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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    link a little less, and make a little more commentary please!

    Why ? I try to add as much news to the forums to give posters something to talk about. What's wrong with adding a link that has something that relates to the topic ? I always appreciate the commentary, but getting news from sources like the detnews has always been one way to start commentary.

    Neways, hopefully GM, makes some good profits in China, for their bottom line and reinvest those profits in fixing up the North American market.

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I dunno about the Tundra, but I saw a new Silverado the other day and it is SHARP!!! I usually don't get this excited over a truck, but I've got to hand it to Chevy!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I dunno about the Tundra, but I saw a new Silverado the other day and it is SHARP!!! I usually don't get this excited over a truck, but I've got to hand it to Chevy!

    And with gas at a 10 month low of $2.20 national average a whole bunch of new Chevy work trucks could be sold. IF we can get out of this dumper and homes start selling again.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yeah they look sharp. I of course prefer the GMC, over the Chevy. I still plan on taking a Sierra Denali for a few test laps when I get the chance. ;)

    Rocky
  • kybriggs82kybriggs82 Member Posts: 1
    I am purchasing a GM SUV product within the next 2 months. Is there going to be incentives for purchasing 2007 Cadillac Escalades or Chevorlet Suburbans?? If so, when are they coming or should I just purchase the beast??
    Thanks
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,421
    I rode in a rental Rendezvous today, 1500 miles on it. As a rental car, it was not a highline model...but still. It was assembled good enough and was free of rattles, but the plastics were atrocious, especially on the dash, which reminded me of wet paint. The engine noise was also very low rent. Visibility didn't seem great, and it didn't seem extraordinarily roomy. GM should be happy this thing is on its way out.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I 100% agree with you Fintail ;)

    Rocky
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    GM targets 2009 Launch of New Hummer

    DETROIT, Nov 8, 2006; Reuters reported that General Motors Corp. will likely launch a new Hummer truck in 2009, the head of the niche brand told Reuters on Wednesday.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/11/08/028105.html
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    Cadillac To Premiere All-New 2008 CTS In January

    DETROIT, Mich. - It is the subject of online discussions, rumors and spy photographers. It is the successor to an award-winning and popular luxury car. And it's coming in January. Cadillac confirms that the all-new 2008 CTS will make its world premiere in January at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/11/08/028108.html
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    No problem Rock. I read today that the judge extended the talks AGAIN!!

    Sheesh! This thing is getting ridiculous. I say get 'ol Judge Wopner from People's Court to come back, or even Judge Mathis. They'd have this squashed in a half-hour with commercials.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Thanks for the link. I posted a edmunds like one in the Cadillac forum however I like different opinions. The more the merrier. ;)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >Because we have 14 staffers who regularly drive all of our test cars we had 14 people voting. Since I'm only one man, I had only one vote. Further, of those 14 voters, four have been hired in the past year, and three more in the past two years. DeLorenzo's comments suggest there is a longstanding tradition of Edmunds being anti-Detroit, but half of the voters for 2007 have been here less than 24 months, so they haven't been a part of this so-called "tradition" for very long.

    The fact that some people have been employed relatively recently doesn't mean they have random viewpoints. In fact, they probably have similar viewpoints to those who employed them... Lotsa talk, little logic.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >GM models dropped from “Recommended” list
    · Rendezvous (performance test scores lapsed)
    · STS (reliability dropped to below average)
    · Monte Carlo (insufficient reliability survey responses)
    · Avalanche, Suburban, and Yukon XL have been replaced by new models with no reliability data


    I wonder if they dropped the Civic from the list because a new model replaced the old one and isn't old enough to have reliability data? grin.

    I wonder if they dropped the Camry -- same reason. Allegedly the new one is completely different therefore no data?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    jae,

    I think you are right. The UAW, gave Delphi, free of benefits employees to hire. My step-dad and aunt are 2 of em'. What more do they want ? illegal aliens I suppose. :mad:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    With its flaws now fixed, the Chevrolet Silverado is back on top

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=117482?tid=edmun- ds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    DETROIT — General Motors has raised prices on about one-third of its models due to rising raw materials costs. The sticker increases cover more than 200 models, including a $115 increase on the Chevrolet Impala. The Impala is the company's best-selling U.S. car.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117499

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I wonder if they dropped the Civic from the list because a new model replaced the old one and isn't old enough to have reliability data? grin.

    I wonder if they dropped the Camry -- same reason. Allegedly the new one is completely different therefore no data?

