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Marketing Caddy as kind of a working man's attainable luxury vehicle is a good idea. You can even do a sideways american tie in to the ads.
Cadillacs are the vehicles for self made professionals and business people achieving the american dream of doing things your own way. The successful individual or couple who has worked hard for their money and hot had things handed to them.
Rocky
Yes, that describes my great uncle (who sadly has passed on) -- he worked his way up and eventually opened a successful small business. His first Caddy was a 2-year-old 1958 Fleetwood Sixty Special that he purchased from an estate sale.
I was a young lad at the time, and it was a real treat to ride in that car, with luxuries we take for granted today, like a/c and power windows and locks.
This was the first of several Caddies for him; the ones that followed were bought new.
Fade in to a slightly grainy shot, obvioulsy shot on old 8MM film, of late 40s early 50s man picking up his first New to him Caddy.
He drives up to his relative's house in the Caddy and gives his great nephew a ride in the car showing him all the cool features. He gives the boy a nice gold pocketwatch as they get out of the car
Pictures fades to black and now we see a crisp clear modern film.
You see another man younger then the great uncle. He is in his late 30's to early 40's. Remember we want to push Caddies down into the lower age groups. He pulls out a very faimilar gold pocket watch and checks the time. A porter pulls up in his brand new Caddy freshly washed and waxed. His salesman comes up to him shakes his hand then asks about the watch.
The man who we now know is the boy we saw earlier in the commercial just smiles and says it was a gift from his great uncle.
They both get in the car and the salesman starts going over the car as the commercial fades to black.
Insert sappy tagline here please.
If people here can come up with such brilliant idea it really makes you wonder how messed up are those GM marketing people... :sick:
Nah what import lovers like is reliability (or at least the reputation there of). In addition some people love gadgets (like you) and others don't care for them (like me).
Not all imports lovers buy cars for the same reason. German import lovers like the way the German imports drive. Hyundai buyers like the low price. Honda buyers like reliability with a dash of spottiness. Toyota buyers like reliability, and a dash of Buick. Niassan doesn’t have great realability, so don’t know what their draw is. Luxurty import buyers buy because the car is expensive and forgen(i.e. something not as many can afford like say cadalic). In short there are multiple reasons to go import.
I don't want a sun roof (not my thing), leather seats (too hot in the summer) or heated seats (Who want to have a hot backside and a cold front side?).
Heck I really don't car about power locks and mirors. It is hard to lure people with options they don't want\can't use. (I.e. Bluetooth, don't have a phone or other item that can use Bluetooth and don't want to bet that a future item is not only compatible with the car, but useful in it as well).
Frankly to be honest putting a million options in the car and hoping it will sell because of it seems so old school to me. All I can think about is how much that darned sun roof is going to cost me if it get damaged. When are the heated seats going to break?
I don’t care if it was made by Toyota and blessed by the Pope, any option in that car is going to break. Might break in 6 months might break in 12 years but it is gonna break.
About the only options I care about are radio with mp3 player and air conditioning. Otherwise nope, nada.
In addition I don't think people think Toyota can do no wrong. Everybody makes flops. Some more recently than others and some more extreme than others and some more often than others.
They are just darned happy not to have unexpected repair costs. If Toyota burns you, you won't be back and there are lots of folks like that. I on the other hand have had a great experience with my Trecel. It runs like a champ. Never left me stranded in 12 years.
Yeah the engine has a defect that causes it to burn oil, but still it didn't do that till 120,000 miles (not a young car and just how long a cheap car is supposed to last?). About the only issues I am getting are now. Very unlike the two fords before it.
In addition people like having the option of being able to keep the car for 200,000 miles even if they don't do so. Nothing ticks people off more than having to do an unexpected repair while still paying for the car (ouch!).
GM has improved its reliability, but as I want something small (not the domestic's forte) and Toyota did a reasonably good job with my aunt's camery, my uncles corolla, my mom's Camry and latter Avalon and my own trecel. I will look at the Yaris first and then other car makers. It is very hard to convince a satisfied customer to swicth and 3000 bucks isn't a lot of cash when you are talking about a car that you plan to keep 5+ years. Trust me my mom probably spent more than that much repair the two dometics before the Toyotas.
