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I would only add: the ability to swallow most everyday stuff the average person needs to haul. That's for those of us with a practical bent. I'm not looking to tune a Fit, I'm looking at it for a versatile, everyday car that's fun to drive.
I also expect the ever-rising cost of fuel will cause Honda to shift it's marketing to something more like the Fit on the Honda Japan site. It appears (I don't read Japanese) to be aimed at singles, couples, families and seems to emphasize versatility above all.
http://www.honda.co.jp/Fit/
The practicality and fuel-efficiency will win out when gas is $3.99/Gal.
I must be Japanese. Honda has a whole site for us 'Fit for the dogs' people in Japan.
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Well, that's VW. Honda makes cars that are reliable, so it's not far off the mark to position it exactly as a half-sized Accord, IMO.
I wonder how the Fit will affect the Insight market, particularly used. Insights have held value better recently since gas went up, for obvious reasons (boy did they depreciate hard in the early days!). But will people still bite on a $16k used Insight w/50k miles when a new Fit can be bought for as little as $13-14K?
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
hauling 800 pounds of sunday newspapers around town once a week, that last one is mine, even more room in my geo metro than that insight
I have seen a few turbo insight's on ebay and such, that's kinda cool, decent performance with phenominal mileage, sweet
This "marketing" reminds of the Neon "HI" ads when it first came out. Its all eye candy and no substance to back it up which is why now when I see a Neon, I think "a tired old rental car".
Of course the Honda Fit is not a Neon so Honda did not have to go that route.
whats my point? i dunno, just ranting! my other car right now is a 93 civic, i bought it to save by not having to make payments, got rid of a nice passat for it. and when the fit, yaris and maybe versa come out, i'm gonna try them all before i buy. but the 5 speed auto with paddle shifters puts the fit in front for me right now!
I don't know how the ultimate sales of the Element stacked up against Honda's expectations. Like Backy, it is not a car I need or want. The Fit, on the other hand, has a lot of appeal, though like others on this board, I am not happy about the need to go to the Sport to get cruise control. It is the only reason I would need or want anything but the base car. While this would be a second car for us, I want any car of ours to be capable of comfortable long-distance travel, and from experience, that means cruise is a necessity.
Just saw the Chicago intro of the '07 Hyundai Accent 3-door - the SE version makes me sit up and take notice. And the Versa....lots of good news in this segment for the first time in decades.
Plus the Element is ugly, and a Box, not great on Gas, ETC.
BTW, average age of a typical Element buyer, I saw a while ago, was 43... a year younger than average age of a typical car buyer in America, same as Matrix, and a year younger than Corolla's.
I don't expect many 18-24 year olds to go buy a new $18K vehicle. Some might... and a few thru their parents, but there is also that practicality appeal that helps vehicles like Element get some look from older adults.
Fit, is a different case. I don't expect 18-24 year olds looking at it either... but it should do well appealing to sub-30 age group. This would be Honda's second offering after Civic Coupe (not sedan) that is likely to hit the target with sub-30 age group.
I don't get why Honda is marketing the Fit like a toy rather than a serious all-around car recognizing its merits the last 5 years.
You mean Honda should once again try to appeal to 50+ year olds who want more practicality and less fun?
No, but there is a difference between the 10-15 year old marketing range and 50+ year olds. When the Element came out, it was a brand new model that was designed for North America. They didn't really know what direction it could go in. However, the Fit has been around in almost every country Honda sells cars in. Now, each country is different, but seeing that every other region has taken a more serious approach to Fit/Jazz marketing, it seems kind of silly to go with the "toy store" look in the US.
Look at Canada's website.
http://www.honda.ca/fit/
It is able to give an atmosphere of a fun, versatile car, but at the same time not be silly and childish. It catches the eye with bright colors, and descriptive writing, but no need for Pac-man monsters, stickers for the bike, and weird wording.
And the demographics in Canda are identical to the U.S. The two countries, other than size, are pretty homogenous overall. Same stores, same cars, same phones(I don't have to dial international numbers to call Canada, for instance), same food, same...
Marketing it as a college-student car - not going to work. College students as a rule buy used anyways. Marketing it as a small, safe, fun car for those of use who have outgrown SUVs and large sedans - BINGO!
