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From the moment he returned from testing an early example of the 2008 Cadillac CTS at the Nürburgring's Nordschleife racetrack in Germany, our Dan Edmunds couldn't stop talking about his experience. "This thing is fun," he said. "The CTS lives up to everything you expect from a car developed at the Nürburgring." He was so enthusiastic, we wondered if he had spent too much time conducting field research into the Vorläufiges Deutsches Biergesetz (provisional German beer law) to properly judge the new CTS's attributes.
The CTS's new interior treatment has a visual warmth, and interiors from BMW and Mercedes seem cold and austere in comparison, while a Lexus seems antiseptic. The Cadillac's all-new front seats are reasonably comfortable, but some of us begged for more thigh support.
Standard for the World
This is the best Cadillac in 40 years. Sure, the direct-injection V6 is only adequate, but it's a great start. Even with the firmest FE-3 suspension package, the CTS proves GM knows how to walk the line between a compliant ride and ultimate handling.
The exterior styling may only be an evolution of the original CTS, but it's far more successful. It has a bolder stance and chic presence the previous car never did, even in CTS-V form. Meanwhile, the interior and mind-blowing infotainment system remind us of the time when Cadillac was called "The Standard of the World."
There's a flip side to the affirmation. The curse is that now that we've seen and experienced the exceptional 2008 Cadillac CTS, there can be no more excuses for mediocre vehicles from GM.
OK, General Motors, you've proved it once. Now the biggest challenge will be to do it again and again. That's how reputations are made.
It looks like the "Gold Standard" days of being a UAW-GM has came to a close. :sick:
-Rocky
Don't get me wrong, I like GM a lot but their intermittant brillance is aggrivating. My family may drive Nissans, but that's because GM doesn't have my back in the midsize sedan dept. After seeing/experiencing the CTS with my own eyes/hands I think I have every right to demand a legit full range Flagship Luxury brand to rival Mercedes-Benz/BMW. Likewise, a legit Chevy Corolla and Camry. The Malibu seems okay, but I seriously doubt it will merit the astonishment the CTS has garnered for Cadillac and the Enclave for Buick. Same goes for the Astra('cause I won't even bother with the Cobalt): it will be a tremendous improvement over the Ion, but I'm almost 19 (target demographic, anyone?) and I have NO desire to have one.
Come on GM, I really admire the headway you have going with some of the recent releases, but we can't make excuses any longer. I have a feeling the next 5 years will be awesome for this company, and I would pay to work in Product Planning there just to see what's really in the pipeline.
EDIT: My rant sounds really harsh, but I truely believe things are changing for good. The UAW concessions, for one, will go a long way to more investment in the cars themselves.
"they will also be allowed to define" That says it all. GM and the other big 2 got themselves into this mess over last 3-4 decades by "allowing" workers unreasonable power in decisions on how to run the company. In contrast, think that Honda and Toyota encourage employee input and voice on improving processes, innovation, etc., but ultimately management makes the business and personnel decisions.
Surprised to learn that jobs such as janitors and landscape workers are handled by GM employees. These are contracted out by many companies to cut costs.
A guy I used to know like 2-3 years ago when he was shopping for a new car he told me a Park Ave was stickered at 32K. I was like 32K(for a Buick!)I could understand A caddy stickered at 32K but a Buick it was a little of a shock. I understand the Enclave is stickered in the 30K or more price range though but the Enclave looks to be a good vehicle from what I have seen of it on the outside where was the last gen Park Ave there was no demand for the model really in terms of sales.
Their rest of the line-up does not suck I mean their Chevy and GMC branded SUVS are top of the line but its just that GM doesn't have their small car and mid-size car programs up to snuff yet. GM is hoping that the Saturn Astra and 08 Chevy Malibu will make customers buy a small car or mid-size sedan.
GM still sold over 6 million cars each year from 1984-1986 in the US and they still had a 35% market share either in 1989 but yes GM did lose alot customers during the 80's because Gm I think had a 48% share of the market in 1979.
"The 90's things improved slightly but Toyota, gained a sizable lead in R&D and it's going to take time to earn back those customers they lost."
I wouldn;t say Toyota singlehandedly outmatched Gm in the 90's. I mean Ford did well saleswise in the 90's and many people thougt that Ford would steal the Number 1 sales spot I think from GM in the US going into the 2000's. Chrysler also did exceptionally well saleswise in the mid to late 90's with products like the Ram, The Cirrus, Sebring, Concorde, Durango, Cherokee. Honda also like Chrysler had big sales increases in the mid to late 90's Year over Year.
