Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

I have been off since Saturday and had to catch up on over 100 messages.

Didn't get the Fusion we ordered from Thrifty, they substituted a RAV4. Glad it is fairly safe after gogboys experience (what a thing to go through, but glad it all worked out fairly well). It gets you there in fair comfort, but overall, I think I prefered the Fusion we had last year.

Well, lots going on.....so I will try to keep up.

One thing I was thinking regarding those cheezy Hyundai ads. Back home we have Kia ads and it looks like a salesman who is dancing around the showroom to the Maniac song. I think these ads do one thing very well.....they help you remember the dealer when there are so many ads on. They are tacky too, so probably turn some people off.

fezo

I'll be the second to volunteer!

isell's holding a great deal for me if I ever travel 3,000 miles to buy a car.....

isellhondas

Come on out, Steve! Just you though.

fezo

I knew that would be your answer!

I would love to do such a thing. Don't see it in the near future but hey...

jipster

car buying road trip? We could gather up richard, yourself, oldfarmer, snake, jipster, fezo, imid, myself...and whomever else wanted to join us. Then, go visit brentwood, isell, boom, joel, and some of the other dealership people who post here.......We can go car shopping from "sea to shining sea".

yeah... I'm down for a car buying road trip. Sounds like fun, and I will be close to buying another car any day/year now.

I'll play (that's play), the obnoxious grinder that no salesman can resist. I'll bring a sack lunch into the dealerships, test drive every car on the lot 2 or 3 times, then enter into a 6 hour negotiation session... while taking notes on salesmen technique, knowledge and wardrobe. The salesman that can go the longest without throwing me out wins my business. Let's start with isell. I hear Honda sales are down quite a bit this year... he's bored... and I bet he misses me? :surprise:

gg, if Edmunds doen't have the bankroll to finance the trip, I'll pick up the tab. Will make great material for my second book. :shades:

houdini1

Just heard on the news that Saab has been sold to Spyker and will not be going away !!

audia8q

I'm sure this has been discussed but I would like get some feedback....

If I posted a simple, no haggle selling price plus all available incentives on every car in stock....posted a break down of interest rates based on credit scores and deal equity at every desk....gave the "real" trade in appraisal number up front and had salespeople that got paid on volume and customer satisfaction, not gross profit. Salespeople also had lots of training on product knowledge and had the ability to answer questions adn operate every feature of every car sold. Salespeople also have the power the handle the complete transactions without any hand off to managers (other than the used car appraisal)...appraisal managers bring the customers along on the trade in appraisal and explain how the trade in figure is determined and last but not least never waiver from the integrity of the process...

lets assume the pricing on new cars would be in the $100-400 over invoice range...Yes, the price can be beat by the nearest same brand dealer that is 25-30 miles away but they have a $100 higher doc fee and a reputation for the full run around treatment during the negotiations....

would you buy from this type of dealership?? why or why not.

Thanks for the input.

graphicguy

Forgot to include "driver" and "houdini" in our band of merry car buying troupe.

Craig....what? No love for the rest of us?

jipster....all you have to do is to give me a teeny-tiny footnote in your next book (and pay all expenses). I'll be there.

Maybe include Kirstie, tidester, and kyfdx as chaperones? Then again, maybe not!

On a car buying note.....mentioned that I was using this new fangled internet to do some car shopping. I actually submitted my request via the AMEX car buying service. They had two dealerships, both about 100 miles from me (Columbus, OH), who participate.

Quotes came back with the seal of approval from AMEX that the dealerships MUST adhere to the quotes. Was pretty excited by one of them since the quote was about $1,000 less than I had anticipated on an Acura TL. It reached about $100 into holdback, while deducting the current $2,000 incentive, also.

Was getting ready to set up an appointment to "strike a deal" with the AMEX quote in hand. Decided to call them first to see the color ranges they had. They had indeed acknowledged they received my info from AMEX. But, they didn't have a black one (funny, it showed that they had several black ones on their current inventory list at their dealer site). Further, they said they would not honor the AMEX number (which was supposedly provided by the dealership itself).

While I'm out nothing, I did quizz their "internet manager" as to why they would provide AMEX with a bogus quote to begin with since they were supposed to adhere to it according the AMEX's Ts&Cs? He had no answer ,but did invite me to drive on up and make a deal on a black TL.

"Wait a minute. You just told me you didn't have any?"

