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Comments
I guess the 3.6 turbocharged version would be something different than just dumping in a big V8. I do think the big 3 do to much dropping in big V8's to get power when they should experiement more with turbocharging and using smaller and lighter engines IMHO.
Rocky
And 500/550 hp from the supercharged 5.4L in the GT/Shelby mustang GT.
The 5.0 Cammer engine is also rumored to produce 400 hp naturally aspirated but it's not a production engine yet.
I believe that isn't correct.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky - how do you explain the V10 in the M5?
Ford needed more then five liters and a supercharger to make over 500 hp.
Can you be more specific ?
Rocky
Rocky
There is something to be said for lighter, smaller engines with turbos or superchargers but that doesn't always make them better than bigger, heavier V8s. Each has it's advantages.
Rocky
is not going to do it. Just make Mercury the car line and Ford a truck line and cut the line in half. Make several successful designs, or import Euro Fords in a concentrated effort to save Ford. Without Ford, there is no Lincoln. A top line, higher quality Mercury by Ford would sell as well, unless people are hung-up on a name -- seems Lincoln is more a name than any substance. The Lincoln-Mercury dealers would then sell the same line of car as Ford, while Ford-Ford Truck dealerships would get the trucks and cars. Or Lincoln-Mercury could get more imports, and be a Mercury/Euro Ford dealers. Just a thought. I'll leave planning to the pros, and their multi-million dollar salaries. Something has to give, as the current situation looks pretty bleak. The Fusion/Milan is an attractive car, but is it too little - too late? If the New Malibu is a hit, Ford has yet another worry.
-Loren
Well, that's what I've been suggesting for GM - to make Chevy the Truck company, let Saturn be the little cheap car company, GMC can do trucks over 1 ton only, but the dealers would scream, and worse they would sue. I need to keep reminding myself, that the dealers are Ford & GM's customer, not the end user, and that's the way they look at it. We are "the public" to Ford.
I think this is the future Lincoln Flagship but I'm not convinced it will use a D2C mustang platform when it's all said and done.
-Loren
Where is Ford taking Lincoln? I would say they are following the current trend -- leading the way = NOT!
-Loren
Cadillac has expanded its production overseas to meet the realities of the New World Order in the auto market. It built 2,185 cars in Europe in 2006. It's KD plant in China is running at full tilt. RHD models are also in the works to appeal to the Asian market that depends on driving on the left. Cadillac even sold 1,172 cars in Japan---of all places where tariffs, taxes, and regulations double the price of the car. (Keep in mind that even Lexus only sold 10,293 cars in Japan against 183,037 in America!!, and imports captured a mere 261,534 sales in Japan---but 75% of all cars sold above $45,000 in Japan are foreign!!!) Where is Lincoln and Ford Motor? Lincoln could be built overseas as well...both for Mark R, and Town Car.
Lincoln must reach the same appeal without forsaking its roots. Clearly all the show cars here-to-fore that devolves to the classic roots of Lincoln never get built. The MKR, built from the Mustang platform with IRS, seems to be the most expediant alternative. Replacement for the Town Car can't arrive until 2010 at best. MkR could see the end of an assembly in production form before 2009. Mr. Horbury poured it all in for the MKR. The 'Poor Man's Aston' look of the MKS got nowhere. And Aston is history at Ford Motor despite building 4,461 cars last year---a record for Gaydon and the marque. So the MKR must carry the chalice.
Since it seems Bill & Elena Ford seemingly will let no Lincoln pass onto the showroom floor that looks at all like anything from the 1960's or even the 1950's, Mr. Horbury played the 'Phantom' card: going back to the 1940's yet pointing to various aspects from the different generations---noting the 60's roofline, the scythe line in the 70's, and the hint of 1941 in the Grille. Considering the Ford's nixt every approach in that direction (ask Mr. Reitzle), what Mr. Horbury did was nothing short of a master-stroke.
I canvassed about 100 people in my workplace with the Car & Driver article and asked them: "Would you pay money for this?" Only 14% of the people I asked said no---they didn't get the grille design. Everyone loved the curves on the side and the flared front wheel arches, and the hind quarters sticking out giving the wheels that 'power' bulge. Some likened it to a 600 Mercedes---and liked it better. Everyone recognised the car as a Lincoln, and all of them said it was too bad they hadn't built a nice car in a long time.
