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Comments
The only problem with this thinking is that there are no Civics that are languishing on the lots. The Civic is a very hot property right now, and should continue for the near future.
I have felt all along that the Fit will be geared towards the "1st new car group" i.e. high schoolers, college kids and the inner city commuters. Parents will look at a fully equipped Fit with auto trans for 15K and snap them up. A similar Civic will run about 18K at current discounts for the EX auto.
This isn't something that Honda just thought about, they have had the Fit on the plate for almost two years now.
For me, it's about a fun-to-drive, inexpensive and reliable 4-door hatchback.
I'm in my mid-thirties and it will be our family's 2nd car so I guess I'm not part of the demographics you've mentioned!
But hey, all the better for Honda, they just might have a winner here!
GD3747EW Base manual
GD3847EW Base automatic
GD3 standing for "Fit 1.5 2WD"
7 or 8 in the 4th digit stands for "5-door MT" or "5-door AT"
4 or 6 in the 5th digit means Base or Sport
7 in the 6th digit stands for MY 2007
EW = ???
I should probably add that we'll be trading in my wife's Civic for another Fit, once the Fit goes through its full model change in another couple (few?) years.
Yes, I have been hooked on Honda since the 80's, but have been continually disappointed with how my civics’s have gotten bigger and more expensive every year. What hooked me on Honda in the 80's is exactly what I still want today: reliable, affordable, quality transportation. I believe that American Honda is going to be surprised at the broad demographic that buys the Fit. This car hits a sweet spot that has been ignored by Honda for almost 20 years.
Honda has made no bones about targeting the youth (or as My Cousin Vinnie said "youts") They specifically went after this bracket with the Element...and I sell more to the...ahem...older folks. OK, so "older folks" means that you all in your 30's are still twenty years younger than me.
2nd car purchases of the Fit does make a lot of sense and only adds to the overall impact of this car. This April will be very interesting.
Where I live in Northern California, there seem to be plenty of Scion xA and even more xB. But the Fit will have more cargo space than the xB, let alone the xA (I measured the cargo space in the xB with a tape measure). One main downside to the xB is that if you drive 80 on the freeway, your gas mileage drops to about 26 mpg. The Fit should still get at least 35 from what I've read, at that speed.
Yes, sure, it would be nice to have better gas mileage, a 6-speed would be the best. But the Fit should also have lots of pep as it is.
I have a base MT in Lunar Mist on order.
I chose the Fit because it was the only wagon of this size to get a 1.5 engine. Most competitors just have 1.3 or ze need to push for a large car to get 1.5
This is my first Honda and I am quite pleased. The Engine is vivid and helps maintain a good pace, while keeping pretty refined manners. Fuel efficiency is OK. depends much on how hard I press the pedal. The ride is firm at slow speeds but suitable for higher speeds, handling is secure and I don't fear the car to roll over in tight corners. I would have wished for better noise insulation as the tires seem to be a bit noisy, especially if the pavement is not perfect. Engine very silent in low revs, begins to tone up in higher revs, but not harshly.
I chose a leather trim that gives an upscale push to the cabin, regretfully, there were no beige interior. all models are black
Consider me jealous!
It is wonderful to read a cool headed evaluation of Fit among Fit enthusiasts. I drive several cars in North America and East Asia. In Asia, one of the cars I own is Honda City 1.5L VTEC with CVT. It is a sedan having the same body frame as Fit (Jazz) and the same 1.5L VTEC engine that will be used in the Fit sold in USA. In Japan, City is called Fit Arias.
After driving City for over 10,000km/6,000miles, I am regretting for having bought it. In Autoworld.com.my website, many City drivers prefer Suzuki Swift over Honda City. I tend to agree with their reasons for not choosing Honda City or Jazz. In SE Asia, City/Jazz sell less than Toyota Vios 1.5L.
It is unpleasant to quench the enthusiasm of Fit lovers. On the other hand, it seems right for those with actual experience to warn those 'blind' enthusiasts about what they do not know. Honda reputation can come and go, like many other car companies.
