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So what should GM do to sway the opinion that it is better to be seen in a foreign car than a Domestic?
Rocky
GM's retail sales rose 11 percent in November, while fleet sales fell 7 percent, Ballew said. He attributed the 7.9 percent drop in GM car sales to a decline in sales to car rental companies.
"We've seen pricing and mix improve," he added. GM's average transaction price -- an important gauge of profitability -- had risen 6 percent from year-earlier levels, Ballew said. "We have stabilized our market share. We're getting some lift from our new products. It was a solid month for us."
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061202/AUTO01/612020383/1148-
This curent forum seems to just rehash the news out there with hardly any debate on whether GM is really going to make it. Where is everyone?
"
well, it is sad to know that 25% of G6 sales have been going to fleet. And I thought G6 was a good seller.
What really surprizes me is that GM still has 25% of the US market even with the drop in rental fleet. Means their products are selling to the public. Must be doing something right since ATP is also up.
Yes it is sad for a NEW car like G6 to go to fleets. Malibus, Impalas, Cobalts, Grand Prix, even 25% GM as a whole is understandable and well known, but not new products. By your explanation, I should expect to see fleet Auras some day to keep those plants humming. And that's sad because I have been happily following your posts on how GM is backing up from fleet sales. And I thought they have been doing that even before the G6 went into production.
But what is real important and the reason for dropping the rental fleet sales is the residual value. For 2007 the Cobalt has a residual range(depending on model)" of 44-47 while the Civic is 47-59. G6 is 48-51 and the Accord 52-58. Aura is 47-49 and Camry 51-54. These are 3 year numbers. While GM still pretty much lags there has been tremendous improvement since 2 years ago. The 2005 G6 was 36!!! Heck even the Lexus ES350 has a residual of 49 and the GS350 is even lower.
http://www.midealerfinance.com/docs/Sept_Oct%20Residual%20Guide.pdf
The below is an older article with data for 2006 MY. 2007 GM residuals are now higher.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006608060659
I still am amused by those who have picked up the anti-GM mantra of "ooooh, rental fleets" while in reality rentals expose people to the cars. A problem has been rentals getting lowest line models in the past which don't represent the better equipped cars. So the rental animals need to be ones to make a good impression.
Lowering the percent of production allowed into rentals is great move.
I'll have to cruise the main lots for the rental companies at the airport seven miles away again and see what's sitting.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Of course, 9 out of 10 G6 and Lucernes I see are rentals too.
Exposing people to cars is a great idea, but at least expose them to a nice model. That Rendezvous rental I rode in a few weeks ago was pretty atrocious.
It's more than that. As of the first half of the model year, 42% of G6 sales went to fleets. It has effectively replaced the Grand Am as one of GM's fleet specials.
Until you see hard numbers out of the General, rather than carefully crafted percentages created by the PR department, don't believe the hype -- the goal here is to convince Wall Street that its concerns for fleet sales are being addressed, when that is barely the case. Look at the figures in post #165, and you'll see that fleet sales barely nudged downward between October and April, and I would doubt that much has changed since.
Also bear in mind that most rental car sales are made in January and July, so of course fleet sales in a month such as October are going to necessarily be low. And since the fleet sales during those months are relatively low to begin with, you can reduce them by just a little bit but have that reported as a large percentage. Until you get the actual sales numbers in units, I wouldn't be ready to believe it.
Fleet Central
I don't. It's pretty, but doesn't drive anything like either a Camry or Accord. It's noisy, engine is rough, steers hard, but isn't really sporty...
Dec. 4, 2006
General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner is a survivor. Wagoner hung on to his job after GM lost $10.6 billion last year. He has battled and beaten back one of the most powerful - some would say ruthless - investors, Kirk Kerkorian.
This year, with his job in the balance, Wagoner was able to secure a vote of confidence from GM's board. He was threatened again in midyear as Kerkorian pushed for an alliance with Renault-Nissan. Had that deal come to fruition, many speculated it would have left Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn in command at GM.
