"Almost outselling the Accord. Lots of folks just do not get it that "wow" style sells but only in small quantities."
Well different brands sell to different audiences. For example toyota is very conservative with the exception of the Scion TC and the Lexus IS300. The Lexus GS was a styling chance for them as well although they should have took the styling much further than they did iny opinion. Nissan and Chrysler sell alot of cars on style. Mazda has had success with getting younger buyers with the 3 and 6 with great looking sporty looking cars.
In my opinion GM's styling their SUV's look good and their Caddy line is getting a good reception although I don't care for it. Pontiac needs more styling. I miss the Pontiac styling theme of 1986-1991. I didn't like the switch to the cladded look with the release of the 92 Boneville, and 92 Grand AM.
Let's take my 27 yr. Veteran Delphi Worker. Both skills at Delphi/GM and skills learned outside the workplace.
Graduated High School in 1975. and worked part-time at a gas station.
Went to Michigan State University in fall of 1975 and completed one yr. in pre-med. It got expensive and he was unsure if he wanted to continue, so he joined the Navy in 1976. He went to a training facility called "Great Lakes" where he learned the skill to become a radio repairman tech. He was in the Navy for 3 years and was on the U.S.S. Alamo, and I was born in Nov. 25, 1978 in U.S. Naval Hospital in Long Beach Cali. Finished his service with the U.S. Navy, and came back home to G.R. Michigan. Had job interviews with the U.S. Postal Service, and General Motors. He took the Job at GM. He started out in production and quickly learned the skills to become a Job Setter from my Grandfather at the Wyoming Mi. Plant. He got transfered to the Coopersville, Mi. plant in 1990 give or take a yr. He was a job setter, and helped on some occasions set up new production lines with engineers. He later on went to school to become a certified screw machine operator, and shortly was know as the best operator in the plant. He did that for 3 years, until Delphi management at coopersville asked him if he'd be interested in running the aftermarket fuel injector line back at the Wyoming plant. (They had lots of extra space in the plant) He said yes. He's now currently in charge of after market parts, and opens the shop up in the morning and gets the machinery ready for porduction. A jobsetter typically performs maintence and repairs. If it's major, then a machine repairmen will assist the job setter to get the machine back on-line.
Production personel skills are various. Some simply put things togeather by hand or with high-tech machinery.
A GM assembly worker skills can range a great deal, from as simple as puting a part on a part, to operating a high tech robot or machinery such as a press.
The bottom line is that most autoworkers have a skill that without proper training, can't be self learned. It's not a skill that joe six-pack off the street can jump in and do the same day. It just takes a great deal of training to become efficient and reach production goals.
Impala-plain but nice looking car for the masses and the volume. It is almost outselling the Accord already. Selling much higher numbers than last year with less fleet.
Lucerne-great looking from all reports I have read.
DTS-good looking but not much different than the old one so no surprises there. Already outselling the Deville with minimal stock.
Cobalt-yawner of a car but again does not offend anyone. (actually out as '05?)
Anything else I am missing?
I forgot the new G6 coupe. Easily as good or better looking than the Honda counterpart. In fact quite exciting.
any other new cars? Perhaps the Z06?--Wow, I drove one for a couple hours and the power is amazing.
There is the HHR which is selling as many as they can build due in most part to it's very different styling. GM brought it out just in time as the PT goes down with the old, yesterday's news styling. Probably a good time to pick up a used 3 year old PT!
No, the new styling for '06 will not save GM. They have great styling with the new models but it will take more than that to get sales back up and profitable.
Of course with gas reported to be going below $2 in a few months the large SUV's should gain some sales back.
I'm not that crazy about the G6 sedan...IMO the styling is just awkward, with a rear axle that seems set too far back, and an odd beltline jig. And for something that rides a wheelbase about as long as a LeSabre, it feels awfully cramped inside.
However, I do like the coupe. It looks like GM put a bit more effort into the styling here to come up with a more cohesive package. And I don't mind a coupe with a cramped back seat...after all, coupes are more style over function anyway.
I'm not that crazy about the G6 sedan...IMO the styling is just awkward, with a rear axle that seems set too far back, and an odd beltline jig. And for something that rides a wheelbase about as long as a LeSabre, it feels awfully cramped inside.
Sorry but that is the styling that will be coming out in most new cars. Very little front overhang (see BMW) and shorter overhang. Gives much more legroom on the interiors. G6 has huge rear seat legroom for a small midsize car. Your crampness is probably due to width?
I love the G6 sedan. It has a rakey look and very modern. I did not look at the rear seat legroom in the coupe but it is probably more than competitive.
I dislike that G6 beltline jig, too. That coupe is 100x better looking than the sedan, which still screams "rent me" in anything but top of the line form.
If 2006 styling is supposed to save GM...I wouldn't hold my breath. But it's better than the 2005 styling in just about every reskinned vehicle. For the money made by GM mucky mucks, I would expect at least this much change, and much more in the next 2 years. Did they hire new stylists or did the existing ones finally lay off the hard drugs?
