Well, my grandparents '89 Taurus had this stuff on the door panels called CLOTH! Perhaps you've heard of it? Nowadays, where they used to put cloth on the doorpanels, today you're usually lucky if it's vinyl. Often it's just soft-touch plastic. Or even hard-touch plastic. And its carpeting was a bit plusher than the pubic hair texture stuff they put in cars nowadays.
Now I'll say the LaCrosse is better than the Regal it replaced. My Dad has an '03 Regal, and its interior is awash in hard plastics, mis-matched textures, poor alignment of interior pieces, and seats that have this covering that looks like burlap sack material, although it's actually nice to the touch.
You constantly comment on the Camry; have you DRIVEN an '07 Camry?
I have. I like it. The one thing that is keeping me from buying it (2 things) is the ride (too blah) and the interior (too blah). I have nothing against the Camry.
The main thing drawing me to the Camry is the hybrid. And the Lucerne certainly can't compete on that front.
I think I am misunderstanding something. What did/do people use for dash boards when they aren't using plastic?
Well, once upon a time, dashboards were usually padded. Okay, so the vinyl covering and the foam padding underneath were a plastic derivative, so ya got me there. But nowadays many cars use hard plastic. About the only advantages I can see are that it's cheaper to manufacture, and it's probably less likely to crack than the padded stuff as it ages.
Well, once upon a time, dashboards were usually padded.
I get it - the distinction is between "hard" and "not hard" not "plastic" and "not plastic"
I agree that there are less padded dashes out there. Not sure I focused on that in the Lucerne.
All I know is I was really impressed with the interior look and feel, including the hand of the materials I touched. Way nicer experience than the Camry's I drove.
Test-drove a Rendezvous in 2002 for a $10 pizza coupon. To be frank, I don't remember the driving experience (because I was more interested in the coupon... not that the vehicle was forgettable). I remember that I relished the free pizza with free beer - I was working for Miller Brewing Company (Milwauee-WI) then and I used to get three 24 packs every month.
The same month or probably little later I test-drove the all new Nissan Altima for a Kenneth Cole watch :P
The Rendezvous is/was fine, for what it was. People wanted it to be a Lexus RX300...or a Yukon.....
it wasn't designed to be either of those. It was, basically, a poor man's RX300, and it was fine for that. I am not saying that they hit the mark with it, but it was not a "bad" vehicle.
If GM cars didn't have the stupid MSRP/Actual Purchase Price disparity, we'd be a lot happier with GM's product.
Actually, poor man and Lexus can't go hand-in-glove. Buick makes no sense. Ditto for Pontiac, GMC and Saturn. I said before that GM needs to focus on Chevy and Caddy. Let us have Chevy Enclave and Chevy Aura. And, let say no to fleet sales with these new Chevys rolling in. Caddy is in a decent shape - just let us have redesigned CTS and Escalade every five years.
Have you ever explained how GM is supposed to buy off the Buick/Pontiac and GMC dealers? Or why GM would want to kill off Saturn where the dealers have the most manufacturer freindly contract (and not coincidently one of the highest consumer rated) dealerships?
just let us have redesigned CTS and Escalade every five years.
Actually, you have been getting new 'Slades in around 4 years time to date, and will get the new CTS in around 4.5 years.
If GM cars didn't have the stupid MSRP/Actual Purchase Price disparity, we'd be a lot happier with GM's product.
Like I say Alp, I have owned at least 9 new GM's (for the record 1 new Ford, 1 Chrysler and 2 Jeeps) and I don't have a problem with any of my cars. Why do people buy Toyotas and Hondas more and more and less GM's, Fords and Chryslers. Are people being duped, is there a conspiracy theory, is it in our imagination?
I hear of horror stories from the former Big 3, but I hear only good things about Japanese and Asian cars. Is this just imaginary?
The strong point about American cars is probably the size, amount of metal you get for your dollar, and there seems to be more "stuff" like chrome, trim, gadgets, do-dads. Asian cars are more basic, but they seem to put more money into engineering, refinement, and making a car that is durable and long lasting.
Generally, the customer is moving from American to foreign, and if American cars are superior, as the GM fans keep telling us, why are people not buying them?
I am fairly neutral about this. I have no axe to grind with any auto company, but from what I have seen and heard and by observation the foreign companies lead the way in engineering, reliability, styling, driving experience, ownership satisfaction and just overall value. I would like to like a LaCrosse or Monte Carlo, but I just see a big bloated piece of metal. I don't see smooth clean lines that flow, I don't see innovative styling, I don't see a car that will still look good in 10 or 20 years. When I think of push-rods, lack of ABS and airbags, no RWD, no AWD I think "maybe a little behind technologically speaking".