The reason why Toyota gains market share is because they tick fewer people off than GM(perhaps having fewer options to break helps. Less reason to have to go back to the dealer). And, they offer compeling product that the dometics don’t seem to have(like the puris).
I am sorry, but if people are willing to spend 3,000 more dollars for a Toyota, then perhaps GM has got it’s pricing wrong.
If you want hp Toyota is not for you, but if you want something small reliable, fuel efficient then you might want to check them out.
Sappiness can be positive...some of MBs heritage ads have been very sentimental...but are really some of the classiest car commercials ever.
Toyota recalls 533,000 Trucks
Although he never gave me a gold watch, he was a very generous man. He took my brother and me to our first major league baseball game, and whenever the vendors came around with their goods, he'd buy us something, even when we didn't ask first!
So we got the whole shootin' match -- hot dogs, ice cream, cola, peanuts, etc.
I think of spots like the MB 'Falling In Love Again', 'The Love Never Fades', and 'Reincarnation'...unforgettable ads for me. Caddy would be well advised to come up with such quality spots.
Very well said. GM/Cadillac should exploit this in commercials while maybe paying respect to the older generation who still reveres Cadillac.
I personally would say Toyota, has much more across the board power than Honda.
Rocky
The only sorta exception is RAV has an optional engine while CRV doesn't. But the 4-cyl CRV has more power than the 4-cyl RAV.
Who woulda' thunk it?! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
Rocky
"To sum it up, the G35 is pretty much the value leader in the entry level luxury sedan class IMO. You don't have to agree with me on this, I am just stating what I believe. "
Again, the G35 is a good value overall but it really looks good compared to overpriced European cars. The CTS was re-priced for the '06 model year and offers pretty good value as well.
I'll take the ones that last 10 years and keep on ticking like the Timex ads.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I never said anywhere on Edmunds that Toyota/Honda "do no wrong." As for a "typical" attitude, that's your opinion -- I've also never bashed GM in these forums. Why should I, given my profile?
Regarding options, both of my Camrys are well equipped, but don't go overboard on the options. The '04 LE has a long list of standard equipment (power everything including driver's seat), plus options such as side airbags, ABS, sunroof, and JBL audio upgrade. MSRP: under $22.8K.
My '05 XLE is the top of the line model with side airbags as the sole option, but ABS was made standard that year. Included in the standard equipment list are power driver and passenger seats, auto climate control, Homelink, auto-dimming rear view mirror, and JBL CD changer. This car doesn't have the sunroof. MSRP: just over $23.7K. And of course I didn't pay anywhere near MSRP for either car.
Granted if you get the V6 engine, Bluetooth, NAV, leather, heated seats, then you're pushing 31K. For that kind of money, I'd be looking at the Acura TL.
As you can see from my old Caddy stories, I go back to a time when all of today's standard features like a/c and power windows, mirrors, seats, cruise, etc. were luxuries; hardly anyone had them in cars of the era. So I approach this from a completely different reference point.
And I agree Lemko could star in a Cadillac ad, especially with his nearly 20-year-old Fleetwood Brougham in pristine condition. Who again said people don't keep cars longer than 5-7 years?
My employer bought the new Ford Edge. The plastic EVERYWHERE is hard, except on the armrest -- completely wrong IMO for a $30K vehicle.
Regarding soft plastics cracking, that seemed to be true in the past, but for one, my '90 Sable's nice soft dash never cracked after 10 years and 135K miles of ownership (never mind the other problems like a failed tranny).
One of my favorite professors in college was the guy that came up with the BE ALL YOU CAN BE campaign for the US Army. Now he had great marketing ideas.
Just kidding. It's funny that some in this forum still believe that American press is conspiring to kill American auto industry. And, it's equally funny that some believe that consumers are switching to Japanese because they are too dumb to figure out that American cars are better.