While GM's turnaround is still far from complete and GM's earnings results have been mixed, the automaker is a far cry from where it was at this time last year. Wagoner discussed GM's future with Automotive News Editorial Director Peter Brown, Staff Reporter Jamie LaReau and News Editor Dave Guilford.
Q: You brought the GMT900 full-sized-SUV program forward to generate revenue. It has been quite successful. Would you envision in the future that those large high-consumption trucks will be substantially less important in your revenue picture and that smaller, or higher-technology, vehicles will be more?
A: They're very high-tech vehicles now. And when we put in the two-mode hybrid, you could argue that our full-sized utilities might be the highest-tech vehicles on the road. I don't expect the full-sized-utilities segment to grow. The full-sized-(pickup) truck segment has hung on better.
Q: Is it going to grow like it has?
A: It's fair to assume it will be a slower growth, perhaps even level off. I do think a lot of the growth is going to be in the so-called crossover category. Those can meet a lot of the needs of people who are motivated by higher fuel prices or concerns over the environment.
Q: When gasoline went to $3 per gallon, it appeared there was a segment shift. But now it's back to $2.25, and it looks like buyers are going back to where they were. How do you plan on that going forward? Do you have to hedge your bets?
A: That's a great point. That's one of the dilemmas that we have in the industry. It's my sense that, having gone through that spike, more people are thinking twice about buying large utilities. That's why we've really driven hard to say, "What are the solutions?" These technologies, which don't cost a lot but can provide better fuel economy or options for less imported oil, are pretty important for us. Flex fuel is very interesting in that sense because for not a huge amount of money, you can put vehicles on the road that can use either gas or mostly ethanol.
Q: Are you encouraged by the potential future supply of ethanol?
A: Yes. I guess the question is, is it going to happen? Yes, it's happening. How much, how big is it going to be, what are the economics of it? That's going to depend a little bit on do we get the breakthroughs on cellulosic (ethanol made from plant debris). I suspect it's going to continue to grow, but we're not going be a Brazil. We're not going to be 100 percent. And the issue of the economics is tough.
Some people say there is a big subsidy to it. Sure, there is, and guess what? There's going to need to be a subsidy for a long time for it to be able to get to scale, for it to be competitive with gas if gas is at $2.50 a gallon. But what if gas is at $4 a gallon? I think if we're going to develop alternatives to oil, there are going to be costs incurred that someone's going to have to pay.
Q: What about electric vehicles? Bob Lutz has been talking about a series hybrid electric vehicle. Do you see that as a real production vehicle?
A: The feasibility is going to be driven by battery technology. It sort of depends on what standards you want to put around it. But if you're not requiring a very long range of battery-only operation, then it could work. But if you really want to get a battery-powered vehicle, you're going to have to have significant progress in lithium ion batteries.
Q: In Jerry York's board resignation letter, he criticized two things: cash burn and market share. How do you respond?
A: We burned a lot of cash in the third quarter, so it's pretty clear we need to get the business profitable and generating cash. It's something we continue to work on.
Cash burn this year is significantly less than last year. But, hey, if it's flowing out the door net, rather than in, you eventually have to fix that.
We've laid out our market strategy pretty clearly - that we're going to focus on retail share and be responsible on fleet share. The retail business has stabilized pretty well over the last three or four months.
Q: When would you realistically like to see North America return to profitability?
A: As soon as possible.
Q: Do you have any kind of target that you'd like to share?
A: Not that I'd like to share.
Q: On that note, do you intend to resume financial forecasts?
A: We haven't decided what we're going to do yet. We had a couple of big things that are clearly overhanging the company and the stock price: GMAC and Delphi. Let's get those done, and we'll step back and take a look.
Getting out in the quarter-to-quarter forecast game doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me. It defocuses us from doing what's right for the business.
Q: What's the best outcome on Delphi for you? What's your end game in the various negotiations?
A: It's very important that the Delphi that comes out is a competitive one, that it can be a profitable supplier and supply us at world-class prices. That's the most important outcome. The second thing is that it has got to be something that everybody agrees with coming out of it. The third thing, we'd obviously like to do it as fast as possible. And the fourth thing, we'd like to do it at minimum cost to everyone, including us.