My own view considering my dislike for the Mark S, is that this has a great chance of success. Obviously the roof will be revised and the grille tightened up, among other features. But the platform is paid for, the IRS cheap to do on the rebound, so it can roll out the door soon enough at a new Lincoln factory.
It is immaterial to bander about Ford's patent neglect of its car-lines. ARM has rightfully mortaged everything to save Ford Motor---10 plants and a lot of other assets in his $23Bn loan package. GM & Chrysler's favorable reviews from the global press at Cobo Hall will only help Ford when they bring out viable products. Even Bill Ford admitted that "Our way is to do direct comparisons..." when it came to measuring its products against Japanese and European products---Ford is inviting people to drive their cars directly against the competition. That is what they must do with any new Lincoln---match it up against M-B, BMW, Cadillac and Lexus.
The MKR interior also has to represent a quality level far above anything they have done. Cadillac subcontracts its entire interior 'cockpit' to Inteir & Magna systems. Ford Motor and Lincoln must rely upon Collins & Aikman (in bankruptcy and directed by former Lincoln LS engineer and Ford Executive Ann Stevens), among other suppliers to make the Lincoln a go. So must the chassis engineering. Using a Mustang platform leaves a lot of room for improvement and different engine packages. They could run V6 and V8's to appeal to different types of buyers and markets. The ride & drive engineers have their work cut out for them. (Remember that the original 1975 Seville started from a Nova platform---but you would never know that driving one!)
Yes, I'd would have loved to see all those prior show cars built---but MKR is what is left in the pile. Imperial is moments away, and Cadillac is now ascendant. Thus the Lincoln Team must put all the chips on the Mark R table. Mark S won't see the light of day before hand, if at all.
DouglasR
(sources: WWJR Radio Bill Ford & Alan Mulally interviews with Paul W. at Cobo Hall, WSJ, FT, Automotive News)
I would love to see any make of car with a lower, and wider stance, and less of a big butt to the car. These tall cars, with too tall belt lines and enlarged ends are a bit too much.
-Loren
The Mark R is based from a Mustang. The Mark S from a Volvo/Jaguar platform. Replacement for the Town Car is due from Ford-Australia. Thus Lincoln's fate (for now) is being piggy-backed onto other Ford Motor platforms, without having a unique frame of its own. Lincoln has the better chance of revival than does Jaguar with its upcoming C-F show sedan (which looks like a demolition derby crash between a Jaguar and a Volvo) designed by Ian Callum. (Mr. Callum must be working under terrible constraints!) The precipitous fall in Jaguar sales seems not to be abated, and it should come as no surprise if Jaguar sales fall to less than 25,000 next year. Sir William Lyons did better than that when he ran the company.
Thus it falls to Lincoln---the fulcrum point in the Ford Motor empire---to revive the fortunes and the name of luxury at the Blue Oval. Astons will be gone. Replacements for the XJ and XK will be years away, even reskinned versions. Few people will want to buy a Jaguar that is nothing but a Volvo clone. (The same holds for Lincoln too, but the difference is that real character and performance could be added to separate it from the mundane Volvo line)
Ford Motor should not homogenize its products, especially Volvo, Jaguar, and Lincoln. If anything they need to make the differences even more apparent and distinctive to capture buyers. A wide spectrum of customers could be brought back to Ford by doing so. That is why the fate of Lincoln remains crucial, and especially true if America is not to be left with one (albeit Imperial is coming) and only ONE American luxury label remaining. Cadillac should not be left standing alone against the competition to represent our country in terms of automotive heritage.
That is the legacy that Ford Motor must defend. If the Blue Oval is to mean anything beyond Mustangs and pick-up trucks that young Mr. Ford is so enamored. I would advance the equal argument that Mercury should be made into an Audi fighter...and compete against the lower end of BMW and Mercedes products, not to mention various Asian brands. Ford can't make the mistake of doing what Roger Smith did at GM in the 1980's and 1990's.
The Mark R could start the revival...followed by core products and the eventual opening of a Lincoln factory within the United States with adjunct production overseas. Given the slough at Jaguar, they could even use Castle Bromwich to build Lincolns for European and Asian sale.
DouglasR
(sources: Automotive News; FT)
Interesting, I had a Nova, my uncle had a Seville, in 1975. You're right, driving a Seville, you wouldn't know it was a Nova platform underneath, however you would if you looked at the Roofline - because they were exactly the same. Only I would notice that, however.....only I would.
