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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    actually you'll have to pull over, put the car in park, step on the brake and then select OK.

    And, hang up your cell phone.....
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    And if it's programmed by Micorsoft, you'll have to pull over, shut off the car, remove the keys, get out, walk away and then after 5 minutes, you can come back to try again.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The rebirth of the MarkVIII. The Interceptor could be the Mark IX. Perhaps it will be the MIX or the 9 :D

    Normally, I think of GM of that era....
    I took a second look at the Ford tail end of '69 and you are right.... not a bad looking car and pretty much timeless
    -Loren
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Every once in a while, Ford hired a stylist. They didn't last long, it seems..... The highlight years of the Big Ford stylists to me were, 57, 63, 64, 66, 67, 69, 71, 75, never to be seen again.......
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Jewel, totally agree with what you said. I mean what is point? They are not going to build anything like that anyway. And even if they do – it will be too late – Chrysler 300 was revolutionary and it will move to the next step. Like Camry or Accord – every time someone catches up – the new Camry and Accord with improvements pop up.

    Catch-up game simply does not work when it is done four five years after original. You have to come with revolutionary design like original Taurus, Ford Focus or Chrysler 300 to become a leader. And Ford had it with Taurus and Focus and screwed it big way again and again. They are pretty consistent on that.

    Concepts from Ford are just concepts and unlike Chrysler’s have nothing to do with reality. If Fusion is what 427 is turned out to be – then who cares?

    But I agree - that is how REAL American car should look in mid 2000s. No wonder Detroit is failing
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    I'm pessimistic enough not to get very excited about this. I like the concept and really wish they would build it, but I'm not holding my breath.

    The Edmonds InsideLine article indicated one reason this likely won't be built is that Ford doesn't have a suitable domestic platform (Mustang notwithstanding) and again mentioned a possible solution of sharing an Australian platform. There was talk of co-developing a RWD platform with the Aussies. Where does Ford stand on this? One moment it sounds as if they're thinking of it, the next the idea seems to be axed. What would be the reason for not using an existing RWD platform from Oz? Import costs? Just wondering.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    at the Lincoln store today, while closed (they all close on Sunday here). I still know the door code my dealership uses, so I can pop the doors of most of their cars and get inside.

    NAVIGATOR: Have to say I'm impressed still with that truck. I miss mine terribly and it's possible at some point, I may go back to one. They are nicer in some ways than even my 03. In fact, other than the 78 Ford F-150 guage cluster (read stupid into that, Ford) it's very nice. The leather in the seats is 12 times better than mine was. It's still a very appealing interior. The Remington Razor grille is still a disgrace to me, but I could even possibly get over that. Those power running boards, powerfold third seats and comfort of the Navigator remains.

    TOWN CAR: Surprise, surprise - they are reviving the Town Car a bit. There is now a Designer Series with some color piping on the very luxurious seats. One of my big beefs with recent Town Cars were the miserable seats, but that has been corrected. They still don't cool, but you can get Navigation now, and things are actually looking up for the old Town Car customer. If they haven't already run to Lexus like I did.

    LS: They still have them, and they're still the same. Too small for me.

    MKZ: Again, really nice leather seats, nice interior, 3 series size or C - Class, way too small for me. Not badly done inside though, somewhat improved over the Zephyr.

    Mark LT: When is it going to become the MKLT likt it should be? Very nice truck, have always liked it. If I needed a Pickup, I'd buy one in a heart beat.

    So, if they continue to improve things there, I could become interested again. The Escalade is finally up to standards AFAIC inside, except for the unacceptable third seat setup, which will keep me out of that truck forever.

    Where Ford is taking Lincoln now - I see some hope. But it'll take forever to remake the brand.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Are they keeping the Town Car? All the Lincoln ads seem to feauture just the Navigator, Aviator, and MKZ. It looks like a pretty barren lineup from my perspective.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yes, the LS is gone, but the Town Car got a reprieve from Alan Mulally as soon as he saw that most of Lincoln's profits come from that car. It'll be made now in Canada with the other Panther cars. Hopefully, it'll get some interior updates soon too. But Bill Ford had cancelled it as of the closure of the Wixom plant, so marketing did all their brochures and ads without it or the LS. It needs to be put back in so they at least have 5 models to sell now.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Horbury has publicly stated that Ford/Lincoln would no longer be doing great concepts that never get built.

    The only part of the 427 that made it into the Fusion was the grille. In fact the Fusion started life with a different front end (more like the 500) but they had time to change it.

    The MKR is just a styling exercise to show the public and the Lincoln designers the future direction.

