Know nothing about Intelligent AWD. Do know the EPS II will be AWD capable.
As for a CVT, I know some still use it but it is not really taking off and I doubt if GM will be putting any money into developing one.
As far as a Acura TL. Maybe you can tell me why the CTS is not a good competitor. Same price point ($33k on up). Perhaps the CTS is too large? Are you looking for a FWD instead of a RWD? Seems like the G8 with the standard V6 really competes with the base TL at a much lower price point. Add all the crap you want and it will still be competitive. If you want even more performance drop in the V8 and really kick TL's Type-S butt. Perhaps the new alpha Cadillac would do OK with you? (a ways off though)
Pontiac already uses OHC in their Solstice, G5, Vibe, G6, G8 and Torrent. What are you talking about!! The 3.6 is about as slick as it gets, especially in it's highest HP form.
Oh yea, as I said in the other forum the new Malibu kick Camry's big butt,
It actually is a very good review. They had a few of their own opinions on what they wanted but it is up to the buyer to decide if they want a power 3rd row seat or really have to have a passenger power seat recline in the base vehicle. issue with the power rear seat or hatch for me is they are too darn slow. I would rather be able to unclick a latch and throw the seat down. Of course it depends on how easy it is to throw down and I wish they would have commented on it. At least with the power hatch you can push the button and walk away.
As I said before Edmunds found in their own survey they are out of touch with their readers. Surprised the heck out of them. Hopefully they will stop giving reviews on GM vehicles with the slanted diatribe. Then again it does help to light up their own forums!
I think though that the bottom line is that the imports are still making more money than a comparable vehicle built in the US. Now that would be an interesting item for any government group trying to really figure out the true delta in cost. Just ask Toyota!
And yes there is no doubt we are, and want to do this. Cheap goods from overseas are what everyone wants. Stop that and all hell would break out here. Sorry to say but US is no longer a real powerhouse. We are living on our children and they will be in sad shape.
How does a show car and handful of test mules kick the butt of America's #1 seller? Save that boast for a Malibu that can actually be purchased at a dealer.
...one American and one Asian and the American car turned out to be the better one, they'd say the Asian car came in second and the American car next to last.
Who said anything about a show car and a handful of test mules? And I do not "boast". I deal with facts I can/will back up. Not saying it will become the #1 seller (how could anyone beat a Toyota!) but it really will give them a good run.
Pilots are now built and available and being driven. Long lead media should be in them about now. Pilots are built with production parts that MAY not be totally approved.
I agree with bumpy, and I'd rather wait. We heard exactly the same things about the 2004 Malibu and 2005 G6. Some people would swear those cars with their european underpinnings were GM's ticket to supremacy. It didn't happen. While I am encouraged by the 2008 Malibu's 4-cyl/6-spd combination, I think the Malibu V6 won't set the world on fire. Nice enough yes, but the Camry is simply more powerful and consumes less fuel. What's more, the Accord/Camry could easily slip a 6-speed under their four bangers for 2008. The Accord is even said to have a 180hp+ 4-cylinder
Gearing differences would make some difference. The V6 SRX has a 3.73:1 or a 3.91:1 axle ratio. The Acadia has a 3.16 or 2.73:1. Both have the same overdrive ratio - 0.75:1. The SRX has a 5 speed automatic while the Acadia has six - with a much lower low gear.
The SRX's V8 gets a 3.23:1 axle with a six speed that has on overdrive (6th) of 0.67:1. I now have one, so will see how it does. So far it is averaging about 17 on regular gas (that is what the dealer put in :sick: ). I have not gone very far yet.
I can go out and drive a 2007 Camry today if I wanted to. I can't drive a 2008 Malibu today. When GM's great hope hits the street (regular production, not hand-buffed promotional cars), then we'll see how much if any butt it kicks. Them's facts. :P
In the HP war it is basically a wash to the toyota buying public. The four has slightly more and the V6 has slightly less. And the Camry buying public really does not care.
And yes the 6 speed is available with the four while the Camry has only a 5 speed. Again nothing I hang my hat on with the buying public.
But the entire package is pretty sweet and you will all have to wait to see what it looks like.
"Cheap goods from overseas are what everyone wants. Stop that and all hell would break out here. Sorry to say but US is no longer a real powerhouse. We are living on our children and they will be in sad shape."
This gets to the heart of the matter, I think, when it comes to the meat of the import/domestic cost disadvantage. Few truer words have been uttered in this forum.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
1. Congratulations for finally posting sources. 2. Now you need to start reading them before you post.
They've worthless as they do not prove anything regarding Japanese currency manipulation - they've either press releases by Democrats from Michigan, or outdated, or actually work to disprove your argument.
A press release from a Democrat from Michigan - think it might be political, hmmmm?
U.S. Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) today introduced legislation to stop the Japanese government from participating in the unfair trade practice of manipulating the Japanese yen. This policy provides a subsidy to exporters, resulting in an unfair competitive advantage over American manufacturers
The U.S. Treasury doesn't believe Japan is manipulating its currency
U.S. automakers are particularly critical of the Treasury, which so far has taken the position that Japan is not manipulating its currency. In February, despite calls from the auto industry, Rangel and Dingell, the Treasury declined to press for currency manipulation to be included on the agenda of a G-7 meeting of finance ministers.
Detroit Automakers praise the Detroit Democrat's proposed legislation - well, THERE's proof - LOL
The Automotive Trade Policy Council, whose members include General Motors, Ford and DaimlerChrysler, praised legislation introduced today by Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
A Detroit Democrat's press release from 2005 is proof? I think not.
Congressman Dale E. Kildee (D-MI) urged Treasury Secretary John Snow to stand up for American workers and address the effects of Japan’s longstanding policy of currency manipulation at the recent meeting of the G7 Finance Ministers in Washington
Oh wait! The Japanese haven't intervened in the currency market for 3 years!
When confronted with the fact that the Bank of Japan has not officially intervened on behalf of the Yen since 2004, the automakers respond that the government continues to threaten intervention in the event that the Yen actually appreciates. This is tantamount to currency manipulation, they argue
WASHINGTON – Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., co-chair of the Senate Auto Caucus, today urged President Bush to address concerns over Japanese currency manipulation with the Japanese Prime Minister at the upcoming G8 meeting.
It IS a good one to read, if you read it all the way to the end, LOL
Now the US Treasury Department is saying that Japan hasn’t manipulated the currency markets since January through March 2004. On January 1, 2004, the yen was at 104.40 against the dollar. Ninety days later, on April 1st, just after the BOJ’s supposed three months of currency manipulation ended? On that day the rate was 104.40 - no move. And on the last day of 2004? 103.10 The yen gained strength in 2004. Maybe what US automakers really need is for someone to bring that manipulation back
Testimony from Mr. Tom Carper who has a small axe to grind:
I have been working with Sen. Biden, Rep. Castle and the State of Delaware to ensure that the Chrysler plant in Newark, Delaware – which employs 2224 people – stays open.