On that note the local Saturn dealer here is advertising they'll have an Aura for viewing next week.
is that it still has the big, stereotypical overhang up front of an FWD car, but in back, the rear wheels just look like they're too far back in relation to the C-pillar and the rear of the car. It's almost like it's too much wheelbase for the car. And to be fair, your typical car on a 112+" wb is in excess of 200" long, whereas the G6 is only around 189".
As for the rear seat, my evaluation of it is based on me actually sitting in the car, and not any published measurements. Compared to midsized cars like the Camry, Accord, Altima, Malibu, and Sebring, I'd consider it sub-par.
As for the Mazda3, I don't see quite the same styling "problem" that the G6 has. In the case of the 3, it looks kinda like two different cars joined at the B-pillar. Almost as if they took the front half of a small-ish upscale midsize and grafted on a stubby subcompact rear. And it shows on the inside, as the 3 is surprisingly roomy up front, but typical cramped subcompact in the back.
I like the G6. My mom said her G6 GTP is fun to drive and is impressed by it's handling and build quality. She owned a Grand-Am before and said the G6 reminds her of her 99 Grand Prix only much better. GM is selling the GTP coupes like hot cakes, and for someone living in the rust belt that wants a affordable fun FWD car it makes good logic sense. She has the deep blue one and said people stare her down. Some even roll down the window to tell her nice ride. She said however she can't wait for the GXP version do next year.
As for the rear seat, my evaluation of it is based on me actually sitting in the car, and not any published measurements. Compared to midsized cars like the Camry, Accord, Altima, Malibu, and Sebring, I'd consider it sub-par.
Per CR the G6 has the same rear legroom as an Avalon. There is a lot of variability in how legroom is perceived. Per CR they put the front seat at 40" and then measure the rear. But what about seat angle?, or cushion height? Lots of variables, but the G6 is very competitive in it's size range.
I saw one sitting outside of my local Pontiac Dealership last week and it had nice shiny rooms. The exterior of the sedan while not bland just needs a few cosmetic tweaks, I think the coupe looks like a 04 Toyota Camry Solata from the back end view. In my opinion the back end of the coupe needs more of an American look.
Consumer Reports Reports in iys review of the G6 blasted the G6 for rear seat and front seat access to the car I think. I think that killed its rating in Consumer Reports.
Yeah but the Mazda 3 is a compact car where the G6 is a mid-size car. I did sit in a 3 hatch and it felt very tight inside and I'm only 5-6 or 5-7 in height.
Consumer Reports Reports in iys review of the G6 blasted the G6 for rear seat and front seat access to the car I think. I think that killed its rating in Consumer Reports.
Actually it has a recommended buy from CU. They did comment that the coupelike sporty styling impedes rear access and rear visibility. If rear seat comfort is more important than styling for you I would recommend looking at a Chevrolet or Buick.
1. Legacy Costs, pension plans that are obscene in todays competitive world marketplace.
2. Bad Management: There are so many blunders, the major brands lack identity and relevance to todays marketplace. Who buys a Buick today? And when these people pass on?
3. Foreign Competition: Not only are the Japenese raising the bar ever higher but here comes China and India which are now manufacturing their own cars.
If I was a betting man my money would be on bankruptcy for GM although the government may decide to bail out GM which will simply delay the inevitable at our expense in debased currency.
Although many auto companies have come back from the brink of bankruptcy before.
Many people do. LeSabre has been the best selling full size sedan for many years. Add on Park Avenue sales and...
>And when these people pass on?
The same people who buy Accords when they pass on -- the people who used to 10 years younger but move into a different age group...????? I can explain further if you need.
"The same people who buy Accords when they pass on -- the people who used to 10 years younger but move into a different age group...????? I can explain further if you need."
Yeah please explain further because I want to hear this.
I don't believe that styling alone will save GM. I think GM vehicles need to make more sense ergonomicly, as well improve they're finish materials. The Solstice is a knockout but in every comparo I read the Miata is still better in the above stated categories. I think there is to much competition to buy a car on styling alone. I believe that higher content quality, handling, safety, and value will rule the car buying public of tomorow. That's just my two cents as an enthusiast. I think the Bangle 3 series bimmer is butt ugly but would I drive one? Hell yes. When they say it's the ultimate driving machine they ain't lyin
"Actually it has a recommended buy from CU. They did comment that the coupelike sporty styling impedes rear access and rear visibility. If rear seat comfort is more important than styling for you I would recommend looking at a Chevrolet or Buick."
What I meant by rating was it killed its overall score. The G6 scored a 51 out of 100. Where as the Mazda 6 V6 scored a 69, the Altima 4 cyl scored a 66, and the Mitsu Galant 4 cyl scored a 58. If not for the issue of rear access the score for the G6 would have been higher. Thats my point.
according to that cnn article posted last page, GM plans to make chevy "exiting" in style or something like that. Toyota and honda have not been exiting and they are EATING GM's LUNCH!
