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Comments
what's the savings between getting 25 mpg and 30 or 25 mpg anyhow? Something like a dollar a day at best?
I think I'd choose a little more comfortable interior over 5 mpg! :confuse:
I'd rather have both. Just a matter of finding a car with good seats, thoughtful ergonomics, and moderate power.
Actually, the Cutlass Supreme was starting to fade out around the 1984-86 timeframe. In 1984 it was the 4th most popular car, but then fell to 9th for 1985. I remember those positions because the article I got it from said that the Cutlass Ciera and Supreme swapped positions between 1984 and 1985.
In 1986, the Cutlass Supreme was no longer in the top ten selling cars. I think the Celebrity was actually the #1 car for 1986. While the Taurus was a strong seller in 1986, I don't think it toppled the Celebrity for midsized crown until 1987. IIRC, for 1986 GM went from 7 of the top ten sellers to 6. I believe they lost the Cutlass Supreme and Delta 88 (which never did very well as an FWD model), but gained the Grand Am, which was a hot seller once the 4-door was introduced.
At least, this is just going on memory of articles I read in the auto section of the newspaper eons ago, so don't take my memory as the gospel! :P
If they kept the price low on the Camaro, have an economical, yet performance V6 like the 3.6 in it, I do think a Camaro could sell in quantity. That is if GM has capacity for building this model. Seems risky to dedicate a lot of production line for a coupe these days. I personally would like a smaller car in RWD, about the size of the G6, and use it for a sedan and the Camaro, and sell in the $21k to $23K range.
Amazing how well some cars sold back in the 60's, before the competition from abroad, and taking in to consideration people bought cars more often. I think GM missed the boat with the Solstice, as they could have produced the show coupe in larger numbers, and it could have been a success like the '70 Datsun 240Z was. Will it ever come out now? And if so the appeal will be less, as the look will not be as fresh. Oh well. :shades:
Loren
Loren
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
My theory is make about every model a hybrid at GM, and the $2,000 price will not make o break a deal once the consumer calculate the drastic improvement in fuel economy. If GM, offers the 2-mode on most all it's cars one would assume they could buy in such large volumes the negine could be made even cheaper.
Rocky
Rocky
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
Rocky
Daimler in negligent law suit involving wrongful death.
Possible bad news and bad pubicity coming soon.
Famous motorcycle builder Kills man with Dodge's truck.
google; billy lane
Actually, those old-school midsized Supremes held on through 1977, and were downsized for '78. The downsized models were considered reliable cars for the most part, but the 231 V-6 was often troublesome up through 1984 (it got a redesigned block for 1985 that fixed most of its problems). Also, models equipped with the lightweight THM200C transmission tended to have premature failure. And oddly enough, the V-6 models often ended up with the beefier THM350, while the more powerful V-8 models, especially if it was a Chevy V-8, often got stuck with the lightweight transmission!
Once they started using mainly Olds 307's mated to the 4-speed automatic though, they were pretty bulletproof. I had an '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe with the 231 and THM350 transmission. Only car I've ever owned where I've had both the transmission AND the engine fail! To be fair though, it was 11 years old when I bought it, and I only paid $800 for it. When the tranny went bad, I paid to have it rebuilt, thinking I was going to keep this car for a long, long time. But when the engine started to crap out, I said screw it, and ditched it.
Nice, comfortable car though, and I thought it was really good looking. And I LOVED the color. It was "Jadestone", a light metallic silvery/greenish/bluish color, with a matching interior and color-keyed rally wheels.
I always liked the 80's 442 version of the Supreme. It wasn't as over-the-top as the Monte SS with its custom wedge nose, but it had, IMO, a nicer interior than the Grand National, which was often stuck with the lame-o 85 mph strip speedometer with numbers on it big enough for my legally-blind 83 year old grandmother to still be able to read! Plus, I like the fact that Olds went through the effort to hop up their 307 engine, which I've always preferred to the Chevy 305.
Oh, and I agree...the 1972 Cutlass was a beautiful car! I'm sure Grbeck would agree!
Thanks. I had that on my lookup list when I read it. I had a 1977 brown Cutlass Supreme with half vinyl room (tan). A coworker bought an Olds 98 in same colors because he liked my Supreme.
