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:shades:
Discontinued.
Disclaimer: The following is NOT intended to bash GM, just an opinion.
GM really needs to go easy with the SS badge, over-using it will just diminish its reputation. IMO, only RWD cars (that's sedans, coupes or convertibles but NOT SUVs, CUVs, trucks and vans) with excellent handling deserve to carry the SS badge. GM can use other monikers for the "souped up" version but an SS has to be able to called as a SPORTS car (hint: not SPORTY).
I can't wait to see the RWD Impala SS, it should be a looker and hopefully also a "handler".
Just called GMAC (General Motors Car insurance) and since I have OnStar and drive low miles (less than 10K per year) I am eligible for a ~25% discount on my insurance. Have not got the final numbers yet but it should save me about $200/year.
They said the actual cutoff is 15K per year. Will let you know what they actually come up with.
The competitors are running rings around it. :P
The Vue is an SUV with European flair, like all of Saturn. Part of the offensive. Sort of like the Saab 9-7x, also with European flair. :shades:
Did you modify your Vette engine for use with unlead gas?
Loren
GMAC was much cheaper than State Farm / AAA for me. With the discount I should be paying $600/yr.
Went with the OEM type high compression pistons. Just run very high octane gas which is available here. I think it would run fine on premium but no need to try.
L
“What is REALLY UNCOOL is worrying about what others think of you just because of what car you like. If you like Buicks and Caddies, then buy one and to heck what everybody else thinks!”
For once I agree with yah.
“If they don't like what you drive, maybe they should make the payments on your next Camcord lemming-mobile! C'mon! You're an adult and not in high school anymore! Heck if you're neighbors are such yuppie idiots, I'd love to move there and come thundering down the street in a 1958 Buick Limited four-door hardtop or a 1957 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser. “
Actually people love those old GM cars of the 50ies, even yuppies.. They are unsafe, fuel hungry, impractical, lacking modern gadgets but boy are they pretty. I don’t know when, but somehow GM and the domestics lost touch with what the market wanted and have not been the same since.
It is really neat to visit the museums, like the National Car Museum in Reno, to see some really old examples. You get quite the feel for how a Buick was a doctors car. They seemed well made and a bit the richer than say the more average car. Ah, they all looked like a work of hand built art back in the earliest years of automotive development. Just the brass alone is something to behold. GM's first FWD, I guess it was, the Toronado of '68 was on display at the Reno museum when I was there. I had the pleasure of a demo ride in one when I was a boy, and it was something else. Look at those lines! Later in its life, things went terribly wrong, at least looks wise. Recall the rectangle era, as pretty as a Volvo.
L
Have you ever driven a Solstice or Sky? There is much more to these then just looks, especialy in GXP/Red Line trim. The fact is, Solstice is outselling the Miata since day 1 and thats impressive considering the Miata is on its third generation.
2.4L 177 hp, 21/31 mpg
2.4L 190 hp, 21/31 mpg
3.5L 268 hp, 19/29 mpg
So despite increase in size and weight, engines remain tops on power and fuel economy.
It will be interesting to see how the Malibu performs head-to-head as these are the newest model. Both might leave the Camry/Altima/Fusion in the dust.
today, you'd find a chunky electric motor connected up to the motor and
drive train. Yet if you disassemble a Yukon, you won't see any electric
motor. That's because GM was able to sneak a powerful electric generator
into the big case that holds the transmission gears. This has many
benefits. It saves space, since the transmission case is no bigger, even
with the extra electric bits. The design should also make it easier for GM
to adapt hybrid drive trains into other cars. And there may energy
efficiency advantages in this approach (compared with the Toyota, Honda,
Ford design) because it cuts down on the number and complexity of
mechanical linkages necessary to join electric motor to gas engine. (Any
mechanical engineers out there want to weigh in?). As an added plus, it
frees up precious underbody space for batteries, regenerative braking
systems, and the other goodies that make hybrids go.