" I am sorry, but if people are willing to spend 3,000 more dollars for a Toyota, then perhaps GM has got it’s pricing wrong. "
I think not, GM shouldnt price its mainstream offerings much lower than they are now. If people are unwilling to consider reliable domestic offerings and save money that is on them. Your notion that $3000 isn't a lot of money seems at odds with your "keep it cheap and simple" mantra when it comes to cars. On the contrary, to the average buyer $3000 (more if you include interest) is a lot of money. Toyota and Nissan better guarantee me a trouble free experience if I am going to take on thousands of additional debt for a car that, on paper, is no better than an Aura or Fusion. I totally disagree that the $3000 will be spent on repairs anyway in 5 years or so. First of all GM and Ford offer 5 year powertrain warranty so you wont be facing any money out of pocket for tranny or engine issues for 5 years. Secondly, domestics are often cheaper to repair than imports. Thirdly, my parents have an Intrigue that has been out of warranty since 2001 and they haven't spent $3000 on repairs yet, they haven't even come close. They have spent money on maintenance (tires, brakes, etc.) but I would say they have spent less than $500 on actual repairs including a new starter in year 4 or 5.
"If you want hp Toyota is not for you, but if you want something small reliable, fuel efficient then you might want to check them out. "
That I agree with, if you want a small car with good mileage and dont care about performance Toyota is the place to go. Aside from hybrids, Toyotas fuel efficiency advantage is limited to the Corolla and Yaris. The rest of their cars are comparable to everything else on the market although the Camry V6 gets class leading mileage by a couple MPGs. In trucks and SUVs they are average at best. The Camry four cylinder is 1mpg better than the Malibu and G6 and that is likely due to its 5 speed auto. The '08 Malibu is expected to tie or exceed the Camry four's mileage. Honeslt, the only differentiator for Toyota is hybrid technology. If you want one, you better shop at Toyota but in every other segment there are alternatives that are as good, and in many cases cheaper.
"The reason why Toyota gains market share is because they tick fewer people off than GM(perhaps having fewer options to break helps. Less reason to have to go back to the dealer). And, they offer compeling product that the dometics don’t seem to have(like the puris)."
Wrong, Toyota's sales increase because it's lineup gets larger every year and because it makes three fuel efficient cars (yaris, Prius, Corolla) that are popular due to our high prices at the pump. aside from the Prius there isnt anything "compelling" at your local Toyota dealership. Toyota's other hybrids offer fuel economy that could be acheived by smaller engines. The camry hybrid is about 10%-15% more efficient than the much cheaper four cylinder in real world mileage. The mileage on the RX and Highlander hybrids is decent, but not good enough to justify the price premiums. Then to add insult to injury they only offer the electric powertrain on loaded models! What is that? Why do they think people want leather, sunroofs and navigation along with synergy drive? If you care about saving the environment you want to get efficiency at the lowest price possible. dont even get me started on the GS400h that got 20mpg in C&Ds test a few months back. The GS300 can match that mileage for thousands less.
Do you speak out of your experience or out of your "you know what"?
My family owns a 97' Honda Accord and 99' Toyota Camry and both of them utilized a lot "soft plastics". With occasional cares of cleaner and conditioner both of them them are looking better than ever. By the way, we live in Atlanta so our cars got plenty chances to be under "hot summer sun".
Think about it, if you spent the lass 20-30 years praising imports and cracking jokes about domestic vehicles it would be kind of hard to acknowledge that things have changed. Imagine being a rascist public official in the South before the civil rights movement and then being forced to adjust to life after segregation and other practices were ended. It's just like CR and their reliabilty reports. If CR were ever to show that there isnt a large degree of reliability between cars people wouldnt buy their auto issues anymore. It is in CR's best interest to keep brining us bad news about the reliability of domestic cars because that ensures that people will keep reading each year. CR ranks cars in reliability and shows a bunch of graphs, but the bottom line is even the vehicles they give shaded circles arent unreliable, they are merely less reliable than the VERY reliable cars at the top of the list. IN some cases a vehicle may get a black circle even if the problem rate for that vehicle is less than 10%. It's very complicated, but the end result is that vehicles with poor ratings in that magazine are not usually unreliable in the sense that we use the word.