Q: How close are you on the Delphi personnel liability issues?
A: Final things have not been negotiated. It's been narrowed down to a range. It's a lot less than it was. It leads me to believe that this thing could move to a conclusion reasonably rapidly. Does that mean two weeks? No. But it means hopefully we're not sitting here next year in this conversation.
Q: It appears the UAW has really played ball so far this year and the last couple of years. Do you agree with that? What would you expect to happen in the contract year coming up?
A: Talking about it broadly - not just Delphi, but broadly - I agree. The UAW has been very constructive and willing to sit down and work on important issues with us. And I think in the sense of responding to a difficult time, we very much appreciate that.
The industry still has tough issues to face. We know the competitive situation, and we're in this boat together. And so we need to be very thoughtful and creative as we go into 2007.
Q: Bob Lutz talked about the Opel Corsa - said you tried to bring it over, but it hadn
Ack. Right when it got to the good part. :mad:
Bob Lutz talked about the Opel Corsa - said you tried to bring it over, but it hadn't been federalized for the United States, and the next generation would be. It seems like having the small cars or different types of vehicles that could be moved rapidly would have really helped you.
Sure.
Will that be a policy in the future, that those kinds of vehicles will be globally acceptable?
There are going to be exceptions, but we want to try to develop cars and trucks that we can sell around the world.
Apart from the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel, do you need to reduce dealership count?
Yes. Not all - one size doesn't fit all. We need to grow in some markets. We need to shrink in a lot of markets. But generally, if you ask where we are over-dealered, most probably the Northeast, then probably certain places in the Midwest.
Would you put any money into deals to consolidate points?
We cannot be the underwriter of most of this. Can we consider participating from time to time? Yes. But we just don't have the money to go do this all ourselves. And, frankly, the feedback we got from our dealers is that these are generally individual dealers that need to make their own call.
Hybrids need our tax dollars to sell.
WASHINGTON -- U.S. sales of the popular Prius and other hybrids made by Toyota Motor Corp. slipped this fall when buyers of those vehicles no longer qualified for a full federal tax break, Toyota officials said.
"Until recently, there was a two-month wait to get one," Toyota Motor North America President Jim Press said of Prius availability on Wednesday, Nov. 29, at an auto technology conference.
Sales and marketing officials said lower gasoline prices and production changes at the Japanese automaker were other factors that cut into its industry leading gas/electric hybrid sales in October. The October figure of 14,598 was the lowest since March.
Press said that for the first time since rolling out the Prius in 2003, Toyota is able to fulfill consumer demand for the car.
He also called on Congress to extend the hybrid tax incentive for 2007 purchases. The Bush administration supports the extension, but it is unclear if lawmakers will act in the waning days of the current session next month.
Energy legislation in 2005 allowed consumers to claim up to $3,600 in tax credits for hybrid purchases. The full credit was capped at 60,000 vehicles per manufacturer, a ceiling Toyota hit last summer.
BMW 3-series
Chevrolet Corvette
Chrysler 300
Honda Accord
Mazda MX-5
Porsche Boxster and Cayman
New entries:
Honda Fit
Infiniti G35 sedan
Mazdaspeed 3
Volkswagen GTI
In comparison, the much lighter and more aerodynamic Saturn Aura has less powerful engine (252hp), one extra gear (6-speed), yet manages to squeeze only 1 mpg for highway driving. (20/28 mpg). GM is improving but still playing catchup in the powertrain department.
And just around the same time GM drops the minivan and comes our with a class leading minivan buster that gets 18/26 with 270 hp. It holds 8 in comfort. It leads both the minivan and crossover class in appearance. Minivans are now a thing from the past. I guess it all goes to look how you look at things.
That's a lot of pressure to put on those upcoming crossovers. Because they also replace the Trailblazer family eventually. Those outgoing vehicles, combined with the minivans generated around 40,000-45,000 a month some time ago. How many will the new triplet sell? 20,000? more? Either way, that's a lot of pressure on them to retain market share. For the Japanese automakers, nothing could be easier. Because they have BOTH minivans and crossovers.
