise itself as a luxury vehicle for those with discriminating taste. I assured them that my mistake was not purchasing a Mercedes, a Town Car, or a Jaguar all of which lived up to the high standards of the automobile industry. I extended to them my deepest sympathy for their having to work for and represent such a second rate manufacturer. Finally, I assured them that the sun would not set that day and find me the owner of such a piece of inferior trash. They both just sat there and stared at me. I told them that they would have to excuse me because I had an appointment with a dealer to purchase a REAL automobile.
It was that afternoon that I purchased my Explorer. It was actually a Ford salesman who wanted the Cadillac for his wife who was a real estate agent. You know that I use the "3-5 Hour Method" when buying a car. It certainly worked that time. As I was about to "walk", the dealer offered me another $2k for that piece of junk. One of his salesman (not the one who sold me the Explorer) had been outside looking at my Caddy. He told his boss that he wanted it. Did I lose on the deal after only 18 months of ownership? Not much. I was very, very fortunate. I never saw the Ford dealer or salesman after the purchase. They went out of business the following month. The Cadillac dealer went out of business the next year. I have often wondered what happened to the Caddy. I'm sure that the salesman and his wife had problems with it. Then again, maybe not. Just about everything on the car had been replaced or repaired.
We have a Cadillac dealership here. It's near an old inn where we often have Sunday dinner. Each time that we ride by the dealership, my wife remarks that she never wants another Cadillac. On that we both agree.
Richard
Richard
Richard
"C" - the car?
"C" - the keys?
"C" - You!
I usually show my customers enough to get them started and offer to help later if they don't understand something.
Some customers like a long, detailed delivery (I don't!) and others just want me to hand them the keys so they can get going!
Just to offer support for this other perspective. My wife and I were in a pretty bad accident on 1/5/10 returning home from a wonderful Christmas vacation spent with my folks/family. On I-94, 25 miles west of Ann Arbor our 02 Toyota Rav4 hit black ice, spun and our rear end likely hit the back corner of a semi (although no one was there when paramedics and the state patrol arrived) and spun into the ditch. Our car was totaled, but the contents--including my wife and I were for the most part in tact. We're both recuperating and I'll like need some rehab for my back, but it could have been much, much worse.
All the body shop folks said that we were lucky to (sort of) walk away and said that the car did exactly what it was supposed to do to mitigate the impact forces and limit damage to the occupants--even though the impact was at the rear and thus no airbags deployed.
The most painful aspect, however, was that one of our two dogs escaped through the smashed rear window. Amazingly, last week he was found wandering just a few miles from the crash after two weeks spent outside in the MI winter. He had lost 17 of his 58 lbs., but was otherwise in good shape and is being fed and cared for by my folks until we can make the 1000 mile journey to get him.
We're both so thankful and feel blessed that our car protected us as well as it did given the speed and severity of the impact. New cars certainly will continue to have recall issues, but by-and-large they are very well engineered and built and even our 02 had considerable safety equipment (although my skull wishes it would have had side impact bags).
Despite Toyota's current recall woes we believe that they--and all the current manufacturers--are building very safe cars.
Gogiboy (very sore, but very happy to be writing this report)
So the lady was talking to the homelink system all this time huh?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
A few minutes earlier I'll activate the child locks on both rear doors, and while other salesguys are watching I'll ask a newbie to sit in the back quickly to see how much headroom is there explaining that I had a customer earlier was complaining of limited headroom. Once they hop in I'll close the door and thank them. Then it's fun watching them trying to get out, or climb over the front seats in a suit.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Old story:
I once was showing a used car that's been sitting on our lot for about 4 months :sick: to a client, and I started it up to warm it up, stood outside, and closed the door.
The automatic door locks locked, and the only key we had for it was in the ignition. A bit embarassed I used a door stop wedge and a coat hanger to pry the door so that I can stick the coathanger in to unlock the door in front of the customer. I was getting a bit rough with this automobile but had to open it before it ran out of gas and before the customer lost interest in it.
I ended up opening it in front of them and we took it for a spin.
They ended up buying the vehicle and the guy paid cash for it on the spot without even bargaining one dollar. The couple were in their 60s but they weren't a "couple" because when I asked her if her husband is coming on a test drive she said that thge guy wasn't her husband.
So I think when he wrote out a check on the spot at my desk for the full amount it was him trying to impress the nice lady more than anything.
It worked out great for all three of us because I made good commission, the lady got a car, and the guy showed off how much dough he had.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'm glad you fared as well as you did!
The male friend brought a clipboard with 5 pages of details that he checked on the new Honda himself. Everything from the oil to panel gaps, to paint, to undercarriage, to tire tread depth etc. I think it was a bit excessive imo but whatever rocked his boat.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
A Honda customer once told me that she's not sure of she wants to buy a Honda because her friend was in an accident and the car was totalled and written off.