On a cruise north up 10th Avenue, to Manhattan's northern reaches, though
about as un-nimble as any big SUV in city traffic, the Yukon was quiet and
smoother than its gas-only cousin. This, explained Mark Cieslak, vehicle
chief engineer of GM's full size truck hybrids who's been driving an early
production hybrid Yukon for months, is because the battery pack and
electric motor have enough kick to take this 5,000-lb vehicle up to city
road speeds without the 6 liter V-8 gas engine kicking in. Once at highway
speeds, driving south along the Hudson River, the engine saves gas by
deactivates cylinders not needed to maintain a 65-mph clip.
Back to the big view. In debuting the Yukon, GM representatives also walked
a group of reporters through their hybrid strategy plan for years to come.
Earlier, I blogged about my skepticism that GM could beat Toyota to a
plug-in electric hybrid. But step by step they outlined makes me think they
could do it. The hybrid GMC Yukon, and its doppleganger the hybrid Chevy
Tahoe, will hit sales lots late this year. Soon there after, the 2-mode
hybrid will appear in 2008 models, including a hybrid Cadillac Escalade –
what better way to assuage SUV guilt? – followed by 2-mode hybrid
treatments of the Chevy Silerado/ GMC Sierra pickup, and a similar upgrade
to the Saturn Vue Green Line all in 2008. Sure enough, at the end of this
road map, in 2009/2010, GM shows two plug-in hybrids: the Saturn Vue Green
Line and the Chevrolet Volt.
Oddly, GM won't be deploying this 2-mode system into any sedans, just SUVs
and trucks. Given GM's success (at least till $3 gas) with trucks and SUVs,
this makes sense: Americans don't necessarily want sedans, they're justing
more of them now since they get better mileage. If you can deliver a small
SUV with car like mileage, who wouldn't opt for the bigger vehicle? This
omission may be because the new all-in-one transmission-plus-electric-motor
is too bulky to fit into smaller car forms.
more of them now since they get better mileage. If you can deliver a small SUV with car like mileage, who wouldn't opt for the bigger vehicle?
lmao! That has got to be the biggest crock of a statement I have ever read. What a load of Horse... Yes folks, every sedan owner, every minivan owner, every crossover owner only drives those vehicles because they cannot justify their dreamboat, a five ton Suburban. They just putt putt along, only wishing they could be the captain of their dreamliner, the USS Tahoe rather than their small piddly little car. Imagine, a dream world where everybody drove monster SUV's and lumbering land barges. I love it...
That has got to be THEE BIGGEST STEAMING PILE of propoganda BS I have ever read in my entire life.
Welcome back to 1981 GM, welcome back. :shades:
The vehicle will probably cost about $24k and was honed at the Ring. Sorry, but like it or not the vehicle is a legit performance entry for this price range. its weight and power and specs are similar to the Mazdaspeed3.
Dont shoot the messenger.
"You do know the Miata is still selling, on its merits, no doubt. "
Miata is being outsold by the GM cars. Dont know why that is, but its not getting traction in the marketplace. Its probably the dull styling, no doubt.
just a thought, can onstar track if you've ever gone 90mph in your car?
That much? I don't think Chevy can support that price point on that vehicle.
And speaking of the HHR, when does it move to the Daewoo platform?
The Equinox SPort is NOT an SS because it hasnt been tuned in Germany like the TB SS, Cobalt SS/SC and HHR SS. Gm already go the memo and is way ahead of you.
The V6 mileage is impressive compared to the GM V6 cars, but not the Camry. 2pmg isnt a huge deal to me so I'm not sure how many people would skip a Malibu for 2mpg of V6 mileage. The Accord has more power but I cant see it being faster than the Malibu due to 5 speed auto and increased weight. The Altima CVT V6 has more power than Aura but isnt faster due to Aura's 6 speed auto.
The term I was looking for is not font. Font refers to the shape of the letters. What I don't like is how the numbers are created. Basically, I don't like the fact that the numbers are colored as opposed to Honda's which are black and are like a calculator (called LCD display?).
With regard to the gauges, I don't like the fact that they are completely surrounded by the wood trim. The dash kind of reminds me of a Jaguar X-Type.