Let GM make the pontiac brand exiting and experiment with the style there, saturn too and even cadillac, but not your bread and butter, not Chevy! I think, while it is boring after seeing a few impalas on the road they do look much better in person, and the take - it - easy with out being too bland attitude is great and seems to be winning sales for GM.
Now, if they plan to have there chevy cars just look more expensive (like toyota is doing) that fine with me, since the style will not be eccentric just look better. How many people think this is true? Tell us what you think. If GM is going to go wild o the style, do it with desperate brands, not chevy.
Oh they exited style years ago GM needs to have a style which is unique and exciting. The strategy of taking on Japan and Germany in the earlier years, has proven disastrous indeed. When the Corvair did not knock out the VW, they should have learned something. The Corvair, if mid-engined and a sports car, may have do something. VW was a better peoples car. The Datsun 510 was a good poor mans BMW. GM is not too good at playing this game, and should not be in it anyway. Too many good cars out there in the market place, like Japan makes. They know how to make their cars. GM forgot how to make their cars. Americans may buy the American GM car, or their car. If they want the best Accord, Honda has it and will always do it better. Bring back the market leading styles, as they and the big three did in the years '67 - '71 or even to '73, before the great fall from grace.
A fundamental of business is knowing who you work for and GM years ago forgot they work for the customer.
Someone above mentioned the increase in automated production.
My cousin's husband has worked for GM for 25 or so years and his job is to maintain that automated machinery. As he has worked in 2 plants (Tarrytown, NY and Oklahoma City, OK) in those 25 years, I'm guessing that he's quite good at what he does. I'm hoping that he lands on his feet after the OK plant closes; he's hoping to transfer to the plant in Moraine, OH.
Re: daycare -- I don't even want to go there. My wife is the director of a child care center (they take care of kids, not days) affiliated with a local school district. Trust me, after 20+ years in the business, she could write a book on what she's seen. Full time care for one child in the program is $130/week.
Fortunately, she's lucky enough to pay her staff well enough to get quality employees. Folks who work for the "chains" (La Petite, Children's Choice, etc.) are lucky to make Starbucks or Mickey D wages.
But I guess it's ok for Delphi to push the bankruptcy ruling off 6 more months so GM can stock pile parts, just in case their is a strike. :mad: I guess it's also ok for the top 600 to pay themselves 900 million in salary and bonuses. They want to file for bankruptcy and break the contracts, and cut my fathers wage 60%. If it all goes to hell, then they always can bail out on a platinum diamond stud Parachute. But that's ok :confuse:
Perhaps it will help sales of the Ridgeline. It is in the niche market right now. Selling at about an annual rate of 60,000. Compare to the "loser" Colorado at 125,000 fot the year. The GMC Canyon will sell about 35,000 this year.
What is really amazing though is that the Ridgline has a 74 day supply out there which is unheard of for a Honda. Most Hondas are around 35 day supply.
"Is it just ME or is the Colorado/Canyon BUTT UGLY??"
At least they are better-looking than the Ridgeline. They are rather bashed for their mediocre performace and quality. Given that their starting price is half of that of the Ridgeline, they should sell better than the 10,800 average monthly sale.
Just is not much market for a midsize truck. Too small for contractors. I forsee even a larger drop in volume when the new full size trucks come out. I would think that the Ridgeline would sell to the general public though. some neat features. Probably a bit too expensive?
actually, I don't mind the styling of them. I think the Colorado wears that horizontal bar across its front better than any of the other trucks. Also better than the cars, although the cars are moving away from that style.
The Colorado/Canyon has problems that go beyond style, though. It's really no bigger than the S-10 it replaced, and actually has a slightly LOWER towing/payload capacity! Along with the Ranger, the Colorado/Canyon seem to be the only "true" compact trucks left. Everything else, like the Tacoma, Dakota/Raider, and Frontier just seem like they're in a much bigger size class.
I think the Ridgeline's problem is that it suffers from the "kitchen sink" syndrome (as in, everything but...) Even in base form, it's very well-equipped and comes with nifty features like that storage well under the bed. So essentially, there are no "true" base models. And it's only available in one body style, and one engine choice. Now maybe this is the one engine and body style combination that would win the largest amount of buyers, but something like this really needs more variations.
I'm also guessing that the Ridgeline isn't a cheap truck to build. Unit-bodies traditionally make for a very poor truck, and in the Ridgeline's case it's no exception...so they slipped a full-length frame up underneath it to beef it up. I'm sure that wasn't a cheap way to build a truck. And as a result, they probably just can't afford to make a really basic version of it, or they'd never recoup their costs.
It's disgusting that they pay child care workers so poorly. People are entrusting that which is most precious to people who make Mickey D's wages. You get what you pay for! I'm not saying all low-wage child care workers are bad, but at that price point you're going to get a lot of scum and losers. You won't keep the good-quality people either. Turnover must be awful.
