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General Motors discussions

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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Um, no they don't.
    Japanese workers no longer have the lifetime guarantees that they used to have.


    I haven't seen anything to prove otherwise. :confuse:

    European workers get more time off,and maybe a little higher wage(of course,they build better cars too).

    Well them building better cars doesn't show up in J.D. scores. :P The bottom line is a car is as only as good as it's engineered. The company not the workers control those aspects. ;)

    However, their healthcare is provided by the state,not the automaker.
    Hourly wage isn't the issue here,it is the cost of healthcare.


    That's why this country will see universal healthcare by 2009' ;)

    -Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I am pretty sure the Tahoe Hybrid has a combined FE of 21.5 mpg.

    (city/highway/combined)

    Camry I4: 21/30/24
    Camry V6: 19/28/23
    Camry Hybrid: 33/34/34
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Tahoe Hybrid will be capable of getting 30+ MPG.

    The Escalade Hybrid test mule, tested in the fall of 2006 was pulling 31 mpg highway. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    GM's World Car Seeks To Conquer America

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=122780?tid=edm- unds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

    This is the car iluv, should of waited for. ;)

    -Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    No Rocky, it won't.

    Tahoe and Yukon fuel rating

    However, I know I am wasting the band width here since you do have a tendency to argue with facts.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Like I said I hope they have money overseas to pay their overseas employees and make tooling investments. I am looking for the illegal caches in swiss banks.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    A 4 cylinder Camry hauling a boat, maybe

    Just comparing 2008 epa numbers.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Guess I was not clear in the city part. Of course 21.5 vs. 23 is not much of a difference expecially when you can get the utility of the SUV
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    If all you do is city driving, you're an idiot for wanting a Yukon in the first place.

    I will sign up as your idiot if you want. I drive about 90% city and could not get by w/o an SUV. Well then again I could but I sure would not be hauling the 4x8 sheets home. And there goes the 2 kitchen cabinets I picked up yesterday. (well actually 5 but it tolok 3 trips) Oh yea the 10 bags of mulch last week. Oh yea the kids and there two friends I took to the museum Tuesday.

    Please, not everyone shares your lifestyle. This country still has families in it and not all are single/no kids. Sure you can get around with a sedan but takes compromises.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well one of us has some fuzzy math as Dubya, would say. The Tahoe, has a 2007 EPA rating I believe is 22 mpg HWY. A 10% improvement would put the car at 24.2 mpg. A 50% improvement means it would theoretically get 11 mpg improvement meaning 22+11=33 mpg HWY. ;)

    Does that clear things up for you now ? :blush:

    -Rocky
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    '62,

    Not really doubting that the GMT900 hybrids could be capable of hitting the mpg marks, but I just wonder how many consumers will actually hit the claims.

    If it comes out they indeed can & do hits those marks, GM will have an improved foothold; I just wish these type of technology / fuel gains could be made on their cars instead of SUVs. Seems the concentration is still on the behemoths.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Nothing illegal about it...... ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    There is a lot of SUV's in American driveways meaning we have a lot of idiots in america. :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I drive about 90% city and could not get by w/o an SUV.

    Yes you could. The plywood, cabinets, and mulch could have been delivered in one trip, and the kids could take the bus to the museum. You drive a land barge because you like the extravagance.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    OMG.....bumpy, that statement is ridiculous pal. I guarantee you 62vetteefp, is getting a bunch more people per gallon miles than you are. That's one thing many people forget when they ridicule SUV owners.

    Drive on 62' ;)

    -Rocky
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    bumpy: Yes you could. The plywood, cabinets, and mulch could have been delivered in one trip, and the kids could take the bus to the museum. You drive a land barge because you like the extravagance.

    Unless you were actually there, and saw the loads that were put in the vehicle, you don't know whether this could have been done in one trip...you think you know, which is a big difference.

    Generally, I've found that minding my own business is a much more enjoyable approach to life, especially when it comes to vehicular choices. ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >I've found that minding my own business is a much more enjoyable approach to life, especially when it comes to vehicular choices.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You guys want to get back to talking about GM and stop with the personal comments? I know y'all are forum friends and all and would pick up the coffee tab for each other in person, but the name-calling banter doesn't encourage others to join in, even with smileys plastered everywhere.

    thanks
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    5.3L V8 Tahoe: 17 mpg combined / 14 mpg city / 20 mpg Hwy
    Hybrid Tahoe: 21.5 mpg combined / 21 mpg city / 22 mpg Hwy

    (21.5 - 17) / 17 = 26.5% (combined)
    (21 - 14) / 14 = 50.0% (city)
    (22 - 20) / 20 = 10% (Hwy)

    The 50% improvement only works for city.

    I am not knocking on the hybrid Tahoe, as matter of fact I think it's a great achievement. I am just trying to set the record straight.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Not really doubting that the GMT900 hybrids could be capable of hitting the mpg marks, but I just wonder how many consumers will actually hit the claims.