In her opinion the car should not crumple so easy but rather should show minimal damage after an accident if it was designed to be safe.
I asked her if her friend walked away from that crash; she said yes.
I explained to her then that the car did what it was supposed to do: absorb the forces of the impact by crumpling around the occupants so that they can walk away.
i'm glad everything turned out ok for you Gogiboy and that your dog was found safe. Consider it a post Christmas miracle.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I wonder how and if GM's attitude has changed since they're now using my tax dollars on loan to stay afloat? If and when my Tahoe changes ownership, I doubt very seriously I'll ever buy another GM vehicle based on that experience.
How your situation, as well as mine should have gone....."Mr Richard, Mr GG....we apologize for your inconvenience. We have no idea why you're suffering such problems with your Cadillac. How can we make you happy?". Something along those lines would have worked for me....and probably for you. But....NO!
Years later, the experience still steams me. :mad:
The new CTS is supposed to be a very good car. Won't find me shopping for one, though.
verdugo...thanks for the well wishes. My little business needed to expand and grow. That meant I would have had to borrow a bunch of money to do it right, it would have cost a lot.....more than I was willing to risk. Maybe if I was more confident in the current economic outlook, I may have done it. Now? I'm much more adverse to that type of risk.
It was tough to admit to myself that I took it as far as I was capable. The company I sold to is a good company, with trustworthy people guiding it. Been in discussions and negotiations with them since right after Thanksgiving. It's going to be interesting working for someone else, again. Although I'm going to have input on strategy and direction, the buck no longer stops with me. And, I'm going to have to justify decisions I make to someone else. It's a relief in some ways. In other ways I wished I had the cajones to have taken it to the next level.
As the old adage goes, the only thing constant is change.
On the SYNC I make sure there phone is synced and the address book is down loaded and I always add my cell phone # in there address book as "Joel help me" and tell them if they are ever confused or need help just hit the call button and say "Joel help me" and explain I am never more then a phone call away.
That helps them if they ever need it plus it is a smooth way for them to always have my name and number if they want to refer a customer.
I hope it wasn't from the cost of fixing up your Cadillac you traded in... grin.
> I grew weary of the remark, "No other owner has encountered such problems."
I think that permeates most car companies. Lots of people with with problems in US and foreign brands are told that same thing, along with that whatever they are complaining about is their fault.
> I have often wondered what happened to the Caddy. I'm sure that the salesman and his wife had problems with it.
If you have the VIN number from old records (or your insurance agent may have archival records) you might be able to check its existence as an owned vehicle. In Ohio the VIN or the title number gets you the info that the car is titled in Ohio and a little more, but not the owner's name. It may include the county... Of course if you know a policeman who will run the info for you... probably illegal... but.
>vI put on my camel hair topcoat, my matching European driving cap, my alligator shoes, and all of my gold jewelry
I get this mental image of richard64 looking like an urban gangsta with all the gold jewelry...
> mistake was not purchasing a Mercedes, a Town Car, or a Jaguar
Those also might have had problematic models.
My opinion is that your dealership was a major part of the problem. A good dealer and good technicians can fix a lot. I have loved my Buick dealer through the years because minor things got fixed. It's too bad your Caddy dealership didn't operate the store the same way. The fact that three brothers in their 50s and 60s operated the store, inherited from their father who founded it, and that sons, daughters, and other relatives were all involved in learning the business from being service writers, tow truck drivers, and then up made a big difference in how they saw any problems and how they solved them with their customers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
At first I was going to suggest that you had angered Gibbs from NCIS but he would have got you on the first shot. :P Man, you were very reasonable for the trouble you went through. If someone put me through that I might do some shooting.
BTW congrats on selling your business. You always impressed me as someone who would always land on his feet.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You southern guys are nice. I've never had a salesman offer to show me anything...ever.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I see on the CCBA that you bought a 91 Mr2. I have a 1992 Mr2 with 60,100 miles on the clock. It's not the turbo version, however, but I have babied it. I'm the second owner and now have owned it longer than the first owner. They're really fun cars. Unfortunately, I have a real hard time getting into and out of cars at the moment and the MR2 requires even more contortion. I never realized how much bending and twisting are required just to get into a car seat.
I'll follow up shortly with our buying experience for the Rav4's replacement. No real horror stories. There does seem to be a lot of motivation to make sales although perhaps maybe that is always the case. All the salesmen we spoke with were super cordial, but some were certainly more knowledgeable than others.