At least they are better-looking than the Ridgeline
I never said the Ridgeline was a good looking truck. I would not buy one IMO all Hondas are OVERRATED and OVER PRICED! IF I had to buy a truck that size, I would have to "up size" probably to a Dodge Ram.
Need to keep this near to the GM styling question and not get into an off topic tangent. The Browse By Vehicle search tool in the left sidebar can help you find the Ridgeline topic, which I'm CERTAIN will be buzzing with the news
Trust me when I say that the typical wages paid to a child care worker are completely out of whack comapred to the value of the work they do.
Granted, many places don't do anything beyond ensuring that the kid is alive and in one piece at the end of the day. My wife, OTOH, has a degree in early childhood education, and her program attempts to teach kids to love learning, so that they are a better student as they get older.
Even so, she has a fair amount of turnover amongst her staff each year. As you state, it's much worse at the "corporate" centers.
When I met my wife 9 years ago, she was earning $7/hr as an assistant director of a church-run pre-school program. Now, she's the director of all the early childhood programs (pre-school and child care) for a small (2600 student) school district and is making roughly $50K a year.
What's funny is that because she works for a school district, she refuses to drive a "prestige" name plate car. In fact, both her and one of the elementary school principals own Saturn VUE's - V6 with the AWD option. My wife's is blue, the principal's is black.
The Civic Si is a car of the year at one of the magazines. The Solstice should get effort of the year by GM award. Good effort indeed. It may not beat the Miata on the track, has no real trunk, but it is pretty cool, none-the-less. Hard to recall the days when you had a choice of American cars like a Mustang, Camaro, Corvair Monza, Challenger or 'Cuda, as well as say a Malibu SS, or a Road Runner. Where are the cool cars? Sure the Stang is still around, and a pretty good effort at making a better Mustang overall, yet is relying on a '68 and '69 style to build a style on. While the Mustang changed for '94, '99, and then again for '05, GM let the Camaro, which looked pretty cool, but was not as easy car to live with for everyday driving, just die a slow death. Just a little taller hood on the Camaro would have gone a long way in making it easier for shorter people to actually see a little of the hood out front. It has quite a long hood. A slightly higher seating position would have helped. All in all, it looked better than most boring cars made today. It just needed a bit of a redo. If they bring the car back, I hope it is off the size and style considerations of the first generation Camaro, though they all looked great.
Take the canyon/colorado platform and build a small suv with AWD for the typhoon. The syclone needs to be a single cab AWD. Put a 6-speed auto with TAPshift/manumatic.
Ok for the engine. I'd take a 3.6 liter H.O. and Twin Turbo it like the Buick Velite/Grand National GNX concepts. I'd give em' 450 hp.- enough to whip the SRT-8 Hemi Grand Cherokee and Dodge Ram SRT-10 :P
I'd also add a powerful surround sound system and make it livable with some creature features.
The Ridgeline is ugly enough to be a GM truck... looks sort of like Son of the Avalanche.
GM hasn't had good styling generally since the days of Bill Mitchell. While there have been a few isolated good designs here and there, GMs days of styling leadership seem long past. That is tragic given the rich history -- heck, the company for all intents and purposes INVENTED automobile styling under Harley Earl.
I have to comment on the post a while back regarding the cost of doing colored interiors. You have it backwards. When cheap low-market imports started to invade these shores, most had one or two interior color choices, usually a gray or a black. When those cars started to sell, the domestic makers decided they could save a few bucks by dropping colors inside and sticking consumers with GMs infamous "sea of gray" interior. That doesn't mean consumers WANTED those things, it's just that was all they could get. It's the same with roof seams that don't get metalfinished anymore, just filled with an insert strip. Not better, just cheaper.
I'm amazed that none of the domestic manufacturers have brought back some tastefully executed colorful interiors as a point of differentiation. I for one would love to see a red, blue, green, or cream interior again from GM.
To be fair, a lot of car companies are struggling to come up with great-looking, original cars. Style-savvy VW swung and missed with the new Jetta (too Toyota-esque), BMW has hit some bumps with Bangle at the wheel and, apart from the premium-rental-car category Mustang, Ford has given us forgettable stuff like the Five Hundred and a bunch of Eddie Bauer-trimmed boxes on wheels.
But even amidst weak design competition GM is faltering, probably due to its conservatism and the beancounter mentality that is both a cause and effect of its slip into bankruptcy.
I passed a newer Buick Crossfire (?) (looked like a Park Avenue-type sedan with portholes on the fenders) yesterday on the freeway, and if it hadn't had recent California plates on it I would have thought it was from 10 years ago. GM SUV's are inane-looking, slab-sided boxes. Badge-engineering is a transparent joke - who doesn't know that an Escalade is a Suburban with a pimp grille, chrome wheels and a few more cows' worth of trim inside?
