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Comments
This is not propaganda, this is simply a fact. Type "lean production" and "Toyota" into your favorite search engine, and read up about it. Toyota offered the greatest advances to mass production since Cadillac's standardization of parts and Henry Ford's evolution of the assembly line. Give credit where it's due and learn from it, instead of rejecting it just because it wasn't invented here.
Rocky
Rocky
Not by choice as I've explained several times in the past. The big 3 after they do close the scheduled plants will still make the japanese look like a pimple on the impact one has on our country. If you've noticed the Japanese have moved their focus to other country's beside the U.S. and I wouldn't be surprised a bit if it takes awhile for a major plant to come to the U.S. after this San Antonio plant gets on-line. Toyota along with Honda seem very focused on the chinese market.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Right, and that's why team building produces superior results -- because you are more likely to care if you are part of a team, and because the team members help each other out. That is NOT what is done on a traditional Big 3 assembly line.
By the way, GM is selling all the Buicks they can build (in China) in China.
Ain't one American bolt in 'em.
Rocky
Rocky
Anybody can do the jobs if they have common sense and are allowed ample time to learn how to do the job with OJT time. My father had a helluva a time training his replacement and after 4 months dad said he was adequate at best and admitted to me Delphi was going to have problems a rise and the line will be shut down until they brain storm. The assembly line is brutual work at both at the domestic and transplants however it doesn't require a high degree of intellegence but a high degree of hand-eye cordination and attention to detail.
Rocky
I agree the chinese made buicks appear very nice and I for one wished they would build that Buick Royaum over here because it's a nice RWD car that rivals or exceeds the luxury we have in many of our Cadillacs.
Rocky
Yes and No. They both are huge international companies with stockholders all over the world including banks, insurance companies and pension funds here in the US. Big companies can't/won't do such stupid things like you and lemko are suggesting. You both are so unaware of how big international companies operate it's scary.
You say some of the weirdest off the wall things when you get on this susbject. You're clueless.
Boyo, you hit the nail on the head with this post. Well done.
Helllooo reality check... they use Chinese workers because they are building the vehicles for the Chinese market.
Here is a shock also there are millions of people in China who are smarter and better educated and more capable in a factory than you are.
It's tough but you'll just have to accept the fact that the detroiters can't get away from the UAW fast enough. Everything the detroiters sell but trucks and SUV's will be made outside the US.
htown1, "2007 Toyota Camry Problems & Repairs" #2686, 28 Dec 2006 11:51 am
Let these stand as two examples of "zero defects" returning to reality.
>having zero defects, even if the line has to sometimes stop. This is a significant difference in approach, and explains why Toyota does a superior job -- because they catch defects early, and make sure not to repeat them on the rest of the batch.
The discussion about transmission problems must have not heard Toyota's technique of 'not repeating them on the rest of the batch' exists! :confuse:
Regression to the mean.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A good example is the Tempo and it’s Freon leak. A design flaw that was never fixed. Year after year returning the car to the dealer to have Freon put in so that the air condition will work is very annoying. If Ford had solved this problem quickly I might look on them a tad better.
In this case Toyota if going to have to fix it soon. It has already lost some buyers that way. However from the old what will it take to save GM thread. It seems that for every one person Toyota ticks off, the domestics seem to tick off three.
However, Toyota's problems aren't necessarily going to help GM. Toyota will simply join GM on the "don't buy" list. Mercedes is suffering this fate now. They've had a terrible run of quality problems for several years and it's catching up with them. However, the winner for Mercedes lost sales hasn't been Lincoln or (in most cases) Cadillac.
My uncle had been a Cadillac man for years, and switched over to Mercedes out of frustration. Unfortunately, he got one of the famous E class that had more electrical problems than a drunken Lucas electrician. He dumped it. Did he return to Caddy? No he bought a (wait for it)
Chrysler 300 Hemi
instead. (But you all thought I was going to say Lexus, didn't you?)
You say some of the weirdest off the wall things when you get on this susbject. You're clueless.
Have you ever stopped and listened to yourself ???? Anyone can pretend to sound smart. I think this is one of those cases.
Toyota, can give a rat about the international community. They only care about making money and to be #1. I know some of you guys believe the ad campaigns presented by toyota and swallow that garbage hook, line, and sinker.