So, explain, is this a big scam or are all these people crazy?
"Towards the end the article says that styling doesn't matter."
Well, I think the economy and reliability of the Civic are important, but the thing does have very slick styling. The last generation of Civic was reliable and economical, but its styling was rather boring. The last generation of Civic sold well, but it wasn't flying off the lots at close to msrp like the current Civic. I think style does have something to do with the strong sales, but pehraps it is just frosting on the cake of a very good car.
Make Chevy and Caddy dealers most friendly. Why waste energy on Saturn? GM doesn't have to buy off Buick/ Pontiac dealers - GM should stop providing 0% APR deals on Buick/ Pontiac and that would take care of the dealerships. And, buying out a few more employees can't hurt if buying out 35000 didn't.
I will buy both CTS and Escalade if I win a lottery. Those are 2 GM cars that I want. I also want a Corvette - but I can't drive stick very well.
My grandparents had a 1989 Taurus LX, which at the time was the highest trim level short of the SHO. It was a really nice car. Now that car has been gone for 13 years and my memory might be a bit fuzzy, but I'd say it had a nicer interior than any current LaCrosse.
My father had a 1987 Taurus LX, and it had a nicer interior than any Ford, Mercury, or Lincoln built today. His 1993 Taurus GL was not nearly as impressive, although it had better air conditioning.
- GM should stop providing 0% APR deals on Buick/ Pontiac and that would take care of the dealerships. And, buying out a few more employees can't hurt if buying out 35000 didn't.
Dealership workers are not employees of GM, they are employees of the dealers.
Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealers would sue GM en masse if it fed Chevy and Cadillac and starved them.
Chevy and Cadillac dealers cannot be forced to change their contracts with GM. Most states have very strong legislation protecting dealers.
why Ford is doing it? GM probably has too many dealerships. By having 35,000 people retire, GM is trying to control production since their market share has dropped (make sense; fewer cars in the fleet and rental). One method of raising resale value. Also allows them to increase quality. By making fewer vehicles, it may lead dealers to leave through attrition.
Guys, why hasn't anyone braught up YET the new 6.0 LS-2 Pontiac Grand Prix RWD :P I must say I like it !!!! Buh Bye G8 name and welcome Grand Prix RWD. Buh Bye BMW :P the new 3 series has arrived front and center. I must say GM, is listening and delivering FINALLY.
I also clicked on the GMC website and to my disbelief they had 2007' GMT 900 photo's up already. :surprise: I also was SHOCKED to see a interior photo shop of the stereo equipment and saw what GM told me was unavailable a month or so ago a Dolby Digital & DTS logo on the navi/audio equipment. It about braught tears to my eyes to see GM listening to me about bring DVD-Audio technology to the 2007' GMC Sierra Denali Pick-up I loved so much. That means I will have to probably order me one. What, Rocky finally found a ride that meets his very critical specs ? :surprise: Yup !!!!! Can you blame me for wanting a Black 2007' Sierra Denali pick-up with 20's and a Z-71 off road package with a 6.2 V-8 packing 400hp. ? Now the question is can I get one with the 2-stage hybrid ? I left a voice message with GMC customer service to find out the hard facts. Rocky might just not be a General Motors fan, but a owner once again if the photo's I saw are true. Oh yeah the DVD-Navi has voice recognition capability also
Well I also need to find out more about the Grand Prix. I must admit I was blown away to reach into the mailbox and find a Grand Prix on the front cover of the October Motor Trend. It probably won't be out for a few years, but it's a sign to me GM, is finally listening to it's customers and folks that's a good sign to me that GM will be #1 like Rick Wagoner said for the next 80 yrs. I know I sound GM punch drunk, but I've read lots of info on GM's product lines over the last week and boy oh boy GM's future looks very bright.
Was curious as to how the CTS was selling versus its rivals. July 2006 sales figures:
Lexus ES - 7,803 BMW 3-Series - 6,859 Acura TL - 6,304 Cadillac CTS - 5,623 (down from 6,338 last June) Mercedes C-Class - 5,285 Lexus IS - 4,848 Acura TSX - 3,799 Infiniti G35 - 3,129 Lincoln Zephyr - 3,027 Audi A4 - 2,501 Volvo S60 - 2,208 Volvo S40 - 2,065 Saab 9-3 - 1,730
AIC Autosite's figures are a bit weird though. They have incorrect names ("Forenzo", "3.2 TL", IS300), they list models long-since discontinued (300M, Prizm and Escort all have entirely blank rows of data) and apparently they've sold one Infiniti G20 year to date :surprise: What, did they find it in a barn behind the Infiniti dealership?
