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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Posting dealership names is fine. You just can't post salespeople names.
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Call a toe truck

    Is this what you had in mind?

    image

    :P
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    No Jipster, not 8 or 9 times and the story hasn't changed

    Alright, then 6 or 7 times, I know it's a lot. But, big deal right? Do you have any stories where you're not dealing with grinders or ignorant customers?

    Customers lie and play games too.

    No doubt. But, I've always found the argument "customers lie and play games too"
    highly irrelevant... like "customers wear shoes too." (cepting fer oldfarmer). It doesn't matter what the customer does. You, the salesperson are the paid professional. You are suppose to be following the law to the letter, you are suppose to be ethical and honest. And supposedly you should be trained on how to deal with customers who lie and play games. There is no code of conduct, for Joe Blow off the street, for him to buy a vehicle.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    They have a really neat name and if the hosts say its OK I will name them.

    That's not a problem as long as you don't include contact information -- and it's not obscene. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I decided to start using capital letters, although I find it inefficient.

    Perhaps but typing in all lower case makes reading it much less efficient so stick with standard sentence case if you want your readers to have a more fulfilling and enjoyable experience. :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    You beat me to it - thanks! :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Just catching up on a lively day but have a few comments.

    1. One price stores succeed because studies have showed they make higher grosses than traditional stores. They fail because people invariably want to negotiate. Most times when a customer asks for and is given the "drop dead price" the first thing out of thier mouth is "can you do $500 better?"

    2, Most customers are payment buyers.

    3. A three state road trip to save $200 on a new car? What is the cost of your time and the road trip?

    4. Many times dealers have had to suspend sales of vehicles until a safety recall has been performed. Just not nearly as massive and well published as Toyota. I personally have been involved at least 4 times with 3 different brands.

    Just thought I would bring a little reality to this wonderful but not representative of the average buyer group.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    OK then, the name of the dealership is Bud Weiser.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    No problem. I learned the hard way. :blush:
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    3. A three state road trip to save $200 on a new car? What is the cost of your time and the road trip?

    Well, if the states are here in the West, it's many hours and many miles. On the east coast, I suspect you can travel from MA to NJ in the time it takes to drive from one end of Colorado to the other - or less.

    Just sayin'.
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    No doubt. But, I've always found the argument "customers lie and play games too"
    highly irrelevant... like "customers wear shoes too." (cepting fer oldfarmer). It doesn't matter what the customer does. You, the salesperson are the paid professional. You are suppose to be following the law to the letter, you are suppose to be ethical and honest. And supposedly you should be trained on how to deal with customers who lie and play games. There is no code of conduct, for Joe Blow off the street, for him to buy a vehicle.


    Gee, I thought this was the forum for "Stories from the Sales Frontlines".... Wouldn't be much fun if the salespeople didn't tell stories from their perspective....It's much more interesting than yours.....

    I bet the salespeople know exactly how to deal with customers who lie and play games.......use the broom!
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    But say the drive is 2 hours each way plus stops and time visiting dealerships. Again, what is my time worth added to gas, food, etc? Soon the laws of diminishing return raises it's ugly head.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    Sadly, the toe truck isn't in it's old place near the Space Needle any longer. But they did save it and put it in a museum in Seattle.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    But they did save it and put it in a museum in Seattle.

    I'm glad to hear they toed it away to a safe place. :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • dtezladtezla Member Posts: 88
    Personally, I've worked at both types of places. One was a "no-haggle" place, the other was a traditional "start at MSRP" place. The prices at the "no-haggle" place were extremely fair, they started out as $500 over invoice. Unfortunately it spiraled down into a bidding war with the other local same-make dealership. Toward the end of my career there, every deal was about $500 under invoice.... and people still wanted to haggle. More importantly I saw lots of people still unhappy with the overall price.

    On the other hand, at the dealership I worked at that started everyone at sticker & allowed people to flex their "haggle" muscles, people seemed to be generally happier with the overall price and experience - even when paying much more than the typical profit of the "no-haggle" stores.

    As for the idea of "Price" being listed as 4th or 5th, I honestly believe that this is because people don't want to admit (to others or themselves) that they are so shallow. People like to preach that they would walk out of a store that treated them poorly, but time and time again we hear confessions of people buying the car because it was cheaper than offered elsewhere.