    Very true, but the '08 epa ratings have been "improved" and will be closer to actuals by the real public. To be honest if I could get 20 average on one of these Tahoes that would be so great. Of course I would need to get a suburban so I wonder when the two mode will get there. In actuality I would rather have one of the Lamdas and hope they will get the two mode some day. I do not need a big truck I just need the people and stuff hauling capability that 25% of the buying public buys them for.

    Even today trucks sell almost 50% of the market and that is GMs strength. Seems like the first place they should invest in hybrids.

    Of course in two years they plan on leap frogging sedans with the Volt series of vehicles.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yea Rocky, the two mode will get 21/22 which combined will be somewhere aroung 21.5.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So what you are saying is the Escalade hybrid test mule I saw must be a myth...... :confuse:

    I wished Steve, could pull that article up from the archives. It was from last year around this time. ;)

    -Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    There were a lot of media out there doing calculations on comments that GM Engineers/Lutz was saying. If they said 50% better the media person may have done the calc on the combined even though the GM person meant City.

    Also these are 2008 numbers which are lower than the 2007 numbers.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The article I read 62' was 30.8 mpg HIGHWAY and it was caught testing. The article was posted on insideline last fall and it was a 2-Mode Hybrid Escalade test mule. It wasn't geting estimated figures as it had test gear hooked up to it.

    -Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    OK, what I think you saw was an article on some kind of spy shot that showed as instataneous or short run MPG. I can get 26 MPG out of my trailblazer on the highway if I reset it at speed and just drive w/o slowing down or accelerating. NO doubt the hybrids can do the same but the way epa is calculated is different than this.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I looked for the article and can't find it because I don't remember the title ????? I'm pulling up recent articles and spy photo's when searching. :cry:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Thank-you bumpy....good job !!!.....I can't believe you found it
    (Your 1st link) :) How did ya do that ? :D I do believe their was more to the article or one connected to it that followed later......

    -Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Did a search in Google for "escalade hybrid test".
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Okay, cool...... I was looking up "Cadillac Escalade Hybrid Test Mule" on Yahoo.

    -Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    That article is 1.5 years old. I guess one thing to learn from this is not to trust anything completely until it becomes reality.

    Also, the 30mpg figure could based on the 2007 standard. the 21/22 is on the 2008 standard.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Perhaps you are correct. Regardless, it's a bad to the bone Machine......... :shades:

    -Rocky
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    you know you will lose all that fabulous mpg with 26" dubs on the slade
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I wouldn't want or need any bigger than the factory 22's.... ;)

    -Rocky
  • writerwriter Member Posts: 121
    I do not know if that was a serious reply or not, so I will answer it:

    The first link seems to be to a "concept car" they took around to the auto shows. At least that is what the title of the Website says. I think I can take that at face value, unless you tell me otherwise.

    The second raises the interesting question of "what exactly is a model year?" That article seems to have been published in 2004, so I do not see any indicator when they started the test. As to whether Toyota USA ever called it a "2002" model, or that was just Motor Trend's name, I do not know. However, there is no doubt that you could buy a Matrix in 2002, just like you could buy a 2003 Cavalier in 2002. Like I said, I think I saw HHR's early enough that I might have called them 2005.5 cars. On the other hand, in the "used car" reference I have, I do not see any such thing as a 2002 Matrix. That includes the US Consumers Reports publication.

    I do not normally rely on Consumers Reports for much, but in this case, I think they got it right. . . .

    Bumpy: 2 HHRs and no Matrix? Good! Where is that?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    The Matrix, like the present-generation Corolla, was introduced as a 2003 model in early calendar 2002. This is perfectly legal, and is common practice today. As another example, the renamed 2008 Ford Taurus came out in May 2007.

    I don't remember exactly when the Chevy HHR came out, but it appears 2006 is the first model year. This makes sense in that the Cobalt came out as a 2005 model around Dec. 2004 as I recall. (The HHR is basically a Cobalt station wagon.)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Codenamed GMX353, this second generation LaCrosse will be riding on the new (global) front-wheel-drive Epsilon II platform. It will be the first car in the United States to use this architecture. Production is expected to start at the Fairfax facility in February of 2009, reaching dealerships shortly afterwards as a 2010 model. Annual production numbers in the 65-75K range are expected.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    A spy picture of the upcoming LaCrosse:

    I don't like rubber band tires. Imagine replacemen cost. Imagine the harsh ride on all cars using them. Give me rubber with some air in it.

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Current LaCrosse Super and Impalas have 18's and while I have not driven one the press has not complained about harshness, at least form what I can recall. Besides these tire/wheel combo is probably only available on the high sporty model. Base will probably be 16's or most likely 17's. And I have driven a Lacrosse with 17's and it has less harshness than an Accord. The G6 coupe has 18's so and that is the same suspension but Buick will tune less harsh.

    Funny on the site this pic came from they are all complaining how unattractive the vehicle is and most are serious. How the heck can you tell anything from this photo??? I mean I can pick out the Velite grill (Enclave style) and it has 4 doors and there is a styling feature along the bottom of the doors. MAYBE it has a flat angles rear window/trunk lid but that could easily be padding under the cover.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Using the new, downward-adjusted EPA numbers, I think a 2007-2008 Camry V-6 comes in at 19 mpg city, while the 4-cyl is 21 city. If GM can get a hybrid Tahoe/Yukon to get 21 city, I'd say that's very impressive. If these things are normally only getting 14-15mpg around town, that's going to save a lot of fuel.