It will be a long slog back. The competition is very far ahead. November 1, 1945 Lincoln restarted production after World War II. Lincoln would build only 16,645 cars for "1946". Imperial followed with 1,400, and Cadillac would build 1,145 1945 and 29,194 1946 model year cars. That year Ford Motor was third behind Chrysler in the marketplace. It would take Lincoln more than 40 years to catch and surpass Cadillac---which it did briefly. Now Ford Motor is once again in nearly the same position as it was in 1945---third, but part of a market that is three times as large.
Lincoln has retrenched. The long road back begins now. Just as Cadillac has revamped its product and regained position and market share, Lincoln can do the same. Cadillac must not end up being the sole proprietor of the luxury market among "American" marques. Lincoln now has the advantage of lower expectations from the public and an "underdog" position. Thus it can capitalise on the corporate resources to march two paces ahead from where it now sits.
Since no "voice" exists within Ford Motor to promote Lincoln other than design staff members, as Mr. Lutz promotes Cadillac, and an obviously eager team is promoting Imperial at DCX, then it remains to point out what can be at Lincoln....
DouglasR
(Sources: Automotive News; Production Figure Book for U.S. Cars 1945-1985, Motorbooks International 1987)
VWAG sold 5,733,000 cars and trucks world wide in 2006, a gain of 9.3%, with a profit before special items of E526 per vehicle ($700). VWAG gains attained double digits in some markets, such as the 22.3% gain maide in Asia-Pacific, with Audi gaining 38.2% in China alone. Ford Motor sold 6,631,718 vehicles world-wide in 2005. That number is expected to drop to 6,100,000 in 2006 if not even lower. That means that given Ford Motor's own projections, and VWAG-Porsche's expansion plans, by 2009 the two companies should reach parity in terms of sales. VWAG is spending the
same amount of money within the next 24-30 months at E24.3Bn
that Ford Motor is committed to spending. About E149 per vehicle sold based on future projections.
The "throw-weight" of capital investment is essentially the same, what is at stake is far greater for Ford Motor: a a make or break deal. If VWAG succeeds under Messrs. Piech, Wiedeking and Winterkorn, it will become the third largest auto firm in the world by volume, surpassing Ford Motor. Lincoln and Audi sell the same numbers of cars in America, but world-wide Audi surpasses Lincoln, having sold 1,337,000 vehicles. Certainly the two brands are often divergent in their market segments, but Audi is upgrading, and even Ford acknowledges it as a would-be competitor for Lincoln....
Thus it becomes true that the final match has begun for Lincoln. Why cars like the Mark R becomes more important...evne the Mark S. It's a few minutes to midnight at Lincoln and Ford Motor.
DouglasR
(Sources; VWAG January 11, 2007 stock reports; Porsche AG Annual Report, July 31, 2006; Automotive News.)
DouglasR
It is significant in that the Mexican built Lincoln, the first truly Cad/Cam design, has faired well, more than a year after initial introduction. It means that there is a chance for Lincoln to rebuild, as it must do in order for Lincoln and the whole of Ford Motor to survive. They key question was whether on not for this individual, it was a "conquest" sale...what where you driving before?
Thus, this is a beginning...when the real world voice votes in its favor.
DouglasR
The Land Rover systems is made by Denso as is Jaguar.
They taylor each system to the particular vehicle so Land rover gets a pure off-road nav and jag does not.
Lexus has the maintance system built into the nav system which I think it pretty slick. I hope some of the newer fords get the same system.
The Nav in the MKZ is really nice as you can setup icons to represent certain destinations, destination groups, etc. I was going to work and wanted some breaksfast and within seconds I was headed to the nearest MacD.
I also have the integrated SIRUS radio and I am really starting to like it. I especially like listening to Europe News and their perception of what is going on over here.
Now I am working on getting my MP3 Player setup so I can plug it in to the THX Audio system.
Secondly _
I love those first-gen Sevilles. They were very attractive. The bustleback 1980-85 Sevilles were a controversial design like the boattail Rivieras of 1971-73. I thought it was an interesting design that was marred by awful engines and the decision to go FWD. The 1986-91 Sevilles are totally forgettable. The 1992 design was a quantum leap. I was in love with that car at first sight.
Perhaps Lincoln needs something like the more radical show car designs to get noticed. The MKZ looks OK, but it is not that different really from the Milan. I hope they make a Mark IX some day.
-Loren
Yes, but they pulled a "Versailles" (or should I say a Homer?) with the Cimarron. :P