    Keep in mind that at both of these places, I was the only negotiator. There was none of the "going back to talk to the manager" stuff. I also was always extremely open with people at both places. I'd show customers the invoices & rebate sheets. Yet at the "no-haggle" store, $500 below invoice wasn't good enough. But at the haggle store, I usually settled for one of two prices - either $500 off MSRP or "Split the difference" between MSRP & Invoice. I could count the number of mini deals I did there over 2 years on my two hands.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well if your in the south suburbs of Chicago at or near the Indiana state line its only 45 miles across Indiana to Michigan.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    People like to preach that they would walk out of a store that treated them poorly, but time and time again we hear confessions of people buying the car because it was cheaper than offered elsewhere.

    I keep saying this, a car is functionally homogeneous in the fact that I get the same make and model that I want regardless of where I buy it. The sales experience is only a small portion of the whole experience buying a car. To most people being treated nice for a few hours once every 2-10 years isn't as valuable as a lower price especially if that price is significant.

    But at the haggle store, I usually settled for one of two prices - either $500 off MSRP or "Split the difference" between MSRP & Invoice.

    The question I have is did both dealerships sell the same make? If not that could be why one sold below invoice and the other above. All in all I keep saying do your research.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Come on down, I would be more then happy to give you a tour of some of Nashvilles finer Honkey Tonks and Dive Bars. FYI I don't do the Opry :D
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,590
    I'm glad to hear they toed it away to a safe place.

    You guys are funny. I think they had to retire the truck because of a big bunion.

    Actually, I made that little mistake to see how closely posts are being read. :P

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    A store tried that here in Nashville also. If any one needs to lease about 50,000 SF of retail space with a huge parking lot I can give you directions.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm just wondering exactly what it would take to get you to quit responding to my posts?

    I've asked nicely several times but it doesn't seem to work.

    Anything?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    I really think it depends on the make/models you're looking at regarding whether a "one fair price" store works. Chevy? Probably not so much, since most dealers have 50 Malibus, in every color and option combo you could want. Plus, there usually is another Chevy store within a reasonable driving distance away from the one you're visiting. It's too easy to go from one, to the other, to compare pricing on the exact same vehicle.

    In that case snake, you're right. The cars are commodities. That gray Malibu at dealer "A" can be found in the exact same config at dealer "B" 15 minutes away. That still wouldn't be the gating factor in purchasing from any store, though.

    Certainly, selection is important....having the exact color, options, model I want will nudge me towards purchasing from that first store. But, if the dealer's personnel is ambivalent, rude, or combative in dealing with me (and there have been some like that), I'm not buying from them, regardless of their price. I understand that's a double edged sword. There are some buyers who are ambivalent, rude and combative, too.

    Highline models are a little different.....especially import brands like BMW, Audi, Acura, Infiniti, etc. Generally speaking, your selection is limited to what they have sitting on their lot. That selection may only include the colors, options, etc they sell the most of. You may, or may not be interested in those. Yeah, you can do a special order to your exact specs, if you want to wait months (even if the dealership agrees to order a car for you).

    Thinking of my own recent shopping, apparently Acura stores don't find that the Black with Saddle interior is a big mover. As such, the dealerships don't seem to order that many in that color combo. I probably would have bought by now if I would have found that car on any of the two dealerships around me. Instead, one dealership says they'll get any color combo/options I want, but will have to do a search. But, they want to charge me for the service. Another dealership will do the same thing. They won't charge me for the service. One dealership is pressing hard (not quite, but bordering on pressure tactics) to get me to put down a deposit.

    The other says to give them the word and they'll have the car in stock within 48 hours.

    Point being, the dealership that makes it easier on me will get my business. I'm all for a fair price. I believe good service is the minimum requirement to get me to sit down with them. Charge me extra for good service (like $250 just to locate the car I want)? I'm not real interested in that.