As for the auto buff press, they will give some credit where it's due but everytime that have to make sure the readers know the car they are praising is the exception. The C6, 300C, Aura, Outlook, Sky/Solstice, CTS-V, Tahoe/Yukon, Fusion, etc. are given accolades but it is always with the caveat that "its hard to believe this came from Saturn (or Ford or whomever)". Most reviews I have read about the Aura devote a paragraph or two to criticising former Saturn products and describing how the brand was been a failure. all true, but that is the whole point of reinventing the brand. At some point its time to stop harping on the S series and give credit for the current products.
BTW, the "soft plastics" in 90s Camrys and accords would definitely not cut it today. Hondas especially had plenty of hard surfaces inside before recent models.
Yeah but what does comparable V8s like BMW 5-series, MB E-class and Caddy STS get? The whole selling point for the GS400h is to get V8 power with V6 FE. To me I think that's a job well done for Lexus.
WRONG.
I am actually pretty disappointed at Honda Accord after the 97' MY. Honda IMO took a step back by managed to utilize more hard plastic in the 98' Accord then its predecessor.
What's the auto mag's job? Is it to care about the domestic auto industry or report like the way it is?
If the editors think the domestic entries are inferior to the imports what do you want him/her to do? Lie just because we should support domestic auto industry? If the domestics are truly on par with the imports or even exceed it why would any American with a common sense not want to support it?
I just don't get it with all this media conspiracy theory. Before you point a figer at someone remember that there are 3 pointing at YOU.
CR just had to "withdraw" their babyseat evaluation. Seems they made drastic mistakes. Hmmmmmm.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
CD just did a comparison test, and I guess they're in on the conspiracy too. They didn't like the Aura's interior.
However, I guess they forgot to get the memo on "Toyota Love" as the Aura placed better than the 2007 Camry, and CD complained bitterly about the poor quality of the
Camry interior.
It seems that article isn't online yet, but they did have a Aura review back in Oct 06. Here's what they said:
Once inside, we noticed our enthusiasm fade. It's not a bad interior, in fact compared with previous Saturn models the Aura benefits from nicer materials and better fit and finish, bar none. But it still doesn't stand up against the best interiors in the class, like the Toyota Camry*, Honda Accord, and Kia Optima.
Aura XE Review
*Note that this was before the comparo where they panned the 2007 Camry. By the way the KIA Optima finished higher than either the Camry or the Aura.
BTW, since you are a firm believer in auto mag results I would like to note the CTS beat the 530, E320, S80 and A6 in a comparison in R&T magazine. Does that mean that the CTS is absolutely superior to those cars in your mind? I doubt it. At least R&T thoroughly explains their test results and doesnt give away 1st place to the car with the softest plastics.
The Optima has a nice interior. It's bland but I would get it long before I let Honda or Toyota take my money.
The 'vette finally just died, and no attempt at resuscitation was made.
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I didnt say their job was to promote domestics, but I am saying their job is to be fair and leave their personal hatred out of the equation. didnt you ever hear about the "objective" guy from the LA times who wrote and article about the G6 that was so off base that GM pulled advertising? He barely even talked about the car, he started it off by insulting Lutz and Wagoner and calling for their resignation since they allowed a POS like the G6 to be made. What does that have to do with auto reviewing?