    In the past if a replaced model had very high reliability CR would give the new model a recommended buy for one year and then after enough data comes in make a 2nd decision. CR uses quite a bit of leeway in making the recommended buy decision (at least they did 3 years ago) but that may have changed since there has been a lot of controversery with other forms of data being available.

    For GM the replaced SUV trucks did not have great reliability so they could not give a recommended buy to the XL's w/o new data. HOWEVER, since the XL versions of the SUVS are exactly the same as the regular version except for extra length and a backseat I would have thought they could have given the XL's the same rating.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    This is such a minimal price increase. Hardly worth mentioning.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Perhaps with the new people in Washington some changes may be made to level the playing field. i.e. some kind of health care help to lower GM's cost of all the retirees that the imports do not have, anywhere, even at home. This would certainly help GM.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/POLITICS01/611090376/- 1148/AUTO01
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Looks like GM will make a huge profit this last quarter. Of course this will be a one time revenue. Wonder how the future profits will be with only half of GMAC's income going to GM's bottom line?

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/UPDATE/611090464/1148- /AUTO01
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Little more data. Boy MB is really in the crapper for quality. Not one recommended buy.

    Lexus has 6 out of nine models as Rec.Buy. Even the holy has issues?

    GM needs to ditch the minivans asap(Montana already gone, Buicks/saturn gone soon). I bet there is some a** whipping going on at the Cadillac plant. STS should be as good as the CTS.

    http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/AUTO01/611090364&SearchID- =73262525442565
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Probably. I mean with Delphi obviously wanting to just go the cost-cutting, slash & burn, get-the-cheapest-workers-we-can-get route I wouldn't be surprised. Really makes being a GM owner kind of hard cause if a major system breaks down, more than likely it's going to be a Delphi-sourced part... :surprise:

    In any event, I feel for those (workers, not the suits) in this situation because no one is going to win this fight.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    62,

    What I find strange is the Solstice tops the least reliable Sports / Sporty Car list. They have that much data to support this :confuse: , the vehicle hasn't been out that long.

    Other interesting GM things:

    Wagons/minivans: Most Reliable, Pontiac Vibe. Has this been included because the Matrix made it? I've spent some time in Vibes, much to be desired - definitely a vehicle I wouldn't keep for the long-haul. This goes against the rest of the list because GMs fared badly.

    Wagons/minivans: Least Reliable: Terraza, Uplander, Relay

    Midsized SUVs, least reliable: H3 - does this make the Colorado/Canyon twins least reliable too?

    Small Cars, least reliable: Cobalt topping the list.

    Yikes. It seems the domestics flooded the least reliable portions of each category, with only the GM SUVs / wagon cracking the most reliable sections. :sick:
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Most Reliable, Pontiac Vibe. Has this been included because the Matrix made it? I've spent some time in Vibes, much to be desired - definitely a vehicle I wouldn't keep for the long-haul.

    Vibe and Matrix are very similar and CR puts them together because they could not figure out why the Vibe scored so poorly vs. the Matrix one year. There was a big hubbaloo 2 years ago on that one. Besides the list you are looking at is the reliability list, nothing to do with what you think about it, just how it stays together.

    Midsized SUVs, least reliable: H3 - does this make the Colorado/Canyon twins least reliable too?

    Should be completely separate. They only share the under carriage and powertrain. There is so much more to go wrong that are completely different. Looks like the Canyon scored average.

    Yikes. It seems the domestics flooded the least reliable portions of each category, with only the GM SUVs / wagon cracking the most reliable sections.

    If I look at the list given I see 12 GM vehicles out of a possible 53 GM vehicles in the least reliable and 3 of them are the dieing minivans. Whoops, you said domestic. Counter that with Mercedes that had 7 vehicles out of 11 in the least reliable list. Jag had 2/4 in the least reliable group. The noticable thing is that Toyota and Honda did so well and everyone else was a mixed bag including Nissan and the Europeans.

    I think the good news here is that GM has 41 vehicles above the least reliable category which is really against what many think about GM. And that many of the poor reliability cars are going away. Minivans, Aveo, Escalade EXT.

