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They're another source of usually good and useful info, but it never hurts to seek out several opinions. They'd earn more cred with me if they'd offer more info free and open more of their forums up to non-subscribers, but I guess they have to make a living.
Everyone saw this, right?
Edmunds.com Announces Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicle Awards for 2007
See the Straightline blurb about GM's response to the survey and the Edmunds.com 2007 Consumers' Most Wanted discussion too.
However, Chevrolet has moved down size since the RWD Caprice/Impala were dropped. Pontiac is currently down sized too, with the end of the Bonneville. The G8 will return Pontiac to a larger RWD sedan...
Perhaps the point is that the car market is always changing, and GM has lost touch with the market place. They may be on the right track with the new products that are coming out by the end of this decade.
Broke eh?
Check out the Comments: Consumer Reports/JD Power Rankings discussion for more on the CR topic.
Lutz is talking on his FastLane blog - maybe he needs to enlist actual owners to tell their story on the tube (or get someone from GM to respond to owner's woes when they post online)?
So the midlevel choice will be the 3.5L OHV with a 4-speed auto. This, on a next-gen model that has yet to arrive. Couldn't they take a hint from the fact that the Aura XR has sold much better than expected, while XE sales have lagged?
Luckily, the 4-cylinder model should be very competitive in terms of fuel economy and performance relative to other entries in this segment. My hope is that Aura might eventually follow and have the 4-cylinder as its base engine too.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also I am not so sure it is an issue with the engine. When a new vehicle is introduced the manufacturer knows that the initial first year buyers tend to spend a bit more money and buy loaded versions. Therefore for the first year you build a higher penetration of upper models well equipped. Once the "bloom" is off you build lower models with fewer options. Not only do the manufacturers know this but so do the dealers. Taht is what they order because that is what sells and gives more profit. In fact the first two years of a new model gives 80%* of the profit over the lifecycle of the model.
*made up number but makes the point.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM Daewoo sold 1.5 million vehicles in 2006, up from the 1.2 million it sold a year earlier. The numbers include Korean sales of 128,332 vehicles, which rose 19.2 percent from a year earlier but grew largely because of demand for the complete vehicle kits it exports for assembly to plants in places such as China, Thailand, India, Colombia and Venezuela.
GM CEO Rick Wagoner says the $321-million acquisition of a majority stake of GM Daewoo is helping the company expand quickly in some of the world's fastest growing markets, including China, India and Russia.
"Our strategy is really pretty clear in these regions," Wagoner said Friday in New York in a presentation to GM's bankers. GM is looking for growth, without spending a lot, so it can make healthy profits on the small vehicles. "This is where, for us, the acquisition at GM Daewoo was really a breakthrough," Wagoner said.
Since the Volt's successful January debut as a concept car at the Detroit auto show, GM has taken major steps to develop a production version of the plug-in hybrid car.
"We are doing the production engineering on the Chevrolet Volt," says Larry Burns, GM's vice president for R&D. "It is a formal product program within our company, just like the Chevrolet Malibu is a product program."
Last week, Burns listed the steps in the program:
· GM has allocated funds for development.
· Engineering work is under way.
The development team has selected the next-generation Delta platform for the vehicle.
GM has decided to develop two versions, one with a gasoline engine and the other with a fuel cell.
Burns declined to estimate the project's cost. But GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz predicted this year that the design, engineering and tooling would cost at least $500 million.
GM wants to build the Volt in the United States, says a source close to the project. The assembly plant in Lordstown, Ohio, which currently builds the Chevrolet Cobalt, is said to be the leading contender.
The contrasting approaches to hybrid technology represented by the Tahoe and the Prius illustrate, quite dramatically, the different world views of GM and Toyota, which as of the first quarter of this year surpassed GM as the world's No. 1 seller of cars.
Toyota's "Hybrid Synergy Drive" system is designed primarily to reduce the petroleum consumption of relatively light vehicles operating in the city. That's what you'd expect from a company whose roots are in the small-car-dominated Asian market. Toyota's efforts to use its hybrid technology as a power booster for large cars and SUVs have produced so-so results, both in terms of fuel-economy improvement and sales.