I think this thread hits the key point -- GM engineering really has gotten much better (Corvette especially - 500hp in the Z06, with respectable fuel economy and a competitive price). But image counts, even in the Civic part of the market, and GM products feel cheap and mass-assembled. My 2002 BMW 3 series was mass produced, but it felt like a $50K car. A rental Chevy Monte Carlo this year was just an embarrassment - cheap interior bits, plasticky beige dash that kind of matched the mouse fur seats but not really, heavy clunky doors, ugly squared off fenders with token accent lines -- just junk.
With a couple exceptions (Solstice being foremost), I don't think GM takes design as seriously as it takes cost. I can't think of a single category where GM makes a product I would choose to buy on any basis other than rebates.
Chevy Cobalt or Honda Civic? Pontiac G6 or BMW 325? (or VW Passat, or Lexus IS350) Cadillac DTS or BMW 5 series? Cadillac XRL or Mercedes SLK (or Lexus SC430)? Cadillac Escalade or BMW X5 (or Lexus RX330)? Chevy Trailblazer or Jeep Liberty? Chevy Suburban or VW Touraeg? Chevy Corvette or Porsche Cayman S? Pontiac GTO or Audi S4? Chevy Monte Carlo or -- OK, there's nothing else this tacky Pontiac Aztek or -- well, OK...
It's endless - GM doesn't have the "it" car in any category. Solstice versus Miata is a close contest, although the car mags seem to say 'Miata'.
GM needs to outsource all of its design to Pininfarina or some other company with a clue. After decades of ugly cars, it's obvious to me they just don't get it.
"GM needs to outsource all of its design to Pininfarina or some other company with a clue. After decades of ugly cars, it's obvious to me they just don't get it."
A bunch of Suzukis (rebadged Daewoos actually... real Suzukis look funky but are better cars) were designed by Giugiaro or some other Italian designer. And they suck.
That said, a third-party designer draws up the car, and then the manufacturer generally adds its own grille and/or lights. So those cars might not have been so ugly right out of the Giugiaro studios.
I have to comment on the post a while back regarding the cost of doing colored interiors. You have it backwards. When cheap low-market imports started to invade these shores, most had one or two interior color choices, usually a gray or a black. When those cars started to sell, the domestic makers decided they could save a few bucks by dropping colors inside and sticking consumers with GMs infamous "sea of gray" interior. That doesn't mean consumers WANTED those things, it's just that was all they could get.
Sorry, you are wrong. I am the one who made the decision to drop the blue and red interiors from the Century and Regal. The penetration was under 5% for each and the plant was hollering for part number reduction in the plants. They were not sellng. The gray and beige were selling. In fact the only place buying the red and blue were form the retiree areas of Florida. The Century/Regal were one of the last domestics to offer those colors.
Comments
Well different brands sell to different audiences. For example toyota is very conservative with the exception of the Scion TC and the Lexus IS300. The Lexus GS was a styling chance for them as well although they should have took the styling much further than they did iny opinion. Nissan and Chrysler sell alot of cars on style. Mazda has had success with getting younger buyers with the 3 and 6 with great looking sporty looking cars.
In my opinion GM's styling their SUV's look good and their Caddy line is getting a good reception although I don't care for it. Pontiac needs more styling. I miss the Pontiac styling theme of 1986-1991. I didn't like the switch to the cladded look with the release of the 92 Boneville, and 92 Grand AM.
Graduated High School in 1975. and worked part-time at a gas station.
Went to Michigan State University in fall of 1975 and completed one yr. in pre-med.
It got expensive and he was unsure if he wanted to continue, so he joined the Navy in 1976. He went to a training facility called "Great Lakes" where he learned the skill to become a radio repairman tech. He was in the Navy for 3 years and was on the U.S.S. Alamo, and I was born in Nov. 25, 1978 in U.S. Naval Hospital in Long Beach Cali.
Finished his service with the U.S. Navy, and came back home to G.R. Michigan. Had job interviews with the U.S. Postal Service, and General Motors. He took the Job at GM. He started out in production and quickly learned the skills to become a Job Setter from my Grandfather at the Wyoming Mi. Plant. He got transfered to the Coopersville, Mi. plant in 1990 give or take a yr. He was a job setter, and helped on some occasions set up new production lines with engineers. He later on went to school to become a certified screw machine operator, and shortly was know as the best operator in the plant. He did that for 3 years, until Delphi management at coopersville asked him if he'd be interested in running the aftermarket fuel injector line back at the Wyoming plant. (They had lots of extra space in the plant) He said yes. He's now currently in charge of after market parts, and opens the shop up in the morning and gets the machinery ready for porduction. A jobsetter typically performs maintence and repairs. If it's major, then a machine repairmen will assist the job setter to get the machine back on-line.
Production personel skills are various. Some simply put things togeather by hand or with high-tech machinery.