The Jadestone was a great color. I always thought it was like ocean surf spray. The Ralley wheels were beautiful.
My 1980 was a 260 V8 with THM 350. No problems. Lighter smaller. Slightly better gas mileage overall. The cloth seats made both cars really comfortable.
GM really built some great cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
bumpy, here you go asking me something I don't think I ever heard of ? :P
hybrid 6-gun ? :surprise:
Rocky
Loren
And then came the pollution controls in the 80s and downsizing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
That car had a 350 V8 with a 3-speed automatic. Oh, it was a flashy car for the time, considering what most '73s looked like. But now I think of it as garish -- the first-gen '70-'72s are much nicer. At least we had the all-steel roof -- no vinyl top. And it was a nice shade of dark blue, with a matching cloth interior.
It was rated at 145 hp as I recall. Had to be towed twice to the dealer for carb problems and stalling early on (Rube Goldberg emissions controls), but after those initial teething troubles, it was a reliable if somewhat sloppily assembled car (I still remember the warped plastic glove box lid). My brother took it to California with him in the mid-80s, and it went past at least 100K miles.
Gas mileage: 8-9 in town (very short trips -- everything was so close). On long trips, the best I could ever coax out of it was 19 mpg.
Oh yeah, someone mentioned those extra-long fan shrouds -- this car had one, to span the huge gap between the radiator and front of the engine! That's where the rear legroom went!
Let's see, I had a '76 Olds Starfire with the 231 V6, I think it was. Long time ago. I think it was around 120 HP, but it could have been say 115. Of course I had to get the stick shift, with a clutch so hard to pull in the plate holding the cable actually pulled through the firewall. I was foolish not to have bought the automatic, or at the least waited to get a test run in one with a stick. The gearing was so low, top speed was around 80 MPH. But back when the darn 55 MPH law was in force. But the car was revving highly by 65 MPH with the stick model. And of course, it was '77 model year in which they balanced the motor, so the whole lotta shakin' going on, was more tamed. It was a sporty looking car, handled OK, though weak front springs were a typical Olds/GM of that era. Had fun with car, then retired the poor thing in around five or so years for $299 sold to a wholesaler. Could not sell the darn thing. Kinda neat how the wheels had a matching color to the car. And the fastback design made it look fast -- at least it looked fast. Last car owned without air conditioning. Another silly thing was to buy a car without air. But, like I said before, I managed to have fun with all cars owned over the years, even those of questionable quality, or performance.
A friend and I took a trip back the early 80's to see the air show near Reno. We drove his '79 Z28. I think we got like 14MPG. Would love to have gotten 17 to 20 MPG. Great trip, and a fun car to drive the twisty road down from Tahoe to Reno. Can not recall the road we took down -- I think it was down from Mt. Rose in Tahoe. The '79 Camaro Z28 handled great. Not the greatest HP in that year, but it scoots along OK. Looked great too!
Loren
Well, IF the two mode hybrid is as great as they say (and I'm still suspicious of that), then this would be a coup for GM. They could market it heavily and with gas probably going only up from here, it could be the beginning of a big sales improvement.
I say put the african-american guy (forget his name) who runs the buick, brand in Lutz's place as he is way more optomistic and is more likable. :mad:
Rocky
Loren
Was it a 2 or 4 bbl? I had a '75 Apollo, and hp was rated at 105 or 110.
Camaro of 1967, as well as 1964.5 Mustang, were America's answer and version of sporty type cars offered as an alternative to "real" sports cars from Britain, Germany and Italy. Young people of that era valued and yearned for affordable sports or sporty cars and Mustang, Camaro and Firebird delivered. Youth of today have been brought up in mostly dumbed-down households of minivans, suvs, pickups, etc. I see examples of this in my neighborhood and some relatives and friends. Their expectations for vehicles have been tainted in some part by what they grew up in and what their parents drive.
We will all see if new Camaro is success in market and will appeal to all generations, but especially the youth. It will not make it (IMO) if main buyers are older people trying to relive their youth.
Too bad that GM has not tried to use BMW 3 series as benchmark and build serious contenders under Pontiac and/or Chevrolet brands. GM had/has the resources and presumably the talent to pull it off.