    If you also look at the rec. buy lists you can see many of the missing GM vehicles are being replaced or going away. Buick has 2 out of 6 recommended buy vehicles-the LaCrosse and Lucerne. Very soon Buick will drop those 4 other vehicles and replace them with the Enclave, which better have good quality. My real disapointment, and I hope some buts are getting kicked, is how poorly the Solstice/Vette/Cobalt/STS did.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Unfortunately that appears to be true. Delphi, was suppose to pull out of bankruptcy this past September. My gut feeling tells me they won't pull out until next March, when the next contract is up to make sure the new hires get hosed. :mad:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    62,

    I agree but it was news. A few hundred bucks shouldn't be significant enough to make or break a deal. After all GM, did drop its sticker prices last year when they were running the GM "total value" campaign. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=117454?tid=edmun- ds.il.home.photopanel..3.*

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,421
    Are all these little statistical varations in reliability (NOT QUALITY) really of merit anymore? I don't see lots of broken down MB, Cobalts, prehistoric GM minivans, Jags, etc either on the roads or on dealer back lots. What does it all really mean? Of course, CR sees itself to be in a position to not explain data...but still.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    Top 6 out of 10 are GM vehicles :P

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2615
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    DETROIT — General Motors is expected to unveil an electric car prototype early next year that would use an onboard internal-combustion engine as a generator. The electricity produced would be used to extend the range of the vehicle's rechargeable batteries, according to widespread media reports

    The new car, if it ever makes it to production, would be recharged daily by owners and could handle a daily commute of about 20 to 30 miles before depleting the battery charge and switching to electricity generated onboard.

    It could be plugged into a home-charging unit or a public recharger, which was available in California when the EV1 was on the road in the late 1990s.

    Rick Wagoner, GM's chairman and chief executive, is set to discuss the company's environmental vehicle programs in a November 29 speech at the Los Angeles auto show.

    A recent documentary called Who Killed the Electric Car? took GM to task for abandoning the EV1.

    What this means to you: GM returns to the electric car as it scrambles to keep up in the race for the perfect green vehicle.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117521

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Sounds good so far. The correct way to make a hybrid is to build an electric car with batteries to provide peak power for acceleration (100, 200, or however many horses you like), and an onboard generator to provide power for steady cruising (50hp or so would be plenty for the average midsize car).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    You also need to generate stored power by taking advantage of all the energy lost due to driving conditions. i.e. braking regeneration.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Funny list. Anyone can say anything. The one that strikes me is the Saab SUV. Sure it is a clone but it is not one of the worst 10 vehicles out there. It just is a copy of a decent SUV. Some people hate that GM would make a Saab SUV but no reason to call it one of the worst 10.
  • ron_mron_m Member Posts: 186
    Little more data. Boy MB is really in the crapper for quality. Not one recommended buy.

    There's simply no way that I would purchase anything that MB makes these days. I'll admit that they make certain vehicles that look really nice and are very "well appointed". However, with the quality and reliability ratings that they have received over the course of the past 3-5 years alone I would avoid MB's products like the plague. There are too many other useful things that I can think of to spend my money on. I can remember back when MB was considered the ultimate in automobile quality. Most of the car enthusiasts that I know just frown when they hear the words "new Mercedes" these days. Considering the price of an average Benz, I personally view the purchase of one of their vehicles as a tremendous waste of money; unless image and/or bling is paramount to someone.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    unless image and/or bling is paramount to someone.

    Why else would someone spend that kind of money on one?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,421
    It's certainly the most shameful piece of badge engineering in the NA market, a real embarrassment. Maybe not horrible from a reliability standpoint (I wouldn't go so far when it comes to quality, which is a different subject), but from it being really a fake Saab, yeah, it's shameful.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,421
    Same can be said about any highline car, no? Especially with how they depreciate in raw dollars.

    Of course, who wants a world full of Cobalts and Corollas...
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Of course, who wants a world full of Cobalts and Corollas

    Very true but there are a lot of choices out there for very good cars with all the comforts and features for a lot less money than MB.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,421
    But luckily for MB, most brands can't approach the cachet/mystique/etc (and the fact that they do drive quite nicely, along with usually solid styling). The higher the price, the less logic used - reliability takes a backseat in most highline cars. And in the really reliable ones - there's no soul. Plenty of people are willing to spend 25K++++ more for an S class vs a LS, that doesn't seem to be changing.

    I'm a huge MB fan, but unless I was seriously rich, I wouldn't buy a brand new one either. However, I can say that about most cars.
  • ron_mron_m Member Posts: 186
    Why else would someone spend that kind of money on one?

    Exactly my point. Sounds like we're on the same page with this one.