Honda Motor has grown from a motorcycle company to be a major player in motor vehicles. The founder, Mr. Honda, played a crucial part. During his management, I unknowingly became a loyal Honda/Acura buyer. After the death of Mr. Honda, I have subconsciously started to looked at other car choices. I felt something was missing in Honda cars. In recent years, after buying a Honda - like an old habit, I would after a couple of years traded in for another brand. In 2005, I was misled by car journalists with glowing descriptions on Honda City about its CVT and other innovations. It has been such a disappointment to drive this City on the highways - uncomfortable seats, bumpy ride, 'strange/numb' handling feel, bad quality, etc.. I must be fair to say also that Honda VTEC engine is superb and the CVT, while there is no problem, is smooth and nice to use.
CVT is a wonderful thing in car. While many car companies (Audi, Nissan, Toyota, Benz, etc) have moved to use more CVT even for more powerful cars, Honda seems to be 'retreating' from CVT, even with lesser horsepowers. Why would Fit in US use 5AT, not CVT? This change by Honda after 5 years' use on Fit in Asia and Europe requires additonal research, new equipments, time, tests, costs, etc. Why the 2006 Civic also does not use CVT? Maybe Honda Japan knows something about its CVT that it does not want to share with the Honda enthusiasts/public. In the said Autoworld website, there are quite a few threads complaining about the slippage of CVT. Honda has now prescribed its service centers to use a new CVT oil after many months of complaints by CVT users.
In summary, Honda despite its better worldwide sales has lost its 'something special' during the heydays of VTEC innovation. Mind you, Nissan has now passed Honda as the No. 2 car maker in Japan, while Toyota surges way ahead of others. It is interesting that so many cars have now adopted features similar to VTEC that VTEC has lost its luster. Even this year's Ward's 10 Best Engine awards have not mentioned Honda VTEC but included Toyota and Nissan engines.
I personally feel Honda Japan and its businesses in every country must be more responsive to its customers and take better responsibility for its defective products. This is in addition to keep higher standards of quality of its products in congruence with its reputation built up in the past.
Many Honda lovers take comfort by Civic winning the Car of the Year award by Motor Trend. Just read the article in Motor Trend (January 2006 issue) which I have done. Most of the comments on Civic winning the award were on Si model (which is not yet on sale) and on the hybrid (small quantity sale). Comments on the best selling regular Civic DX, LX and EX 1.8L engine are like passing comments. Moreover, the dismissal of many of the other 28 contenders was rather weak or unconvincing.
I am still a Honda enthusiast, though diminishing. However, I wish Honda Japan can be like to the time when Mr. Honda, the founder, was in charge: It was then someting special about Honda cars and Honda organisation/Way/attitude.
I'm sorry to hear about the unfortunate experiences you have had with the City and other Honda products in recent years. It's nice to hear opinions from the other side of the table as well.
I personally have been a fan of Honda products for many years, but not because of being biased (which admitedly I am), but because I continue to be satisfied with the products they deliver. Also, many of us have actually seen, ridden in, or driven the Fit/Jazz already, so we're not exactly blind to it. I have found the car to be a great automobile. Definitely not overwhelming, but none of us are looking for a Type-R either.
I personally have never liked the City, and one of my biggest fears was that it would be introduced to the US instead of the 5-door hatchback, which in my opinion is far better looking and more versatile.
Now, to something that is truly depressing.
Has anyone seen the updated Fit website?
Honda USA should fire Mrs. Smith's 3rd grade Computer Graphics class and get some really people on this.
The Society of Fit page is even worse.
No, I don't need stickers!!!!
The leather was dealer-installed but it is very satisfactory. they even had the door panels fit with the same leather. I really recommand this if you plan to cherish this little car, as I do.
morevover, US customers will get japan made models which should be better finished than China made ones (but I am quite satisfied with my copy already)
So i should be the one to be jealous!
I think the real only advantage the China model has is the CVT instead of the 5 speed auto. Throttle response is a tad sensitive but satisfactory nonetheless.
some thoughts:
I basically bought the fit for 15K USD with leather, A/C, Power sunroof, remote control lock, electric mirrors+windows and a few accessories, so seems to be the same price than in US.
However, if I want to buy an Accord, I will have to pay a hefty 38K USD here (v6 model), which is unreasonably more expensive.
I don't feel I have more than twice a car with the accord than with the Fit, on the contrary, the fit is good value for the money
http://www.guangzhouhonda.com.cn/fit/
It is selling quite well here because :
1) Its rear boot makes it offer more car for same sticker price than the shorter 5-door
2) It comes with a much nicer beige + factory leather cabin (for the higher end) that offer a more upscale feeling than the 5-door.
in short, the saloon offer a little more social status for no more price, which is well appreciated in China.