So, I was commenting on whether the future will hold products worthy of following the CTS. Will crucial models like the Malibu and Astra garner the same press as the CTS? No doubt they will be better than what they replace, but the CTS really is top notch. It's like they pulled every stop and it shows. Hopefully, I'll be able to afford the coupe when I graduate.
During the 70's the oil problems gave the imports (Japanese) a big foot in the door. What owners of the imports discovered is that quality was good, along with good fuel economy. It has taken a very long time for GM's excessive market share to dissipate, but even Chrysler's quality is now quite good, so GM does not have any real leverage to hold an above average market share. From my point of view, an equal market share is about 15% for the bigger manufacturers. Certainly the largest and best manufacturer may be able to take more than that, but it will be hard to hold onto it.
Seriously, how can anyone do this to a company they work for and want to suceed???? :mad:
I after looking over the so-called "business secrets" already knew about all of em'. I get what you are saying "62" but the secrets aren't really secrets.
-Rocky
Proof?? It was in the contract that Phelan was given by the guy. I think though that GM is really kicking themselves for allowing it into the hands of the UAW w/o some kind of "promise" they do not share it.
Anyway there is a lot of stuff that does make sense but did you really know the vette and XLR are new for 2012?
One thing I noticed are the Zetas in the Lansing plant. Wanta bet those are some kind of Cadillacs?? Maybe the BLS and the DTS/STS replacements?
And since we see the Astra being built here, there is another "import" GM will be building here. In fact it looks like GM will be building all its US sold vehicles in NA? So lets fill in the blanks. ie the plants in Canada/Mexico.
The La Crosse replacement is an EPS II (2009, Fairfax) and Oshawa will be building Zetas starting in 2009(Impala/G8/???).
Oshawa 1/2-Zeta Camaro/G8/Impala/Monte Carlo (notice no Impala in UAW release)
Oshawa 3 - GMT 900 Pick up trucks
Mexico? - Trucks? What else could they need from Mexico? Seems to plenty of Epsilon plants here. Maybe a plant to build Alpha/Gamma/Theta small vehicles?
Future GM Products
With the exception of the possible CTS wagon, all were well known for some time...
More like brain-f@rt to me :sick:
-rockylee
I agree with you about the "promise" part. As far as who leaked it sure we can assume it was a UAW, worker. Management, get's copy's of the new contract also.
-Rocky
-Rocky
Well let's hope the BLS is RWD and is larger than the 1 series but is also maybe slightly smaller than the 3 series. Basically in betweeen ?
-Rocky
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071001/AUTO01/710010345/1148- /rss25
-Rocky
The basic point though is that Cadillac's lineup will find their own market position. Cadillac will have to price them so they are profitable, which means that too high a price will reduce sales below the profitable point, and too low a price means that sales would have to be much higher than is possible to generate a profit. With a smaller sedan, Cadillac can move the price on the CTS up some, after the STS moves off the sigma platform. The DTS/STS models will also have to move up market.
You could get a Cadillac wagon years ago, but it was built by custom coachbuilders such as Hess & Eisenhardt and Superior - the same manufacturers of hearses and ambulances.
It is essentially a SAAB 9-3 w/ different skin.
So far, GM hasn't committed to selling the BLS here.
DTS and STS will have only 1 successor.
(A) GM will begin building a product internally known as "Delta MPV 7," at its Deroit-Hamtramck plant. This seven-passenger vehicle is believed to be a version of the next-generation Opel Zafira compact minivan. The Zafira is "one of GM's leading European models," says the Detroit Free Press. "Saturn is almost certain to get a version, and Chevrolet could, too."
(B) A subcompact "Gamma" 4-door notchback will go into production beginning in 2010. The Tribune Chronicle writes that Joe Langley, senior market analyst for CSM Worldwide in Northville, Michigan, believes that GM will "add Saturn to the Gamma line." The Saturn Gamma (likely co-developed with Opel as the next-generation Corsa) would compete with the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit. The so-called B-cars are a "big market, a growing market," according the Langley, largely due to rising fuel costs. However, he told the newspaper that total Gamma production would only reach 100,000 to 150,000 vehicle each year, which would not be enough to sustain Lordstown alone. "But when you add the Alpha, then you start opening a lot of opportunity," he added.
(C) According to documents, the aforementioned RWD "Alpha" architecture will be also built in Lordstown, Ohio beginning in 2011. Alpha-based vehicles will be upscale (but affordable) RWD models, designed to compete with the BMW 3-Series. To date, GM has not yet publically shown an Alpha-based concept or prototype. The Tribune Chronicle reports "Langley said GM might add a Chevrolet or Saturn – even an entry-level Cadillac model – to the Alpha lineup."
My take:
(A) About time! I've always believed that the Zafira would sell well in the US. It would compete against the Kia Rondo and Mazda 5.
(B) Also a wise move .. a small car would nicely complement Saturn's lineup and take some sales away from the Fit. If Chevrolet gets a version (replacing the Aveo), it would dilute the uniqueness for Saturn, but I suppose that GM can't help itself.
(C) What? Saturn with a 3-series competitor? that would be amazing. I'll believe it when I see it.
Yeah, but then you have to ask yourself, is that REALLY what you want Cadillac to be?
I really don't think Caddy needs a car below the CTS.
I DO think Caddy needs a real flagship car.
An S Class or LS460 competitor.
Regarding the Minivans:
GM's reputation did not do well from around the mid-1990's to around the last couple of years. One of the biggest problems was the minivans. It is possible that its reputation might just get some kind of boost from those very same minivans that did so much damage in the first place.
I think that aside from any recalls the three worst problems in the minivans were:
1. The V-6 "lower intake manifold gasket/DexCool" problem.
2. The "sulfur deposit/fuel sensor" problem.
3. The "transmission reliability" problem.
Of the three, the "fuel sensor" problem has been unclear. I never heard that there was ever an upgrade part, and I still occasionally use some fuel injector cleaner, just to be safe, but the fuel companies that had given the problems seem to all be including detergents in the fuel now, which seems to be taking care of that problems.
The V-6 gasket/DexCool problem seems to have been taken care of in 2003, by making available a corrected gasket, new torque specs and bolts.
Finally, there has been an upgrade for the transmission available since around May 2006. I do not know how effective it will be but I will give it the benefit of the doubt for now, and consider the transmission as "better".
So hopefully, all the major technical problems have been sufficiently corrected. If this is true, then there might be hope of a faster recovery of GM's reputation than has been forecast so far. The ace-in-the-hole is the taxi industry.
Since the first Plymouth/Dodge front wheel drive minivans rolled out, there have been some attempts to use these as commercial vehicles in the light truck market and the taxi market. However, the fact that I have not seen a big move to using them until recently indicates that early on, they probably did not perform very well.
In the last few years things have changed. I have seen fairly large fleets of Dodge Caravans in particular, in the truck market. The cable and telephone companies around Toronto have been using them very heavily lately. Other smaller companies (plumbers etc.) have also been using all the brands. I do not think that this market has been completely convinced that this is the way to go, but clearly the acceptance of these vehicles has passed significant threshold.
The GM minivans have also been showing up in these markets, and particularly in the taxi market. This is a very big deal. First, the big cab companies have their ears to the ground and know all about the problem areas in these vehicles. And they also have all the information about what corrections have been made. While I expect that they are still looking at the situation as "experimental" to a degree, I think that generally they believe that the problems have been sufficiently addressed to make these vehicles worth using.
Moreover, the Taxi industry looks at "rebuilds" as a normal course of business. I expect that most cabs will have at least a couple of engine rebuilds and maybe a transmission rebuild within a typical "lifetime". So all the upgrades and fixes available will be done and their effectiveness proven. So if the upgrades work well, and there are no other fundamental problems with the vehicles, the cabbies will know it.
What makes this really huge though, is that from an advertising standpoint, you cannot do better than getting cabbies on your side. If these people are happy with the GM minivans, then you can count on them to say so, to just about everybody who wants to know, and maybe some who do not.
I have a couple of other thoughts about this general topic, but I have had enough for now.
This brings up the question of who would buy a smaller Buick.
Source: 2008 Pontiac G8 to start at $27,595
General Motors has shrunk its labor cost gap with Toyota down to $800 per
vehicle.
Just two years ago, that gap ran as high as $4,000 per vehicle, says Dave
Cole, head of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich. Here's
how GM is closing the gap:
The 2-year-old turnaround plan -- with its plant shutdowns, early
retirements and buyouts of 35,000 workers -- saved about $2,000 per vehicle
produced.
Two-tier wages, flexible production schedules and other work rule reforms
will be negotiated plant by plant. Those changes could save as much as $400
per vehicle.
The UAW's agreement to run a health care fund for its retirees -- part of
the contract announced last week -- will save about $800 per vehicle.
The union's 73,000 GM employees have yet to vote on the proposed four-year
contract, and the plant-by-plant negotiations have moved slowly. But Cole
thinks the agreement will make GM competitive again.
"GM is now reasonably close to Toyota," Cole says. "As you start to get
cost parity, you're looking at a Toyota-GM face-off."
And that job thing...
The marketing of it is the questions, kind of like the BLS. Yes, there could have been a slight case for it to come here, thinking fuel price wise, but was there a "real" market for it. Also, would people really go for a "baby" Caddy, having nightmares of Cimarron. Cause as you know, people remember bad GM experiences from decades up to almost a century ago, "That blankity-blank Durant, Alfred Sloan, my curved-dash Olds...":P
One main problem for the SRX, besides price, and maybe for this CTS Avant/Shooting Brake/whatever they call it, is do / will people want a Cadillac wagon? To me the SRX isn't a crossover, just a wagon-type vehicle. And I really don't see much of a marketing follow-up to it. Plus what works for others may not work for Caddy.
The industry is on track for a weaker sales month in September, reflecting the drag from a weaker housing market and economic uncertainty.
September also marked a U.S. sales decline for Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc., down 4.4 percent from a year earlier. The Volkswagen group, which covers the VW, Audi and Bentley brands, also posted a drop in U.S. sales for the month, down 4.5 percent from a year ago.
Market leader General Motors saw its U.S. sales rise 0.3 percent in September. GM cited a strong start for the redesigned 2008 Cadillac CTS, and strong sales of the Saturn Outlook/GMC Acadia/Buick Enclave crossovers.
“When we get the combination of new product and retail truck sales, that’s a one-two punch,” said Paul Ballew, GM’s executive director of global market and industry analysis.
The launch of the redesigned Accord sedan helped propel U.S. sales at American Honda Motor Co., which rose 9.4 percent in September compared with a year earlier.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071002/REG/71002007/-1
They'll combine it with some other GM brand and start marketing a Saaturn....
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I must say GM, has the two most awesome ELLPS's on the market with this new Saab, and of course the new CTS. WOW !!! :shades:
-Rocky
this year when the VE Commodore-based Pontiac G8 program begins – involving
50,000 units annually – and the company will require expanded output to fit
in its VE Ute for export.
Unnamed GM sources have been quoted as saying the VE Ute could be announced
either at the Los Angeles auto show in December or the North American
International Auto Show next January.
Two left-hand-drive-version VE Utes are being evaluated in Detroit, and
Lutz say one thing is sure – if one does come to Detroit, it won’t be
rebadged as a Chevrolet.
“Chevrolet has way too much stuff in its showroom, and it would get lost in
there,” he says.
$27,595 when it arrives in dealerships early next year. Prices for the
V-8-powered G8 GT will start at $29,995, GM says.
The G8 will have a base 256-hp, 3.6-liter variable valve-timed V-6 engine
and five-speed automatic transmission. It will have driver shift control
and sport mode availability. Standard features will include StabiliTrak
electronic stability control, six airbags and OnStar.
The G8 GT will have a 6.0-liter V-8 mated to a six-speed automatic
transmission. Other standard equipment will include limited slip
differential and a premium 230-watt Blaupunkt 11-speaker sound system,
according to a memo Pontiac sent to dealers this morning.
In the memo, Jim Bunnell, Buick-Pontiac-GMC general manager, calls the GT
version “the most powerful vehicle available for under $30,000.”
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=122805#0
This IMHO, is Michelle's best article written to date.
It's a must read.
I forwarded it to local 730 a UAW-GM plant here in Grand Rapids, Mi. (Wyoming, Mi. technically) I asked the 730 local webmaster to then forward it to the national UAW, site so Michelle Krebs, get's the recognition she deserves for a very well written article.
-Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122853
What this means to me: It won't be Knight Rider, without David Hasselhoff
-Rocky