SILENCE!

Called AMEX to complain. They stated that the dealership had to adhere to the quote and asked if I wanted them to intervene. I don't see how they can force any dealership to do anything, unless they have a signed contract with them. Maybe they do, but who wants to get involved in that sort of mess.

Ummm....no! I don't want to do business with that sort of dealership.

Apparently AMEX's service isn't as iron clad as they proclaim it to be.

Bottom line, it looks like AMEX's car buying program is little more than a lead generation tool for dealerships.

So far my internet shopping has not gone nearly as well as when I just go to a dealership to strike a deal in person.

jayrider

Went to the dodge dealer first. Must have been a sales meeting -- no one on the floor. Sat in some stuff but didn't have the charger inside and too cold outside. Saw one on the lot -- trunk opening a bit small for old folks to heave in the golf clubs so probably off the list. Hyundai was next -- salesman outside smoking. Grizzled older dude -- put out his smoke and followed me in. After chatting for a few minutes -- I really liked him. Been there 15 years -- told me which cars were the good leases and which weren't. There may be something there -- kinda liked the new tuscon. No packs on the cars and my impression was that if he wrote up the deal -- that was it. Didn't talk price but I have to say I had fun -- it would be worth paying a teeny bit more for the show. I loved that guy.
The toyota store had mature sales staff and the gent I talked with was polite -- sat in a 33k prius. Don't drive enough to warrant a hybrid. Roomy though and I like the hatchback. Venza wasn't much different than my murano.The honda store was next. Wanted to check out the the accord crosstour -- none in the showroom but the fit was a blast to check out. Only problem is that there was no armrest for the passanger seat. Would need leather and the other dealers said about 1k for nice stuff. The honda sales crew must have pegged me as just a looker -- no one approached and since I didn't have any questions -- in and out.
Mazda CX7 was bigger than I thought and the salesman was knowledgeable and with no push. I could sense he wanted to sell me one but never commented. He was experienced enough to believe me when I said I was just looking.
Spent a lot of time at the bmw store-- sales mgr was knowledgeable and even took me for a ride in a 07 328xi wagon. It was real nice -- first bmw ride for me- Still think the new 5 series sedan would fit better. May look into leasing a service loaner if the deal is right.
All in all interesting car possibilities and friendly respectful folks made for a nice few hours.
Need to check out audi again and that new mb E 350 needs to be perused.
having a while to wait will work in my favor because there aren't any decent lease deals with the new model mercedes. May loosen up next year --- or not.
Gonna pass on the road trip this time around. Send me a postcard.

graphicguy

audia...haven't seen you in awhile.

To answer your question, once the negotiation portion is over, I think most car buyers view that they're done. F&I is normally an afterthought.

Personally, I deal with people I trust. If I get the deal I'm looking for at the negotiation table, I'm not done yet. F&I fees are the next hurdle.

Given your proposition, I'd be all over your deals, since you're up front. I may very well be in the minority, however.

isellhondas

Dan, with only a couple of exceptions, I would welcome all of you into our store or even my home. A lot of good people here.

As far as HOSTS, just Kirstie!

jayrider

Isell, really liked the Fit. Is there a trim that offers a left arm rest for the passenger seat ?

mako1a

About the road trip to see Hondas at isells store...

Take my Avalon. Speedo goes to 160. If the roads are clear and you get the gas pedal to launch mode you guys (and Kirstie) could be there in just a few hours.

alamocity

I know of one dealership here that operates under a somewhat similiar philosophy and it works out quite well for them, just wish other dealerships would offer that. I'm not a grinder by any stretch of the imagination and don't mind paying a little extra for the vehicle as long as I know that I'm getting a fair price and don't have to deal with things being pushed on me that I'm not interested in and don't have to spend hours getting the deal done.

isellhondas

A dealer installed armrest with storage is available.