Of course these are monthly figures so they don't really mean much... does anyone know where I can get good annual figures from? I can't wait until the end of the year... it would be nice to see how some of GM's new products have performed.
The '07 GP isn't a-go. That is something Holden is having Wagoner & Lutz look at. It's basically their Commodore I believe with an artist rendering of a Poncho front-end on it. Holden feels it can supply a NA Pontiac version once demand for their vehicle drops somewhat after the the initial couple of years, as has been in the past. Basically there's excitement / high demand for the car the first two years then demand drops somewhat, so adding the Pontiac version will help keep the plant running at / near capacity.
Word is Lutz and Wagoner have a couple of these up in Detroit. But I think if they do it they'll muff it a la GTO.
The door panels on my 1988 Buick Park Avenue are made from several materials aside from plastic. There is velour cloth along the top with geniuine bright METAL trim, woodgrain, brushed ALUMINUM, (not the silver-painted plastic) and plush carpet. On today's cars you get a big slab of plastic - doesn't matter whether the car is domestic or foreign
I was talking about GM employees who would have to go when plants that make Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn are idled.
Dealerships should be allowed to die naturally. Guess what - they may switch to Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or Chevy/ Caddy (if not located too close to another Chevy/ Caddy dealer).
Why would the dealers sue GM if GM offers 0% APR on Chevy and no such deal on Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn? Can't GM choose what it wants to promote?
When Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn are gone, GM would be able to focus on making Chevy and Caddy the best in the business.
Current situation is unbelievable - if you go to our local Chevy dealer and tell that you don't like the Malibu, the dealer would suggest that I visit their Pontiac showroom and test-drive a G6. This makes no sense. Apparently, GM offers a lots of choice - but to find something good you will need to hop from one place to another and skim through a bunch of boring cars.
Also, if I have a Chevy that I want to trade in for something new and I don't like the new Chevys, I switch to other brands. I don't necessarily switch to Pontiac (unless I have a GM card, loyalty certificates, employee discounts, etc. - in which case GM doesn't make much by selling the car to me) I guess many have switched to Hondas and Toyotas because they couldn't find a Chevy G6.
Again, way forward for GM: get rid of all other brands except Chevy and Caddy, and cut fleet sales to 5% of overall sales (it's 5% for Toyota, 1% for Honda). No brand engineering, no fleet sales and lots of new Chevys/ Caddys (Chevy Enclave, Chevy Aura, ...) will make a big difference.
I think that might also be a lower-level Taurus. IIRC, the LX had a standard tachometer. However, the overall dash design would be about the same. And one thing I'll say for it, it looks like it has nice, comfy seats. Here's a closeup of the switchgear on the driver's door. Looks like they put some effort here, with the generous use of cloth padding, and the plaluminum trim around the plood. And yeah, there's still a lot of hard plastic on that interior, but they balanced it out better with the cloth. I don't know how well it would wear though, with the cloth carrying down onto the armrest, though.
I'll give them credit for the chrome door handle, but that's about it. The rest of that door panel really isn't anything to brag about. If anything, it makes me think a bit of the '73 Nova, which was one of the first cars to use an interior door panel of soft-touch plastic, and had kind of a rubbery feel to it, instead of the usual panel that was just a thin vinyl pattern with a bit of foam padding behind it, attached to a particle board backing.
Oh, and a '73 Nova probbaly had a chrome door handle too. That's chrome METAL, not plastic. :P
Overall I don't think it's a horrible door panel, but just nothing to get excited about. I do like the way they worked the defroster vents into the door so they hit the window directly, though. I had a friend whos 1980 Accord did the same thing. My 2000 Intrepid has small vents that aim at the door windows, but they're still mounted in the dash, so they're not as close.
I was talking about GM employees who would have to go when plants that make Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn are idled.
Then you are suggesting something GM doesn't want. GM does not want to lose sales. GM wants more profitable sales.
Dealerships should be allowed to die naturally. Guess what - they may switch to Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or Chevy/ Caddy (if not located too close to another Chevy/ Caddy dealer).
GM, as is Ford, will do what it can to encourage marginal dealerships to close. Both are limited under old contract guarantees and state law.
Why would the dealers sue GM if GM offers 0% APR on Chevy and no such deal on Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn? Can't GM choose what it wants to promote?
Generous language in contracts sometimes written 30 or even 50 years ago, state law, and common law. GM cannot favor one set of franchisees over another set with the same contract. The reason GM likes Saturn so much is that its dealers all have newer contracts that were favor the manufacturer over the dealer and better reflect the modern market.
Current situation is unbelievable - if you go to our local Chevy dealer and tell that you don't like the Malibu, the dealer would suggest that I visit their Pontiac showroom and test-drive a G6. This makes no sense. Apparently, GM offers a lots of choice - but to find something good you will need to hop from one place to another and skim through a bunch of boring cars.