    Just had this conversation with one of the local Acura dealers last night over the phone. The sales person told me I should get into the store to put down a deposit on the car I wanted. I've already told them what my offer was. It thought it was fair. $600 over invoice, minus incentives. He goes and finds the car I want. Then, he springs it on me that there's a $250 "charge" to go get the car I want (which I know is 100 miles away). He also informs me that there's a $350 "dealer pack" which includes winter mats, wheel locks, and something else I can't remember. He said it comes on all of his cars. Well, this one isn't his car (yet). So, how can there be a dealer pack?

    From a customer's stand point, this dealership doesn't have the car that I want. He wants to charge me to get the car that I want. And, he wants to add more to the deal for "dealer options" which aren't even on the car, yet. But, he wants me to commit.

    Even though I made it clear I'm making one firm offer, he says we're "only" a couple hundred apart on my offer. I don't ordinarily do this, but I thought about this for a moment. "So, if I come up $200, you'll get the car I want, add in the winter/trunk mats, include the other "pack" if he wants, but not necessary, we've got a deal?"

    "Ummm....no. You bring your offer up $200. Add in $250 to get the car. And, another $350 for the dealer options."

    I declined and told him I'll keep shopping. I broke one of my cardinal rules......don't let myself be bumped. I sort of "bit" on the "we're only a couple hundred apart".

    That's not a couple hundred apart. That's $800 apart. This is the exact reason I only make one firm offer, including everything, and try to limit the "surprises".

    In "audia's" scenario, there are no surprises. If he had what I wanted, disclosed everything up front, I doubt very seriously I'd shop him. His deal is fair. He's trying to make it easy. I like easy.

    In isell's case with Hondas, it may not work, since there are a lot more Honda dealers in any given town, than there are Acura dealers, if I had to guess. The likelihood of having exactly what I wanted, in any configuration I wanted, is high, at any of the dealers.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    One price stores have been tried at every level and they usually do not last long because other dealers will undercut them and people (like you) want to negotiate.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    OK then, the name of the dealership is Bud Weiser.

    I'd do business there... based solely on the name. :P
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    .....if you want your readers to have a more fulfilling and enjoyable experience.

    Speaking of a more fulfilling and enjoyable reading experience... is that a run-on sentence I detect from the tidester? I got a bit winded reading it. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I can see saavy consumers and dealers taking advantage of the situation.

    My thoughts exactly. I would check them out to get a price to start negotiating from at other dealers !!

    Apparently it never worked well for Saturn since they are out of biz and they had the advantage that all their dealers used this system.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    A three state road trip to save $200 on a new car? What is the cost of your time and the road trip?

    I don't think he gets the concept of our road trip. Is someone going to tell him the odds against us actually buying a car on said trip are astronomically bad?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,590
    Apparently it never worked well for Saturn since they are out of biz

    Yes, but to be fair, that isn't the only reason they are out of business.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I'm all over the place now because I still have a year or so and am not quite sure what direction I will want or need to go at that time. Also, there a a bunch of totally new cars debuting in the next 18 months so who knows. Right now I'm leaning a bit toward premium rides but I'm not sure I'm going to be wowed enough to justify the cost. Once all the rides are in the decision will likely be easy. . Would never ask a salesman what I should buy. Not necessary. Just do the research and do the deal. No grinding for me.
    Going to the auto show today so some things may become clearer. But, yes, I'll test drive a number of cars but I wouldn't say anything and everything. The sales folks don't have a problem with me because I'm always up front, visit at slow times and am respectful. All this speculation helps me burn off a bit of ocd energy. The meds only go so far. ;)
    And don't worry about sounding critical, not a problem -- been married over 40 years.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I mean Edmunds :D

    Edmunds Tech Award
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I like the looks of what was the "500". Just having the "500" on a Galaxy"500" meant additional horsepower. The small Fairlane "500" was an exceptional buy.
    The 2007, 2008 "500" sat a little higher affording easy entry/exit for us older guys.
    I just don't know why Mullaly renamed the "500" the Taurus. (Bull).

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Right now, I have a customer that is bound and determined to buy a black EXL Accord with the ivory interior. They make these with either black or ivory and, at least in my neck of the woods, the ivory interior ones are very poor sellers.

    None anywhere but she will wait three months if necessary.

    On an oddball combo like that, you bet we will take a deposit.

    Of course, if she backs out we won't keep her deposit. we will just have a hard to sell car on our hands.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "Are you far from Apollo Beach?"