Oh, and as part of his testimony, Mr. Carper acknowledges,: Today’s Treasury Department report finds that “the Japanese authorities have not intervened in the foreign exchange market since March 2004 when the yen was around ¥109 per dollar.”
Really, Rockylee, this is pretty sad as evidence of currency manipulation. If I were grading a student, I'd give you a C- at best and then only because you finally posted something as support, even if you didn't read what you posted...
Oh and something from a later post of yours:
why would some members of congress want to introduce a bill without having the facts to support it. I know the japanese have baught and paid for the Boxer's and Feinsteins to squash this bill
Now let me get this straight. The Japanese have bought politicians, but those Michigan Democrats are just fine honest citizens with the best interest of all of America in mind, right? Or are you saying that -as well as making better cars - the Japanese are better at buying politicans than the Big 2.5?
The negativity approach to writing everything in the article proves the point about Edmund's approach, whether this is a freelance that they use articles from or a house writer. I couldn't have written a more insuinuation demeaning and slanted article myself--and I aced advanced English in college.
It sure does make the point that you can demean something with faint praise. And some think Consumer Reports is fair...
Know nothing about Intelligent AWD. Do know the EPS II will be AWD capable.
Well Mr. Lutz, I just assumed you could give me the engineering breakdown on "intellegent AWD". I would like to know if it's different from the STS's AWD system and this is a new version of it. I was under the impression the STS AWD system was a lot like Quattro, but never understood if it worked like Quattro/Smart Trak and distributed power from front wheels to rear wheels ????
As for a CVT, I know some still use it but it is not really taking off and I doubt if GM will be putting any money into developing one.
Okay, but you think GM, is working on a DSG unit ?
As far as a Acura TL. Maybe you can tell me why the CTS is not a good competitor. Same price point ($33k on up).
It is a good competitor but the TL, is more sporty. The 09' is pretty much gauranteed to get Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system. The TL, just seems so much moe fuel efficent than the CTS. Of course I don't know what CTS owners are getting with 6-speed manuals with the 3.6 either. I guess I could be over racting a bit as Direc Injection should help also. Trust me the CTS and CTS-V are ranked in my Top 2 as my next car.
Perhaps the CTS is too large?
No as the CTS and TL, according to the BMW 3 lovers are often referred to being to big to be considered a competitor. Remeber the TL, is slightly larger in size than a Accord Sedan.
Are you looking for a FWD instead of a RWD?
What I'd like to have 62' is a slick AWD sedan with a 6-speed manual or DSG. I've been told CTS will not get a manual option on the Intellegent AWD model but the TL, will on it's new SH-AWD. If I'm going to settle for RWD, I might just as well buy a CTS-V. Do any of you know if the new CTS, has Voice Recognition capability ???? I loved that feature in my TL, as it worked great with bluetooth. I could say dial home. It would do it. My other gripe with the 08' CTS, is the lack of bluetooth. I read this feature will be delayed as the Europeans are getting it first. This ticked me off 62'. :mad: I guess if I wait for the CTS-V, it will be available (I hope) by then.
Seems like the G8 with the standard V6 really competes with the base TL at a much lower price point. Add all the crap you want and it will still be competitive.
From a performance, interior perspective it competes well but it lacks the 5.1 Surround Sound, Voice Recognition System, of the current TL. I am going to reasonably assume Acura will add even more "gadgets" in the 2009' TL.
If you want even more performance drop in the V8 and really kick TL's Type-S butt.
Of course but you will have to spend in the mid $50's to do that on the 09'. I like I said believe Acura will make it's 09' TL, meet or exceed the competition in power and performance.
Perhaps the new alpha Cadillac would do OK with you? (a ways off though)
Well Mr. Lutz (62vetteefp) :P just what in the heck are you talking about ???? Alpha Cadillac :surprise: :confuse: My brain is saying BLS ???? Am I right ? That my friend is way to small for myself, wife, kids. CTS size is the bare mininum I think I cab live with. The TL, was the "right size" when we had it.
Pontiac already uses OHC in their Solstice, G5, Vibe, G6, G8 and Torrent. What are you talking about!!
What ? I was told by some people the 3.6 V6 is a push-rod like the 3800 ????? Dude the technical [non-permissible content removed] I have no clue on and I'll admit it. I'm as lost as a blonde on the technical stuff. So the 3.6 "High Feature" is a smooth OHC like those Japanese Engines ????? Well sorry that I feel just dumb now for believing other people !!!! :sick:
The 3.6 is about as slick as it gets, especially in it's highest HP form.
I've only road in one CTS, and it was the 2.8 V6 (I believe)
Oh yea, as I said in the other forum the new Malibu kick Camry's big butt
Now that is somethig I want to see. I wished GM, would re open some more Saturn dealerships or allow the multi brand-GM dealerships to sell saturns.
Well I read it twice and still felt the same as you pal.
But what edmunds would of said about a Toyota or Honda CUV, were the common words of Toyota or Honda BUILD QUALITY, RELIABILTY, The switches are big and legible, etc.... They would push the small stuff to give the reader a perception of superiority. :mad:
Hi! First time to this forum, so my apologies for butting in here.
I'm confused as to how 'everything written in the article' can be construed as negative. I had read:
"What is new, however, is the concept of compelling, cohesive styling from Buick. The Enclave concept vehicle that appeared at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show proved to be a surprise hit. And the production vehicle maintains all of the concept's graceful lines and voluptuous curves. Even the fake portholes and the headlights with the blue rings made it to production."
and
"And while the 275-horsepower 3.6-liter V6 has a heavy load to carry, the Enclave isn't slow."
"More important, the Enclave feels plenty quick enough."
"According to the vehicle's trip computer, our very green example averaged 16 mpg in mixed driving."
"Regardless of how many miles the Enclave will roll on a gallon of regular gas, each mile will likely pass by quietly. The Enclave glides around town as quiet and smooth as Buick would have you believe it is. The engine sends just a faint vibration through the steering column and pedals under acceleration. Otherwise, the Enclave driver is almost completely isolated from the outside world — in a mostly good way. The softly tuned suspension and the tall tire sidewalls smother all but the biggest bumps. The four-wheel disc brakes respond to the pedal smoothly and progressively. And wind noise is nearly nonexistent."
If I have cited the wrong article, I apologize. I guess it's all in how you spin the words. This whole article reads to me as an honest opinion by someone who didn't thoroughly do his homework (I like comparisons to a number of other makes and models embedded within the text).
This forum is about how GM is to succeed, right? All I'm reading is a bunch of guys getting overly sensitive and defensive (and political?!?). As far as I'm concerned, GM/FORD will be on the right track as long as they realize that the competition isn't just coming from across the street in Detroit, and that car-buying trends are not always based on trends/gas prices from 40 years ago.