    The new Aussie platform isn't ready yet so the only suitable concept platform would be the current mustang platform. I expect it will be built either on a shared platform with the Aussies or on the new Mustang platform (which could be one and the same).
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    The new Aussie platform isn't ready yet

    So they are still developing something - good. I for one have no problems with sharing platforms across brands and across continents. It makes sense, and all the better if it gets something like the Interceptor and the MKR built.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Sharing platforms, parts and engineering across brands with common ownership only makes sense. Ford has benefitted greatly from Volvo's platforms, parts and engineering. I see more Volvo parts in my Fords than I do the reverse. Jaguar has benefitted greatly from Ford's engineering. Ditto Aston Martin. Land Rover, if it stays in the Ford fold, may also do so, but it's a late starter since BMW had it for about a minute and a half....realized the turkey they had purchased, and off-loaded it to Nasser, who at the time, had a plan and lots of money to fix it.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Is being sold not Land Rover...
    Ford can't sell Land Rover without selling jaguar as they are actually one company under the skin.

    Nearly all of the people I deal with at Land Rover have dual role jobs with Jaguar.

    BMWs purchase of Land Rover was more of a way for them to get into the SUV market quickly. What better way for a company with no experice building SUVs and trucks then to purchase a company that only built SUVs and trucks. Also keep in mind that BMW purchased the entire Rover group not just land rover so they got the MINI brand in the sale as well as Rover cars.

    Everything I have heard from people who have been with the company since before the BMW purchase suggest that BMW had no intention of holding on to Rover any longer then it took to get the SUV/4wd tech from Land Rover and figure out what parts of Rover cars/Mini cooper were worth keeping.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If you want to understand why Ford hasn't been sharing more platforms globally, read this article:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06356/748288-185.stm

    That article not only tells you why Ford has had problems but also why Mulally is doing all the right things to fix them.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Interesting article - thanks for posting.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Great article.
    It sounds like he has what's been missing at Ford-common sense.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    I've been looking at the rumored 4-door Mustang, the Lincoln MKR and now the Ford Interceptor. They all seem to share the same basic description and even the roof line.

    The Mustang isn't going to happen, but the MKR/Interceptor sure seem to be closly related.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Mr. Mulally's plan will be the best chance to save the company for sure. I think it'll work. He'll do what must be done to make money, and this company has been turned from the brink of bankruptcy before. It can be done again, even against today's challenges. His efforts however, will create an even bigger parts bin which the car magazines already hate in GM and Ford, but seem to have no problem with in Toyota and Honda. Every light switch on a Honda, Toyota, Acura or Lexus is the same, but that's fine. If A Volvo starts using a Ford light switch, oh, man, there'll be HELL to pay!! Although, I've seen a lot more Volvo parts in my Lincolns and Fords than I've seen Ford parts on any Volvo so far.

    At least it seems Alan has full discretion to do what he has to do to break down the walls of protection from the Ford family..... Not unlike when the Deuce took over for his Grandpa, and fired Harry Bennett.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Top years for styling of the big Fords in my book are 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1967 and 1968.

    The 1971-72 cars were good looking, but Ford was definitely pushing the cars in the direction of the luxury market, and any pretense or whiff of sportiness vanished.

    Among the new cars, I do think that the Fusion is very handsome...one of the best-looking cars in its price class. The 427-inspired front does stand out in traffic, and the car has a nice profile.

    Unfortunately, the Five Hundred needs more than a new grille and headlights. That car needs a whole new skin on it.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    I wish him luck, but having worked in a large corporation, I'm sure Ford has lots of management types who are more concerned with protecting their turf than doing what is necessary to ensure the survival of the company.

    I hope he is handy with the axe.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If they put their own divisions or personal gains ahead of the company they won't have jobs very long.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The 1971-72 Ford cars show Bunkie Knudsen's influence. The 1970-71 Thunderbird looks very Pontiac-like and the 1971-72 Custom 500/Galaxie/LTD also have a prominent central grille theme. Heck, the 1970-72 Torino almost resembles a GM mid-sizer in some respects. The prominent sweepspear body contour along the sides of the 1970-71 Torino reminds me very much of the similar contour on my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The 1971-72 Ford cars show Bunkie Knudsen's influence. The 1970-71 Thunderbird looks very Pontiac-like and the 1971-72 Custom 500/Galaxie/LTD also have a prominent central grille theme. Heck, the 1970-72 Torino almost resembles a GM mid-sizer in some respects. The prominent sweepspear body contour along the sides of the 1970-71 Torino reminds me very much of the similar contour on my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe.

    Indeed! For such a short timer at Ford, Bunkie had a profound influence on the design for those years. Don't forget the 71-73 Mustang, which looked a lot like more like a Camaro, and is generally discounted as "not a real Mustang" these days. Bunkie got those Galaxies and LTDs looking a lot like a Pontiac, didn't he? I liked them generally, especially the front. But as soon as he was gone, they started to "square" back up and look like a Ford again really fast.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I've always thought of the 1971-73 Mustang as the "Fat Mustang." Still, they were galaxies better than that Pinto masquerading as a Mustang that was built in 1974-78! Good God, that has to be the Mustang's nadir!