If GM had its way, it would probably be Chevrolet, Saturn, Cadillac, with GMC selling commercial trucks and vans only. Auto Dealerships have long been among the larger local based businesses. As such, they are very influential with local politicians. The local politicians have all to happily enacted legislation that makes it very hard for manufacturers to alter agreements with dealers, even where the agreements were drafted with the market of the early 1950s or 1960s in mind.
Again, way forward for GM: get rid of all other brands except Chevy and Caddy, and cut fleet sales to 5% of overall sales (it's 5% for Toyota, 1% for Honda). No brand engineering, no fleet sales and lots of new Chevys/ Caddys (Chevy Enclave, Chevy Aura, ...) will make a big difference.
And so we come full circle. Other than a slow process of attrition, how is this done affordably?
I always had issues with the Altima's interior. My biggest complaint is the gauge cluster, the way they just plopped it down right on the dashboard, like an afterthought. And that silver plastic is really getting old. Unless it's real chrome or at least brushed aluminum/metal, let's just leave it out.
But on the plus side, the Altima has cloth on the doorpanels, which IMO helps offset some of the parts of the interior I don't like. And it's a roomy, comfy car that fits me well, so I give it bonus points for that.
All the GM owners in my family marvel at the roomy back seat in my Altima. My Mom asked me, "How is the back seat so much bigger than my Impala when the car is so much smaller?"
Mine is an 03. It's quite comfy but there is obvious cost cutting particularly on the door panels. The 05 redesign addressed most of the issues and the 07 is going to the next level.
All the GM owners in my family marvel at the roomy back seat in my Altima. My Mom asked me, "How is the back seat so much bigger than my Impala when the car is so much smaller?"
I test drove an '02 Altima years ago, and at the time I remember being really impressed that the front seat went back further than my Intrepid. And even in making that seat go back that far, it didn't seem to sacrifice back seat comfort one bit. I think the Altima's a bit more slab-sided than the Intrepid as well, so even though it's not quite as wide inside with respect to shoulder room, the windows and roof pillars also don't curve in quite as far, so that contributes to a more spacious feeling.
I think the Altima makes a good case for the argument that interior materials aren't everything. Yeah, it's a bit sub-par here and there, and you can see some cost cutting, but they still managed to put enough other features in the car, like the great powertrain, roomy interior, nice styling (okay, that's subjective but I like it alot), good handling, etc, and ended up with a package that sells well without a lot of begging.
I cross shopped 7 or 8 cars before I bought and found that the Alt was the best package in the price range. To me, it was both the sportiest and had the roomist interior. The interior materials were a compromise but at sub-20s, you have to give up something.
Funny thing is that my wife is 4'10". When she drives, I climb into the back and stretch out.
What in the heck are all the controls for? I mean, beyond a simple switch for the window and the door lock, what else would you have on the door?
Instead I see what looks like a little paddle switch in front of the door pull, a long flat switch of some description (with a red button and a blue button), another button on the piece of wood trim (or is that a little slider that goes up/down?), a door 'lock/unlock' button in front of the handle, and THEN the actual door lock button above the chrome handle? (BTW - why have a seperate 'lock/unlock' button?).
Not to mention the fact that EACH SWITCH looks to be a different type. What a mishmash.
And where's the bottle holder in the lower portion of the door panel? Is there a speaker behind the cloth portion of the lower panel - or is the ONLY speaker in that little triangular enclosure at the top? Usually, there is a larger midrange down low with just a small tweeter up high; surely that speaker at the top isn't the ONLY speaker in that door?
Well, let's see: all the controls logically arranged in a single plane. No extraneous controls. So far so good.
Map pocket looks small with no cup holder. Nice large speaker enclosure (but doesn't look as though there is a seperate tweeter).
Hmmm, no wood on the door. I don't suppose you took a picture of the uplevel GM car and a low level Camry (purposely avoiding the XLE with the wood trim)?
Controls: Toggle switch is window up/down. Flat switch is the passenger temperature control (red, warmer; blue, cooler). Seat heater switch Door lock/unlock
There's a large speaker behind the carpet at the bottom. I believe that would be an 8 speaker system.
"If GM had its way, it would probably be Chevrolet, Saturn, Cadillac, with GMC selling commercial trucks and vans only."
I hope GM finds its away and finds SOON! Though I hate the Blazer that I got rid of, I don't want GM to go out of business. I want a lean and competitive GM - competition is good for consumers like me.
In fact, the various GM brands don't offer distinctive styling and products (they could if they had separate market research and product development organizations). Currently, all vehicles are developed by one team and then some kind of bizzare rationing and brand engineering takes place, e.g. Chevy will get Equinox but not the Honda V6 in Saturn Vue, Pontiac will get a version of Equinox but will not get a version of HHR, etc. This leaves the consumer confused.