Rocky
Time will prove lemko, and I, weren't the dummy's. Some of us look outside our shell
Rocky
Yes kd, I'm aware. I do read the detnews "auto-insider" quite often along with other internet sources.
It's tough but you'll just have to accept the fact that the detroiters can't get away from the UAW fast enough. Everything the detroiters sell but trucks and SUV's will be made outside the US.
I disagree because Bill Ford Jr. and Rick Wagoner both have admitted in the Detroit news they would like to build modern plants in the U.S. but will only do so if the UAW loosens up their work rules and allows the workers to work in teams like the Lansing, Cadillac Plant.
Rocky
Chrysler 300 Hemi
instead. (But you all thought I was going to say Lexus, didn't you?)
So he bought another Mercedes. :P
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
>Honda is building a plant in Ohio
Where is Honda building the plant in Ohio?
I thought their last proposed plant is being built near Greenwood, IN.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes that is true. Remember seeing it in the detnews ?????
I do.....
Rocky
This is going to lower the bottom for pricing with China entering the market. How will Hyundai react? Will Americans buy the product?
Perhaps it turns out to be a brilliant marketing move, and I am but an idiot for not seeing the future.
As for tariffs - I would say as needed, if the company is proven to be dumping just to get market share. At that point, the big two may have to ammunition to get some tariffs in place. Would not to too anxious to enter into tariff wars however.
-Loren
You bring up a good point. What benefit does DCX get in helping Chery with their dealership network ? I never heard of DCX buying a percentage of Chery, unless DCX is getting shairs of stock in return ?
What's so amazing to me is it was about a month ago DCX, was mad at the chinese for copying there "Smart" and cloning Chin-E Benz's.
I guess I'm :confuse: about these steps made by DCX ? Perhaps like the old saying goes "there is more than meets the eye" ? :surprise:
As for tariffs - I would say as needed, if the company is proven to be dumping just to get market share. At that point, the big two may have to ammunition to get some tariffs in place. Would not to too anxious to enter into tariff wars however.
The only foreign company that probably could be accused of that is Hykia to the rental fleets. However Toyota did some "dumping" last year according to a article I read earlier this summer. I also wouldn't be surprised some dumping takes place this year by Toyota so they can take the top spot from GM.
Rocky
Personally, I do not believe the Chinese/Soviet education system turn out the best entreprenuers in a free market place. However, for staff work, 300,000 engineers each year (as in new graduates of of Master of Engineering and Bachelor of Engineering programs) do represent a significant source of human resources, that either our western capital take advantage of or leave to the old soviet style weapons labs.
The average college graduate in China makes about RMBY20-30k; GM production line jobs pay just about that, or a litle more. So GM can indeed pick and choose.
Thank-you.......... A great post indeed
Rocky
I seriously doubt every Buick production worker had a college degree. I don't know that for a fact but lets just say I'm very skeptical on that one.
Rocky
The American education system is much more diversified. In general, it pulls ahead in the third year of college, when students in specialized fields start to get some of the best education in the world in these fields, especially at graduate school. In contrast, since a national curriculum is impossible at college level and beyond as specialization takes place, the Chinese education system seems to suffer complete paralysis. Their colledge, graduate and post-gradute programs are pathetic both due to lack of funding and as a result of the best students and teachers seeking to build their careers in a more pomising environment. Not a surprising result of "free education" and government sponsorship of jobs instead of a free-market driven skill-honing institutions.
I'm with ya now..........
Rocky
The average is irrelevent. The top 25% of Chinese population constitute a population of 300 million by itself. The son of a rice farmer can stay behind farming rice or stitching soccer balls for our kids for all I care, it's the sons of college professors that end up getting the jobs at Shanghai GM. Shanghai GM only needs a few thousand workers, to be chosen from a city population of 15 million (18 times that of Detroit), none of whom grew up on a rice farm. It's also a city that has 30+ colleges and universities, turning out over 100,000 college graduates every year. The best part? The average pay of those 100,000+ college graducates is less than what Shanghai GM offers!