Plus, given the level of options, all Honda owuld have to do is put a couple of extra features on it, leather, and a supercharger - and they could sell it as the entry level Accura. I'd buy one in a second with a sunroof, leather, tighter suspension, a 150HP engine, an an Accura badge for $20K.
And, yes, the Mercedes B-Class and Audi and Volvo smaller cars are coming as well. The Fit is much MUCH better than the competition in quality and features and they should sell it UP instead of selling it as an econobox.
I do wonder if it relates to the very unique approach of that EdVenture Partners company "let's have college students design the campaign." I *think* that relates only to on-campus marketing of the Fit, building viral awareness at their school. Here's a syllabus at Penn's Wharton school that offers some more detail on the "Honda Fit Marketing Challenge" -
http://marketing.wharton.upenn.edu/programs/syllabus-pdf/Spring2006/MKTG%20235-0- 2-Williams-Spring2006.pdf
We could go on and on, but I just think it's comical, and as some others have noted, almost "insulting" to a mature adult who has viewed themselves as a Honda Fit evangelist, champion, and early adopter. I have introduced this vehicle to at least 50 family and friends, and no doubt they have in turn told more about it. But, the marketing could turn off a fair percentage of that audience.
Sure, the Scion site - and the whole brand - is a bit too far to the "hip" end of the spectrum for me, but I recognize that, and I can at least comfortably gather information about the brand and its products.
The Fit site just strikes me as not serious - but maybe that will change once the car is available, pricing is available, and it's actually rolled out.
I think it's that many of us want to see the Fit succeed, grow, and evolve, because we like its core value proposition and recognize how unique it is - but we feel Honda has made a grave strategic error in mispositioning it (at least to date) as a vehicle for tweens to aspire to. Like I've said, I don't doubt that can or will change over time.
I'm still buying the car, but for what it's worth, scratching my head on the marketing.
Bad idea. Honda needs something to offer DOWN not UP. There is no need to crowd market offerings (like Nissan ended up doing with upper trims of Altima, Maxima and G35). Nothing bad about offering refinement at a lower cost.
Saleswise, if Honda is targeting *only* 50K units of Fit in the first year... well thats really low, probably one car per week from each dealership.
Look at VW, they don’t seem to be interested in sub-20 range anymore. A good reason (besides many others) I wouldn’t even look at them.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
1. I want to only pay $13-14k for this little gem.
2. I want economy. Honda has done the best out of all the current and future (that we know of) subcompacts in creating what I think is probably the best mix of quality, features, and price.
3. The Fit is not selling as an econobox. The Chevrolet Aveo and the Toyota Yaris hatchback are "econoboxes". Toyota must truly believe that people who want a small hatchback are hopelessly cheap to package it the way they are. Not to steal Honda's words, but the Fit is really one of the "premium entry-levels" in the non-luxury/specialty subcompact class.
4. There have been two gaping holes in Honda's lineup for quite sometime now. The first is the need for an inexpensive small car. By that, I don't mean a Civic DX with practically no standard features. I mean a properly equipped quality car that can be had for under $15k. Second is the need for a hatchback or wagon.
There is currently no need to sell it as a $20 000 Acura. Maybe in a few years, a while after the 2nd generation Fit has been introduced, and the Benz A-class is taking off, it might be a good idea to bring a small Acura car, but not now.
While I do see your point for an Acura subcompact (eventually), the need is much greater for Honda right now.
3. The Fit is not selling as an econobox. Not to steal Honda's words, but the Fit is really one of the "premium entry-levels" in the non-luxury/specialty subcompact class."
Eh...the Civic still seems to be marketed as entry-level...I'll, of course, check out the Fit when they hit dealers, but I find it hard to believe that anyone will offer anything premium for less than $15K. Premium, to me, means more than power options and a "magic seat." I can't believe the materials quality will be much improved over comparably priced cars, including the Yaris. I, however, will be at the dealer to see if I am wrong soon enough.
Add sunroof, add leather, add an optional more powerful engine, like on the Mini. If you want the basic model - presto - 13-14K. If you want the sporty version, get the optional suspension and engine upgrade(simmilar to how they did with the Del Sol), and if you want the LX model, it's $16-20K and feels like a half-sized E Class. Leather, wood, automatic climate, sunroof, homelink, navi, whatever else they can cram in it.
Given that the B Class and others will be in the 25K range, this would be a good way to repackage it. In a few years, of course. But if they market it as only an entry level econobox, how will they possibly even have the chance to do what Mini has?