GM, on the other hand, is a creature of the American heartland, where lots of people – including lots of GM employees – want vehicles that can comfortably haul up to seven people, their gear and a trailer, running a steady 70 miles per hour on the four-hour Friday-night run to the lakeside cottage. This isn't just a Michigan thing: Manhattanites with second homes upstate, or Angelenos who like a weekend in Vegas now and then, raise your hands.
The centerpiece of GM's big-SUV-hybrid system is what GM engineers call a "two-mode" hybrid system. Boiling down some fairly complicated tech talk, the system works like this: Two electric motors housed inside the transmission, a 300-volt battery pack and some sophisticated software combine to supplement the energy from a 6.0-liter V-8 motor. From a standing start, the hybrid SUVs can accelerate to about 20 miles per hour on electricity alone, if you depress the accelerator gently.
During a brief drive around a GM test track, all this power management goes on almost undetectably. The transition from eight to four cylinders and back is seamless, as is the transition from strong electric boost to none. That can make you forget you are in a hybrid vehicle, which is one reason GM took a page from Toyota's marketing notebook and equipped the Tahoe/Yukon with hybrid badges and special displays to remind drivers (and neighbors) of the value received for the extra money spent on the hybrid technology.
The Saturn Sky is winning 45 percent of customers from other companies, the Saturn Aura, 38 percent, and the Saturn Outlook, 71 percent, she said.
Those are rates industry analysts say GM can be proud of.
"Saturn is conquering one of GM's most formidable challenges," Edmunds.com analyst Michelle Krebs opined. "It's getting on the shopping lists of potential buyers and converting lookers into buyers like never before."
Sales are being taken from largely Asian brands, especially Japan's Big Three – Honda, Nissan and Toyota – Krebs wrote on Edmunds.com's Inside Line.
-Rocky
The Edmunds test of an SS Commodore.
Not to the best of my knowledge pal. I also want to thank-you for the links. The Holden Commodore and Monaro are both nice cars. Wished they had a better front end (grill) on em'. Will have to see one in person before I totally write it off. I just like in the pics I've seen the holden grill better. The G8 grill in the GMI pics was better also. I still think both Holden and Blaupunkt? the audio company you guys use over their needs to upgrade their stereo equipment because y'all have wimpy audio systems in those holdens. I did see I think on the Statesman a Bose audio system. This is just one gripe I have with the G8 and a better abd more powerful audio system should be used for us american consumers.
-Rocky
The wife and I went out for some Chinese, and we drove through the local GM, lot. She said she just doesn't like the Silverado's grill. I was like "whatever" it looks nice. She howeversaid she did like the GMC grill quite a bit thus meaning if I ever baught a truck I'd be okay getting a Denali, according to her. :shades:
-Rocky
I have been a subscriber to Autoweek for many, many, many years as well as other magazines such as C&D and so forth. I was a subscriber when it was known as Competiton Press and Autoweek (I was a toddler back then
IMO, Autoweek has consistently been the the fairest and most responsible of the lot. Road and Track is another mainly "auto enthusiast" magazine with very high standards and is similarly fair. One particular human side of Autoweek reporting that I especially respect is how they report crashes in auto races. Their policy has been to never show photos of the crashes.
I also appreciate their apparent editorial policy of keeping the magazine on an adult/mature level. (Road and Track is the same.) This is evident in the wording of the stories, reports and the letters that are published. Some car magzines, on the other hand and IMO, publish letters and write copy that might be appealing strictly to teen-agers.
Another positive note on Autoweek is that they involve their readers. In many issues of the magazine they solicit input from readers who have bought models of vehicles recently to voice their opinions and experiences. Then, they incorporate readers' feedback into their own driving experiences and test results of the vehicle into a written report.
Autoweek is a great publication and is fair to all, including GM.
Perhaps the point is that the car market is always changing, and GM has lost touch with the market place.