I don't like the saloon either, even though I would dream of the interior of the saloon in my fit.
Performance-wise, both models are basically the same
====
"Toyota's Corolla Beats Honda's Fit to Top Japan's Sales Ranks
Feb. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp.'s Corolla sedan led car sales in January, making it the most popular model in Japan for the first time in three months, taking back the designation from Honda Motor Co.'s Fit compact car.
Sales of the Corolla, which also comes in a station wagon and hatchback versions, were 9,426 units, the Japan Automobile Dealers Association said in a release today. Toyota also had the second-place spot with the Vitz compact car. Honda's Fit fell to sixth place, the auto group said.
Japanese consumers are opting for smaller, more fuel- efficient vehicles partly because of rising fuel prices, the dealers group said. Toyota last month sold six out of the 10 best-selling models in Japan, the world's second-biggest auto market.
Japan's vehicle sales excluding minicars declined for a seventh straight month, falling 0.5 percent to 259,753 units in January from the same month in 2005, the auto group said last week.
Nissan, the country's second biggest automaker, had three models ranked in the top ten. The company's sales began to fall in October after the effect of six new models released between September 2004 and January 2005 began to tail off. Nissan on Dec. 21 released the Bluebird Sylphy sedan.
The auto dealers group's sales ranking excludes the sales of minicars, powered with 0.66-liter engines or smaller.
Toyota shares fell 0.3 percent to 6,070 yen at the 11 a.m. lunch break on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. Honda shares fell 0.4 percent to 6,770 yen. Nissan's shares were unchanged at 1,295 yen."
I remember when the Fit became the best-selling car in Japan for CY2002. Not only was it the first time a Honda had ever held that title, but it was also the first time in 33 consecutive years that the Corolla did not hold that position.
Interesting that the Corolla (with 3 body styles) and the Fit are still in a sales struggle, despite the Fit's age.
I just have to laugh at it. I don’t mean to sound like a stick in the mud, but they appear to have their marketing campaign squarely aimed at 18 year olds. This is a completely different marketing philosophy than they use in the rest of the world with the Jazz & Fit. It’s funny but when you look at other Honda websites around the world (Australia, UK, Ireland, Japan etc) the Jazz/Fit is used as a family car (as evidenced by Australia, UK, Ireland, Japan etc websites). Indeed I ran across an Australian family at the Houston auto show that had owned a Jazz for a few years in Australia. They were a Family of 5 who were very happy with the Jazz as a primary car. In the US however we have gotten so brainwashed that if you have more than 2 people in a car you NEED a Ford Excursion or something larger. American Honda knows this about us, and apparently feels that in the US the only way this car will succeed is to sell it as a 1st time buyers/ kids car. Hence the gaudy trim on the sport model, and the 1st grade art class website with stickers. The European Jazz is a more conservative looking car. Try as they may to make this a 18 year old’s car, as I said before American Honda is going to be very surprised at the broad demographic that ends up buying the Fit.
Heck, in one of the examples, they show it being placed on the basket of a child's bicycle. Even if I was 18, I'd be insulted. The ads target 8 year olds, if you ask me.
"The Fit is Go!" - what in the heck does that mean? I even asked my neices and nephews what it meant (since they're squarely in the age bracket this is directed towards), and they said it "sounded like some lame Japanese commercial, that they translated directly to English, and forgot to normalize the phrase."
Now, if the teens and early twenties think it's stupid... they REALLY need to go back to the drawing board on how they're marketing this car.
http://www.scion.com
It's one of the few manufacturer's websites with a "Culture" dropdown. That said, the Fit site, by comparison, seems to be aimed at 15-year olds. Does anyone older than 15 want stickers?
I'm in my mid-20s and I find it insulting. Atrocious, really. When people ask about the car I will be purchasing in the near future, I either have to send them to hondanews.com, world.honda.com, or the Canadian website. It's too embarrasing to send them to the US site.
I pray that Honda does not keep this up when the real site comes up.
By the way, here is the target demographic for the European Jazz:
"Key target customers are 20-35 year old males and females without children, particularly early adopters, who are perhaps buying their first car and perhaps their first Honda; young families aged 30-40; and empty nester males aged 55 plus who may well have previously owned a Honda."