We're living in a day and age wherein BOTH parents working doesn't necessarily mean making ends meet, where holding onto an average of $5000 in debt (conservative) is the status quo, and the BENEFITS of a job sometimes outweighs the actual paycheck from said job. This can mean new buying habits, and as long as the 'old boy' system of doing things stays in place, we'll continue on until Ford and GM merge to form the ONLY US car manufacturing company.
We have (predicted) gas prices approaching >$3.00/gal for regular gas this summer, and people are still manufacturing SUV's instead of more efficient wagons?!? We're STILL reading about how GM installs interiors that don't match up to class leaders?
Personally, I'm waiting till either the Ford Fusion gets a more efficient 6 cylinder or the Buick LaCrosse stops handling like a boat, then I'll be looking to trade... c'mon people! Let's get positive out there!
Thanks bumpy. Their is a difference between OHC and DOHC, right ? Both would be OHC but the DOHC would have 2 OHC's ?
I honestly did not know the 3.6 was a DOHC engine.
So that means the reason why my 3.4 DOHC V6 in my 95' CutlassConvertible was so smooth was because it was a OHC engine, right ?
Bumpy I ned some fatherly like education. Just what in the heck does a OHC or dual over-head cam do for a engine ? Like what I mean is why are they a lot smoother than a push-rod ?
First I want to welcome you to the forum. Yes things get "heated" in here at times. It always has and probably always will be that way when talking about GM. I assume you own a Toyota, thus you haven't had to endure the pain us GM, fans have for years. You also haven't had to endure a government that hasn't leveled the playing field YET!!!
Our car company (GM) is building great cars and we still can't buy a positive review without the negative tone. As far as the Enclave article goes let's just say most of us feel it's slanted just like the Silverado vs Tundra comparo edmunds did about 3 or 4 months back. I don't recall televised or written media that wasn't slanted against GM or their products.
It's like toyota, can do no wrong even though they have by far took the lead in recalls for what the last 2 or 3 years. The media, says they are still reliable as ever. Just ask Consumer Reports
It's kinda like Fox News, saying they are fair and balanced. Follow me !!!!
While the items above are debatable, the simple fat that the second part of rockylee's post is absolutely true. Through a series of rules, regulations, and paperwork, they manage to tie up almost every import from around the planet that comes into Japan that's a durable good of any kind(as opposed to music or software or similar ).
The inspections every other year are another problem - most people after 3-4 years have to replace the entire ENGINE as they will no longer pass smog requirements. Try to replace a GM engine... yeah, not going to happen.
Then there's the parts as he mentioned, and of course, the real hit - taxes are based upon weight and displacement, which is set to kick in at anything over 3.0L. Essentially this is a luxury surcharge that bumps the effective price on the road of most every U.S. car up several thousand dollars.
To say that they don't manipulate their car market is absurd.
To say that they don't manipulate their car market is absurd
Duh....
Gosh, I guess they should be like the U.S. where there are no rules about emissions, or safety equipment, or crash tests, or bumper designs, or headlights, or DOT approved parts. Yup...... ain't no stinkin' government rules here! Not even for the type of paint.
The county of Japan is small but rich. The government has attempted to keep down the number of cars on the road, and particularly large cars by taking measures to discourage people from owning cars. This is done through displacement taxes and inspection requirements. It's also part of the plot that you have to have your parking space measured and certified before you can buy a new car. The purpose is to prove that you have a place to park it and that the space is big enough. As I said, it's a small country.
So, the Japanese make their own car companies play by those rules.... big deal.
By the way, you don't have to replace the engines. You just have to have them taken apart and have the the parts measured for wear. Same for the master brake cylinder. Maybe the American cars have to have those parts replaced, but none of the Japanese cars I had there ever had any replaced.
The inspection is where the cost comes in and not the replacement of any parts.
Of course, I must agree that it is certainly unfair that Japanese companies choose to build cars suitable for the American Market, while most American companies can't be bothered.
It's not as if they could make a decent small car anyhow,even if they tried, is it? (sarc)
wow you went after me and I guess if I was your teacher I'd give you a C+ as I said in a following post that I was trying to give both sides of those who say and those say they are not.
Most of the evidence I've seen shows they are manipulating their currency. If Lou Dobbs, says they are than they are as he isn't some baught and paid for news anchor. :mad:
Now let me get this straight. The Japanese have bought politicians, but those Michigan Democrats are just fine honest citizens with the best interest of all of America in mind, right? Or are you saying that -as well as making better cars - the Japanese are better at buying politicans than the Big 2.5?
As far as domestic policy which concerns good paying jobs ??? Yes, both are doing the right thing morally. They are both against NAFTA, CAFTA, and un free trade and BELIEVE american buisness has THE RIGHT to compete on a level playing field.
I suppose these are issues that only michigan democrats care about ? NOT !!!!! I can think of 12 million Lou Dobbs viewers that think this way as well. Republican's such as Duncan Hunter, Liberatarians, and of course countless democrats care about domestic policy concerning the stability of american buisness who try to keep good jobs here.
This thread, as I understand it, is for GM fans to talk to each other and magnify GM's positive accomplishments. There is another thread, "GM is on the Offensive..." which is more of a balanced discussion of pros and cons.
The press on the Lambda triplets has been some of the most positive of any automaker's major new product release of the last decade. Assertions to the contrary are somewhat puzzling. I have no doubt they will sell very well, maybe right at the #1 spot in their class after combining sales of the three models.
And Rock: unless I have it very wrong, all engines that GM refers to as "high feature" are OHC designs. I guess they will continue to do this until they chase the last OHV out of the line-up. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
you are quite the pot stirer. :P It's almost laughable how you are trying to get my goat. The fact remains I won't be happy until the playing field is level and if the Japanese, want to make it tough to play on their home turf then by golly we should do the same. As I said they need us a lot moe than we need them. They should play by our rules or suffer the consquences. If we tariffed their stuff they would crumble. America, should be looking out for america. I am tired of it being a one-way street. for god sakes we save them billions by taking care of their military for them. We do tthe same to Germany. If foreign nations want to dump their good on our market while tariffing and creating barrier's then lets pull out our wealthy military and eliminate their goods from our market and see who will bend first.
rockylee: thanks for the welcome! much appreciated.
nippononly: long time no see - hope yer doing well!
for the record: i drive a WRX, and should gas prices rise in the predicted fashion, i'm looking to buy a car with a more energy-efficient/advanced engine (non-hybrid). i REALLY want to buy American; although i use Consumer Reports because of its broad survey base, i still believe that USA cars are just as well-engineered as anyone else - it's the build quality that i question. but in the wake of the huge shakeups at the 'Big 3', i see the advent of new lines of thought, and hope that the natural cycle of things continues , and that the US of A returns to the forefront of the auto industry.
i figure, if Nissan can do a turnaround, then why not us?
there's a way out of this mess, and it shouldn't involve making sub-par cars in Mexico (see Volkswagon for that).