"If the editors think the domestic entries are inferior to the imports what do you want him/her to do? Lie just because we should support domestic auto industry? If the domestics are truly on par with the imports or even exceed it why would any American with a common sense not want to support it? "
Read my earlier post. As I said, if you have spent your whole career making jokes about american cars and recommending Japanese cars why would you want to jump up and proclaim "The differences between these cars are actually minimal" and encourage people to shop domestics. Generally speaking, domestic models are on par in terms of design, performance and ergonomics. They usually are superior in terms of value for your money and styling. As each deficiency has been addressed, the nitpicks move to something else. Back in the day (5 years maybe) people used to say domestics weren't equal due to panel tolerances, build quality, number of gears in automatics, engine choices, quietness, etc. Now that those issues are largely obsolete the focus has shifted to softness of plastics. This has to be the number one issue complained about and when you really look at it most complaints or non-recommendations come down to look and feel of plastics. Keep in mind that these same vehicles are often thousands cheaper than their competition and have no issues with actual build quality.
A classic example of media indiffernce (I'll forego bias if it makes you feel better) is the coverage of the Sebring. I dont even like the car, but it makes a strong case for itself. It is impressively equipped, has unique styling and offers great value. C&D ripped the car because it was too soft (hasnt Toyota made a killing on soft cars) and didnt even mentione its features or value. Edmunds ripped it for not being a sports sedan and having (surprise!!) hard plastics and then basically marginalized its features as gimmicks. I cant see the car getting the same treatment if it was a Honda or Hyundai. In fact, reviews of the car focus more on the old cars status as a rental king than the new car's appeal. I have yet to read a review that treats the car as a general duty family car that would interest people who dont autocross on the weekend. every review of a domestic car ends the same way "a great effort by (insert brand) but we doubt many camry or accord owners would be convinced to buy it".
Karl, chief editor here on edmunds has finally come around to admitting that most GM products (especially the recent ones) are basically as good as the imports. You can find minor nits to pick and what not but the differences just arent that big and GM vehicles are often cheaper and better looking than their import counterparts. And now they have a better warranty as well. while it's true that GM's vehicles have improved of late, I was making some of these points to Karl two+ years ago and at the time he was adamant that GM was failing and needed to look to Ford and Chrysler for tips on how to make decent American cars. He totally dismissed all of their offerings (including the Vette, CTS, XLR, etc.) and said he wouldnt recommend any of them. His attitude has definitely changed and I dont think it was merely because he saw the new GM SUVs and pickups.
"If the editors think the domestic entries are inferior to the imports what do you want him/her to do? Lie just because we should support domestic auto industry? If the domestics are truly on par with the imports or even exceed it why would any American with a common sense not want to support it? "
I'll reserve my judgment for Aura, Malibu and CTS for now since I haven't got a chance to see those in person. I will though in March when I am going to the Atlanta Auto Show. There I'll get a chance to compare Aura, Camry and Accord side by side so I'll get a better idea about how much improvement has GM made for its new series of sedans.
1487, inferior grade plastic might not mean much to you but to some others (like me) that could well be the dictating factor for the purchasing decision. So maybe for you when those editors pointing out hard plastic it might sounds like nit picking to you but for me that's a great piece of information. What does that mean to me? It means GM has come a long way since the 90s for its sedans but still, no cigar yet.
My, touchy, ain't we?
CTS beat the 530, E320, S80 and A6
Well - I've driven the 530 and E320, but not the S80 or the A6. Having said that, here's my spin:
530:
I like BMW, but don't care at all for the new 5 series. Unlike many people, I actually kind of like the styling, but I hate the 'disconnected' feel of the car. Idrive is a pain. I spent the whole drive playing with it to figure it out. Bah. This car is in no way what I think a BMW should be.
E320:
No thanks. It's solid as a vault, but only accountants want to spend much time sitting on a bench in the vault. My impression of the interior was of a well furnished waiting room. My general impression of the E class is that it'll go as fast as you like, but won't leave much of an impression doing it. Additionally, my uncle learned a lot of bad German words before he dumped his.
S80:
If accountants drive E class Mercedes, who does that leave to drive Volvos? Actuaries and safety-paranoid housewives. I miss the old "Vermont Farmer" 240's when Volvo's weren't that fancy but were safe and durable. A car you could see parked at the opera with a Gore bumper sticker, but one that might also be used to transport a (small) cow in the backseat. I'm not a Volvo guy.