-2002 Press Release
From the sound of the people on this forum including myself, most of us fit into these categories. Why doesn't American Honda just use these?
Am I buying a $13,000 motor vehicle, or a $13 toy?
As someone in their late-20's, I felt Scion's site was at least a little more serious. It's clearly geared toward more of the "tuner" / college sort of crowd, but the Fit site is cartoon-like.
...Not to mention "The Fit is Go!" tagline isn't an English phrase, but rather, sounds like some sort of anime/Japanese-animation slogan, or something that was mistranslated.
The idea always was to take on Scion, thus the emphasis on the Sport, the body kit, the fog lights... the attempt to be "hip."
"The Fit comes in seven tasty flavors" ... yeah.
I'd be inclined to say it's just the marketing, and that the car's the same car, but it's all connected. Based on the position Honda chose for this car, the emphasis is on a "hip" look, "paddle shifters," etc. rather than an economical vehicle. Thus, the car we're getting has a features and benefits pacakage consciously chosen to appeal more to the younger audience.
I'll bet that within 2-years, as Fit proves it mettle beyond the high school/"My First Car" segment, it will be repositioned as a family car.
In the meantime, I'll continue to point family, friends, and co-workers to the better site at www.honda.ca/fit
Look at the bright side - if Honda markets the cars as dinky toys, then maybe they will come with a price to match!
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Rgds...Heretic
$14,000 for a 4 door - that should make things interesting!
Models fit for the road
Rgds...Heretic
That's around $12,000 American for the stripped base DX model for sale only in Canada.
For the differences, see:
smlcarguy, "2006 Honda Fit (Jazz)" #1481, 12 Jan 2006 7:39 am
The Yaris 4 door is about $900CDN more ($765US).
http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/societyoffit/index.aspx
The message should be that the Fit drives like the Base Mini Cooper, but for thousands less. Or something simmilar. Don't even try to market it as a budget car when it's not. Market it as a smaller Civic.
Oh - and ditch the Orange for Yellow.
It worked with the Element, Now Honda Utilizes Students to Help Launch the Fit
Orinda, Calif. – November 1, 2005 - EdVenture Partners, a leading marketing education consulting company, reintroduces Honda to the value-add of the innovative peer-to-peer marketing model. In 2003, Honda began its relationship with EdVenture Partners by sponsoring a Marketing Internship program on 30 college campuses. The Honda Element College Program was such a success that Honda has now come back to EdVenture Partners and is sponsoring a Research Program as well as a new Marketing Internship Program. The Honda Research Program and the Honda Fit Marketing Challenge are both geared towards increasing Gen Y awareness of the all-new, “metro-funky” Honda Fit. During the fall 2005 semester, students will implement research methodologies such as interviewing, focus groups, and surveys to collect data, analyze, report, and present their findings to the client. Then, during the spring 2006 semester, more students will implement their own creative marketing campaign to assist Honda in targeting the Gen Y market and introducing them to the new Honda Fit.
For more information on EdVenture Partners, please visit http://www.edventurepartners.com
:sick:
"metro-funky"? Generation Y?
Is that the only market these companies think they have in the US in terms of small cars?????
Honda. I am insulted and offended.
Now we really know who to blame for the unprofessional, insulting, and off-base Fit marketing!
makes me wonder how honda became so successful without consulting the readers of this forum?
Honda is a global company, and they understand cultural differences. Their marketing shows that they think that the Fit will mainly sell as a young 1st time buyer’s car. The problem with that thinking is that they really didn’t design a kid’s car with the Fit. This car was designed for other markets in the world in a category known as “supermini”. Think of it as a small minivan, packed with space and innovation. So even when Honda brings this to the US and slaps some gaudy trim on it, and hires Barney the dinosaur as it’s ad firm, it is still a supermini Honda Jazz.
I predict that after the first year of this car when the word gets out about how affordable, reliable, and feature packed the Fit is, that the marketing of this car will change to meet the unexpectedly broad demographic that actually purchases it.
It’s kind of like putting glasses on Clark Kent; he’s still obviously Superman!
We need to estimate the part costs and labor costs, and let's assume a dealer installs it all, or some other reasonable assumption (you might even want to add tax, though let's leave out opportunity cost of the car being in the shop:) ).
- For the sake of discussion let's assume the Sport is a * $2,000 * premium over the Base (this has been kicked around - are there any Honda precedents for it? This will be settled someday, hopefully soon, but the more accurate we can estimate, the better the decision logic).