Ed Wellburn, is the guys name. I think he should replace Lutz. The man has style like Lee Iaccoa..... :shades:
Rocky
Loren
Today, we have the paddle shifter, which is not so bad an idea for holding a gear on a curvy road. Not sure I would use it for normal shifting. Only played with one on the Aura XR.
Loren
I thought you told us you never drove the Saturn XR ? :confuse:
I thought you only drove the 3.5 V6 which isn't the 3.6 XR trim ?????? :confuse:
Rocky
Loren
I had originally thought they were just a silly rant from him and that maybe he should be given his walking papers. He reminded me of Hank (the Deuce) Ford and Lee Iacocca crying on Nixon's shoulder about safety and emissions controls threatening to put Ford out of business back in the 1970s.
But then it hit me. Lutz is putting on an act, hoping to get sympathy from the pro-business Bush administration. Surely, George Bush wouldn’t want to be known for putting the final nail in GM’s coffin.
The irony is that Bush isn’t even directly proposing an increase in fuel economy standards to 34 mpg in 10 years. Bush simply set a goal of America using 8.5 billion fewer gallons of gasoline annually by 2017. Improving average fuel economy is only one way to achieve this goal, but using alternative fuels like ethanol, biodiesel, and battery electric power are others. Or we could drive less and use public transportation. So it’s just a charade on Lutz’s part, but a shrewd one.
Rocky
If GM, cancels the ZETA RWD's they are done, finished, as so many folks would be devistated. I hope your right on Lutz, playing mind games but if he does cancel the RWD Zeta's, I'm also done with GM. I was really thinking about going Buick Velite Sedan/Convertible as a future car. The CTS-V is still on my short list but the difference now is the CTS-V shares the list with the Hyundai Genesis, and perhaps the Lincoln MKS
I went to the Mitsubishi, dealer to get a close-up of the Lancer, but unfortunately there were none. :sick:
I need to see a current Lancer, to see just how big a EVO-X might be ????? iluv's Lancer has some style and grace that is catchy. The EVO-X will be a interesting car. It has definitely some unique advantages but gotta see if size will be a disadvantage ?
Rocky
An Alternative plan would be like this:
Chevy Impala/Buick Lucerne on G-Platform, both having standard 3.6L V6 and optional 4.6L V8. Impala being for the budget minded and would take over where the LeSabre left off.
Chevy Malibu/Saturn Aura/Buick LaCrosse share the same platform. With the Lacrosse shares the platform with Malibu, Impala moves to G-platform and the Grand Prix is dead, this way GM can cancel the old W-platform.
As for Pontiac: It can have RWD cars only, G8 and GTO built in Australia. As for the G6, it would be nice if G6 finds a RWD to use for this mid size sedan. Maybe a streched Kappa Platform?
Still longing for the Velite coupe? GM can use either a more expensive Kappa platform, or a less expensive Corvette platform.
Taking even more of the parts for autos back to Japan and then shipping them here to assemble certain cars could mean Japan is recognizing the slip in quality. Assembling whole cars there for export to the US will continue and will be preferred is what I gather from the article.
The article's author, oriental by name, kept pointing out GM lost money. I wonder how they connect that to Japanese comapnies producing more parts in Japan?
What will even less parts production here in US for Japanese companies mean for GM?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's the same size as a Cobalt.
Lancer: length 180", width 69.4", height 58.7", wheelbase 103.7"
Cobalt: length 180.3", width 67.9", height 55.7" wheelbase 103.3"
He should stil be smacked in the head for trying that, instead of going out and pushing high-mpg large cars and trucks. This is like the kid who spent all his time playing outside instead of studying, then trying to convince the teacher not to give the test.
Holden tried it out back in '99.
Remember, Holden used BMW 5 Series as the benchmark.
Wheels magazine here in Aus did a compero on a Holden Calais vs BMW 5 recently.
The Holden handled better.
As I have posted in the G8 forum, the steering is way too forward for AWD.
They have a crash rateing of 1 star.
G8 has a five star rateing.
I think it goes on sale next month.
Also getting the Cadillac CTSV? The new one anyway.
Don't know why, an SS Commodore should blow it away.