    Ron M.
  • aldwaldw Member Posts: 82
    Mystique doesn't come out of nothing, MB gained its cachet by its quality and refinement, if it loses that, the mystique will go bye-bye as well.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Issue is just how bad the reliability is. Today's cars on the most part are all pretty equal in reliability. Even if MB is below average in reliability that may only mean it has 4 problems instead of the average 3. Not a big difference and one most would live with.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,421
    Exactly. Cars are pretty much so good today, that these differences are marginal. I don't think there's any real crap on the market anymore. Some makes have more bad apples than others, but nothing is really junk.

    Many people will deal with that extra shop visit so they can have something with handling, styling, status, etc that they seem superior. It's not a huge price to pay.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Go to the "The Big 3 and the domestic issues that will affect them" forum.

    I posted a article from the detnews and would like to hear your reaction. ;)

    Post # 916

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    from 11-10-06

    Automaker expects future success with technology of hybrids, batteries and hydrogen fuel cells.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061110/AUTO01/611100327/- 1148/AUTO01

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    From 11-10-06

    Auto parts maker will also downsize 3 others, redo contracts, eliminate retiree health benefits. :sick:

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061110/AUTO01/611100311/- 1148/AUTO01

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    From 11-10-06

    2008 crossover boasts soundproofing features in a bid to compete with Lexus, Mercedes-Benz.

    MILFORD --General Motors Corp. will employ an arsenal of soundproofing technology in hopes of making its upcoming Buick Enclave crossover one of the quietest rides on the road.

    Buick officials said Thursday that the brand will face off with the likes of Lexus and Mercedes-Benz when the five-door luxury crossover debuts next year as a 2008 model. The Enclave will be built at GM's new $1 billion plant in Delta Township near Lansing.

    GM hopes a sleek exterior, laminated steel and perforated leather seats that absorb sound will quiet critics and sell the Enclave to a younger, more affluent crowd. The features are the latest incarnation of Buick's QuietTuning technology, used in such models as the Lucerne and LaCrosse sedans.

    "This technology is very powerful and very simple," Buick general manager Steve Shannon said Thursday at the GM Proving Grounds, where the Enclave underwent sound testing in high-tech wind tunnels and on low-tech bumpy roads. "This is basically a luxury car that just happens to seat seven or eight people."

    A quiet ride is not a perk, but an expectation in the luxury market, and it's an area where Buick has fallen short in the past, said Brian Moody, road test editor for Edmunds.com. "People who are purchasing luxury vehicles expect a certain serenity or quietness with a vehicle," Moody said. "If they don't get that, it seems cheap."

    GM has been on a mission to reincarnate Buick as an American version of Lexus, Toyota Motor Co.'s popular luxury line.

    Buick, while still profitable, has continued to lose longtime customers. U.S. sales dropped 15 percent in the first 10 months of 2006 from the same period last year.

    Among the Enclave's soundproofing features:

    Acoustically laminated windshield glass that sandwiches a sound-absorbing glass panel between inner and outer panels.

    Soundproofing foam in 28 places that expands to seal openings that could let noise in.

    Tires with specially designed tread to avoid the noise associated with larger tires.

    A team of engineers worked to ensure the Enclave absorbs sounds, reduces noise made by the vehicle and drowns out noise from the outside. One person's full-time job, for example, was to create the most pleasing sounds for functions such as shutting a door or rolling down a window, said Roger Barlow, a noise vibration team leader at Buick. "We're talking about excruciating detail," he said.

    Edmund's Moody said the QuietTuning technology should help the Enclave compete when it goes on sale next summer, But it won't be enough to sell the vehicle in the crowded luxury market.

    "There's more to a car," he said, "than making it sound quiet"

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061110/AUTO01/611100321/- 1148/AUTO01

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Detroit Free Press take on it can also be found in the "The Big 3 and the domestic issues that will affect them" forum ;)

    A different spin from a quite different paper.

    It is a important meeting for not only GM, but Ford, and Chrysler, as well. ;)

    Rocky
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Edmund's Moody said the QuietTuning technology should help the Enclave compete when it goes on sale next summer, But it won't be enough to sell the vehicle in the crowded luxury market.

    "There's more to a car," he said, "than making it sound quiet"

    I feel the same as Moody, Rock. While I'm glad that GM is going to make the vehicle "whisper quiet" I really don't think that's enough. It's a start, but what else do they have in terms of hardware, service, and more importantly "first / best in class...?
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    15% Global Marketshare

    Kind of ties in to GM in terms of marketshare on a global basis.
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