Seems that their crystal ball is always clouded and/or cracked. What with gas prices in the $3.30-$3.50 range in my area (think it is higher in So Cal), the last thing the marketplace needs is new larger RWD sedans and V8s. We keep hearing that demand for oil is going up around the world (especially China, India) and barrel prices will be bid up. Add this to possibility that world is at Peak Oil and one has to wonder if GM seriously understands world oil situation. What are they thinking. Shouldn't a major US company be "leading" the way to reduce our need for oil for transportation.
-Rocky
That's what people say about Consumer Reports also.
-Rocky
GM is leading the way on the domestic side.
They have lots of small cars for buyers to choose from. They have more models than anyone that get over 30 mpg. They also will have high MPG hybrids for buyers of trucks to choose from. Also have millions of flexfuel vehicles to choose from out there. They also have hybrid mid size cars and SUVs soon to be available. Sure they did not get out there with the first hybrid but they are in force now.
In two years they will have more hybrids/flexfuel vehicles on the road and the most hybrid/flexfuel models available of any manufacturer. Of course by then gas will probably be back to $2/gallon.
They will also along with BMW and Honda have one of the first hydrogen cars on the market.
-Rocky
Too bad those buyers aren't Americans. We get to choose from the Aveo and... the Aveo.
Not sure when that will really happen in marketable numbers. Lot easier to put ethonal pumps out there.
But for small cars there is the Cobalt and the new Saturn which should be high volumes. Also the small "midsize" Epsilons. Just depends on your definition of small!!
One could observe that the lifestyle described here is a product of high union wage scales and low oil prices, both of which are rapidly receding into dim memory.
One could observe that the lifestyle described here is a product of high union wage scales and low oil prices, both of which are rapidly receding into dim memory.
Lets hope not.
-Rocky
62vette: sorry, the Aura sales mix info was strictly anecdotal - I have discovered that the sales manager of a local Saturn dealership is a friend of a friend. We were chatting about it, and he told me the XRs come in and move right out, whereas the XEs just sit and sit. The main buyer for the XE, according to him, is the traditional Buick buyer who now finds that at new car time he/she can't afford a new Buick. Apparently this person's opinion on the XR is very often "it's too sporty" (!!).
As a result, he doesn't order many XEs for stock, but lots of XRs.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Wait a year and the lower cost XE's will start to sell if they are not already. One dealership does not make a trend. Where are you located?
Ahh, California. kinda skewed the data. Be interesting to see the rest of the countries data. I would bet the XE's sell very well in the heartland.
-Rocky
Am I wrong but isn't the XE cheaper by a bunch and more power than the Greenline? It is a V6.
Saturn dealers need more base models on the lot. If you look at the XE and the XR Auras, I think you will find that they are not really strip models, except for the tires and hubcaps on the XE model. And once again, considering what comes on the XR as standard, it closes the gap so much already, why not just throw in the current discounting, simplify things by dropping the XE, and give it the upscale image and great price points at the same time?
I did not find a single XR base model on the lot when I was looking at the Auras. True, I think they found three in California they could get their hands on quickly, but really now, why not just have these on the lot. The make I ended up buying had a package which made sense, and there were some on the lot. You can get base, then two or more grades higher and the pricing is so simple. It is not a question of looking over a dozen cars to find this or that combo deal for a dozen different prices. Something GM may consider. If the dealer stocked six of each packages, and then three with some odd combo deal, everyone would be happy. Of the GM product I have driven so far, the Aura and the CTS seem to have the right stuff. The G6 coupe I drove was a last year model with the electric steering, and the 3.5 V6. It was so-so.
Will the Malibu get a Greenline version?
Loren
Yes from what I read. I also agree with your perspective as I do like how Honda/Acura does buisness as they keep it simple. Wanna know what's more frusterating Loren, is looking for a GM, used car and trying to figure out what options it may or may not have on it. I was looking at used 2005 STS's on autotrader "nationwide" search and man trying to figure out which trim or options that were on it without calling was nearly impossible. That my friend is frusterating and I think dealers could do a better job listing each package the car they are selling has. :sick:
-Rocky
That makes sense. The supply of leftover $20,000 Regals and Centuries is pretty well dried up by now. The Malibu is too plain, the G6 is too flashy, and the Lacrosse is too expensive, so off to Saturn the GM buyer goes. I'd bet that Aura's conquest sales are heavily weighted toward the XR.