Toyota, Honda also build multiple vehicles from the same platform - but the products are most of the time distinctive and the nameplates are very stable (unlike Grand Am becoming G6 or Century becoming LaCrosse). Styling isn't just about the shape or interior materials - styling is also about being distinctive and standing out.
I don't like it. The door panel has the dreaded soap-bar-carving look, the dark insert clashes with the rest of the color scheme, the pull handle area looks haphazard, that weird lump inboard of the mirror looks like an afterthought, and the mouse fur at the bottom of the door is going to collect all kinds of dirt from people kicking it.
"Flat switch is the passenger temperature control (red, warmer; blue, cooler)."
So, scattering HVAC controls all over the cabin is GOOD? Does this mean that the driver's door has the driver's side temp control?
"Seat heater switch"
Again, interesting placement. I take it that with the GM car the seat heater is either "on" or "off". Most vehicles these days have a 3-position switch to allow at LEAST a "low" and "high" setting.
"Door lock/unlock"
Still trying to figure out why there's a SEPERATE button for this rather than just the button (with the red part showing for "unlock") above the door handle.
OK, good to know there's a larger speaker down low; so why is the upper tweeter enclosure so big?
BTW - nice going showing the CURRENT GM door panel (Lucerne?) but an OLD model Camry(?) door panel (probably from a CE or LE model).
I realize that you are attempting to make a point regarding the quality of "foreign" (Toyota/Honda?) door panels vs. GM panels; BUT....
...it might be helpful if you included the YEAR MODEL of the door panel in the photo and whether we are looking at a base/stripper model or a higher trim.
I like the fact that this one has the cloth insert in the door panel. What is it, an '00-04 Avalon? Otherwise though, it looks like it has too many pieces to it. I'd imagine only the top, darker part and the part comprising the armrest is soft-touch. I do like the way the armrest is full-length and curves up. And I like the little pull-out storage compartment. Makes me think of the little storage compartments under the armrests that they used to put in 70's Imperials.
I guess no cupholder in the lower part of the door could be considered a minus, but I always thought that was an awkward spot to put a cup, anyway. As long as the center console has a decent-sized cupholder, I'm satisfied.
I think gray interiors are often hard to pull off, because gray is a somewhat harsh color, and will accentuate any cheapness, hard plastics, etc. Gray almost demands plusher materials to help offset the harshness if you want it to look upscale.
However, I do like this door panel. What is it, an Altima? The only thing I really don't like is those power window switches, the kind where you have to hook your finger under them and lift them to put the windows up. I know it's a safety feature, because it means you have to put a bit more willpower into it if you want to decapitate yourself, but i just find 'em more awkward than the type that you just push forward/back, or the rocker switch type.
This last (#3 example) does have a light to light up the ground at night and to serve as a warning to oncoming cars behind. The material immediately above the arm rest looks like soft material, but the arm rest looks hard to me. The whole door panel does look nicer than the previous two. All of these seem like lower end door panels to me.
Comments
I agree it is not a "luxury" car, but it has more luxo quality than a Camry
Now I'll say the LaCrosse is better than the Regal it replaced. My Dad has an '03 Regal, and its interior is awash in hard plastics, mis-matched textures, poor alignment of interior pieces, and seats that have this covering that looks like burlap sack material, although it's actually nice to the touch.
I have. I like it. The one thing that is keeping me from buying it (2 things) is the ride (too blah) and the interior (too blah). I have nothing against the Camry.
The main thing drawing me to the Camry is the hybrid. And the Lucerne certainly can't compete on that front.
Well, once upon a time, dashboards were usually padded. Okay, so the vinyl covering and the foam padding underneath were a plastic derivative, so ya got me there. But nowadays many cars use hard plastic. About the only advantages I can see are that it's cheaper to manufacture, and it's probably less likely to crack than the padded stuff as it ages.
:P
I did like the early-80s-era Regal better than the most recent. They did ruin that car.
I get it - the distinction is between "hard" and "not hard" not "plastic" and "not plastic"
I agree that there are less padded dashes out there. Not sure I focused on that in the Lucerne.
All I know is I was really impressed with the interior look and feel, including the hand of the materials I touched. Way nicer experience than the Camry's I drove.
Towards the end the article says that styling doesn't matter.
The same month or probably little later I test-drove the all new Nissan Altima for a Kenneth Cole watch :P
it wasn't designed to be either of those. It was, basically, a poor man's RX300, and it was fine for that. I am not saying that they hit the mark with it, but it was not a "bad" vehicle.