Overall though the Lucerne is a pretty good car. In particular I like the CXS but I am not willing to pay that much for one. For 35K, I think I would rather have a TL. GM is clearly making strides forward but they must continue to improve and in order to do so they must make sure they introduce new models every five years, like Honda.
I think that the Solstice/Sky is outselling the Miata due to a newness factor. There's been pent up demand from domestic loyalists for a roadster that has been unavailable. You'll be the first to say that sales don't always mean a car is better so don't jump to that conclusion now.
The fact that the Malibu wont be drastically outclassed by this all new Accord is proof that GM is getting closer to where it needs to be. In the past a GM product would be several steps behind a year after introduction.
more of them now since they get better mileage. If you can deliver a small SUV with car like mileage, who wouldn't opt for the bigger vehicle?
That has got to be THEE BIGGEST STEAMING PILE of propoganda BS I have ever read in my entire life.
Welcome back to 1981 GM, welcome back.
Sorry, that is from somebody in the media, not GM.
And do you really not believe it? Sales of SUVS were HUGE and getting higher every year before gas prices went up, even with the average price of a SUV $15,000 more than the average price of a sedan. Even today SUV sales are still selling decently. And with the new crossovers there is another SUV type vehicle that is selling like mad. Sorry but there is a big market for sedans but alot of buyers would go for the SUV if the vehicle price and gas price was not such a big issue. It only makes sense. Why settle for a compromised sedan when you can get a vehicle that carries 7 people and all the stuff that a person carries. I know I shove my Envoy full of stuff almost every day and a sedan just would not do it for me.
Solstic sky were new in same year as Miata. Nice try though.
I never said sales make the Solstice/sky better, but they are outselling the car that you and Miata are claiming is world's better. Just making a point. what you people dont get is that those cars arent bought for luggage capacity. The Miata is good at the stuff no one cares about but it looks lame. The GM cars have the handling and the styling. I seriously doubt most kappa owners are lifelong domestic owners, that is funny though. Same as all import people you assume that anyone who doesnt buy foreign is some blue collar buy american patroit who is unaware of the superior foreign competition. Thats a little silly and if you read some of the consumer comments on recent domestic cars here on Edmunds you will find owners who owned foreign makes and owners who surveyed foreighn competitin before buying.
BTW, your statement about BMWs did nothing to dispute what I said about GMPD vehicles being tuned at the Ring for handling. I would assume that means that even you have to acknowledge that a vehicle that can lap the Ring in a decent time is a ood handler.
HHR SS had a lap time 8 secs slower than the NSX recorded a decade ago- yeah its not worthy of the SS badge. What was I thinking?
GM introduced new cars every 5-6 years on average. Honda sticks to 5 years MOST times, but not all the time. The Pilot is going into its 6th year as we speak. Honda has a small lineup so its much easier to keep vehicles fresh every 5 years.
The Lucerne is a much bigger car than TL, they compete in price only.
Actually most in the industry, ioncluding GM, now average about 5 yeats between changes.
No. The Miata has been out for about 15 years and was redesigned a couple of years ago. The Solstice was a new model that is filling a void for a domestic roadster. The Miata is an all arouind better car with slightly less power and less muscular looks. We'll have to see how the sales of both cars level off. That HP advantage may have staying power.
Where did I say that all kappa owners are domestic buyers? STOP MAKING THINGS UP!! Maybe there were at least a few buyers that said I'd buy a domestic roadster if anyone would make one?
You did say that Caddies were Beemer's equal in everything except image. If they could do that without German tuning, why are you making such a big deal out of shipping a car to Germany now?
"HHR SS had a lap time 8 secs slower than the NSX recorded a decade ago"
A decade is a long time ago and the NSX was never the fastest car out there anyway.
Not really...
HHR SS: FWD, Van.
TB SS: SUV.
Cobalt FWD.
None of them are RWD "cars" which doesn't make them a serious performance machine that the SS moniker stands for. Chevy should just call them HHR Sport, TB Sport and Cobalt Sport. Whatever they are, they are definitely not "Super" Sport.