What's more, the GM triplets are arriving at a time when GM won't be left to breathe comfortably. Because a whole bench of 8-seat crossovers are arriving the same year.
Honda Pilot
Toyota Highlander
Mazda CX-9
Hyundai Veracruz
Ford Freestle (improved next year with a 3.5L engine)
Chrysler Pacifica (already on sale with a big 4.0 engine)
And as u know, many of those have been in the market for years (Chrysler Pacifica). So besides arriving 5 years late, what do the GM crossovers add to the party?
This is not meant to bash GM. Just a discussion.
I have owned SAABs, a Honda, a Volkswagen, a Dodge, a Subaru, Mazdas . . . quite a few makes. I now own a Suzuki. Gotta say the SX4 can compete. At the very least, it will be interesting to see where Suzuki is the a couple of years.
GM sold 190k minivans/Rendezvous's in '05 and will sell about 140k in '06. A big part of that drop is the killing of the Pontiac version but they all lost volume this year.
I think the most telling is that GM has only one plant to build the Lambdas and at 2 shifts could build about 250K. So if they can keep their volume of the '06 minivan/Rende 140K + the 100K XL SUV they will keep the plant busy. I think the Lamdas will keep the plant in OT and maybe even add a 3rd shift. However dropping the mid SUV's will mean trying to make up another 270K and that could not be done with a 3rd shift. So if they drop the Mid SUV's they would need to add a 2nd Lamda plant.
I think GM is going to wait a year and see where this whole thing shakes out. The Lamda reviews will hit next week and if the press call it a winner and volume takes off they may just think about adding the 2nd plant and kill the Trailblazer in two years. If the current Trailblazer keeps close to one plant running they would probably do a refresh with new body and interior and not add the 2nd Lamda plant. Hey the best thing is if the Lamda does take off and they need to add a plant AND the Trailblazer keeps selling.
But things change. For many years driving a 4 door was for old folks only and 4 doors were designed after the 2 door was designed. At one time large sedans were the only way to really drive (50 chevies) and the only real choice.
In 10-15 years, crossovers will likely have the minivan stigma. You can only disguise something for so long.
How long til it goes back to cars? If waistlines shrink, I bet vehicles will too.
I live in an area with a lot of married families with kids. The line up at school is large, new SUV's and minivans. The only sedans are driven by grandparents doing the parents a favor.
We will see but from what I have read the mix between sedans vs. people carriers (minivans, SUV's, Crossovers) has not changed much.
If something comes along that is different and fills the need then things may change.
Waistlines change? Only getting larger.
The "need" for many big SUVs can be debated. I see an awful lot of them as single vehicle commuters from suburban neighborhoods to outskirt business campuses. I also live in an area with lots of kids and families, and I do see a lot of Camcords and pretend SUVs, moreso than the real bloatmobiles.
I think the mix might be hard to define, as some might define vehicles differently...such as counting a Lexus RX as an SUV. And waistlines will only grow to a certain point...health costs will cause the pendulum to swing.
Just playing a light devils advocate to the cheerleeading.
yea, I remember the 60's. I used to lay on the rear window shelf while my 3 brothers sat on the rear seat. It was nice and toasty up there. In the late 60's we had a 66 catalina station wagon and then in the early 70's went to full size Beauville vans.
LaNeve is optimistic, especially for crossover vehicles, but says success will be incremental.
General Motors Corp. is counting on new sport utility vehicles and redesigned cars to stop a slide in U.S. market share, GM's top marketing executive said.
GM's sales decline has "bottomed out," and the world's largest automaker hopes to regain some lost share, North American marketing chief Mark LaNeve said Wednesday in an interview in New York.
That would mean selling about 170,000 more vehicles annually.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061207/AUTO01/612070398/1148
Production will slow at factories in Mexico, Texas and Wisconsin due to falling demand.
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. will cut production in January at three plants that build large sport utility vehicles because demand has slowed, the automaker said Wednesday.
The factories in Mexico, Texas and Wisconsin make models including the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon, Tom Wickham, a GM spokesman said. The plants will close for the first two weeks of January, then reopen Jan. 15 at lower production, he said.