If GM cars didn't have the stupid MSRP/Actual Purchase Price disparity, we'd be a lot happier with GM's product.
just let us have redesigned CTS and Escalade every five years.
Actually, you have been getting new 'Slades in around 4 years time to date, and will get the new CTS in around 4.5 years.
Like I say Alp, I have owned at least 9 new GM's (for the record 1 new Ford, 1 Chrysler and 2 Jeeps) and I don't have a problem with any of my cars. Why do people buy Toyotas and Hondas more and more and less GM's, Fords and Chryslers. Are people being duped, is there a conspiracy theory, is it in our imagination?
I hear of horror stories from the former Big 3, but I hear only good things about Japanese and Asian cars. Is this just imaginary?
The strong point about American cars is probably the size, amount of metal you get for your dollar, and there seems to be more "stuff" like chrome, trim, gadgets, do-dads. Asian cars are more basic, but they seem to put more money into engineering, refinement, and making a car that is durable and long lasting.
Generally, the customer is moving from American to foreign, and if American cars are superior, as the GM fans keep telling us, why are people not buying them?
I am fairly neutral about this. I have no axe to grind with any auto company, but from what I have seen and heard and by observation the foreign companies lead the way in engineering, reliability, styling, driving experience, ownership satisfaction and just overall value.
I would like to like a LaCrosse or Monte Carlo, but I just see a big bloated piece of metal. I don't see smooth clean lines that flow, I don't see innovative styling, I don't see a car that will still look good in 10 or 20 years. When I think of push-rods, lack of ABS and airbags, no RWD, no AWD I think "maybe a little behind technologically speaking".
So, explain, is this a big scam or are all these people crazy?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, I think the economy and reliability of the Civic are important, but the thing does have very slick styling. The last generation of Civic was reliable and economical, but its styling was rather boring. The last generation of Civic sold well, but it wasn't flying off the lots at close to msrp like the current Civic. I think style does have something to do with the strong sales, but pehraps it is just frosting on the cake of a very good car.
I will buy both CTS and Escalade if I win a lottery. Those are 2 GM cars that I want. I also want a Corvette - but I can't drive stick very well.
My father had a 1987 Taurus LX, and it had a nicer interior than any Ford, Mercury, or Lincoln built today. His 1993 Taurus GL was not nearly as impressive, although it had better air conditioning.
I can't think of any recent Ford/Merc/Lincoln products I've been in recently
but many posts in this forum show that memory can play tricks on you
yikes!! THAT's not nicer than ANY car made today.
And it's probably holding up well. I have found the cloths since my 1977 Cutlass have always been good in my GM cars; Olds and then Buicks.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Dealership workers are not employees of GM, they are employees of the dealers.
Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealers would sue GM en masse if it fed Chevy and Cadillac and starved them.
Chevy and Cadillac dealers cannot be forced to change their contracts with GM. Most states have very strong legislation protecting dealers.
Any more ideas?
I also clicked on the GMC website and to my disbelief they had 2007' GMT 900 photo's up already. :surprise: I also was SHOCKED to see a interior photo shop of the stereo equipment and saw what GM told me was unavailable a month or so ago a Dolby Digital & DTS logo on the navi/audio equipment. It about braught tears to my eyes
Well I also need to find out more about the Grand Prix. I must admit I was blown away to reach into the mailbox and find a Grand Prix on the front cover of the October Motor Trend. It probably won't be out for a few years, but it's a sign to me GM, is finally listening to it's customers and folks that's a good sign to me that GM will be #1 like Rick Wagoner said for the next 80 yrs. I know I sound GM punch drunk, but I've read lots of info on GM's product lines over the last week and boy oh boy GM's future looks very bright.
Rocky
Lexus ES - 7,803
BMW 3-Series - 6,859
Acura TL - 6,304
Cadillac CTS - 5,623 (down from 6,338 last June)
Mercedes C-Class - 5,285
Lexus IS - 4,848
Acura TSX - 3,799
Infiniti G35 - 3,129
Lincoln Zephyr - 3,027
Audi A4 - 2,501
Volvo S60 - 2,208
Volvo S40 - 2,065
Saab 9-3 - 1,730
AIC Autosite's figures are a bit weird though. They have incorrect names ("Forenzo", "3.2 TL", IS300), they list models long-since discontinued (300M, Prizm and Escort all have entirely blank rows of data) and apparently they've sold one Infiniti G20 year to date :surprise: What, did they find it in a barn behind the Infiniti dealership?
Of course these are monthly figures so they don't really mean much... does anyone know where I can get good annual figures from? I can't wait until the end of the year... it would be nice to see how some of GM's new products have performed.