I've seen a couple installed and they are pretty slick.

jayrider

Thanks isell, it seemed strange that there was no rest. You know -- adding leather with heat would make it a real comfy place--- lots of fun and so many ways to configure the storage -- could save a little $ off the price of a e350. The price is pretty solid -- maybe 4-500 off msrp so not much worry where you buy. Who knows ?????

audia8q

as much of an old school guy I can be,...Im probably heading into the one price direction. There is a small honda dealer in my area that went to one price a few years back and today they are the largest in the state and the CSI is thru the roof. I have spoken to 6 one price stores that rep my brand and they all say it was the best thing they have ever done...the initial cost was high and the profits dropped for a bit but once the word got out their volume went up by large amounts compared to the market....of course some people will drive 30 miles each way, haggle and grind for 3 hours to save $200 then spend another 2 hours in the finance office getting sold deer whistles and carbon credits (the latest in the finance world) which is fine and I won't make every deal....but in todays world I think more people want the transaction to be simple, quick, transparent and respectful and will pay a resonable amount for this...not thousands but maybe $200-$400 more and my volume goes up and my csi is strong which leads to customer retention, referrals and good word of mouth. Nobody wants to hear that their neighbor just bought the same car and paid $1200 less.

A big aspect is the finance end of things....ask most salespeople to explain finance rates and the circus music starts to play while the flim flam explination begins....so why not just post it with the details. either the customer qualifies or not. Also, many folks dont realize that starting next Jan dealers will be required to disclose the customers credit score along with a graph that shows how they rank compared to other consumers...Most bad consumer surveys are related to the finance dept,

verdugo

would you buy from this type of dealership?? why or why not

I would. I bet most of the guys here would too. The only problem is that we don't represent the general public. And they won't go for it.

To prove my point. I wanted to sell a camcorder before Xmas. They were going for around $500~$550 on ebay. I decided to try craigslists first (local, free). I got a couple of emails offering to buy it for $400. I listed it on eBay and it sold for $600.

fezo

Yep. That's just how I'd like it.

Unlike jipster some people around here I'm not into squeezing nickles. I want a fair price and generally within a couple hundred of target will do the trick every time.

Last purchase I felt like I needed a long shower to wash away the experience. Shame on me for still pulling the trigger.

snakeweasel

car buying road trip? We could gather up richard, yourself, oldfarmer, snake, jipster, fezo, imid, myself...and whomever else wanted to join us.

I'll go only if I can walk into the dealerships and yell "Who wants to sell a car today". :shades:

As for car buying road trips I will be in the middle of 1.2 million square feet of automotive bliss in about three weeks.

graphicguy

audia....I think you'll be surprised how well your proposal may work out. Some are really intimidated by walking into the showroom. Show them the numbers. Here's what we're doing. If they want a dog and pony show at "the desk" and in F&I, there are plenty of places that will give that to them. Plus, I'll bet your sales team will move more iron as they aren't going to be wasting so much time doing the "if we do this, will you do that" routine.

Be interested how you flesh this out, if you go that route.

graphicguy

snake, I'd get a big charge out of watching you and jipster do your "thing". Give me a bag of popcorn and a big gulp, and I'll be amused for hours at the negotiating table just observing.

tifighter

I'd definitely shop a store like this, too. Hours at a dealership is not worth an extra $200 to me. I bought a new Nissan last month; the sales mgr told me what his lowest price was, and I'd done enough research to know it was a fair deal. He wasn't buying a boat with the profit, that's for sure. In and out in 90 minutes including test drive and F&I, and it was totally respectful the whole time. A pretty surprising experience...I'd shop there again in a second.

I hope you can make it happen a8q

qbrozen

Heck, I feel like I've already bought from several of the pros here. Isell, vmax, and brentwood have all been instrumental in at least one car purchase (lease in isell's case) each. British Rover came close to being #4.

nyccarguy

hey audia8q - long time, no post. good too see you're still around.

I would absolutely 100%, would buy at a dealership like that in a heartbeat. Good luck!

fezo

I just bug them and tehn hold on to what I've got.

I'd feel worse if I actually went into the showrooms not buying all the time.

Had the Accord that my wife usually drives today. Just about to hit 180K. It's done a little nickle and diming in the past couple of years (latest was a power steering line that went) but it still runs great and no rust or anything. I keep thinking about selling it but then why?

isell wouldn't want it on a trade - handshaker.

snakeweasel

Give me a bag of popcorn and a big gulp, and I'll be amused for hours at the negotiating table just observing.

Well you wouldn't be amused for hours with me. My philosophy is that you are buying a car not negotiating the treaty of Ghent. If it takes hours something is wrong.

If you do your research, have a fair price negotiating a price should be fairly easy and somewhat quick. When I bought the Sebring negotiation of the price took 5-10 minutes. Negotiation the trade in was about 15 minutes.