    I've been thinking all along that the automakers should concentrate on fuel economy at the low end, as that's where there's the most fat to trim. For instance, if you can boost the mpg of a vehicle from 15 mpg to 21 mpg, over the course of 100,000 miles, you're saving about 1900 gallons of fuel. However, take some little economy car that gets 40 mpg, and find a way to boost it to 100 mpg, and that's only going to save you 1500 gallons over the same amount of miles. Of course, this is using city-only driving.

    Still, I imagine it's a lot more feasible to boost the economy of a vehicle from 15 mpg to 21 than it is to boost one from 40 to 100.

    I guess you can argue that the 15-21 mpg vehicle is still using more fuel than the 40-100 mpg vehicle, and in fact it is. However, people are going to buy these things no matter how bad they guzzle, unless fuel prices get so ridiculous that they can no longer afford them. So if people are going to keep buying them, you might as well do what you can to make them more economical.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yeah, it's hard to really tell anything by that spy shot. If anything, that 2010 LaCrosse looks like a Mitsu Galant in drag! So I'm going to reserve judgement until I see the actual product. It does look like it has a high beltline though, almost too high. Still, it may loko better in person.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I have been told it is a beautiful vehicle along the expressive lines of the Enclave (not the same styling per se but expressive). So if you think the Enclave is overdone then you may not like the LaCRosse.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    It does look like it has a high beltline though, almost too high.

    The LaCrosse will be on EPS II and the Aura is now on Eps I wiht the EPS I larger. In comparing the above photo to the aura they have about the same side greenhouse height.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >How the heck can you tell anything from this photo???

    That's why I posted it. The overall shape is hard to decode. It looks hunchbacked with the positioning of the black pads and covers. A little like the Honda RL. But who can tell?

    The wheels are a fad I realize. But I want tires.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I think the Enclave,is a beautiful automobile so I probably will like the new LaCrosse. :) 62' any more rumor's floating around about my Buick Velite/Wildcat ? :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Bumpy: 2 HHRs and no Matrix? Good! Where is that?

    Virginia. I saw two of each yesterday. It just depends on whether the people who own HHRs and Matrixes happen to cross my path on any given day.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I think it's a really good looking rig. I'm not in the market for an SUV/crossover, so I'd probably never buy one, but I remember when I first saw one at the auto show, my first thought was Wow, GM really CAN build a high-quality looking vehicle if they really want to!

    I haven't seen too many on the roads yet, but it's really not a high-volume vehicle anyway, I'm guessing.

    FWIW, I like the Buick Lucerne too. And I liked the old Park Avenue. I was less enamored with the LeSabre. Reliable enough, but I just didn't like the styling as much as the Park. If I needed a fairly new used car though, and found a nice LeSabre at a reasonable price, I wouldn't be ashamed to have it in my driveway.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    General Motors Corp. would have the ability to buy out as many as 24,000 UAW workers and replace them with lower-paid new hires thanks to a move by the union to expand the definition of nonproduction job classifications under a tentative contract with the automaker, according to management and union officials briefed on the pact.

    Further details on the four-year United Auto Workers contract began to emerge yesterday before UAW President Ron Gettelfinger was to meet today with plant-level union officials to explain the contract, covering about 73,000 UAW-GM employees. Neither GM nor the UAW has made public details of the contract, except to say it will include the creation of Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, or VEBA.

    Another important detail is that GM will backstop the VEBA, a union-run trust fund, at between $1.5 billion and $2 billion, in case health-care inflation exceeds GM or UAW projections. GM will fund over a few years its estimated $51 billion retiree health-care liability at about $35.3 billion, these people said. GM managed to trim its obligation by $15 billion two years ago, meaning it would have had a $66 billion obligation.

    Besides the VEBA, Wall Street analysts and investors have pointed to the second-tier wage package as the second-most-important gain GM got from this contract. Most projections assumed GM and Ford Motor Co. would be able to get perhaps 10 percent of their work force to a second-tier wage, but it appears the figure will be much higher.

    GM won't only be able to hire at a much lower compensation package janitors, landscape workers and material handlers, they will also be allowed to define some entry-level production work and skilled-trade positions as a "noncore position," whereby they get paid about half or less of the $70-to-$75 an hour wage-and-benefit package traditionally given UAW members at Detroit's automakers.

    Those workers would have the opportunity to later transfer to the higher-paying production jobs. They will get 401(k) plans instead of pensions, the norm for previous UAW hires, and the 401(k) will carry with them if they move to new jobs.

    Because GM has about 15,000 to 20,000 members eligible for retirement, the Detroit automaker may be able to offer buyout packages and quickly take advantage of the second-tier agreement. GM will eventually be able to outsource all janitorial jobs.
This discussion has been closed.