"The SUVs are still selling reasonably well but the inventories were getting high," said David Healy, a Burnham Securities Inc. analyst who doesn't rate GM and owns some of its shares. "They're taking a realistic look at the future outlook for this segment."
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061207/AUTO01/612070320/1148
Anybody know the schedule for the GM plant cut backs? GM does not have a big inventory problem yet but looking at Chrysler and Ford they could get there. Chrysler has a huge problem and is still running OT to try and make a profit this year (or not lose as much). Big Chrysler incentives will hurt GM sales.
I know they closed the trailblazer XL Oklahoma plnat last year.
The EIA projects only a small increase in the price of oil before 2010, with some decline in the years after that as new sources come on line.
General Motors will develop at least one car based on its new global vehicle platforms in the US for sale in China. According to its Vice Chairman, Bob Lutz, in a statement made during an interview in Paris, GM will build a new long-wheelbase luxury vehicle in China, which will likely be called the Buick Royaume. It’s still early days, which means nothing has been confirmed yet but it’s likely that GM’s Zeta rear-wheel drive architecture will be the choice of platform.
Zeta, which the upcoming Camaro is based, will spawn several other models including large sedans for the likes of Buick, Pontiac and Chevrolet brands. Further, the first Zeta product has already gone in sale in Australia in the form of the VE Commodore. Importantly, Zeta can be used in whole range of vehicles including coupes and large SUVs.
And from somewhere else:
Lutz also announced that the platform will be used to build a luxury car in China called the Buick Royaume. The Chinese market has been a bright spot for GM, where its Buick brand sees incredible popularity.
Our take? Anyone that follows GM has been aware of the trials and tribulations of the Zeta platform and its future in the North American market. The confirmation of future Zeta-based cars is good news and will allow GM to further differentiate its products from the competition and further leverage its performance pedigree. Combined with the increasing quality of GM's cars as of late, things seem to be looking up for the company.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061208/BIZ/612080433/1148/AU- TO01
The 2008 Saturn Astra, which will be nearly identical to the 2007 Opel Astra unveiled this week at an auto show in Italy, is part of GM's strategy to share engineering and design resources between the brands to develop vehicles that will appeal to buyers in Europe and North America.
"Since Saturn buyers are basically 'import intenders' who would have bought a foreign nameplate if not Saturn, we asked ourselves 'Why not let GM Europe design and engineer the Saturn line?'"
Lutz noted a few exceptions, though, such as the Sky and the Outlook crossover, which did not come out of Europe.
Pete Hastings, an auto industry corporate bonds analyst with Morgan Keegan & Co. Inc. in Memphis, Tenn., said building the Astra for sale globally will save GM valuable capital.
"The cars coming out of the GM Design Center, they've got their act together," he said.
"They've got the right idea in going forward with the global platform for the cost savings and taking the best from around the world and putting them into these offerings."
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061208/BUSINESS01/612080347/10- 14
Of all GM brands, the only ones to post sales increases during the first 11 months of the year were Saturn and Hummer. Saturn sold 205,689 cars and trucks from January through November, up 3.6% from 198,512 a year earlier. November sales were 14% higher than the same month last year.
Early in 2006, Saturn added the Sky roadster to its lineup and in September launched the Aura midsize sedan. Both models are selling briskly without the need for sales incentives. Other new entries are the Outlook crossover and the Vue Green Line hybrid.
The Saturn Astra will be sold in three-door and five-door versions and will be unveiled publicly at the Chicago Auto Show in February.
A hint of what Wagoner might say came Wednesday night in New York, when GM's global marketing chief, Mark LaNeve, said he believed that the company's U.S. retail share had just ...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAK7NoeffGiA&refer=us
The Saturn, among more than a dozen new vehicles GM showed to reporters and consultants yesterday, is part of Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner's plan to gain buyers with fresher designs and more reliable vehicles.
Outlook’s target is somewhat more affordable with the likes of Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander in its sights. If our experience with an option-laden top-level XR edition is any indication, Saturn has overshot its mark. At a price some 15 percent lower, it matched up well against an MDX also in our fleet recently. This is good because the Honda Pilot is due to be replaced soon, and for once GM is leading rather than trailing its moving target.