A GM assembly worker skills can range a great deal, from as simple as puting a part on a part, to operating a high tech robot or machinery such as a press.
The bottom line is that most autoworkers have a skill that without proper training, can't be self learned. It's not a skill that joe six-pack off the street can jump in and do the same day. It just takes a great deal of training to become efficient and reach production goals.
Rocky
Solstice?-what a wow.
Impala-plain but nice looking car for the masses and the volume. It is almost outselling the Accord already. Selling much higher numbers than last year with less fleet.
Lucerne-great looking from all reports I have read.
DTS-good looking but not much different than the old one so no surprises there. Already outselling the Deville with minimal stock.
Cobalt-yawner of a car but again does not offend anyone. (actually out as '05?)
Anything else I am missing?
I forgot the new G6 coupe. Easily as good or better looking than the Honda counterpart. In fact quite exciting.
any other new cars? Perhaps the Z06?--Wow, I drove one for a couple hours and the power is amazing.
There is the HHR which is selling as many as they can build due in most part to it's very different styling. GM brought it out just in time as the PT goes down with the old, yesterday's news styling. Probably a good time to pick up a used 3 year old PT!
No, the new styling for '06 will not save GM. They have great styling with the new models but it will take more than that to get sales back up and profitable.
Of course with gas reported to be going below $2 in a few months the large SUV's should gain some sales back.
Rocky
.Camaro-I-Roc and Z-28 .Jimmy
.Firebird/Trans-Am/Firehawk
.Syclone
.Velite .Typhoon
.Lucerne .Trailblazer
.Park Avenue .Cheyenne
.Corvette .Colorado
.Impala .Canyon
.Avalanche .Bel Aire
.Escalade .If GM would buy the rights to it
.Silverado how about DeLorean ?
.Sierra .Monte Carlo
.Eldorado .Grand-Am
.Seville . ETC ETC
.Deville
.GTO
.Grand Prix
.Aurora
.Yukon/Denali
.Tahoe
I agree with fintail and lemko, GM needs to drop the numerical/letters..... :mad:
Rocky
However, I do like the coupe. It looks like GM put a bit more effort into the styling here to come up with a more cohesive package. And I don't mind a coupe with a cramped back seat...after all, coupes are more style over function anyway.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sorry but that is the styling that will be coming out in most new cars. Very little front overhang (see BMW) and shorter overhang. Gives much more legroom on the interiors. G6 has huge rear seat legroom for a small midsize car. Your crampness is probably due to width?
I love the G6 sedan. It has a rakey look and very modern. I did not look at the rear seat legroom in the coupe but it is probably more than competitive.
Liked the HHR, but when 2 people get into it, too cramped up front, or behind the seats, for 4 adults.
Add sunroof...and little head room...
I read soemwhere the Fusion , for an example, gets (it's 6) 29 mpg hwy, Sonata 30MPG hwy, and G6 sedan 32 MPG hwy!
If 2006 styling is supposed to save GM...I wouldn't hold my breath. But it's better than the 2005 styling in just about every reskinned vehicle. For the money made by GM mucky mucks, I would expect at least this much change, and much more in the next 2 years. Did they hire new stylists or did the existing ones finally lay off the hard drugs?
On that note the local Saturn dealer here is advertising they'll have an Aura for viewing next week.
As for the rear seat, my evaluation of it is based on me actually sitting in the car, and not any published measurements. Compared to midsized cars like the Camry, Accord, Altima, Malibu, and Sebring, I'd consider it sub-par.
As for the Mazda3, I don't see quite the same styling "problem" that the G6 has. In the case of the 3, it looks kinda like two different cars joined at the B-pillar. Almost as if they took the front half of a small-ish upscale midsize and grafted on a stubby subcompact rear. And it shows on the inside, as the 3 is surprisingly roomy up front, but typical cramped subcompact in the back.
She said however she can't wait for the GXP version do next year.
Rocky
Per CR the G6 has the same rear legroom as an Avalon. There is a lot of variability in how legroom is perceived. Per CR they put the front seat at 40" and then measure the rear. But what about seat angle?, or cushion height? Lots of variables, but the G6 is very competitive in it's size range.
Consumer Reports Reports in iys review of the G6 blasted the G6 for rear seat and front seat access to the car I think. I think that killed its rating in Consumer Reports.
Actually it has a recommended buy from CU. They did comment that the coupelike sporty styling impedes rear access and rear visibility. If rear seat comfort is more important than styling for you I would recommend looking at a Chevrolet or Buick.
1. Legacy Costs, pension plans that are obscene in todays competitive world marketplace.
2. Bad Management: There are so many blunders, the major brands lack identity and relevance to todays marketplace. Who buys a Buick today? And when these people pass on?
3. Foreign Competition: Not only are the Japenese raising the bar ever higher but here comes China and India which are now manufacturing their own cars.
If I was a betting man my money would be on bankruptcy for GM although the government may decide to bail out GM which will simply delay the inevitable at our expense in debased currency.