    I recall looking at a 1975 Ford LTD Landau two-door when I was shopping for my first car back in 1981. I kind of liked it as it had flip-up lights as if it were trying to ape a Lincoln Continental. I passed on this car as I noticed the beginnings of a very serious rust problem in the rear quarter panels. Early to mid '70s Fords were notorious rusters.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I've always thought of the 1971-73 Mustang as the "Fat Mustang." Still, they were galaxies better than that Pinto masquerading as a Mustang that was built in 1974-78! Good God, that has to be the Mustang's nadir!

    And sadly, and unbelievably, I had one of both!! A 72, and a 74!! Both extremes, both losers, never had one of the "good Mustangs"...... I'm such a moron.... :lemon:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Still, they were galaxies better than that Pinto masquerading as a Mustang that was built in 1974-78! Good God, that has to be the Mustang's nadir!

    Funny you should mention that. I just saw one in a parking lot near my grandparents home in extremely rural Alabama. I told my wife that I hadn't seen one of those in years. Then again that whole area seems to be about 25 years behind the rest of the world.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Now wait a minute-- The Mustang II wasn't a bad car, It's suspension is under half of the hot rods built in the last 20 years and there is an entire racing series centered on the MII's 4 cylinder. It's just that it's style is so leisure-suit.

    As far as the "fatstang" ; I had a 71 in High School.
    Even with 100k miles and a 302, I could smoke the tires.
    They didn't have much room inside but there were remarkable activities conducted inside of mine, which might explain the back problems I have now.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I just saw one in a parking lot near my grandparents home in extremely rural Alabama.

    I'm very familiar with Alabama, allen - I'll bet I know the "rural" town - what is it???? I'll go make an offer on the car..... :P
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ahhhh, scooter - I KNEW you were somewhat a kindred spirit!! Both of my stangs are shown on my carspace..... I have no shame..... :P
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Woodland, Al. Randolph county. Near Wedowee and Roanoke. About 30-40 miles South of I-20 on the AL/Ga state line.

    If you're serious I'll tell you where I saw it. I doubt it's been moved. :sick:
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Wow, you're right, that's rural enough that I've not heard of it, and I lived there for 2 years. I even know where Guntersville and Eutaw are.....

    It's not running, eh??
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Didn't look like it, but it wasn't up on blocks, either.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ok, I'll pass....
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    Heck, the 1970-72 Torino almost resembles a GM mid-sizer in some respects. The prominent sweepspear body contour along the sides of the 1970-71 Torino reminds me very much of the similar contour on my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe.

    Or a 68-69 Chevelle...
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Did you see the Lincoln MKR on the cover of Car and Driver? When was the last time a Lincoln made the cover?

    Also, did anyone notice vehicle #3 in the upcoming Barrett-Jackson auction? A 1974 Mustang II...
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Wonder what the bids will be for that Mustang II (alias Pinto)? Maybe Ford should offer a couple of thousand and buy it back. For inspiration they could place this in the design and engineering room, with a sign atop reading NEVER AGAIN !
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    So the Ford CEO likes Toyota and Lexus....
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070104/ap_on_bi_ge/ford_toyota_2
    Something about this whole article gives one the feeling that the new CEO may not fully believe in Ford/Lincoln in relation to Japan quality. Have we not heard time and time again that the domestic cars are as good, will soon to be as good, or they are nearly as good as Japan makes? Now we have someone that had ordered a Lexus running Ford.
    Oh well, certainly not the best press, but things could be worse.. stay tuned. Personally, I kinda like the looks of the Fusion/Milan/MKZ cars.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Loren,

    Thanx for the link. :)

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    This is no secret, Loren - the first day on the job, Alan said his Lexus LS430 was the finest car on the planet. I tend to agree with him. I see that as a good thing - someone grounded in reality may be able to bring Ford back into reality after a long absence. I'd rather have Mulally admit that Ford needs to improve, than for him to come in and say Ford is great and building the finest cars in the world! I've had Gm blow that crap up my skirt for decades! It never made them the best, just because they said they were.....
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    So what is your take on the CTS and the LS cars by GM & Lincoln? In their price bracket, how close or far would you rate them to Japan and Euro makes these days. Yeah, I know the LS is gone -- they let it twist in the wind, until.... well its gone. I test drove an '03 CTS and found it sort of interesting, though it would take a good weekend run to really get a total feel of how the car is.