Seriously. Name me one small car under 18K that you can get leather and the other luxury goodies on even as an option other than the Mini. Sentra? Bzzt. Civic? Well, maybe, but it's really a midsized car now, so it hardly qualifies. We want a small car. We want a frugal car. But we want it to feel like a luxury car. And not cost more than $18K.
As it is... Traction control? ABS? Leather? How come jsut because it's SMALL, reguardless of price, it's 99% of the time a matter of being forced to live with a stripped-down vehicle? Oh - sorry - small car. Can't have the latest features. But we've got some alloys and body kit for you!.
The Volvo 3 series and B-Class are going to eat Honda alive if they insist on marketing the Fit the way they currently are.
P.S. I fail to see why Honda doesn't at least OFFER the sunroof and leather as options. I'd honestly pay the money for the leather interior. Others would like the sunroof.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
While we’re at it, why wouldn’t you expect HID, heated seats, navigation system etc in a Fit, and sell it for $22K? Well, you could, but nobody would be buying it. It helps to be practical, and sensible.
For a premium hatchback, Honda would be better served with another car (perhaps based off Civic Hatchback) Fit is NOT meant to be that. Take it for what it is, a benchmark economy hatchback.
The Volvo 3 series and B-Class are going to eat Honda alive
Let us talk about this when those cannibals arrive.
The thing is, Honda should also sell the LX model like they do in Japan, with all the goodies like leather and sunroof. IF you want to spend $17K, well, you get the thing in mini-luxuty-mode.
See, *CHINA* can get leather and we don't. What gives?
BUT, at 50K units/year sales volume, Fit wouldn’t be selling in “Honda volume”, but still far better than Volvo and MB’s dreaded economy cars will. That’s a bet!
BTW, the question is how Volvo will be that Volvo?
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There's a simple solution to high efficiency economical transportation. It's called "small, lightweight cars with four cylinders." Prime examples are the new Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris and Nissan Versa.
I like the Prius but one of the above will be several thousand less to buy. And 40mpg highway isn't too shabby.
And putting an electric motor with a V6...like the RX400 and Highlander? What's up with that? That's more about performance than economy. Kudos to the Escape and the new hybrid Saturn Vue for focusing on economy.
BTW, the question is how Volvo will be that Volvo?
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Don't get me started. Volvo was an awesome company once. At least Ford is letting them mostly do their own thing. Every time I see what GM is doing to Saab, it makes me ill. Just so sad to see such a great company getting gutted a piece of plastic here and a lack of a feature there.
The question, though, is why can't we just do what Mini has allowed us and get extra options like the sunroof and leather and so on if we order from the factory directly, and as a custom-only item?(simmilar to say, the cooperworks sport suspension on the Cooper, which I don't see and of them having, yet it's available)
I'd wait a month to get one with leather shipped over.
Honda tends to add follow the moral out of the short story about the goose that laid golden eggs. Besides, if Honda wanted to add a premium hatchback, it would emphasize on RSX, or even bring the Euro Civic hatchback.
I hope to not turn this into hybrid versus non-hybrid debate, but just because one uses an I-4 against another that uses V6, doesn’t make for a greater focus on fuel economy. Do we even know what Saturn Vue Hybrid’s fuel economy would be like (other than that it being a 15-20% improvement over non-hybrid version)?
Now, a car like Insight was meant to provide an insight into the possibilities of what hybrids could do. With that in mind, I think Fit would be a great alternative for Honda to offer a low cost hybrid, and retire Insight from the lineup. If I could take decisions for Honda, I would take the base Fit (US), and throw in IMA, with couple of additional features and nicely stitched seats for $17K. It is certainly possible!
AS for all those who want to see a luxry-outfitted Fit, just look to the Mazda3 for the reason they didn't offer this configuration. HIDs and leather are freely available as options on the 'S'. Do dealers order them that way? No, never. Why? No-one wants to spend $22 grand (sticker) on a Mazda3. Overall, those options have sold in such miniscule proprotion to the total sales that I believe Mazda is contemplating dropping them.
By the same token, I suspect so few would want the Fit equipped that way that it wouldn't be worth Honda's investment. More's the pity though.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rather than focusing on a hybrid version, which would be more effective in larger vehicles, Honda should introduce the 1.3i i-DSI to the US market. It won't offer as high mileage as a hybrid, but it would be very feasible, and it would give Fit fans an "HF" version.