Gogiboy
A price I was quoted for my Eclipse was $1600 installed (no thanks) so your price wasn't bad. A woman I work with is a seamstress and she could do if very cheap if you were in the area. She also does a lot of canvas work for boat owners so you might check local boat clubs for a similar crafts person.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'm not sure if I am violating Edmund Forum rules, but here is a link to a story written about the circumstances surrounding the recovery of our treasured canine family member.
I guess it's only marginally on-topic in that it involves an automobile crash as the impetus for the rest of the saga. A woman who volunteers at the animal clinic where our dog was eventually taken wrote the article.
This is the link:
http://www.annarbor.com/community/pets/lost_dog_survives_car_accident_and_two_we- eks_in_michigan_winter/
If the host(s) feel this post has to be deleted I understand.
Gogiboy
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I had a similiar story where I heard a miniature schnauzer yelping in the middle of the night when he was attacked by a coyote on our sidewalk in a residential neighbourhood in the middle of the city. I came out and shooed the coyote away and saw the lifeless doggie on the sidewalk. I took his body so that the coyote wouldn't come back for him (it was waiting half a block away for me to leave and snatch him away) and covered the schnauzer in blankets and placed it in an area outside inaccessible to the coyote. His dog tag contact info only contained an ID# and his clinic's number which I contacted and left a message as to his location and what has happened.
In the morning his remains were missing so I assumed the clinic got my message and passed it on to the owners who retrieved the poor doggie's body. Well it did get my message but the owner called and said he couldn't find his schnauzer. Then he called 30 minutes later saying they found him wandering in the alley! :surprise:
The little schnauzer was barely alive so they took him to the clinic, but unfortunatley he passed away a day later from an infection to his injuries. I felt so bad that I didn't help him more that night but the owners thanked me for doing what I did as they got to spend an extra day with their beloved pet before he died.
To make it topic realted I was selling Hondas at the time
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'm glad to hear that all of you (including your dogs) are ok. Like you said, it could've been much worse.
Gogiboy's comments reinforce a point by driver100 a while back that safety improvements are worth upgrading for.
The male friend brought a clipboard with 5 pages of details that he checked on the new Honda himself.
Glad to see graphic guy now limits himself to the purchase portion of the transaction :P
Years later, the experience still steams me.
This is not car related, but customer service related (so hosts, no hard feelings if you delete it). My wife and I got stuck in Dallas on the way to San Francisco on United. The local customer service agents were, not only incompetent, but rude. My wife wrote to United to complain, and today we got two $400 coupons. More importantly, they apologized profusely. United is off my s**t list.
no way that story is getting removed.
you are very lucky the back of your vehicle took the blow.
the crush zone from the back to the front is a lot longer than the other way around.
OK, I'm ony kidding.
Mostly.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The article about your beloved dog brought tears to my eyes. We lost our dog to bladder cancer three months ago. The pain is still with us. I can truly identify with you and your wife as to the panic that you must have felt. How wonderful that your dog is now safe and sound. It is also gratifying that a good soul reached out to help. Human nature is basically good. People do try to help others.
Keep us posted on your new purchase. You both deserve a nice car.
Richard
The VIN number is an excellent idea in order to track the car's existence. I'll have to see if I can find it in my car folder. Thanks for the tip.
Richard
The driver's side window kept separating from the channel/track & would get stuck. I had the glass/channels/clips replaced numerous times over the course of a 2 year period. Most of this 2 year period was when I was in college in Ithaca, NY.
I had numerous problems with the AC. O rings & pressure switch - freon too.
The worst of all was the resale value. I sold it in 1999 with just over 60K miles for $3K. One of my friends had a 1993 Honda Accord that he purchased around the same time as my car. With the same amount of miles, he got rid of his car around the same time, fo $12K.
Joel: Welcome back! I wish you (& Ford) the best of luck. That Fusion is a really sharp car, they did a fantastic job with the 2010 Mustang (and the 5.0 coming out in 2011), and I'm sure the new Focus is going to be THE small car to beat. I'm a die hard import guy and am really impressed with Ford's product line.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
This is the website for OHIO vehicles. Does your state have a similar site?
Searching for some I come across the faux sites that use names to make themselves sound official but they aren't. They are selling information.
I found this one in that category--might depend on the fee...http://www.license-plate-search.org/North-Carolina-license-plate-search.ph- - p
I found this one that looks officially part of the state of NC: http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/other_services/recordsstatistics/copyVehicleRec.html
$11 fee and I suspect if the vehicle is out of state, they'll say there's no info. The previous commercial site said they can search all states...?