But that scenario doesn't apply to what is happening in the automobile market. Hondas and Toyotas tend to be more EXPENSIVE than Fords and Chevrolets, just as Mercedes and BMW models tend to more expensive than Cadillacs and Lincolns.
Americans increasingly prefer the more expensive imports.
What got me inetersted in this was I was loking into getting a job in Japan a couple of years ago and was wondering if it was possible to bring my car over or not.
Well, it just got worse and worse. You never saw a more convoluted and double-speak filled mess in your life than owning a car in Japan. We're talking about something straight out of a movie like Brazil or Dr. Strangelove.
All while they smile and claim to be not imposing tariffs. When we make an engine with a smaller displacement and presto - they change theirs .1L or something and change the laws to just OVER the new Toyota engine. If that won't work, they find other ways right down to silly things like not carrying U.S. tire sizes, only having metric wrenches and parts for sale and so on. Sure, you can get them, but it's all a pain and extra work. And it's all designed to be that way.
Compare that to a country like the U.K. They love U.S. products and sure, there's an import fee(as a surrogate for the VAT), but beyond that, if you can import it, you are more than welcome to own it. While it's not practical from a fuel economy standpoint, there are a fair number of U.S. cars in the U.K.
BTW - you think this is silly? Check out how Japan deals with Chinese products.
OHV= overhead valve, where the valves are in the head instead of down in the block somewhere and the cam uses pushrods to reach the valves
OHC= overhead cam, the cam sits on top of the valves instead of being down in the block
SOHC= single overhead cam, one for both the intake and exhaust valves in each head
DOHC= dual overhead cam, one for the intake valves and one for the exhaust valves in each head
A pushrod engine has the cam buried down in the block near the crankshaft, and the cam lobes push on metal rods that extend through the block and head up to the rocker arm, which pushes on the valves like a seesaw. All that hardware has to left a bit loose to allow for expansion and contraction, so it makes a lot of racket at higher rpms.
The cam in an OHC engine sits over the valves and opens and closes the valves more or less directly, depending on the exact design. The only hardware between the cam lobe and valve is a simple metal shim block, or a hydraulic follower mechanism of some sort (VTEC uses this to switch between cam lobes).
OHC has less reciprocating mass in the valvetrain than OHV, which means it can have higher redlines and is quieter and smoother at the same rpm than OHV. OHC engines also have enough space for 3 or 4 or 5 valves per cylinder rather than just 2 for OHV. Those extra valves (and the ability to control the intake and exhaust valves separately in DOHC) allow the engine to breathe better and build rpms more rapidly.
rockylee: Most of the evidence I've seen shows they are manipulating their currency.
Could you please share the evidence with us? And I don't mean press releases from national legislators touting their latest new legislation, which is designed to appease constituents more than anything else.
Most of the "evidence" I've seen tends to prove the exact opposite.
rockylee: Republican's such as Duncan Hunter, Liberatarians...
Libertarians are not going to support tariffs on Japanese vehicles, as they support minimal - or no - government interference in the marketplace. And they aren't going to support tariffs just because the Japanese market isn't as open as some people would like, because they would view that as Japan's problem.
It's all wishful thinking right now. If it does happen, it will be designed by Holden and presumably would get the Ecotec 4s and HF V6s for engine choices. Possible vehicles include G6, BLS, Holden Torana, a crossover or three, and maybe an Opel Omega. Perhaps the next-gen Solstice/Sky also if it's flexible enough to build a roadster on.
And for all that, people in Japan still manage to obtain and drive Camaros, Mustangs, Cadillacs, etc. In small numbers at exhorbitant cost no doubt, but they are there.
It should be pointed out the the OHC engines are also OHV. I don't know that a single OHC engine has the cam directly opening all the valves. A DOHC engine can and should. Pushrods can open more than one valve of each type, but this has not been done to any great extent. I know that GM has had at least one production engine.
As far as smoothness and quietness goes, I am not sure the OHC's are really better. Both engines can be designed better or worse. For example, GM current DOHC 4 cylinder engines are not particularly smooth or quiet. GM's northstar V8 is good.
Anyone seen a price tag for the 2008 CTS? And will the 3.6 V6 be the standard engine. One or two versions of the 3.6? The CTS with an automatic (aren't they all) and the 3.6V6 for around $30K to $32K would be pretty cool. Loren
How Japan deals with Chinese products? In 2006, China has overtaken US to become Japan's largest trading partner - So if the Japanese government is putting up barriers to Chinese imports, they are not working....
And the official Chinese communication (see the link from People's daily below) does not refer to any obstacles being faced.....
Well, obviously I was talking about the same durable goods and automotive sectors. Japan has a very liberal policy on just about anything other than rice for the other stuff. But they do protect their automotive industry.
So does every other country on the planet outside of North America. Why we don't try to protect our industries a tiny bit makes no sense at all, especially when our leaders are so good at getting people mad at them. Outsourcing everything as you keep fighting bigger and bigger wars is exactly what led the the Soviet Union's collapse. Eventually the suppliers find it in their best interest to just not play along. And your infrastructure is in a state of decay from not being utilized in decades.(ie - nothing to fall back on if, say, China was to pull the rug out from under us)
If it were me, I'd pass a bill stating that Japan open up its markets to U.S. goods in a fair manner and without all of the hidden rules and problems - or take a 50% fee on all imports. Their choice. Or better yet, they can do it or we stop funding their military - let them pay for it themselves.(we'd start to bill them for our services)
We all know what the outcome would be. They'd cave in a week if we actually grew a pair and confronted them.
Well if ya want to buy american and want some good fuel economy you have the Saturn Aura Greenline a hybrid which is nice. Why not a hybrid I ask ????
You also have the 3.6 "High Feature" V6 XR as bumpy explained was smooth do to it's DOHC. You will have the choice of a new Malibu, where you can get any trim with engine choices ranging from a 4 banger to V6 from what I read. How much do you want to spend and what type of car do you want ? Lots of stuff is out now and lottsa new stuff is on the way.
Loren, their will be two engines. The base one is the same one that's in the current CTS. The upscale CTS will have the new Direct Injection version 3.6 "High Feature" V6 pal.
The automatic only will be on the AWD version otherwise a 6-speed manual will be available for everything else from what I read. The base model is expected to be around $31-$32K from what I understand with a fully loaded version with all the bells and whistles toping out at $45,000. This of course is speculation from several auto mags I've read.
My 2009 Cadillac CTS-V is expected to be around $56,000 and if it get's the 600 hp. version of the Corvette SS Supercharged LS-7 it will be the deal of the decade as 0-60 will be under 4 seconds 3.7-3.8 range.