Now getting the throw in floor mats took about 4 hours :P

Seriously the joyride (oops sorry test drive) took longer than talking price.

roadburner

Found a nice CPO 328i stick with all the options I want- Cold Weather and Sport Packages, Logic 7 sound, Xenons, PDC...
Too bad it's at a dealer I absolutely despise... :mad:

mikefm58

but in todays world I think more people want the transaction to be simple, quick, transparent and respectful and will pay a resonable amount for this...not thousands but maybe $200-$400 more and my volume goes up and my csi is strong which leads to customer retention, referrals and good word of mouth.

And don't forget about the increase business in your service dept. as a result of the increased sales volume, and from what I hear from folks here, lots of money to be made there.

Central Florida has become a snake pit, home of the $699 dealer fee that isn't mentioned until the F&I office. After trying for a Nissan at Universal Nissan in Orlando a couple years ago, I had to go home and take a shower after leaving disappointed. It was actually insulting the way they added this fee and that fee, then deducted this allowance and that allowance before coming up with a final price.

To answer your question, a resounding YES, your store would be the first one I'd visit.

graphicguy

snake....couldn't agree with you more. If you've done just minimal research, the time spent at the negotiation desk should be minimal. Attitude (on both sides of the desk) goes a long way towards making a quick and good deal, too.

Guess I'm going to have to limit my entertainment quota to the "jipster".

isell.....with the recent Toyota announcement, I would imagine your store is going to get real busy. I'd be curious if that's the case.

sterlingdog

A cross country car buying spree?! It sounds like a trip designed in Heaven! Count me in, as I am looking to replace the Explorer. Part of the fun would be seeing Isell and Jipster negotiate. Isell could never take both of us on in the same day. I do the "3-5 Hour Method", remember?

If Edmunds won't finance the trip, Snake can show us how to write it off as "investigative business research".

Richard

sterlingdog

"Come on out, Steve! Just you though."

Well! So much for old friends. To think that I was going to drive 3,000 miles to buy a Pilot from you. :mad: Never mind. I'll just go to see joel and get a new Explorer.

Richard

driver100

with the recent Toyota announcement, I would imagine your store is going to get real busy. I'd be curious if that's the case.

I finally get a RAV4 rental car to try out (I have been curious for a long time), and they announce this morning they are going to stop selling them until they find out what the problem is.

My wife doesn't care, she thinks the chances of this being an affected car are very small. I am tempted to exchange it but then again there are millions out there. I never win a lottery, but I might come up with the unlucky car.

If you here of a RAV4 get into a serious accident near Apollo Beach Florida, hire some of those lawyers they always have on the TV ads down here.

And yes, I'd like to go on that car buying tour. Maybe we'd have an advantage if we go in as a group.

graphicguy

..... hire some of those lawyers they always have on the TV ads down here.

driver....I'll have my lawyers contact you.....they are...."Dooey, Cheatem, and Howe". They'll be in touch right after they conclude their depositions on chronic hangnail litigation.

driver100

I get a RAV4 for one month and then find this out:So Toyota is finding that being the world's No. 1 auto maker includes having a bull's eye on your logo.

Here's a little warning shot for Toyota to consider: According to The New York Times, Compete Inc., a Massachusetts research firm that studies online car shopping in the U.S., says Ford has surpassed Toyota in customer consideration for the first time since Compete began tracking such data in 2002.

The public can see what's happening here. As a result, Toyota's bullet-proof reputation is taking hits in terms of public perception

How the mighty can fall.....so quickly!

sterlingdog

My floor mats took 5 minutes. The test drive was 15 minutes. F&I took 20 minutes. The trade-in took 30 minutes. The remaining one hour and 50 minutes was for negotiating. It sounds bad, but the salesman and I had a great time. The sales manager couldn't have enjoyed it, but he was really nice about it. I do give them lots of service on both of my cars. I love that dealership because of the way that they treat their customers. It's such a key factor.

Richard

driver100

.I'll have my lawyers contact you.....they are...."Dooey, Cheatem, and Howe".

lol...........as long as I don't have to pay them up front like they advertise. Most of these lawyers (er, ambulance chasers) seem so nice and friendly in the ads.

There is one attractive blonde woman who will really try to solve all my problems and fight the bad guys. In the final scene she is standing on the courthouse steps next to a big motorcycle, not sure what she is trying to prove, but it impresses me.