The '07 GP isn't a-go. That is something Holden is having Wagoner & Lutz look at. It's basically their Commodore I believe with an artist rendering of a Poncho front-end on it. Holden feels it can supply a NA Pontiac version once demand for their vehicle drops somewhat after the the initial couple of years, as has been in the past. Basically there's excitement / high demand for the car the first two years then demand drops somewhat, so adding the Pontiac version will help keep the plant running at / near capacity.
Word is Lutz and Wagoner have a couple of these up in Detroit. But I think if they do it they'll muff it a la GTO.
Dealerships should be allowed to die naturally. Guess what - they may switch to Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or Chevy/ Caddy (if not located too close to another Chevy/ Caddy dealer).
Why would the dealers sue GM if GM offers 0% APR on Chevy and no such deal on Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn? Can't GM choose what it wants to promote?
When Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn are gone, GM would be able to focus on making Chevy and Caddy the best in the business.
Current situation is unbelievable - if you go to our local Chevy dealer and tell that you don't like the Malibu, the dealer would suggest that I visit their Pontiac showroom and test-drive a G6. This makes no sense. Apparently, GM offers a lots of choice - but to find something good you will need to hop from one place to another and skim through a bunch of boring cars.
Also, if I have a Chevy that I want to trade in for something new and I don't like the new Chevys, I switch to other brands. I don't necessarily switch to Pontiac (unless I have a GM card, loyalty certificates, employee discounts, etc. - in which case GM doesn't make much by selling the car to me) I guess many have switched to Hondas and Toyotas because they couldn't find a Chevy G6.
Again, way forward for GM: get rid of all other brands except Chevy and Caddy, and cut fleet sales to 5% of overall sales (it's 5% for Toyota, 1% for Honda). No brand engineering, no fleet sales and lots of new Chevys/ Caddys (Chevy Enclave, Chevy Aura, ...) will make a big difference.
How does this look?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oh, and a '73 Nova probbaly had a chrome door handle too. That's chrome METAL, not plastic. :P
Overall I don't think it's a horrible door panel, but just nothing to get excited about. I do like the way they worked the defroster vents into the door so they hit the window directly, though. I had a friend whos 1980 Accord did the same thing. My 2000 Intrepid has small vents that aim at the door windows, but they're still mounted in the dash, so they're not as close.
Then you are suggesting something GM doesn't want. GM does not want to lose sales. GM wants more profitable sales.
Dealerships should be allowed to die naturally. Guess what - they may switch to Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or Chevy/ Caddy (if not located too close to another Chevy/ Caddy dealer).
GM, as is Ford, will do what it can to encourage marginal dealerships to close. Both are limited under old contract guarantees and state law.
Why would the dealers sue GM if GM offers 0% APR on Chevy and no such deal on Pontiac/ Buick/ GMC/ Saturn? Can't GM choose what it wants to promote?
Generous language in contracts sometimes written 30 or even 50 years ago, state law, and common law. GM cannot favor one set of franchisees over another set with the same contract. The reason GM likes Saturn so much is that its dealers all have newer contracts that were favor the manufacturer over the dealer and better reflect the modern market.
Current situation is unbelievable - if you go to our local Chevy dealer and tell that you don't like the Malibu, the dealer would suggest that I visit their Pontiac showroom and test-drive a G6. This makes no sense. Apparently, GM offers a lots of choice - but to find something good you will need to hop from one place to another and skim through a bunch of boring cars.
If GM had its way, it would probably be Chevrolet, Saturn, Cadillac, with GMC selling commercial trucks and vans only. Auto Dealerships have long been among the larger local based businesses. As such, they are very influential with local politicians. The local politicians have all to happily enacted legislation that makes it very hard for manufacturers to alter agreements with dealers, even where the agreements were drafted with the market of the early 1950s or 1960s in mind.
Again, way forward for GM: get rid of all other brands except Chevy and Caddy, and cut fleet sales to 5% of overall sales (it's 5% for Toyota, 1% for Honda). No brand engineering, no fleet sales and lots of new Chevys/ Caddys (Chevy Enclave, Chevy Aura, ...) will make a big difference.
And so we come full circle. Other than a slow process of attrition, how is this done affordably?
But on the plus side, the Altima has cloth on the doorpanels, which IMO helps offset some of the parts of the interior I don't like. And it's a roomy, comfy car that fits me well, so I give it bonus points for that.
Mine is an 03. It's quite comfy but there is obvious cost cutting particularly on the door panels. The 05 redesign addressed most of the issues and the 07 is going to the next level.
How does this compare to the previous door?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I test drove an '02 Altima years ago, and at the time I remember being really impressed that the front seat went back further than my Intrepid. And even in making that seat go back that far, it didn't seem to sacrifice back seat comfort one bit. I think the Altima's a bit more slab-sided than the Intrepid as well, so even though it's not quite as wide inside with respect to shoulder room, the windows and roof pillars also don't curve in quite as far, so that contributes to a more spacious feeling.