A6:
As much as the magazines and the owners love these cars, I've never been able to shake my superstitious belief that an Audi is a repair-bill waiting to happen. This silly belief comes from my impression that I've spent many years of watching friends happily pay dearly for the Audi experience. No thanks there.
CTS:
If I must choose one of the cars listed, I might try the CTS on a lease-lark where I'd know I would walk away without wounding my wallet. The styling looks like a 65 caddy on Jupiter where the atmospheric pressure has squeezed the car into a smaller space - I don't like it much. The interior is plain but good enough. The driving dynamics are supposed to be good. If the the reliability is OK and the dealer experience is good, I might consider it.
However in the end, I'd prefer a 330i, which isn't one of my choices above. The caddy would have to underbid the 330 by quite a bit to win that toss.
Just for reference the LaCrosse door trim is all soft vinyl that is molded with the plastic substrate with the "padding" molded in. This adds about $100/car in costs and would raise the price of the car by about $200. That is a lot of money. In fact the LaCrosse is probably the last car from anyone in the midsize market that has soft feel materials used almost throughout the entire interior. neither Camry nor Accord have as much.
The Pickups and SUVs from GM have been highly hailed for their interiors yet they are all hard platic. They just look good with tight gaps, low gloss, nice graining and good design. The Toyota Tundra is also all hard plastic. Not one soft part in the interior. No padding, no vinyl, no soft touch paint. Unfortunately the interior does not look that great. They have a lot of gray painted looking trim plates that look cheap.
Now there is a difference in soft feel technologies. Cheapest is soft touch paint which gives a velvety feel and used on trimplates on some vehicles like the LaCrosse. Then there is a vinyl coating with no padding and then a vinyl with foam backing that was used throughout the Century and Regal. The CTS uses a lot of soft vinyl w/o padding and some may think this is hard if they are used to padding like the old Buicks. That thick foamed stuff is pretty much gone everywhere.
Camry interior.
It seems that article isn't online yet, but they did have a Aura review back in Oct 06. Here's what they said:
Once inside, we noticed our enthusiasm fade. It's not a bad interior, in fact compared with previous Saturn models the Aura benefits from nicer materials and better fit and finish, bar none. But it still doesn't stand up against the best interiors in the class, like the Toyota Camry*, Honda Accord, and Kia Optima.
Aura XE Review
*Note that this was before the comparo where they panned the 2007 Camry. By the way the KIA Optima finished higher than either the Camry or the Aura.
Bit confused. They said the Camry had a great interior, then they said the Aura was better than the Camrys but was not a great one, and then they said the Camry had a bad interior.
It died on me the first day on the road.
It had more problems with it than there is space to write here. I bought a 1984 Camry and I've been in one ever since.
When we had to settle for schlock cars because that was all you could buy...so be it. Toyota changed the scenery.
Maybe the domestic cars are on par today but they lost my confidence a long time ago.
https://clacc.gmadmanager2004.com:443/am/media_review_eshow2.asp?b=1&l=80206
Sorry for my failure to write clearly. Let me try again In the October 2006 review of the Aura only (without any other cars at hand) they compared the Aura's interior unfavorably to the 2006 Camry's. This quote is available on line.
In February? (latest issue at home) they complained about the interior in the 2007 Camry, and stated that among other things, the rear cupholder fell out, leaving a ragged looking hold in the upholstry where it had been. This article does not seem to be online yet.
So, 2006 interior, Jah, Liebe! 2007 interior ist nicht so gut!
Maybe the domestic cars are on par today but they lost my confidence a long time ago
Maybe, even quite likely they are on par, or in some cases better. But for right now, I'll let others test out that theory with their money. When I feel confident, I'll test it with mine.
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What this discussion makes obvious is that Toyota and Honda buyers are looking for efficiency and longevity as opposed to excitement and frequent upgrades in gadgetry and power. Two different markets, and neither market segment is going to be won over by the products meant to satisfy the other.