None of them could outhandle a current SS car, not even the Impala.
Today's Honda Accord can probably out handle any sports car back in the 60s so what's your point? Set the bar low and take the easy way out is that the mentality GM should have? :confuse:
Why do I want the big, slow, boxy looking thing which I'll be forced to tap the brake every single time through the corner when I can have my small, nimble, fast and good looking sports sedan or coupe?
I just don't get it...
I can understand a soccer mom with more than 2 kids might want a full size SUV as the default family transportation but at the same time a minivan should fulfill that task equally well. Also, the majority of those big SUVs during rush hours have only one passenger in them - the driver, which tell me most of the time they are being used as a "personal transportation". Why would anyone need a 7-seater as a personal transportation is far beyond me.
Okay, so every now and then a family will need a 7-seater for the family trip. But unless the trip happens very frequently, Enterprise, Hertz and Avis are just one click away from your personal computer.
I also noticed that they still have a long way to go with regards to rustproofing in these areas with harsher winters and heavier salt use. A few standout examples I noticed were a 1999+ Silverado with a rusted-out rear bumper, a '91-96 Park Ave that was rusting along the lower edges, a '96-99 Taurus that was rusting in the rocker panel area, and a '99+ Grand Am that was pretty rusty.
How did the imports fare, in comparison? Well, I can honestly say that I did not notice one single Japanese import from the 1990's that had any rust on it. But honestly, it seems like Japanese imports from that long ago were actually a very rare sight. I saw an occasional 1998-02 Accord, but that was about it. So either most of the Japanese imports from the 90's have rusted away or otherwise been retired, or maybe they just didn't make much headway in this area until around 2000?
It kinda made me think of an episode of Mama's Family where they had scouts from Jeopardy in the neighborhood looking for contestants. When they finally signed Mama on, the two scouts just looked at each other, and one said "Thank GOD we can finally get out of here. I've never seen so many American made cars in my life!" :P
HHR set a new record for its class at the Ring. The previous record holder was a souped up Opel of some kind. I dont care how old the NSX is, the car was a great performer and was world class. Stop making excuses- OK, I know that's impossible.
"You did say that Caddies were Beemer's equal in everything except image. If they could do that without German tuning, why are you making such a big deal out of shipping a car to Germany now? "
Please read up on GM vehicles, many of your questions will be answered and you will understand what I am tlaking about. Caddies have been tuned in Germany since the 2003 CTS. It is nothing new and that is how CAddy has honed its handling and performance.
GM has been sending other models to Germany to achieve similar results and its working.
I have never heard anyone make the excuse that a new model (solstice) has an advantage over a long established and loved competitor. That is a stretch, even for you. The Miata had all the advantage going into the 2006 model year.
Chevy doesnt have RWD SS cars because GM doesnt have any RWD platforms to use TODAY. That will change in the future. In the meantime we all know that vehicles like the MS3, GTI, etc. are FWD and very sporty and most younger people are into FWD performance.
"Today's Honda Accord can probably out handle any sports car back in the 60s so what's your point? Set the bar low and take the easy way out is that the mentality GM should have?"
Never said set the bar low. Just said that today's FWD cars are far better handlers than the porky RWD body on frame cars of old. I dont care what letter were on those old Chevies, they were not great handling cars by today's standards.
Time to step into the 21st century, the muscle car era is over. To say that only RWD cars can be associated with high performance is laughable.
"None of them are RWD "cars" which doesn't make them a serious performance machine that the SS moniker stands for. Chevy should just call them HHR Sport, TB Sport and Cobalt Sport. Whatever they are, they are definitely not "Super" Sport. "
incorrect, look at the stats. Any TB that does 0-60 in 5.5 secs and has 395hp along with 20" rims and peformance brakes is an SS. Any cobalt that does 0-60 in 5.9 secs and stops in 160ft from 70 is an SS like it our not. I already told you the 263hp Equinox is a "sport" model because it doesnt have the full performance treatment.