I think the Altima makes a good case for the argument that interior materials aren't everything. Yeah, it's a bit sub-par here and there, and you can see some cost cutting, but they still managed to put enough other features in the car, like the great powertrain, roomy interior, nice styling (okay, that's subjective but I like it alot), good handling, etc, and ended up with a package that sells well without a lot of begging.
Altima
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Funny thing is that my wife is 4'10". When she drives, I climb into the back and stretch out.
What in the heck are all the controls for? I mean, beyond a simple switch for the window and the door lock, what else would you have on the door?
Instead I see what looks like a little paddle switch in front of the door pull, a long flat switch of some description (with a red button and a blue button), another button on the piece of wood trim (or is that a little slider that goes up/down?), a door 'lock/unlock' button in front of the handle, and THEN the actual door lock button above the chrome handle? (BTW - why have a seperate 'lock/unlock' button?).
Not to mention the fact that EACH SWITCH looks to be a different type. What a mishmash.
And where's the bottle holder in the lower portion of the door panel? Is there a speaker behind the cloth portion of the lower panel - or is the ONLY speaker in that little triangular enclosure at the top? Usually, there is a larger midrange down low with just a small tweeter up high; surely that speaker at the top isn't the ONLY speaker in that door?
Well, let's see: all the controls logically arranged in a single plane. No extraneous controls. So far so good.
Map pocket looks small with no cup holder. Nice large speaker enclosure (but doesn't look as though there is a seperate tweeter).
Hmmm, no wood on the door. I don't suppose you took a picture of the uplevel GM car and a low level Camry (purposely avoiding the XLE with the wood trim)?
Flat switch is the passenger temperature control (red, warmer; blue, cooler).
Seat heater switch
Door lock/unlock
There's a large speaker behind the carpet at the bottom. I believe that would be an 8 speaker system.
Are the plastics "soft" or "hard"?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I hope GM finds its away and finds SOON! Though I hate the Blazer that I got rid of, I don't want GM to go out of business. I want a lean and competitive GM - competition is good for consumers like me.
In fact, the various GM brands don't offer distinctive styling and products (they could if they had separate market research and product development organizations). Currently, all vehicles are developed by one team and then some kind of bizzare rationing and brand engineering takes place, e.g. Chevy will get Equinox but not the Honda V6 in Saturn Vue, Pontiac will get a version of Equinox but will not get a version of HHR, etc. This leaves the consumer confused.
Toyota, Honda also build multiple vehicles from the same platform - but the products are most of the time distinctive and the nameplates are very stable (unlike Grand Am becoming G6 or Century becoming LaCrosse). Styling isn't just about the shape or interior materials - styling is also about being distinctive and standing out.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't like it. The door panel has the dreaded soap-bar-carving look, the dark insert clashes with the rest of the color scheme, the pull handle area looks haphazard, that weird lump inboard of the mirror looks like an afterthought, and the mouse fur at the bottom of the door is going to collect all kinds of dirt from people kicking it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So, scattering HVAC controls all over the cabin is GOOD? Does this mean that the driver's door has the driver's side temp control?
"Seat heater switch"
Again, interesting placement. I take it that with the GM car the seat heater is either "on" or "off". Most vehicles these days have a 3-position switch to allow at LEAST a "low" and "high" setting.
"Door lock/unlock"
Still trying to figure out why there's a SEPERATE button for this rather than just the button (with the red part showing for "unlock") above the door handle.
OK, good to know there's a larger speaker down low; so why is the upper tweeter enclosure so big?
BTW - nice going showing the CURRENT GM door panel (Lucerne?) but an OLD model Camry(?) door panel (probably from a CE or LE model).
I realize that you are attempting to make a point regarding the quality of "foreign" (Toyota/Honda?) door panels vs. GM panels; BUT....
...it might be helpful if you included the YEAR MODEL of the door panel in the photo and whether we are looking at a base/stripper model or a higher trim.
I guess no cupholder in the lower part of the door could be considered a minus, but I always thought that was an awkward spot to put a cup, anyway. As long as the center console has a decent-sized cupholder, I'm satisfied.
Now here's a proper door panel
This is OK too
And of course it's hard to beat this
However, I do like this door panel. What is it, an Altima? The only thing I really don't like is those power window switches, the kind where you have to hook your finger under them and lift them to put the windows up. I know it's a safety feature, because it means you have to put a bit more willpower into it if you want to decapitate yourself, but i just find 'em more awkward than the type that you just push forward/back, or the rocker switch type.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,