From the HondaNews specifications page, I've pasted what appear to be the only elements the Sport adds:
(1) Security system with remote entry
Is this $200-400, installed?
(2) Fog Lights
I was surprised to learn this might be $600-800
See: http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=487239&page_number=1
(3) Cruise Control with Illuminated Steering Wheel-Mounted Controls
No idea here either: $300-500?
(4) Perforated Leather-Wrapped Steering Wheel
$10-15 at Autozone
(5) STEREO:
- 160-Watt AM/FM/CD Audio System with 6 Speakers
(+40 watt, +2 speakers over base)
- MP3 Aux in Jack/Capability
This one is really intriguing as I'm uncertain about the Base's aux. input capabilities. Replacing the stereo may be an impossibility due to the other car controls being part of the same panel. At the very least, I think the Honda accessory to integrate the ipod goes for $200-300.
NOVELTY ITEMS
(6) Spoilers
No idea... (not interested in these, but some are. Let's say it makes the car look better. Hey, it's a flat surface to put my STICKERS on right?). Figure it's metal, must be pretty expensive.
(7) Steering Wheel-Mounted Paddle Shifters [5AT only]
Personally I see no value in this, but what's the cost to Honda? $100-200? Much more?
===
I think putting together the "value" of the package based on various benchmarks can help us to assess the pricing differential (the "value") when pricing info comes out, and possibly to negotiate for those of us who will have that opportunity. I suspect various car sites and forums have established package values like this for more well-known/available vehicles, though I'm not familiar with them.
My logic is, if I'm going to want to upgrade the stereo, would prefer cruise control, and think fog lights might be useful but not a preference, the Sport might be worth considering IF the cost to add 2,3,or 4 of these items alone = the Sport package differential, and assuming that differential is only $1,500-$2,000.
My gut reaction like many of you is "Damn them, they gave us 2 choices, and I'm paying for the spoilers and toys" - but it could be that those elements are "free" if you consider the cost to add the elements you want. Everyone's decision would be different.
Aside:
At least in Europe, the Sport model has a different engine.
That reminded me, one reason the Jazz has won so many awards is the CVT, which is more efficient. The fuel economy debate has faded a bit, but I think it's not only due to "safety weight," but the change in engines.
0.2 inch lower, but 1.3 inches longer and 1.5 inches wider. Not to mention added weight
2006 Civic is actually shorter than the older Civic. As is the case with the new RL, and TL. In case of TL, that car shrunk in MY1999 itself.
TSX is about the same size (interior) as the Vigor/first generation TL, but smaller on the outside.
In case of Accord, Honda had to go midsize from compact class to be able to compete. Or else the sales would have sunk. Note that the best sales in Accord came after it grew the most... 1998-2002.
And in case of Odyssey, growth was mandatory. The Japanese/European spec wasn't working here. The second generation changed all that.
1.3 LX (5MT or CVT)
1.5 LX (5MT or CVT-7)
1.5 EX (5MT or CVT-7)
Equip the two LX models like the current base. For the EX, give it everything the Fit Sport has, except for the body kit and spoiler, and throw on the nice, luxurious alloys from the European Jazz SE.
Offer the "Sport kit" as an option that can be installed on all three trim lines. Make the price a bit cheaper for the EX (since it already comes with alloys) and switch the Euro SE alloys with the Sport alloys.
However, I am pretty happy about the current Fit (LX-level) packaging, since you really are just paying for the toys with the Sport model, not things like A/C and power accessories as well.
Speaking of which, Honda factory stereos are junk. The 160W 6 speaker nonsense.. An aftermarket $500 insall with a nice Kenwood/Apline setup would sound 3x better and save you money. And it would have an aux jack and play mp3 cds.
Spoilers and so on - ick more plastic to get destroyed. Alloys? Aftermarket rims are vastly better and less expensive.
On the subject of marketing, it's and old-school tactic that's rarely employed in Japan. The idea of older, upper-class refinement. Zero flash - give the car the image of being a micro Mercedes or as close to it as possible(I'd have made leather an option, most definately).
It's not "Gen Y" - to be sure, but it would sell more cars. And, no Honda, Gen Y not only loathes that term, but they want cars that are wild like the upcoming VW 3 wheel roadster. They want Mini-like customization at the least, as well. The Fit is too plain to catch on, so it's wasted money.