I have no idea what kind of education you received, Rocky. I got my first 9 years of education in China. That was enough to place me out of first year of college, at one of the best engineering schools in the US, no less, through AP tests in every math and science subject there was. I spent a year in an American High School in order to take these AP tests, and marked my time by picking up AP credits in Computer Science, American History and English along the way so I don't have to take Freshmen and Sophomore college classes in those either. Was I smarter than the son of a rice farmer in China? I have no idea. The son of a rice farmer never had the opportunity. I always competed against other sons of college professors. The first son of someone who made a living with their hands that I met was the college roommate I had in the US. Coming from upstate New York (of central European descent if you have to know), he never dreamed bigger than learning some technical skills then going back to work for his dad before meeting me. Glad I inspired him to dream bigger, much bigger; he is actually a lot smarter than I am. So don't ever under-esitmate the intelligence of someone unknown just because they don't have the opportunity.
A funny incident when my wife was teaching high school: after I helped out with some science project at the local school, one of her students asked "Are Asians all so smart?" "No," was my answer "you only got to meet the smart ones." In other words, it's a sampling bias; so long as transportation is expensive, the well travelled ones tend to be the smart ones. Likewise, GM only needs to hire the best in China. The average labor quality of the whole country is irrelevent; only the best available for the price is relevent.
I take it you are of Chinese descent ???? I will tell you this you seem to be very educated. However you and I just often disagree on domestic policy for this country which is fine.
A funny incident when my wife was teaching high school: after I helped out with some science project at the local school, one of her students asked "Are Asians all so smart?" "No," was my answer "you only got to meet the smart ones."
Well many many americans including a couple of my friends really think Asians are the brightest people on Earth. It angers me hearing them say such things.
Rocky
You know what else? I'd rather have the CEO's make millions on some years and make $1 on others depending on company performance, and get no hearing from the country's President, than have the corporate capitains make relatively small sums on paper but have access to their employees' private parts, control the community through the Yakuza, and control the national government itself through political machination. Why? Because if power is distributed and allocated in units of money, it can be traded and reapportioned based on competence and in increments; Raw political power is neither divisible nor transferrable without violence, and highly prone to monopoly.
A "decent wage" is highly dependent on what it can buy. $10k a year is a stupendous level of income in 1925, when a car cost $250; that's the sort of salary only a high level corporate executive made. $10k a year today can't even pay for a baby sitter. Decent level of income can only be meaningfully measured by what the money can buy. That means, more products need to be available for purchase in the market place at the first place. Labor unions and "protective" tarrifs are both terrible ideas that restrict supply and bring down overall living standards.
Yes, I'm a naturalized American Citizen of Chinese descent. It pains me sometimes to witness my adopted homeland (the US) being pushed into directions that China was infamous for. Market intervention by the government has a 2000 year history in China. The ideas of labor unions, social welfare, price control, tarriffs, and anti-trade policies all have been tried numerous times ever since the time of 8 AD in China (yes, when Jesus Christ was still walking the eath), all inevitably leading to economic catastrophies.
Well many many americans including a couple of my friends really think Asians are the brightest people on Earth. It angers me hearing them say such things.
The bell curves overlap so much that no meaningful line can be drawn along racial lines. What your friends are witnessing is sampling bias. They may want to know that the average Chinese think Americans are a lot smarter than themselves, for the same reason: the travelling population that they come into contact with first-hand tend to be the smarter ones.
BTW, my username "brightness" is a simple word play on the anglicized family name, not a boast at all.
brightness, you know your full of B.S. saying that labor unions bring down standards of living overall. Labor unions are the only reason why manufacturing wages are still at a reasonable level. Non-union business like yours is forced to pay a reasonable wage or possibly your employees will get fed up and organize. I could perhaps see a argument for tariffs lowering the standard of living for all but even those arguments haven't yet convinced me that it's not a responsible alternative to the un free and unfair market we have in place now. We as a nation are becoming two classes. Rich and Poor. As more and more americans go from the middle class to poor they will get angry and will fight until somebody does something about it. You perhaps already know about these incidents since you have studied history. If Capitalism leads to a two-class system in this country then the majority of poor people will revolt and either communism or socialism as a form of government will come to fruitition. I have history on my side to back me up and the poor will take from the rich. So the greedy capitalist better change there ways or face the consequences.
Rocky
-Loren
It took me a very long time.
Rocky
Rocky