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It certainly does. A 4cyl hybrid results in better fuel economy than a V6 hybrid. A V6 hybrid is redundant. Its economy is little if any better than a conventional 4cyl. It does improve on the economy and performance of a straight V6. At greater expense, added weight and increased complexity.
I think in the near future, there will be two camps...the hybrid camp and the diesel camp. With cleaner diesel fuel coming next year, I'm eager to see what the manufacturers do. Put a diesel in the Fit, increase the mpg by 20% and the torque by 50%.
When they do (rarely) have a sale what do they offer. And what about the rates they charge??
I've long been proponent of Jazz/Fit Hybrid to replace Insight (a smaller, less practical car, with an aging IMA set up).
twain
A 4cyl hybrid results in better fuel economy than a V6 hybrid. A V6 hybrid is redundant.
This will be my last contribution to this discussion under this thread. If you feel like it, you could create a separate thread for it and invite me over. I will simply add here that 2 mpg isn't a huge deal. Your idea of redundancy can be applied to four cylinders too.
Anyway, no time in near future, do I expect to see V6 in a Fit.
Given that Honda will very soon do a full model change for the Fit, I expect that they will switch to all-new engines for the second-generation car. My guess is that the new engine will be a 1.5-liter I-4 engine using the same SOHC i-VTEC valvetrain used on the R18 engine in the 2006 Civic; it will likely be rated at 115-120 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) and get truly 33 mpg city, 38 mpg highway based on the far more stringent 2008 EPA fuel mileage tests.
Also, don't be surprised that Honda will introduce a new, improved CVT automatic for the new Fit, one that that withstands the rigors of American-style driving.
The Fit should be a really neat car, which I believe will sell well. Expect to pay MSRP for a while.
It's not news to anyone (or at least I thought it wasn't) that the Fit has been around since June of 2001 in Japan. 3 more years of that model would put it around 8 years old when it comes time for a redesign. The Fit is a great, competitive car, but let's face it, it won't last that long.
The US is receiving the tail end of a generation that has been around for 4 1/2 years already. Honda will most likely introduce the 2nd generation Fit in June (or at least the summer) of CY2007 for the Japanese market. Other markets will follow, but it should be only a period of months before the entire world has the new model. Unless Honda has some unusual plan to produce 2 generations of the Fit at the same time, you can expect only one model year for this generation Fit in the United States and Canada.
:confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
Uhhhh show me where Honda has DUMPED a single year model on the U.S. market before?????
http://myfit.org/2006-autoshow.htm
They haven't, but the reason Honda rushed to get the Fit over to the US is because of the growing market for cheaper cars, and with the Civic moving upmarket, Honda needed something to fill the gap.
The Koreans have had cheap cars for years, and now with the Yaris and Versa, Honda could not afford to be left out. That's about 60-65k sales from April until the 2nd generation Fit is expected to debut. That's not a huge amount in comparison to the total sales, or even the Accord and Civic, but it's still lost customers.
It's not unheard of for Honda to give a region a car for only one year. The Logo (Jazz predecessor) in the UK is an example. It was there for only one year (2000-2001).
Uhhhh show me where Honda has DUMPED a 5 year old model on the U.S. market before?????
:confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
That would never happen, right?
That is the reason why American Honda Motors is importing the car directly from Japan for now. Because Honda will likely do the full model change in Summer 2007, this will give the Honda assembly lines in North America time to re-tool for produce the 2nd-generation model here in North America, probably in Fall 2007 as 2008 models.
There have been two major MMCs (minor model changes) that occured in Japan, one of which happened just recently. There has been one in Europe that happened in 2004. However, even though they were MMCs, they did not amount to much. The difference between a MMC -what you saw- and a FMC (full model change) is that the FMC involves a complete redesign of the car...for example the 2005 vs. 2006 Civic. An MMC usually includes minor things like new wheel designs, taillights, color choices, possibly new bumpers, and the occasional boost in engine power. The car itself is the same, just refreshed.
The US is getting the FIRST generation Honda Fit. The car itself is basically the same thing it has been since 2001, save for a few cosmetic and mechanical changes.
Honda will be introducing the next (SECOND) generation Fit sometime next year. The current debate is when the US will actually see the 2nd generation.