Think outside of the box. Put leather in it ASAP as an option and do what Mini did - make it appeal to a wealthier, yet still frugal crowd. Trust me - you'll feel like fools and not be able to shake the image when Audi and Mercedes and Volvo decide to bring in their small cars.
Which would you rather be seem as? "Gen Y" Scion/Hyundai budget crap or a budget Volvo/Audi alternative?
As for the marketing comment:
http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
#12: One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.
Now, that's half in jest - but the point is clear. Often marketing types miss the most basic things because they don't just ask normal people instead. If you ever actually sit in on a marketing meeting, and by God you'll wish you hadn't, it's full of five main types of people:
1:The Resume Padder. Not a yes-man, but interested in his own resume and next job. Comes up with amazing sounding ideas but they are all junk he made up in his head while out drinking with his buddies.
2:The Yes-Man. We all know this type. Acts like an individual, but it's just for show. Falls into line when it comes time to make a vote or the boss so much as flinches. They never think outside the box. Usually trying to get into a management position.
3:The Groupthinker. No brain in their head. Wants the meeting to secretly be over. Thinks about Golf/sex/politics/etc a lot. Lets others come up with ideas first.
4:The Statistics Junkie. Makes wonderful Powerpoint presentations what always paint the rosiest picture possible. Actually, has very little if any self-generated data, though, once you dig a bit deeper.
5:The Weasel/Beancounter. Always trying to squeese more out of nothing.
If they got out and actually asked people what they wanted instead of wasting time in their own insulated worlds, they might come up with some real data instead of just doing what everyone else is doing, because "it's a trend" or "it's what the competition is doing" or "that's the demographic."
Seriously - it takes less than a minute to decide to copy the others. You don't even need more than one meeting for that, or a marketing department. Honda needs to get more creative and think outside the box on this one.
NOT plekto - check the poster :surprise:
I know a lot of people are guilty of the "It is smaller it should be a lot cheaper thinkging". But in reality the raw material cost is not the bulk of the cost. If you have two 4 cylinder engine of the same "refinement" it cost about the same to make no matter if it is a big 4 cylinder or a small 4 cylinder.
So the marketing to first time buyers is both good and bad. The good is that we get a Fit and the price is pretty good for what you get. If it was marketed for 30+s it would have a higher profit margin and would most likely cost more. With most American's way of thinking they would just buy the Civic and not the Fit if the price of the Fit was close to that of the Civic. That is why we did not get the Fit in the first place.
The bad is they are building it to attract young buyers. They put the biggest engine they can at the expense of mileage. The first thing my teenage son looks at on the stickers when looking at cars is horse power. He would always pick the 1.5 over a smaller engine. So we get no high mileage version. We get packages with "toys" on them.
So remember old farts (anyone over 30 like me)Honda wants to sell the car to young first time buyers. They are not making a ton of money off this car. They would rather you buy a Ridgeline or something else Honda. The TV adds will be on MTV and not Wallstreet Week. If old farts complain about glowing lights in the cup holders they might make them standard. So don't look at Honda's lowest profit margin gift horse in the mouth. Otherwise Honda will only build it in orange with yellow tinted windows, purple lights all around and a radio that will only play rap or whatever kids listen to these days. Then they will not have to worry that kids will see gramps driving the car they thought was cool.
My humblest apologies to you.
If there was no Fit, then there'd be no new Honda in my driveway, come April. I'm in the market for a small four-door hatchback, and if Honda didn't have one, then I'd buy something from another manufacturer. The Fit just happens to fit my needs, in my case.
Let us see if & when that happens.
What you're asking for is take VW-like route... but we all know where VW has been lately.
Fit is to serve a purpose, and I bet it will excel in it. 50K units per year? Well, that will be just a start. Give it couple of years.
The mark of a true gentleman - but none needed!
Marketing types in the car business are notorious for these kinds of "targeting" errors. Honda is by no means alone. In any case, like a lot of folks in this forum, my car preferences are distinctly "non-American", so I know the marketing people don't even see me on their radar screens. I prefer small over big, hatches over trunks, lower fuel consumption over more power, and efficiency above all. Let's give Honda credit for finally getting the car here, even if they're probably wrong, AGAIN, as to who will actually be plunking down hard cash to drive it off the lot.