Like its stablemates, Outlook is bigger—longer, wider and heavier—than the Japanese-brand competition. Stretched across an expansive 118.9-inch wheelbase, it boasts a wide 67.28-inch track for an SUV-like stance. It’s 200.7 inches long, about a foot longer than a Pilot, and a little more than 78 inches wide. The dimensions are put to good use with seating throughout for full-size adults: It accommodates either seven or eight (depending on the buyer’s choice of a standard 60/40-split center bench or the $495 option of captain’s chairs).
Not only is it easy to get into, we’d gladly ride in that third row all day—if we wanted to watch a DVD on the optional entertainment system, the third row might be our first choice
Saturn expects its average transaction price to be $32,000 to $33,000 Hve to go back and see if I guessed right!
As long as their are Families with kids that own a boat and like to go on vacation their will be a need for large SUV's. You're seeing big SUV market share drop because with gas so high only people who need one are going to buy one but their are still a lot of people who still need them. If haul anything bigger then a small trailer and have to move people with gear its either a 4 door pickup or a large SUV not a crossover. I don't care what the tow ratings are on crossovers or vans that 22 foot boat is going to feel a whole lot bigger on the back end of that crossover compared to the Yukon. Now throw 2 screaming kids and the families gear for a weekend stay at the cabin 150 miles into the mix and you would want a large SUV for the trip.
Hall agreed it may be the best product execution GM has ever released in segments that sell over 100,000 a year.
Driving the Outlook was every bit as pleasurable as the best of the midsized SUVs—the Lincoln Aviator (unsung for its excellent suspension tuning), Nissan (NSANY) Murano, and Toyota Highlander. (To be fair, I haven't yet driven the new Mazda CX-9, which seats seven or eight as well.)
The question for GM with these vehicles is whether they will attract a chunk of minivan buyers who need seating for seven/eight, as well as buyers of midsized SUVs such as Chevy Trailblazer and GMC Envoy, which GM is abandoning soon. My guess is that except for those people who actually need the towing capacity of the Trailblazer, or who demand V8 power, GM will get its share.
Is the Outlook too good to be true? Not at all. But for people who are drifting around the minivan and full-size and midsized SUV categories looking for just the right package that suits their current lifestyle and kid-hauling needs, the Saturn Outlook is superior to its domestic and Asian competitors. And it's definitely the best thing that seats at least seven people that GM has ever made. Bring on Buick, GMC, and Chevy!
Sorry guys I haven't been on in a while. My mother came in to town from Michigan, and I haven't seen her in about a year in a half and have been spending some quality time with her since I most likely won't get to see her for at least another 6 months.
The Buick Royaum should be the next Lucerne. What makes it great is its big and RWD. I've yet to see interior photo's but the exterior is very conservative like Lexus, but it would make a great buick american design. It would be great to see such a car be built here. Since I'm not going to buy the Mustang, I'm suppose to get my wife's grandma's 2000' Buick Century today. My wife and I have a Jeep Cherokee Laredo as a rental since the Dodge Truck :mad: is still in the shop :sick: I'm never going to take my cars back to the local Dodge dealer again because I'm working on almost a month in the shop. They must of hired the reject mechanics that year. In the future I wouldn't trust these guys to change the oil, let alone fix a gas tank, radiator, AC-unit, like they are attempting. :surprise:
Back on Buick, they don't need multiple sedans that are along the same lines. I would make my Buick line-up look like this.
Luxury Sports Car-Buick Velite Twin-Turbo 400-450 hp.
Luxury Large Car-Buick Royaum/Lucerne w/350-400 hp.
Luxury CUV-Buick Enclave 275-300 hp.
Entry Luxury Mid-Size Sports Sedan-Buick Lacrosse with V8 power w/ 6-speed manual option w/ magneride
Rocky
http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/67393,8548,0,0/photo.aspx
Not exactly a world-beater, but it gets the job done in a pleasant manner.
Since I'm not going to buy the Mustang
The 7-up? Uh oh. :sick:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z8548/default.aspx