I don't know if that's still fast enough for me Loren ? I might have to tweak the Supercharger and add a programmer to it so I make sure I'd have enough power under my right foot. :P
Your wife needs to sneak a recode of the speed limiter to around 80 MPH, before you total some car and or yourself along with it :surprise:
The CTS seems a bit pricey to me. Will consider a used one I guess some day, or perhaps another Honda/Acura, depending how things play out with my first Honda. I did like the test runs of Aura and CTS, so those I will keep in mind. But that is a long time down the road now -- but ya never know. Could add a used Corvette. Those are one of my cars I always liked in the GM line.
Seems like the CTS standard should be the automatic, with the 6 speed manual as option, and the 3.6 V6 should be the engine. Otherwise, the true price of a CTS is steeper than one thinks from the ads. Yea, I know old, and they all do it. Well, I am not so sure having two engines is a good idea, as it lowers the prestige of the nameplate. Does the DTS have a four cylinder model. CTS is trying to compete somewhat, though not head-on with the BMWs of the World, so why not throw the best at them. Show'em the big guns!
Here ya go Rocky link get one of those. :shades: Loren
Your wife needs to sneak a recode of the speed limiter to around 80 MPH, before you total some car and or yourself along with it
LOL, your no fun Loren. It's not like I'd drive it fast all time. Only on those flat, no traffic farm and market roads we have here in Tejas Panhandle on those frisky occassions where I might want to see what 200 mph feels like. No big deal is it ? :P
General Motors First Automaker To Take Stand On Environment
As far as your Corvette's go they are only fun for 2 people and since I have 2 young children they aren't a option for me. The 09' CTS-V, makes them look like AVEO's in performance comparisons anyways. :P
Well if you checked out my other link in the GM support forum you might see my option Z...... :P that new Saab 9-3 looks SHARP !!!! :shades: I wished I could see what the 9-5 was going to be like. Grace God Loren, GM, is making way to many good cars for me to just want one !!!! :sick:
Comments
As for a CVT, I know some still use it but it is not really taking off and I doubt if GM will be putting any money into developing one.
As far as a Acura TL. Maybe you can tell me why the CTS is not a good competitor. Same price point ($33k on up). Perhaps the CTS is too large? Are you looking for a FWD instead of a RWD? Seems like the G8 with the standard V6 really competes with the base TL at a much lower price point. Add all the crap you want and it will still be competitive. If you want even more performance drop in the V8 and really kick TL's Type-S butt. Perhaps the new alpha Cadillac would do OK with you? (a ways off though)
Pontiac already uses OHC in their Solstice, G5, Vibe, G6, G8 and Torrent. What are you talking about!! The 3.6 is about as slick as it gets, especially in it's highest HP form.
Oh yea, as I said in the other forum the new Malibu kick Camry's big butt,
As I said before Edmunds found in their own survey they are out of touch with their readers. Surprised the heck out of them. Hopefully they will stop giving reviews on GM vehicles with the slanted diatribe. Then again it does help to light up their own forums!
And yes there is no doubt we are, and want to do this. Cheap goods from overseas are what everyone wants. Stop that and all hell would break out here. Sorry to say but US is no longer a real powerhouse. We are living on our children and they will be in sad shape.
Pilots are now built and available and being driven. Long lead media should be in them about now. Pilots are built with production parts that MAY not be totally approved.
The SRX's V8 gets a 3.23:1 axle with a six speed that has on overdrive (6th) of 0.67:1. I now have one, so will see how it does. So far it is averaging about 17 on regular gas (that is what the dealer put in :sick: ). I have not gone very far yet.
In the HP war it is basically a wash to the toyota buying public. The four has slightly more and the V6 has slightly less. And the Camry buying public really does not care.
And yes the 6 speed is available with the four while the Camry has only a 5 speed. Again nothing I hang my hat on with the buying public.
But the entire package is pretty sweet and you will all have to wait to see what it looks like.
This gets to the heart of the matter, I think, when it comes to the meat of the import/domestic cost disadvantage. Few truer words have been uttered in this forum.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
RE: Charges of Japanese Currency Manipulation:
1. Congratulations for finally posting sources.
2. Now you need to start reading them before you post.
They've worthless as they do not prove anything regarding Japanese currency manipulation - they've either press releases by Democrats from Michigan, or outdated, or actually work to disprove your argument.
http://stabenow.senate.gov/32807StabenowIntroducesBilltoCombatJapaneseCurrencyMa- - - - nipulation.htm
A press release from a Democrat from Michigan - think it might be political, hmmmm?
U.S. Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) today introduced legislation to stop the Japanese government from participating in the unfair trade practice of manipulating the Japanese yen. This policy provides a subsidy to exporters, resulting in an unfair competitive advantage over American manufacturers
http://thehill.com/business--lobby/big-three-automakers-press-for-action-on-japa- - nese-currency-2007-04-04.html
The U.S. Treasury doesn't believe Japan is manipulating its currency
U.S. automakers are particularly critical of the Treasury, which so far has taken the position that Japan is not manipulating its currency. In February, despite calls from the auto industry, Rangel and Dingell, the Treasury declined to press for currency manipulation to be included on the agenda of a G-7 meeting of finance ministers.
http://www.automotive.com/features/90/auto-news/27417/index.html
Detroit Automakers praise the Detroit Democrat's proposed legislation - well, THERE's proof - LOL
The Automotive Trade Policy Council, whose members include General Motors, Ford and DaimlerChrysler, praised legislation introduced today by Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
http://www.house.gov/list/press/mi05_kildee/pr_100505JPNCurrency.html -2005
A Detroit Democrat's press release from 2005 is proof? I think not.
Congressman Dale E. Kildee (D-MI) urged Treasury Secretary John Snow to stand up for American workers and address the effects of Japan’s longstanding policy of currency manipulation at the recent meeting of the G7 Finance Ministers in Washington
http://www.forexblog.org/2006/08/us_automakers_a.html
Oh wait! The Japanese haven't intervened in the currency market for 3 years!
When confronted with the fact that the Bank of Japan has not officially intervened on behalf of the Yen since 2004, the automakers respond that the government continues to threaten intervention in the event that the Yen actually appreciates. This is tantamount to currency manipulation, they argue
http://www.senate.gov/~levin/newsroom/release.cfm?id=221831
A Michigan Democrat's press release from 2004!
WASHINGTON – Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., co-chair of the Senate Auto Caucus, today urged President Bush to address concerns over Japanese currency manipulation with the Japanese Prime Minister at the upcoming G8 meeting.
http://www.transpacificradio.com/2007/02/11/currency-manipulation-protectionism-- - - - henry-paulson-and-the-bank-of-japan/ - A good one to read !!!!!
It IS a good one to read, if you read it all the way to the end, LOL
Now the US Treasury Department is saying that Japan hasn’t manipulated the currency markets since January through March 2004. On January 1, 2004, the yen was at 104.40 against the dollar. Ninety days later, on April 1st, just after the BOJ’s supposed three months of currency manipulation ended? On that day the rate was 104.40 - no move. And on the last day of 2004? 103.10 The yen gained strength in 2004. Maybe what US automakers really need is for someone to bring that manipulation back
http://banking.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Testimony&TestimonyID=13- - - - 96&HearingID=247
Testimony from Mr. Tom Carper who has a small axe to grind:
I have been working with Sen. Biden, Rep. Castle and the State of Delaware to ensure that the Chrysler plant in Newark, Delaware – which employs 2224 people – stays open.