Since the Volt's successful January debut as a concept car at the Detroit auto show, GM has taken major steps to develop a production version of the plug-in hybrid car.
****
Welcome to the 2008 double-hit.
- Realistic MPG testing which eviscerates SUVs and V8s, btw. Expect V8 city MPG to drop by almost 40-50%! 8mpg city for a Surburban is going to be rough.
- SUVs are now included in the passenger car CAFE ratings. No longer are they in the commercial vehicle category.(large vans still are, though)
These to together mean GM needs a hybrid or electric car or three right now - because they will get reamed otherwise.
Of course, it's good for us customers - we'll finally start getting some of the technology they have been so reticent to develop.
Wow. :surprise: If that's true, the domestics are doomed. :sick: :sick: :sick:
-Rocky
I'm not sure of the reasons why these two Senators would flip on CAFE standards, other than Anchorage and Boise are both moderately sized cities in bowls that suffer lots of LA type foul air when inversions set in.
With gas hitting $3 again ($3.15 right now in Boise for regular), economics may play as big or a bigger role in GM and the other manufacturers changing their fleet than CAFE regs.
Last time I looked, Toyota's fleetwide fuel economy average weighted for sales was 27.1, less than half a point off the standard for cars, before you even factor in that it gets some credit for some of the sales being trucks. GM and Ford were between 21 and 22 for the same average.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
steve, I just find it wrong to punish just the automobile industry which politician are doing when they only accont for such a small percentage of pollution. For God Sakes, we have oil fired gas plants making electricity in this country. We have coal plants that give off more pollution then thousands of automobiles. We have private jets dumping pollution as well. It's just not fair. :mad: If we are going to make a standard then by damn it make everyone comply. I will predict that buisness that pollutes will just go south or over the alantic or pacific so they don't have to comply with our standards thus buh bye many jobs. :mad:
This all over a un proven theory. :sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Cars and trucks are a business that spread out across the world and impact every corner of the globe. They are visible everywhere we go. That is part of the reason they have been such a high-profile target of this first wave of campaigns to reduce oil consumption. But they are by no means the only industry that is being shaken up. Don't think that for a minute.
Hey speaking of "buh bye jobs", I noticed in the news piece for the next-gen Saturn Vue that it will now be assembled in Mexico, in a town with a two-word name that I have already forgotten. I guess the days of the Spring Hill plant are well and truly gone, eh?
Oh, and BTW, GM sells WELL over 1 million trucks and SUVs annually. In fact, more than 2 million (including fleet), by my calculations...
;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That is just not fair as if Ford, Chrysler and some say GM, are borderline bankruptcy. Just what the heck is Ford, going to do huh ????? They depend on their beloved F-150 and do I dare say their non-running diesel Navistar F-250, 350, 450, etc :surprise:
Hey speaking of "buh bye jobs", I noticed in the news piece for the next-gen Saturn Vue that it will now be assembled in Mexico, in a town with a two-word name that I have already forgotten. I guess the days of the Spring Hill plant are well and truly gone, eh?
:mad:
Oh, and BTW, GM sells WELL over 1 million trucks and SUVs annually. In fact, more than 2 million (including fleet), by my calculations...
Yeah, I didn't have the exact numbers as I knew it was either or
-Rocky
I was going to bring this up as well. You can skew statistics to make a point that is correct but leads you to the wrong conclusion: "GM has more 30 mpg cars than any other manufacturer". The insinuation is that GM sells an efficient fleet of vehicles, which is certainly not the case. If I had ten divisions and did a lot of rebadging I could have a lot of 30mpg models, too.
The fact remains: Honda has the highest fleet average, based upon sales. Toyota's is much better than GMs. If GM sold 80% Aveos and 20% everything else, they would have the best fleet average. But the mix of vehicles GM sells is skewed heavily toward vehicles which get poor mileage. And that is the result of the product mix -- GM is much less competitive in their smaller, fuel efficient offerings than in SUVs and trucks. It does appear that they're beginning to take this more seriously, but it won't happen quickly.