Although many auto companies have come back from the brink of bankruptcy before.
Many people do. LeSabre has been the best selling full size sedan for many years. Add on Park Avenue sales and...
>And when these people pass on?
The same people who buy Accords when they pass on -- the people who used to 10 years younger but move into a different age group...????? I can explain further if you need.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yeah please explain further because I want to hear this.
I think there is to much competition to buy a car on styling alone. I believe that higher content quality, handling, safety, and value will rule the car buying public of tomorow. That's just my two cents as an enthusiast. I think the Bangle 3 series bimmer is butt ugly but would I drive one? Hell yes. When they say it's the ultimate driving machine they ain't lyin
What I meant by rating was it killed its overall score. The G6 scored a 51 out of 100. Where as the Mazda 6 V6 scored a 69, the Altima 4 cyl scored a 66, and the Mitsu Galant 4 cyl scored a 58. If not for the issue of rear access the score for the G6 would have been higher. Thats my point.
according to that cnn article posted last page, GM plans to make chevy "exiting" in style or something like that. Toyota and honda have not been exiting and they are EATING GM's LUNCH!
Let GM make the pontiac brand exiting and experiment with the style there, saturn too and even cadillac, but not your bread and butter, not Chevy! I think, while it is boring after seeing a few impalas on the road they do look much better in person, and the take - it - easy with out being too bland attitude is great and seems to be winning sales for GM.
Now, if they plan to have there chevy cars just look more expensive (like toyota is doing) that fine with me, since the style will not be eccentric just look better. How many people think this is true? Tell us what you think. If GM is going to go wild o the style, do it with desperate brands, not chevy.
PLEASE GM LISTEN TO US! :mad:
Rocky
That'll show GM to try to bring wages down to reality levels1!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A fundamental of business is knowing who you work for and GM years ago forgot they work for the customer.
Loren :shades:
My cousin's husband has worked for GM for 25 or so years and his job is to maintain that automated machinery. As he has worked in 2 plants (Tarrytown, NY and Oklahoma City, OK) in those 25 years, I'm guessing that he's quite good at what he does. I'm hoping that he lands on his feet after the OK plant closes; he's hoping to transfer to the plant in Moraine, OH.
Re: daycare -- I don't even want to go there. My wife is the director of a child care center (they take care of kids, not days) affiliated with a local school district. Trust me, after 20+ years in the business, she could write a book on what she's seen. Full time care for one child in the program is $130/week.
Fortunately, she's lucky enough to pay her staff well enough to get quality employees. Folks who work for the "chains" (La Petite, Children's Choice, etc.) are lucky to make Starbucks or Mickey D wages.
Rocky
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/12/20/184270.html
Perhaps it will help sales of the Ridgeline. It is in the niche market right now. Selling at about an annual rate of 60,000. Compare to the "loser" Colorado at 125,000 fot the year. The GMC Canyon will sell about 35,000 this year.
What is really amazing though is that the Ridgline has a 74 day supply out there which is unheard of for a Honda. Most Hondas are around 35 day supply.
At least they are better-looking than the Ridgeline. They are rather bashed for their mediocre performace and quality. Given that their starting price is half of that of the Ridgeline, they should sell better than the 10,800 average monthly sale.
The Colorado/Canyon has problems that go beyond style, though. It's really no bigger than the S-10 it replaced, and actually has a slightly LOWER towing/payload capacity! Along with the Ranger, the Colorado/Canyon seem to be the only "true" compact trucks left. Everything else, like the Tacoma, Dakota/Raider, and Frontier just seem like they're in a much bigger size class.
I think the Ridgeline's problem is that it suffers from the "kitchen sink" syndrome (as in, everything but...) Even in base form, it's very well-equipped and comes with nifty features like that storage well under the bed. So essentially, there are no "true" base models. And it's only available in one body style, and one engine choice. Now maybe this is the one engine and body style combination that would win the largest amount of buyers, but something like this really needs more variations.
I'm also guessing that the Ridgeline isn't a cheap truck to build. Unit-bodies traditionally make for a very poor truck, and in the Ridgeline's case it's no exception...so they slipped a full-length frame up underneath it to beef it up. I'm sure that wasn't a cheap way to build a truck. And as a result, they probably just can't afford to make a really basic version of it, or they'd never recoup their costs.
I never said the Ridgeline was a good looking truck. I would not buy one IMO all Hondas are OVERRATED and OVER PRICED! IF I had to buy a truck that size, I would have to "up size" probably to a Dodge Ram.
Granted, many places don't do anything beyond ensuring that the kid is alive and in one piece at the end of the day. My wife, OTOH, has a degree in early childhood education, and her program attempts to teach kids to love learning, so that they are a better student as they get older.
Even so, she has a fair amount of turnover amongst her staff each year. As you state, it's much worse at the "corporate" centers.