If your guys don't work out, give her a call for me.

sterlingdog

"Maybe we'd have an advantage if we go in as a group."

Heaven help the salesmen who saw this crew coming!

Richard

houdini1

I'll go on the trip as long as it is a swing thru the South (warm) with stops along the way to limber up and hit a few golf balls. I could never play golf very well but women just cannot resist golfers...as long as you are built like Tiger !!

Also, as a group, we can intimidate the sales folk. If intimidation doesn't work we can just go ahead and slap them around a little. Our battle cry, "Who wants to sell me a car today"!! They will love us.

sterlingdog

"As far as HOSTS, just Kirstie!"

I'll bring Tidester along and make him behave. Even though he can drive you crazy with those physics and mathematical equations, he's a nice guy. After all, he does allow us to get way off track at times.

Richard

houdini1

If anyone has been negotiating to buy a Toyota in the last few days, here is a way to have some fun. Just act like you haven't heard about the sales suspension and waltz in and announce that you are finally ready to buy...

Seriously though, I sure do hope that no Toyota salespeople are hurt too badly by this and I know many of them have a heavy heart today. Hang in there guys, it will get better.

sterlingdog

You can swing by and pick me up. I'll get the group a golf package at one of the 38 golf courses here. I'll fix my famous baby back ribs, corn-on-the-cob, baked beans, fried corn bread, and banana pudding for dessert.

I want to walk into Isell's place and shout, "The baby seals are here with their bats and chains!"

Richard

sterlingdog

I'm glad that Mac isn't here to see this. Still, knowing him, he would be looking on the positive side of things.

Richard

fezo

Sounds good, Richard.

Get cooking. I'm on my way!

driver100

baby back ribs, corn-on-the-cob, baked beans, fried corn bread, and banana pudding for dessert.

Wow! Some of my favorite foods. You've covered some of my most favorite food groups. Are you far from Apollo Beach?

(just joking, when I worked for the publishing company there was one guy who would invite himself along with his family, and show up at peoples houses. At least he brought his own RV, parked it in the drive and hooked it up).

gogiboy

GG--

Glad that you can spend the time to consider and reflect on the possible contenders for the next car in your fleet. If I have one complaint about our experience it's that we felt compelled to get something fairly quickly.

As much as I like the Scion, I'm much more interested in the cars you are screening, but then, I can live vicariously through you and not spend money, which in many ways is better.

We may get a sense of how well our new car performs in adverse conditions since the experts are saying that a major winter storm will be hitting OK by Thursday afternoon. Current predictions are 1/2" to 3/4" of ice followed by somewhere between 3" and 12" of snow plus 30 mph wind gusts depending on the exact track. In 2007 OK got a similar storm and 600K Oklahomans were without power--some for weeks.

I'm crossing my fingers that it doesn't arrive until after teaching my morning class tomorrow, since I have already demonstrated my inability to navigate on ice. I also hope that the university cancels classes once it becomes evident that roads are unsafe.

Gogiboy

jayrider

After tanking up on that spread , I'll supply all the gas for the entire trip. We can split the fuel bills.

driver100

">This is what gets me. Everyone can make a mistake (unfortunately life saving mistakes should not be made) but waiting 3 years to fix it!!!!! Driving this RAV4 rental doesn't impress me too much, especially the Star Trek inspired instrument panel. And lots of gray plastic. Also, very fuzzy steering, acts dumb, slow steering response.

From the Globe and Mail....

A halt in production at six Toyota plants in North America will allow pedals made by Denso to be shipped to dealers to be put in vehicles recalled, instead of being assembled into new vehicles, two sources familiar with the recall said Wednesday.

The defect involves how a part, called the friction lever, interacts with the sliding surface of the pedal inside the pedal sensor assembly, Toyota said in the letter to NHTSA.

In the worst case, the letter said, the accelerator pedal can become stuck in a partially depressed position.

Toyota said it began receiving reports in March, 2007, that pedals were operating roughly or were slow to return to the idle position.

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british_rover

articles in the NYT quotes or SAAB sales manager. I won't post it up since it mentions the dealership and an employee by name but if someone else finds it I am sure that will be fine.

isellhondas

I'm taking no pleasure in what is happening with Toyota.

They have a long standing great reputation for building excellent cars and they do.

Now this.

I just hope they can get all of this sorted out and fixed in a hurry.