    I'm just outside of Pinehurst, N.C. (Golf Capital of the World) in an unincorporated village called Whispering Pines (population 2,500). It's quite a distance from Florida. ;)

    Richard
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I was thinking the opposite.

    Why take a car that is well known like a Taurus and change the name to 500 only to change it back?

    Adding the "500" to the old Galaxie name didn't mean more horsepower just a fancier trim level.

    Back in the 60's you could get just about any engine in any Ford. A plain jane Custom could have a 427 and a Galaxie 500 could come with a six.

    There were some oddball cmbinations that could be had!

    I think changing the name back to Taurus was a smart thing to do.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Since we will want to spend our money on cars, I'll reserve rooms across the country at Motel 6. :sick: They will leave the light on for us. :D

    Richard
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I was referring to the excursion when it was a 1 man show - long before a 30' diesel pusher was needed to hold all you guys. Notice I did not add rentals and beer to the equation.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    At inception the 500 was underpowered and did not sell well. A new engine and an old name were used to stimulate sales.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I can't believe that she took the abuse. Like Jip, I'm a grinder but I do it with respect which I expect in return.

    Richard
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Agreed renaming the 500 the Taurus was a good move. The less alpha numeric names the better.

    Poor lincoln with all that MK_Junk I can't even remember what is what except that the MKT looks fugly.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't mind that kind of a customer.

    Just be nice.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "I would think 3 hours would be close to the average buying time anyhow."

    Perhaps longer. :D;)

    Richard
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    LOL

    And Joel, congras on Ford's profitable 2009.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    joel....I absolutely love Nashville. At least every couple of years, I take a little road trip down there. I stop at my favorite bourbon distilleries for a little tour along the way. Followed by a side trip to the Corvette Museum. Then, I end up in Nashville for some of the best music, played live, on this side of the Mississippi....all for the cost of a cover charge (sometimes not even a cover).

    Although this was a couple of years ago, last time I went down your way, it was about 105 degrees during my entire stay. Just a wee bit too hot, even for me.

    Next time I make the trip (maybe this spring), I'll stop in to see you.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "I always like it when dealers say prices will be marked on the windshield for this sale."

    I thought that meant that negotiations started with the windshield price. :P

    Richard
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I'm sure Joel will be glad to see you - especially if you bring your title and last pay stub. :)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Be the first in your net-borhood to friend Kirstie Carspace on Facebook. I'm easing into the 21st century slowly - before you know it, I'll only be a decade behind!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    isell.....I can't figure out if the color combo I want is so undesirable that no dealer orders them. Or, if it's so desirable, every one they get in stock sells quickly.

    You may disagree, but if a dealer doesn't have what I want. And wants to cut a deal on something he doesn't even have in stock, why would I buy from them?

    I understand not having any stock that may not sell well. But, if you've got a willing customer, why not get one in? I know there are at least 7-8 on the ground for the color combo I want in OH, if my internet searches are correct. Dealer trade? Certainly there must be something another dealer wants that this dealer has which would make that possible.

    To me, anyway, that's part of good service.....one that's expected to get my business. Charging for that just seems low budget and tacky on my end.

    That's the part I don't get. You don't have what I want. You want me to make a deal on something that I do want. You can get what I want, but charge me for the privilege of doing business at the store?
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I understand your psychological condition. All school bus drivers throw furniture. It relieves stress and is better than throwing a child out of the bus window. :P

    I have told you this one before I believe. A few years ago, a school bus driver walked into my office one afternoon and threw the bus keys down on my desk. He suggested that I go get the children. I said, "You left the children alone on the bus?!" He responded, " Mr. Richard, I drove a jeep in Vietnam war zones. It was a cake walk compared to this. Those kids are worse than any enemy of the United States." Later, when I reached the bus, I understood his reasoning. They were throwing objects at passing cars, fighting, and using language that would make a sailor blush. What an afternoon! Yes, we did fire the bus driver---as if he cared.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Can you believe that explorer used a capital letter?! For a moment, I thought that I had to correct him. :P

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I am so proud of you for listening to your teacher. You should be rewarded. I will pay for all of your meals on our road trip. :D

    Richard
This discussion has been closed.