When I met my wife 9 years ago, she was earning $7/hr as an assistant director of a church-run pre-school program. Now, she's the director of all the early childhood programs (pre-school and child care) for a small (2600 student) school district and is making roughly $50K a year.
What's funny is that because she works for a school district, she refuses to drive a "prestige" name plate car. In fact, both her and one of the elementary school principals own Saturn VUE's - V6 with the AWD option. My wife's is blue, the principal's is black.
Loren
Take the canyon/colorado platform and build a small suv with AWD for the typhoon. The syclone needs to be a single cab AWD. Put a 6-speed auto with TAPshift/manumatic.
Ok for the engine. I'd take a 3.6 liter H.O. and Twin Turbo it like the Buick Velite/Grand National GNX concepts.
I'd give em' 450 hp.- enough to whip the SRT-8 Hemi Grand Cherokee and Dodge Ram SRT-10 :P
I'd also add a powerful surround sound system and make it livable with some creature features.
Rocky
GM hasn't had good styling generally since the days of Bill Mitchell. While there have been a few isolated good designs here and there, GMs days of styling leadership seem long past. That is tragic given the rich history -- heck, the company for all intents and purposes INVENTED automobile styling under Harley Earl.
I have to comment on the post a while back regarding the cost of doing colored interiors. You have it backwards. When cheap low-market imports started to invade these shores, most had one or two interior color choices, usually a gray or a black. When those cars started to sell, the domestic makers decided they could save a few bucks by dropping colors inside and sticking consumers with GMs infamous "sea of gray" interior. That doesn't mean consumers WANTED those things, it's just that was all they could get. It's the same with roof seams that don't get metalfinished anymore, just filled with an insert strip. Not better, just cheaper.
I'm amazed that none of the domestic manufacturers have brought back some tastefully executed colorful interiors as a point of differentiation. I for one would love to see a red, blue, green, or cream interior again from GM.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
But even amidst weak design competition GM is faltering, probably due to its conservatism and the beancounter mentality that is both a cause and effect of its slip into bankruptcy.
I passed a newer Buick Crossfire (?) (looked like a Park Avenue-type sedan with portholes on the fenders) yesterday on the freeway, and if it hadn't had recent California plates on it I would have thought it was from 10 years ago. GM SUV's are inane-looking, slab-sided boxes. Badge-engineering is a transparent joke - who doesn't know that an Escalade is a Suburban with a pimp grille, chrome wheels and a few more cows' worth of trim inside?
I think this thread hits the key point -- GM engineering really has gotten much better (Corvette especially - 500hp in the Z06, with respectable fuel economy and a competitive price). But image counts, even in the Civic part of the market, and GM products feel cheap and mass-assembled. My 2002 BMW 3 series was mass produced, but it felt like a $50K car. A rental Chevy Monte Carlo this year was just an embarrassment - cheap interior bits, plasticky beige dash that kind of matched the mouse fur seats but not really, heavy clunky doors, ugly squared off fenders with token accent lines -- just junk.
With a couple exceptions (Solstice being foremost), I don't think GM takes design as seriously as it takes cost. I can't think of a single category where GM makes a product I would choose to buy on any basis other than rebates.
Chevy Cobalt or Honda Civic?
Pontiac G6 or BMW 325? (or VW Passat, or Lexus IS350)
Cadillac DTS or BMW 5 series?
Cadillac XRL or Mercedes SLK (or Lexus SC430)?
Cadillac Escalade or BMW X5 (or Lexus RX330)?
Chevy Trailblazer or Jeep Liberty?
Chevy Suburban or VW Touraeg?
Chevy Corvette or Porsche Cayman S?
Pontiac GTO or Audi S4?
Chevy Monte Carlo or -- OK, there's nothing else this tacky
Pontiac Aztek or -- well, OK...
It's endless - GM doesn't have the "it" car in any category. Solstice versus Miata is a close contest, although the car mags seem to say 'Miata'.
GM needs to outsource all of its design to Pininfarina or some other company with a clue. After decades of ugly cars, it's obvious to me they just don't get it.
Damn, I'm ranting. Sorry. GM's just lost, IMO.
That's because they spread one design over too many divisions
A bunch of Suzukis (rebadged Daewoos actually... real Suzukis look funky but are better cars) were designed by Giugiaro or some other Italian designer. And they suck.
That said, a third-party designer draws up the car, and then the manufacturer generally adds its own grille and/or lights. So those cars might not have been so ugly right out of the Giugiaro studios.
Sorry, you are wrong. I am the one who made the decision to drop the blue and red interiors from the Century and Regal. The penetration was under 5% for each and the plant was hollering for part number reduction in the plants. They were not sellng. The gray and beige were selling. In fact the only place buying the red and blue were form the retiree areas of Florida. The Century/Regal were one of the last domestics to offer those colors.
To each his own. I love the Avalanche. Then again I like the G6, Corvette, Solstice, STS, LaCrosse, Lucerne.