Do you have a friend who's quick with computers? Or someone who has a quick check that car dealers use that might verify the car exists, such as AutoCheck ? Got a friend who's a car salesman who might run it for you. You might get info or get nothing of use. I might even ask my insurance salesman--he knows people and might offer someone who could run the VIN for me.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for a replacement for the Rav4, we set an upper spending limit of $19K, of which roughly $11.5K is the insurance settlement. Having read and participated on this forum for years I really have come to admire the folks who keep the deal simple. Thus we decided that there would be no loan.
We narrowed our list to several used and one new vehicle. We looked at mostly 08 CR-Vs, Rav4s, an 09 Subaru Forester, and a 10 Scion xB (admittedly different from the others). This was to be my wife's car so I let her make the final decision. The CR-Vs and Rav4s have grown bigger in the intervening years--and have added important safety features like stability and traction control, side curtain airbags. We came very close to buying an 08 Rav4 w/36K miles, it was a 4WD, V6, which, in the end we decided was just more vehicle than we needed in OK. It was quite peppy, but a bit worn and stained on the interior for a two-year old car. We certainly didn't expect perfection, but it did seem cosmetically rough. It was certified.
The manager met my price, but wanted us to finance through Toyota and then pay it off immediately when we got our insurance check. He said that writing the loan would help them make an extra few hundred bucks and allow him to sell the car for the price I offered. We didn't necessarily object to that, but preferred putting down a significant deposit and letting them hold the car until we got our check (roughly a week). For some reason that was a no-go, perhaps because they felt we could cold feet in the intervening week. In the end my wife said no, partly because of the car's cosmetic deficiencies, partly, the limited warranty and partly a (misplaced?) sense of obligation to buy local since we were in OKC and live roughly 70 miles from this dealership.
Our local dealer's used Rav4 prices were considerably higher so I wasn't in favor of just giving them the business. Strangely--at least to me--she ended up really liking the Scion, which, of course, has the profit already built in, but allows the buyer to get the same price at any Scion dealership. The Scion has all the latest safety features, has the same cubic feet cargo area as our old Rav4, was a couple of hundred dollars less than the best deal I negotiated on the 08 Rav4 and only lacks the 4wd, which we like in MI, but isn't essential in OK. She also misses the higher seating of the Rav4.
Meanwhile we got a 3/36 warranty, plus 5-year powertrain, a couple of free oil change/tire rotations and they let us take the car despite only putting down the deposit minus the insurance check. I guess having our other cars serviced there must be worth something or maybe it's small town hospitality. Everyone was very courteous, no hard-sell on an extended warranty. The F & I guy even said we have 12K or 12 months to make up our mind.
Our local Toyota dealership is run so differently than the local Honda, Hyundai, Ford, Chevy and GM outfits. Everybody that works there has been there for years. The first salesman we spoke with made sure that we were eventually redirected to the salesman we originally made phone contact with, so that he could make the sale. He even said that it took him 3 years to get over to the Toyota Dealership from his previous sales position at another dealership and that the salesmen looked out for one another.
I didn't envision getting another car for at least 5 or 6 years, but many of us eventually contend with those bumps (or slippery spots) in the road of life. I have to chuckle that my 50+ year old wife went for the Scion, which is clearly aimed at a younger demographic. In 04 when we bought the Rav4, I liked the Element, but she didn't feel that a middle-aged woman like her could be seen in something like that. Ours is not to reason why...
Gogiboy
http://money.cnn.com/video/fortune/2009/12/29/f_hyundai_success_story.fortune/
Thought I'd also mention, that something I always suspected, Hyundai does offer it's dealers "secret" incentives that don't show up on sites like Edmunds. That's why I believe you can fairly easily buy a Hyundai or Kia for less than invoice.
Thanks for any advice.
Gogiboy
2 weeks ago, I purchased a new Infiniti G37x, and it was the best experience I have ever had...polite, professional, low stress and fun!
I have also been helping my sister buy a new Hyundai - and today I had the wost experience you can imagine. High pressure, high stress and very shady. It starts with the car having a 'market adjustment fee' of $4,000...I should have known to run when I saw that. But we negotiated through that, thought we had an agreement....P&S comes over and its wrong, they tried to sneak in a few things. I pointed this out and was gonna walk...but then they apologize, print up a new one that seems correct. I spend 5 minutes doing the math, going through it - its OK, so my sister signs. Car is brought around, gassed up, plates are changed...and then they bring another P&S over - handwritten - to sign. This one isn't detailed or itemized, its very rough.
The numbers seem to be the same, but its tough to tell. I ask why there is a second form...they say that the need one for their records. I say you have a carbon of the last....I say, if you wanna fill this out exactly like the last...number for number...then she will sign, but only then. Manager gets all huffy - says this is stupid, deal is off........so we just laugh and walk out.
I'm not sure what the point of the second form was....maybe treating sales price differently as a tax scam - collecting different tax amounts? Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks,