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Comments
i'm a ford guy, but i could never justify the pricing.
it was not a 40k+ car.
As for product Ford already has, that is good...
You already mentioned a couple. I think the Fusion is good in its niche. Certainly better than the current Malibu which outsells it (which also speaks to there is no accounting for taste among boring sedan buyers).
Now, Ford has a decent RWD Australian chassis. The Mondeo is right up there with the best of the midsize cars from any manufacturer. Its styling also makes the Fusion look dowdy. Then there is the European Focus RS, the Focus Coupe Cabriolet, the Street Ka, the C Max, the S Max, and the newest Fiesta (which could easily compete with Aveo, Yaris, Fit). Oh, yeah, somehow they forgot to sell their best products here. But they still are Fords all the way.
I have absolutely no idea what that means. Care to explain?
Everything is overpriced. Using X-plan and further negotiating skills, I paid just under $32K (ignoring TandL) for my V6 sport 01 LS w all options but heated seats. It stickered at $37,600. Today, that $32K buys me an emm kay zee with a couple of options. It is a modified Mazda built with cheap Mexican labor. You wanna talk overpriced ...
$37,600 is about the base for a FWD emm kay exx. Which is a modified Mazda. And the door panels are hard Tupperware practically top to bottom. Overpriced? You bet.
Neither of these new models look good against Korean competition, let alone the BMW 5 Series. The LS is where Lincoln should have gone. The Mustang is not even a burned-out skeleton of an LS.
The V8 LS they were selling at the end of it's run based around $40K, then up with pricey options. Since they had done essentially NOTHING to upgrade it in 7 years, buzz dropped to Zero and it began to look it's age. And sticker shock was a problem, though we all know they could be had for minimum $6K under sticker.
Now, they COULD have done what they have now done with the Navigator, which is lower the sticker price by about $4 or $5 thousand dollars to be more in line with the actual selling price of the vehicle. My '04 Nav stickered at $62K but with Xplan and rebates, my price was about $51K IIRC. One HUGE difference. Now, a similar Nav stickers at about $56K I think.
My point? Lincoln doesnt compete with the CTS anymore, or the STS or the SRX etc etc. The emm kay ess arrives when, this fall? Next year? Then they will have something to go against the STS. We will see how that turns out.
Oh and gregg: Ford has announced they have killed the Freestar and Monterey. They may still be selling out stock, but no more are being made.
On another topic...the Mercury Monterey was supposed to be dead for 2007. They are still selling it. However, the 2007 Freestar is alive...they are allowing it to limp along until the Fairlane thing-y arrives. Of course they have enough of them already made that they don't have to continue building them. Who the heck wants them, without huge incentives, etc.? But my point, if I am allowed to have one, is that the Freestar is still in the 2007 lineup officially.
RACING! "In the history of American racing...the perfection of the Lincoln organisation before and during the fourth Panam has never been equalled" wrote noted reporter Griff Boergenson. Lincoln, running their 317 205Bhp@4,200Rpm 4,155lb coupe won The Panamera-Carrara three years in a row, often beating far lighter and more powerful competitors in class and overall. Lincoln never went racing after that, but the 1952-54 'Road-Race Coupes' gave impetus to the Chrysler 300 a year later.
Today Chrysler 300 is very popular, selling 13,000 units per month. Today Toyota is going to Nascar (now just how much money did they pay to do that?) and bringing their cars to the forefront in America. If they can win on the track, they can win anywhere. Ford Motor did spend enormous sums to win LeMans with GT 40's, but quit the field after their dramatic 1966 Victory. But that did not stop them on the field at Nascar.
Yes, Lincoln needs to take one of its chassis and hot-rod it and go racing. People will be astonished, appoplectic, stunned, but a few defeats followed by victories will change their mind. Cadillac has done well by fine tunning their cars at Nurburgring. The V-Series are excellent cars, and Lincoln is no-where to be seen in this regard.
High Performance is the one area that Lincoln has wholesalely neglected for decades. The LS raised our hopes that Lincoln was going to get serious about it. But all the executives that championed the car at The Glass House are gone---Ann Stephens now running Collins & Aikmen, the supplier for the Zephyr/Z. The Z is at least an attempt to get back in that direction, regardless of how misplaced the name of the car might be (I still refer to it as the "Zorro" edition!).
The engineers at Ford Motor need to do what Rudolf Uhlenhaut at Daimler-Benz did in 1967-68 when he encountered road-blocks in the executives suites towards making a true performance sedan. He took the M100 motor 6.3 Litre V8 from the W100 "600" Grosser Mercedes-Benz and stuffed it into the much smaller and lighter W109 bodyshell. He locked the hood and parked the car in the executive car park. His boss took it for his "week-end" test drive and the legendary 300SEL 6.3 was born---going on to sell 6,526 cars at nearly $12,000 between 1969-1972. Foregiveness came later.
The 220Bhp@4,000Rpm sedan (later rising to 300Bhp on higher compression) clocked the quarter mile in 15.5 seconds, and a zero to sixty time of 7.1 seconds. The 6.3 wieghed in between 3,800 and 4,300 lbs depending on equipment levels. At the time the 1969 Lincoln Continental sedan boasted 365Bhp@4,400 and posted a zero to sixty time of 9.0 seconds and nearly equal 1/4 mile time, yet wieghed nearly 1,200 lbs more. So Lincoln then could at least come within parity of the Euro sport sedans. Having driven both cars back to back for comparison, the Lincoln could match the 6.3 for straight-line performance and stopping power, but NOT cornering and in the "twisties", the IRS of the Benz and its air-suspension giving it the advantage. Yet both cars were (and remain) invigorating to drive. Many people today never know what Lincoln once was able to do, having only 5.0 Litre Town Cars and Mark Viii's to drive, (though the 155Mph Mkviii was a beginning too---but 'Continental's seemed to be roundly disdained by Bill Ford, so none exist today!) so there remains the chance for Lincoln to set a new tone.
That is what they need to do today. No ones expects Lincoln to produce such a car. The "Armsmen" should take it upon themselves, working the mid-night oil in a warehouse in Dearborn far away from Executives on the 14th floor of the Glass House and take a Zephyr/Z chassis and do the same things that Mr. Uhlenhaut did at M-B so long ago. The 6.3 set the standard that other cars had to match. Lincoln-Continental created a lot of customers for Mercedes-Benz in the 1970's when Lincoln veered away from higher quality sedans and moved into competing on a different (albeit) successful level against Cadillac and Imperial. Many people who owned a '60's Lincoln went to Mercedes-Benz and then BMW after 1970.
What better solution then, but to entice that kind of customer back to Lincoln than to proceed forth-with with a 'Skunk-works" derived performance sedan at Lincoln? The LS was the hope. The Z can be pushed to a higher plane...another higher performance motor with a dramatically uprated interior. Exterior wise you can put a discreet badge on the back.
Maybe in the "history of American Racing" Lincoln might regain esteem of the public on the track as well as the highway. The Armsmen can do it. Like Mr. Uhlenhaut, they can ask foregiveness later after they have parked their car in MR. Mulally's garage.
DouglasR
P.S. the commercials for such a car could fade from the Carrera Pan-America to today.
(Sources: 'Mercedes-Benz since 1945' James Taylor, Motor-Racing Publications 1993; 'The Lincoln Motorcar', Thomas Bonsall, Bookman Publishing, Baltimore Md, 1981
...And of course, it was Erich Waxeberger of the M-B experimental department and famous ralley driver that built the first 300SEL 6.3---parking the car in the unsuspecting M-B Managing Director Rudolf Ulhenhaut's parking space at Stuttgart. But it was Ulhenhaut that saw the wisdom of the project and with a wry smile gave it the approval it needed, and development funds to bring the car to production. Lincoln needs a Waxenberger and an Ulhenhaut today to revive the brand.
Lincoln could strike lightening with the "Z" and develop a skunk works car---going racing first!
DouglasR
(sources: Taylor, ibid.)
Are u asking what the 2008 emm kay zee will be like?
Assuming that is your question, then have a look at the 2007 emm kay zee cause little if anything will change next year.
That's the only word I've heard about improving the MKZ.
Rocky
I'm curious as to the type of buyer who will purcase a car with a twin turbo V6 and a transmission shifter gate that says "D-L" HAHAHAHAHA
Rocky
I have heard that the 3.7 NA engine might find its way into the Z. That would be a good move. What I would really like to see for the MKZ include rear seat AC vents, proper hood struts, manumatic shifter, improved interior door trim, and power tilt/telescope steering wheel. That wouldn't fix the too-short wheelbase but at least those things would be move it out of the cost-cutter class and not break the bank.
Ford's strategy in the past has seemed to be undercutting the direct competition by a few thousand which requires compromises. I'd rather see them spend the extra money and offer better performance and more features for the same money. I think the new regime will do that but we won't really know for another year or two.
rolo77, "Article Comments: 2007 Lincoln MKZ First Drive-8/06" #6, 19 Aug 2006 4:56 am
(ppl talking about it)
http://autos.aol.com/article/detroit-auto-show/_a/lincoln-mkr/200701041504099900- 01
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_MKS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_MKZ
and the MKZ, though far from production spec with its twin-turbo V6, clearly indicates that a Lincoln death will not come easily.
http://www.autosite.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page- _order_int/2/article_id_int/2525
I posted a lot of links some of which talk about the future and cars showing you Lincoln intent.
Hope this helps
Rocky
Yes, that is exactly correct. One of my criticisms of this strategy is the possible degradation of the Lincoln image. Surprisingly, there are still a lot of people who equate Lincoln with "upscale" or even "luxury." I have nothing against an entry level Lincoln but it should be a more signficant step above a mainstream family sedan. The MKZ, IMHO, is more similar to a loaded V6 Camry than it is a Lexus ES350.
I realize that Lincoln dealers needed something to sell and I do appreciate the quick upgrades from the Zephyr to the MKZ. I just think they have more work to do and hopefully the new regime will do it.
and the MKZ, though far from production spec with its twin-turbo V6, clearly indicates that a Lincoln death will not come easily.
Are you sure they didn't mean MKR?
No I honestly had better sites last summer talking about a Twin-Turbo MKZ.....I don't remember where they are at. Maybe it was something posted here on edmunds on insideline or in one of the major newspaper. If you visit forums/blogs you will see lots of talk about a TT MKZ.
As far as the Thanks goes......No problem....
Rocky
And where did this come from? You don't cite anything.:
"and the MKZ, though far from production spec with its twin-turbo V6, clearly indicates that a Lincoln death will not come easily"
Please post a link to what you said and nothing more. Otherwise you're just starting another unsubstantiated rumor. In point of fact, the emm kay zee will NEVER have the twin force turbo and you should know that.
Please dont waste our time here with multiple BS citings. I dont want to have to start ignoring your posts again.
In any case, the current MKZ needs a twin turbo about as badly as I need another derriere. Lots of other things should be higher priority, IMHO.
http://blog.vehiclevoice.com/on_the_road_driving_impressions/
That is for the MKX, which will be for the MKZ as well. I don't care if anyone believe me. I know what I read and if it comes true or not that is up to Lincoln. I was just sharing what I read and to be honest with you I have little interest in buying a Lincoln MKZ, thus I could care less how much power it does or doesn't get in the future.
Good God.......
Rocky
ls was a good car, just not great, especially for the asking price.
You know darn well that the list price on the LS, like the Navigator, is to be paid only by idiots and marketing people. This is another BIG gripe I have with Ford, the way they'll happily take a buyer for a nice long ride to the bank if the buyer is stupid enough to go. THere oughtta be a law. This year, the sticker on the Navigator has dropped like $5,000. Do you think Ford found a way to cut costs and save 5 grand? OK, maybe the new dashboard saves about 2000, but what about the other 3?
Be serious, anyone who frequents this board could get an LS for 10-15% under list without saying anything to the dealer but "X-Plan" Then would come rebates etc. So, get in your way-back machine (as opposed to the new way-forward machine) and take 12% off your $45K LS and then a rebate of like 3000 or so and you're at $37K And the LS is the best $37,000 car that's been available this millenium bar none. Except for the HVAC but that's another story.
BTW, my V6 Getrag LS does 0-60 in around 7 seconds (measured) and can hang with bimmers and wrxs on the track. I know cause I've done it. And I was a novice driver against these track-rats. No, didn't see any v6 shos there.
Oh, the emmkayzee? $34K w/AWD and what? The thing lists for what, 31500 w/AWD? What else would u get? I jsut checked. U can get the AWD w/moonroof and THX for $34K and change. No rebate. Maybe X-plan, that would be nice - bring it down to maybe $31K. It's a nice car to be sure. I think I'd either save about $6000 and get a Mazda 6 with an actual transmission and shifter (basically the same car but it allows driver INPUT) OR, I'd find a left over LS and strike the deal of the century and have a MUCH better vehicle for about the same price.
Rocky
Um...how can I delicately put this....OH, that was out loud, wasn't it! Sorry! Is your girlfriend "over 50" lemko? Cause the GM/TC usually doesn't make the heart race in younger people.... I could be wrong....
You know, Zsa Zsa's ninth husband, of the past 20+ years, may be the actual father of Anna Nicole's daughter, so maybe out of spite, the old broad has put on sunglasses and a sporty wheelchair, and started going to car shows with younger boyfriends...
Those sedans have so much room, you can do just about anything in there...
The MKZ is a great car in what is a literal sea of great cars these days. Lincoln would do well to give it either more personality, or more evocative styling (and stability control, and more cleaned up interior styling...but to each his or her own). Something to help it stand out from the crowd of well-engineered mid-sizers.
Rocky
I can't get past the Remington Shaver grille and the just wierd, gaudy, poor taste taillight array in back. This year, Cadillac has the style, IMO.
Rocky
So are you a Lincoln fan ? I'll be interested in the MKS, when it comes out this fall. I however am partial to GM, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider a Lincoln or Ford product if I liked one enough. I'm also looking forward to the next STS, to get reworked. I can't wait until the CTS-V comes out. Personally I'd like to see it be AWD, so I could do a 4 wheel burnout but that is likely not going to happen as it probably will be RWD.
My Top 5 cars I'm interested in........
#1 07' GMC Sierra Denali
#2 08' CTS
#3 09 CTS-V
#4 Lincoln MKS
#5 08' STS (refresh?)
Rocky
Rocky
Will u please pick a car, buy it and drive it? (Over Natalie Maines if possible.) You've had more lists of cars you're interested in than my kids have toys they want from Santa. Geez.
The cars that have stayed on my list quite consistently is the 08/09 CTS/CTS-V and the new 07' GMC Sierra Denali. I'm afraid heyjewel, that if I buy a 07' or 08' Model I will get it an then GM, will annouce they are building me My Buick Velite, and then I'd be on suicide watch. :sick:
I almost have to wait until next years autoshow to make sure it stays dead. :sick: I want to have something that will impresses Natalie Maines more than nvbanker's Lexus. :P
Rocky
The subject is where is Ford taking Lincoln. You want politics, there are PLENTLY of places elsewhere to do that to your heart's content.
That stinks......
Rocky