    I have never driven the Lexus cars. Used, the prices seem to be a bit high and I just haven't seen any look I cared for all that much. The smallest Lexus RWD may be a fun ride. Seems like some new styling has come its way. Perhaps it is something to consider. I go way back to the '60s where it comes to cars, so I was raised on BMW and other makes being the dream car long before anyone in the wildest dream would consider a Japan make as luxury. Nowadays, when Mercedes is slipping in initial quality reports, and BMW is pretty darn expensive for maintenance, perhaps I can see how some shop Japan makes in luxury rides. Still thinking a CTS may be a good balance between fun, practical, with a bit of luxury, or should I say stylin'. When buying new, I suppose a Lexus or Acura will hold value the best without even looking up the values on the Net. A simple look around the car lots gives one sticker shock! To tell you the truth, some Accords priced at $30K seem a bit much to me. OK, not quite as shocking as the Mazdaspeed6 in the $30K+ range. Am it but getting old? Seems like a shock to me, but then again, I bought an Opel Manta Rallyee for $3,150 out-the-door price back in '73, so yeah, I'm old.
    -Loren
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's not about final quality - it's about the processes and efficiency that get you there while also keeping costs down.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Actually, two years ago a Ford executive (whose name escapes me) admitted at one of the major auto shows that the Camry was a much better car than the Taurus, and that is why it, and not the Taurus, was now the number-one selling car in the country.

    From what I've seen, more of the "We'll turn the corner and beat the Japanese when this all-new Model X debuts" talk comes from GM than from Ford.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well both GM and Ford are trying to hit a moving target. And that target keeps accelerating and moving higher upscale. Instead of matching what Japan puts out, they would do best to make a decent quality car, but with a uniqueness which would define the Bold or the Revolution car. To date a few bright spots have appeared from Big Two, but I would not call it Bold Moves or An American Revolution (whatever that means). The Fusion has a bit of flash to it, but nothing boldly different to it as to attract a million customers to the showroom, as did say the first Mustangs. The Cadillac CTS was pretty Revolutionary, yet that dates back a few years now. The Solstice could have been a big selling car, IMHO, if it was introduced in that show Coupe model. Instead of just an image builder for GM and Pontiac, it could have been a real hot car sales wise and perhaps have made more of a splash in the big pond.

    My take on cars like the Chrysler 300 is that they built a car with cool and bold look, which is good, but with the tall doors and smallish windows limited customers looking for the practical side as well. By that, I mean those wanting to see out well and not feeling too confined. Hanging an elbow out the window is getting so hard to do these days. I see other cars with too high door window sill syndrome as well. And it need to have a refresh job soon. The coming bond with Chery cars will likely be the final chapter for Chrysler. One day they are moving classier, as in Mercedes image, and then the next they are moving to cheapo cars -- which is it? The new Challenger looks hot! Too expensive and too big for me. Won't even fit my streets here. The original car was big enough for a sporty pony car - new one adds more inches. Is this not 2007? Won't the gas prices soon be $3.50 per gallon? I was told some years ago the decade of lighter, much lighter and smaller cars was coming soon. Recall they were going to drop weights across all car lines in future years?

    -Loren
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So what is your take on the CTS and the LS cars by GM & Lincoln?

    Thanks for asking, loren. I've driven both, rented them frequently. They both sit too low for me and both are too small for me. IMO, the 6 cylinder is a waste in both of them. In the CTS, the 6 is turboed, and it's faster than the LS. The V-8 in each of them is great. The LS has about 20 more x "fun to drive" factor IMO. It handles very much like a BMW 5 series, with an almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution. The Caddie is ok, but misses the details on the handling. The Caddie has way too big a steering wheel - you feel like you're twisting a bus around. The interior isn't stellar in either, but the LS is prettier than the CTS, IMO, with better looking plastic and aluminum or wood trim. Between the two, I would take the LS even in its discontinued state any day. The only point I give to
    Caddie as superior - is in the exterior styling. The LS is not a pretty car.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Thanks for opinion on the two cars, but the six in the CTS is not turbo charged. I should test drive an LS with the V8 some day. A local lot has one in stock right now. Not sure how Ford is going to back these cars since they have dumped the LS. Why didn't Lincoln sharpen the looks of the LS ? It looks a bit sleepy - not bad.
    -Loren
  • bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    I believe Ford didn't really do any to the LS because it was costing them to much to built it... ive driven both cars and i agree with nvbanker the LS handles better than the CTS and the interior looks nicer...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    but the six in the CTS is not turbo charged.

    Well for how long ? I do see a slim possibility of this option being considered. ;)

    Rocky
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Why turbocharge the 6 when you already have V8s that fit and produce 400 hp?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    What V8 produces 400 horsepower ????

    Rocky
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Geez, Rocky. How could you miss that one?

    Here's a hint: CTS-V.
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