I can understand a soccer mom with more than 2 kids might want a full size SUV as the default family transportation but at the same time a minivan should fulfill that task equally well.
Exactly, welcome to the world that exists in the US. I know the typical US family is going away but it is still strong here. Yes, I do have two kids and yes I do carry their friends. In fact at least once a week I have 6 people in my vehicle so a rental car would be not the way to go. Please, let people buy what they want. Let people live the life they want. So, yes, only a 7 passenger vehicle will fit my needs. Sure I could get a sedan and somehow work around the kids but I would rather not do that.
Actually most of those people you see driving alone probably do have a family and later that day need to pick up their kids and the neighbors. I know that at my school most everyone does have a SUV or minivan because they need them.
And very few prople in this country are out in "my small, nimble, fast and good looking sports sedan or coupe?". I happen to also have a vette but it sits most all summer because I do have the two kids and I cannot fit the three of us for a ride.
All I am saying is that there is a need for a SUV type vehicle. In one year I will be trading in my Envoy for an Enclave. BUT, I have heard it may not fit a 4x8 sheet in it so I may not be geting it since that is a requirement for me.
And yes I did have a minivan and ot would fit my needs, but why would I get an ugly box when I can drive a good looking large SUV or CUV? I guess I am past the boy racer stage. But that was a long time ago and now I have the responsibility of a family.
Hey lets talk about GM and not try and be a Hitler and force our ideals on others.
Yes, the Solstice / Sky are outselling (well i guess they still are) as a style over substance car. This is likely GMs greatest hope is in styling. They did not match Mazda, as an example, by the product. That said, considering how long the Miata has been out, it is selling very well. They still hold the record in class for all time sales.
L
To say that only RWD cars can be associated with high performance is laughable.
It depends on your definition of "high performance". To me the bare minimum of high performance is something like a M3. Now show me which FWD cars can match that in both power and handling. You seem like to bring out MS3 as an example of high performance cars but that's only a above average sports car at best. By the way, high performance is not exclusive to RWD, AWD setup can make a decent performance car as well.
Yeah, that trend is on the glide path to obscurity. Sales of those big goonmobiles will settle in to the people who actually need and can afford to buy and feed them. Everyone else will jump on the next bandwagon.
And, on a completely unrelated topic, which GMT800s had the "Chevrolet" name actually stamped into the tailgate instead of just using vinyl letters?
Might want to check the year on that 99 Grand Am. GM started phasing in two sided galvanized metal in tee mid 90's and Grand am had it by '96. So rust on the vehicle is almost impossible. Now the old 85 grand am was not and rust can be extensive. FYI, the japanese went to two sided metal after GM was pretty much done.
The Silverado and Park is possible since they had not made the changeover yet.
And yes there were very few imports sold in Ohio in hte 90's.
You mean like compating a brand new car to a 10 year old one?
I'm not making excuses about the Solstice just stating an obvious point that even Lutz would admit, it filled a void for a domestic roadster. It looks more muscular than a Miata and has more HP.
Overall, I and your vaunted automotive press don't think it's a better car. We'll see how the advantages of each car wear a couple of years down the road. Would you say that the Solstice did not benefit from an initial pop of some people wanting to be the first one to have one?
Because so many put so much credence into the nurenburg route GM is putting a very similar course in at the Milford Proving Ground.
Okay, first of all I wasn't trying to force my ideal on others. Second, I did say I understand there are people who REALLY need a 7-seater but it's pointless when there is no such need. Last but not least, the reason for my post is to point out that not everyone will want a big vehicle when he/she can choose it over a smaller one.
But you are right, let's get back to talk about GM and stop calling each other a [non-permissible content removed].
What is the next bandwagon? I assume those who need a large vehicle will be buying the large CUV's? Again, I know many feel that SUV's are not needed but the reason they became popular is because the government legislated out the large cars/station wagons. Minivans also became popular for the same reason. No, large family vehicles will be here as long as families need them.
No wonder you hate all the current SS models.