Oh, and as part of his testimony, Mr. Carper acknowledges,:
Today’s Treasury Department report finds that “the Japanese authorities have not intervened in the foreign exchange market since March 2004 when the yen was around ¥109 per dollar.”
Really, Rockylee, this is pretty sad as evidence of currency manipulation. If I were grading a student, I'd give you a C- at best and then only because you finally posted something as support, even if you didn't read what you posted...
Oh and something from a later post of yours:
why would some members of congress want to introduce a bill without having the facts to support it. I know the japanese have baught and paid for the Boxer's and Feinsteins to squash this bill
Now let me get this straight. The Japanese have bought politicians, but those Michigan Democrats are just fine honest citizens with the best interest of all of America in mind, right? Or are you saying that -as well as making better cars - the Japanese are better at buying politicans than the Big 2.5?
It sure does make the point that you can demean something with faint praise. And some think Consumer Reports is fair...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well Mr. Lutz, I just assumed you could give me the engineering breakdown on "intellegent AWD". I would like to know if it's different from the STS's AWD system and this is a new version of it. I was under the impression the STS AWD system was a lot like Quattro, but never understood if it worked like Quattro/Smart Trak and distributed power from front wheels to rear wheels ????
As for a CVT, I know some still use it but it is not really taking off and I doubt if GM will be putting any money into developing one.
Okay, but you think GM, is working on a DSG unit ?
As far as a Acura TL. Maybe you can tell me why the CTS is not a good competitor. Same price point ($33k on up).
It is a good competitor but the TL, is more sporty. The 09' is pretty much gauranteed to get Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system. The TL, just seems so much moe fuel efficent than the CTS. Of course I don't know what CTS owners are getting with 6-speed manuals with the 3.6 either. I guess I could be over racting a bit as Direc Injection should help also. Trust me the CTS and CTS-V are ranked in my Top 2 as my next car.
Perhaps the CTS is too large?
No as the CTS and TL, according to the BMW 3 lovers are often referred to being to big to be considered a competitor. Remeber the TL, is slightly larger in size than a Accord Sedan.
Are you looking for a FWD instead of a RWD?
What I'd like to have 62' is a slick AWD sedan with a 6-speed manual or DSG. I've been told CTS will not get a manual option on the Intellegent AWD model but the TL, will on it's new SH-AWD.
Seems like the G8 with the standard V6 really competes with the base TL at a much lower price point. Add all the crap you want and it will still be competitive.
From a performance, interior perspective it competes well but it lacks the 5.1 Surround Sound, Voice Recognition System, of the current TL. I am going to reasonably assume Acura will add even more "gadgets" in the 2009' TL.
If you want even more performance drop in the V8 and really kick TL's Type-S butt.
Of course but you will have to spend in the mid $50's to do that on the 09'. I like I said believe Acura will make it's 09' TL, meet or exceed the competition in power and performance.
Perhaps the new alpha Cadillac would do OK with you? (a ways off though)
Well Mr. Lutz (62vetteefp) :P just what in the heck are you talking about ???? Alpha Cadillac :surprise: :confuse: My brain is saying BLS ???? Am I right ? That my friend is way to small for myself, wife, kids. CTS size is the bare mininum I think I cab live with. The TL, was the "right size" when we had it.
Pontiac already uses OHC in their Solstice, G5, Vibe, G6, G8 and Torrent. What are you talking about!!
What ? I was told by some people the 3.6 V6 is a push-rod like the 3800 ????? Dude the technical [non-permissible content removed] I have no clue on and I'll admit it. I'm as lost as a blonde on the technical stuff. So the 3.6 "High Feature" is a smooth OHC like those Japanese Engines ????? Well sorry that I feel just dumb now for believing other people !!!! :sick:
The 3.6 is about as slick as it gets, especially in it's highest HP form.
I've only road in one CTS, and it was the 2.8 V6 (I believe)
Oh yea, as I said in the other forum the new Malibu kick Camry's big butt
Now that is somethig I want to see. I wished GM, would re open some more Saturn dealerships or allow the multi brand-GM dealerships to sell saturns.
-Rocky
-Rocky
But what edmunds would of said about a Toyota or Honda CUV, were the common words of Toyota or Honda BUILD QUALITY, RELIABILTY, The switches are big and legible, etc.... They would push the small stuff to give the reader a perception of superiority. :mad:
-Rocky
Alpha is a rumored midsize RWD platform that would host replacements for the G6 and Euro BLS.
I was told by some people the 3.6 V6 is a push-rod like the 3800 ?????
GM V6 Primer:
2.8L- DOHC
3.2L- DOHC
3.5L- pushrod
3.6L- DOHC
3.8L- 90-degree pushrod
3.9L- pushrod
4.3L- 90-degree pushrod
I'm confused as to how 'everything written in the article' can be construed as negative. I had read:
"What is new, however, is the concept of compelling, cohesive styling from Buick. The Enclave concept vehicle that appeared at the 2006 Detroit Auto Show proved to be a surprise hit. And the production vehicle maintains all of the concept's graceful lines and voluptuous curves. Even the fake portholes and the headlights with the blue rings made it to production."
and
"And while the 275-horsepower 3.6-liter V6 has a heavy load to carry, the Enclave isn't slow."
"More important, the Enclave feels plenty quick enough."
"According to the vehicle's trip computer, our very green example averaged 16 mpg in mixed driving."
"Regardless of how many miles the Enclave will roll on a gallon of regular gas, each mile will likely pass by quietly. The Enclave glides around town as quiet and smooth as Buick would have you believe it is. The engine sends just a faint vibration through the steering column and pedals under acceleration. Otherwise, the Enclave driver is almost completely isolated from the outside world — in a mostly good way. The softly tuned suspension and the tall tire sidewalls smother all but the biggest bumps. The four-wheel disc brakes respond to the pedal smoothly and progressively. And wind noise is nearly nonexistent."
If I have cited the wrong article, I apologize. I guess it's all in how you spin the words. This whole article reads to me as an honest opinion by someone who didn't thoroughly do his homework (I like comparisons to a number of other makes and models embedded within the text).
This forum is about how GM is to succeed, right? All I'm reading is a bunch of guys getting overly sensitive and defensive (and political?!?). As far as I'm concerned, GM/FORD will be on the right track as long as they realize that the competition isn't just coming from across the street in Detroit, and that car-buying trends are not always based on trends/gas prices from 40 years ago.
We're living in a day and age wherein BOTH parents working doesn't necessarily mean making ends meet, where holding onto an average of $5000 in debt (conservative) is the status quo, and the BENEFITS of a job sometimes outweighs the actual paycheck from said job. This can mean new buying habits, and as long as the 'old boy' system of doing things stays in place, we'll continue on until Ford and GM merge to form the ONLY US car manufacturing company.
We have (predicted) gas prices approaching >$3.00/gal for regular gas this summer, and people are still manufacturing SUV's instead of more efficient wagons?!? We're STILL reading about how GM installs interiors that don't match up to class leaders?
Personally, I'm waiting till either the Ford Fusion gets a more efficient 6 cylinder or the Buick LaCrosse stops handling like a boat, then I'll be looking to trade... c'mon people! Let's get positive out there!
And my apologies for the long post.
I honestly did not know the 3.6 was a DOHC engine.
So that means the reason why my 3.4 DOHC V6 in my 95' CutlassConvertible was so smooth was because it was a OHC engine, right ?
Bumpy I ned some fatherly like education. Just what in the heck does a OHC or dual over-head cam do for a engine ? Like what I mean is why are they a lot smoother than a push-rod ?
Thanks,
Rocky
First I want to welcome you to the forum. Yes things get "heated" in here at times. It always has and probably always will be that way when talking about GM. I assume you own a Toyota, thus you haven't had to endure the pain us GM, fans have for years. You also haven't had to endure a government that hasn't leveled the playing field YET!!!
Our car company (GM) is building great cars and we still can't buy a positive review without the negative tone. As far as the Enclave article goes let's just say most of us feel it's slanted just like the Silverado vs Tundra comparo edmunds did about 3 or 4 months back. I don't recall televised or written media that wasn't slanted against GM or their products.
It's like toyota, can do no wrong even though they have by far took the lead in recalls for what the last 2 or 3 years. The media, says they are still reliable as ever.
Just ask Consumer Reports
It's kinda like Fox News, saying they are fair and balanced. Follow me !!!!
-Rocky
The inspections every other year are another problem - most people after 3-4 years have to replace the entire ENGINE as they will no longer pass smog requirements. Try to replace a GM engine... yeah, not going to happen.
Then there's the parts as he mentioned, and of course, the real hit - taxes are based upon weight and displacement, which is set to kick in at anything over 3.0L. Essentially this is a luxury surcharge that bumps the effective price on the road of most every U.S. car up several thousand dollars.
To say that they don't manipulate their car market is absurd.
Duh....
Gosh, I guess they should be like the U.S. where there are no rules about emissions, or safety equipment, or crash tests, or bumper designs, or headlights, or DOT approved parts. Yup...... ain't no stinkin' government rules here! Not even for the type of paint.
The county of Japan is small but rich. The government has attempted to keep down the number of cars on the road, and particularly large cars by taking measures to discourage people from owning cars. This is done through displacement taxes and inspection requirements. It's also part of the plot that you have to have your parking space measured and certified before you can buy a new car. The purpose is to prove that you have a place to park it and that the space is big enough. As I said, it's a small country.
So, the Japanese make their own car companies play by those rules.... big deal.
By the way, you don't have to replace the engines. You just have to have them taken apart and have the the parts measured for wear. Same for the master brake cylinder.
Maybe the American cars have to have those parts replaced, but none of the Japanese cars I had there ever had any replaced.
The inspection is where the cost comes in and not the replacement of any parts.
Of course, I must agree that it is certainly unfair that Japanese companies choose to build cars suitable for the American Market, while most American companies can't be bothered.
It's not as if they could make a decent small car anyhow,even if they tried, is it? (sarc)
wow you went after me and I guess if I was your teacher I'd give you a C+ as I said in a following post that I was trying to give both sides of those who say and those say they are not.
Most of the evidence I've seen shows they are manipulating their currency. If Lou Dobbs, says they are than they are as he isn't some baught and paid for news anchor. :mad:
Now let me get this straight. The Japanese have bought politicians, but those Michigan Democrats are just fine honest citizens with the best interest of all of America in mind, right? Or are you saying that -as well as making better cars - the Japanese are better at buying politicans than the Big 2.5?
As far as domestic policy which concerns good paying jobs ??? Yes, both are doing the right thing morally. They are both against NAFTA, CAFTA, and un free trade and BELIEVE american buisness has THE RIGHT to compete on a level playing field.
I suppose these are issues that only michigan democrats care about ? NOT !!!!! I can think of 12 million Lou Dobbs viewers that think this way as well. Republican's such as Duncan Hunter, Liberatarians, and of course countless democrats care about domestic policy concerning the stability of american buisness who try to keep good jobs here.
-Rocky
-Rocky
The press on the Lambda triplets has been some of the most positive of any automaker's major new product release of the last decade. Assertions to the contrary are somewhat puzzling. I have no doubt they will sell very well, maybe right at the #1 spot in their class after combining sales of the three models.
And Rock: unless I have it very wrong, all engines that GM refers to as "high feature" are OHC designs. I guess they will continue to do this until they chase the last OHV out of the line-up. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
you are quite the pot stirer. :P It's almost laughable how you are trying to get my goat. The fact remains I won't be happy until the playing field is level and if the Japanese, want to make it tough to play on their home turf then by golly we should do the same. As I said they need us a lot moe than we need them. They should play by our rules or suffer the consquences. If we tariffed their stuff they would crumble. America, should be looking out for america. I am tired of it being a one-way street. for god sakes we save them billions by taking care of their military for them. We do tthe same to Germany. If foreign nations want to dump their good on our market while tariffing and creating barrier's then lets pull out our wealthy military and eliminate their goods from our market and see who will bend first.
-Rocky
-Rocky
nippononly: long time no see - hope yer doing well!
for the record: i drive a WRX, and should gas prices rise in the predicted fashion, i'm looking to buy a car with a more energy-efficient/advanced engine (non-hybrid). i REALLY want to buy American; although i use Consumer Reports because of its broad survey base, i still believe that USA cars are just as well-engineered as anyone else - it's the build quality that i question. but in the wake of the huge shakeups at the 'Big 3', i see the advent of new lines of thought, and hope that the natural cycle of things continues , and that the US of A returns to the forefront of the auto industry.
i figure, if Nissan can do a turnaround, then why not us?
there's a way out of this mess, and it shouldn't involve making sub-par cars in Mexico (see Volkswagon for that).
( response ? )
:shades:
Americans increasingly prefer the more expensive imports.
Well, it just got worse and worse. You never saw a more convoluted and double-speak filled mess in your life than owning a car in Japan. We're talking about something straight out of a movie like Brazil or Dr. Strangelove.
All while they smile and claim to be not imposing tariffs. When we make an engine with a smaller displacement and presto - they change theirs .1L or something and change the laws to just OVER the new Toyota engine. If that won't work, they find other ways right down to silly things like not carrying U.S. tire sizes, only having metric wrenches and parts for sale and so on. Sure, you can get them, but it's all a pain and extra work. And it's all designed to be that way.
Compare that to a country like the U.K. They love U.S. products and sure, there's an import fee(as a surrogate for the VAT), but beyond that, if you can import it, you are more than welcome to own it. While it's not practical from a fuel economy standpoint, there are a fair number of U.S. cars in the U.K.
BTW - you think this is silly? Check out how Japan deals with Chinese products.
OHC= overhead cam, the cam sits on top of the valves instead of being down in the block
SOHC= single overhead cam, one for both the intake and exhaust valves in each head
DOHC= dual overhead cam, one for the intake valves and one for the exhaust valves in each head
A pushrod engine has the cam buried down in the block near the crankshaft, and the cam lobes push on metal rods that extend through the block and head up to the rocker arm, which pushes on the valves like a seesaw. All that hardware has to left a bit loose to allow for expansion and contraction, so it makes a lot of racket at higher rpms.
The cam in an OHC engine sits over the valves and opens and closes the valves more or less directly, depending on the exact design. The only hardware between the cam lobe and valve is a simple metal shim block, or a hydraulic follower mechanism of some sort (VTEC uses this to switch between cam lobes).
OHC has less reciprocating mass in the valvetrain than OHV, which means it can have higher redlines and is quieter and smoother at the same rpm than OHV. OHC engines also have enough space for 3 or 4 or 5 valves per cylinder rather than just 2 for OHV. Those extra valves (and the ability to control the intake and exhaust valves separately in DOHC) allow the engine to breathe better and build rpms more rapidly.
Could you please share the evidence with us? And I don't mean press releases from national legislators touting their latest new legislation, which is designed to appease constituents more than anything else.
Most of the "evidence" I've seen tends to prove the exact opposite.
rockylee: Republican's such as Duncan Hunter, Liberatarians...
Libertarians are not going to support tariffs on Japanese vehicles, as they support minimal - or no - government interference in the marketplace. And they aren't going to support tariffs just because the Japanese market isn't as open as some people would like, because they would view that as Japan's problem.
As far as smoothness and quietness goes, I am not sure the OHC's are really better. Both engines can be designed better or worse. For example, GM current DOHC 4 cylinder engines are not particularly smooth or quiet. GM's northstar V8 is good.
Loren
In 2006, China has overtaken US to become Japan's largest trading partner - So if the Japanese government is putting up barriers to Chinese imports, they are not working....
And the official Chinese communication (see the link from People's daily below) does not refer to any obstacles being faced.....
http://english.people.com.cn/200704/27/eng20070427_370379.html
So does every other country on the planet outside of North America. Why we don't try to protect our industries a tiny bit makes no sense at all, especially when our leaders are so good at getting people mad at them. Outsourcing everything as you keep fighting bigger and bigger wars is exactly what led the the Soviet Union's collapse. Eventually the suppliers find it in their best interest to just not play along. And your infrastructure is in a state of decay from not being utilized in decades.(ie - nothing to fall back on if, say, China was to pull the rug out from under us)
If it were me, I'd pass a bill stating that Japan open up its markets to U.S. goods in a fair manner and without all of the hidden rules and problems - or take a 50% fee on all imports. Their choice. Or better yet, they can do it or we stop funding their military - let them pay for it themselves.(we'd start to bill them for our services)
We all know what the outcome would be. They'd cave in a week if we actually grew a pair and confronted them.
You know about the "Chicken Tax" right? link
Ie: "...We need FAIR trade not FREE trade..."
Well if ya want to buy american and want some good fuel economy you have the Saturn Aura Greenline a hybrid which is nice. Why not a hybrid I ask ????
You also have the 3.6 "High Feature" V6 XR as bumpy explained was smooth do to it's DOHC. You will have the choice of a new Malibu, where you can get any trim with engine choices ranging from a 4 banger to V6 from what I read. How much do you want to spend and what type of car do you want ? Lots of stuff is out now and lottsa new stuff is on the way.
-Rocky
Well I do like Acura's VTEC and how greasy smooth that engine is. I suppose I will have to take one of those new CTS's out for a spin.
-Rocky
-Rocky
The automatic only will be on the AWD version otherwise a 6-speed manual will be available for everything else from what I read. The base model is expected to be around $31-$32K from what I understand with a fully loaded version with all the bells and whistles toping out at $45,000. This of course is speculation from several auto mags I've read.
My 2009 Cadillac CTS-V is expected to be around $56,000 and if it get's the 600 hp. version of the Corvette SS Supercharged LS-7 it will be the deal of the decade as 0-60 will be under 4 seconds 3.7-3.8 range.
I don't know if that's still fast enough for me Loren ? I might have to tweak the Supercharger and add a programmer to it so I make sure I'd have enough power under my right foot. :P
-Rocky
Ie: "...We need FAIR trade not FREE trade..."
You did sum it up. Eliminating the barriers would be at least fair.
-Rocky
The CTS seems a bit pricey to me. Will consider a used one I guess some day, or perhaps another Honda/Acura, depending how things play out with my first Honda. I did like the test runs of Aura and CTS, so those I will keep in mind. But that is a long time down the road now -- but ya never know. Could add a used Corvette. Those are one of my cars I always liked in the GM line.
Seems like the CTS standard should be the automatic, with the 6 speed manual as option, and the 3.6 V6 should be the engine. Otherwise, the true price of a CTS is steeper than one thinks from the ads. Yea, I know old, and they all do it.
Well, I am not so sure having two engines is a good idea, as it lowers the prestige of the nameplate. Does the DTS have a four cylinder model.
Here ya go Rocky link get one of those. :shades:
Loren
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/09/official-renderings-of-the-2008-saab-9-3/
http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/05/2008_saab_93_he.html OMG !!!!
I might of just found my new car ????? :surprise:
I'll take a XWD w/ 4WS BLACK TURBO Saab 9-3 Convertible thank-you !!!!! :surprise: :shades:
What this means to me:
Welcome to the rebirth of SAAB, who really needs a Velite ??????? :P
Now can I get a HELL YEAH !!!!!
-Rocky
LOL, your no fun Loren. It's not like I'd drive it fast all time. Only on those flat, no traffic farm and market roads we have here in Tejas Panhandle on those frisky occassions where I might want to see what 200 mph feels like. No big deal is it ? :P
General Motors First Automaker To Take Stand On Environment
http://automotivenews.blogsome.com/2007/05/09/general-motors-first-automaker-to-- - - take-stand-on-environment/
As far as your Corvette's go they are only fun for 2 people and since I have 2 young children they aren't a option for me. The 09' CTS-V, makes them look like AVEO's in performance comparisons anyways. :P
Well if you checked out my other link in the GM support forum you might see my option Z...... :P that new Saab 9-3 looks SHARP !!!! :shades: I wished I could see what
the 9-5 was going to be like. Grace God Loren, GM, is making way to many good cars for me to just want one !!!! :sick:
-Rocky