Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Did you get a great deal? Let us know in the Values & Prices Paid section!
Meet your fellow owners in our Owners Clubs

New CR-V, cold weather, runs rich, gas in oil, multiple complaints

silvercliffsilvercliff Posts: 3
edited March 2018 in Honda
Gas is mixing in the oil of our new 2017 Honda CR-V. The 1.5 liter engine does not warm up sufficiently in cold weather, runs rich, and leaves un-combusted gas in the oil. This triggers engine warning lights and requires frequent oil changes. Engine performance and drivability suffer. This problem is also being reported on social media by other Honda CR-V owners who drive in colder climates. We are concerned that it is causing long term damage to the engine of our new vehicle. I caution prospective buyers to postpone the purchase of a 2017 or newer Honda CR-V with the 1.5 liter engine until Honda solves to this problem. The fifth generation CR-V is an excellent car in many respects, but this is a major problem. I cannot recommend the car, particularly to those who drive in colder climates, until a fix is found.

Reuters reported in February that Honda has announced a recall of 350,000 CR-V's in China for what appears to be a similar issue.

We've driven our car for about six months, and it has less than 2,000 miles on it. We typically use the car for short drives within the city. When using the car we would occasionally notice a fuel odor around the exterior of the vehicle and sometimes inside. One day, in November, while driving the car, most of the warning lights on the dashboard lit up. We took the car to the dealer, where it remained for over two weeks as they worked to determine a cause and fix. A field rep from Honda was sent out to the dealer to try to assist. Sensors and fuel injectors were replaced. The oil and filter was changed. At this time our engine had less than 1100 miles on it.

These repairs did not correct the problem. In mid-January the engine warning lights were triggered again. Our dealer noted the smell of gas in our oil and once again changed the oil and filter. We had less than 1500 miles on the car for this service.

I again noticed fuel odors driving the vehicle this week, and plan to take it to the dealer again to see if another oil and filter change is required. We've driven the car about 300 miles since the last oil change.

Honda does not appear to have a solution to this problem. The oil and filter changes are a bandaid, and long term damage may be occurring to our engine. I have contacted Honda customer service to express our concern. They suggested that we continue to monitor their website for future recall or service bulletins. They did not provide us with a case number for our complaint going forward.

Honda may have a major problem on its hands with the 1.5 liter engine. Know this before you buy.
«134

Comments

  • billosterbilloster Posts: 1
    edited March 2018
    I am experiencing this problem as well. My 2017 CR-V 1.5L has just over 12000k on it and there was lots of gas in the oil. Dealer put me into a rental and still has it in the shop. I filed a case with Honda Canada so we’ll see what happens now.... I’m told by the dealer that it could be a while. There is damage to my engine as a result and they are replacing the cylinder head but I’m sure if I drive the vehicle after this, it’s going to keep happening. Honda needs to address this issue quickly and offer extended engine warranties to all affected. 
  • albert72albert72 Posts: 180
    Thank you for both of you posting this. CRV was on my short list as it drove very well and has a lot of luxury features but now it is off my list. Here is a link to the CRV owners club where I did additional research. I was also kicking around a 2018 Accord but it too has the 1.5L Turbo engine. Usually Honda is very adept at resolving issues but this one seems pretty complex and Honda seems to suffer from increasing engineering problems the last few years.

    http://www.crvownersclub.com/forums/14-problems-issues/170193-potential-major-issue-2017-cr-v-gasoline-gets-into-engine-oil-tank-2.html

  • makmak63makmak63 Posts: 4
    Gas is also mixing in the oil of my 2017 CRV with 1.5 Turbo. I purchased vehicle March 2017 without much fanfare. I live in MN so the weather starts getting chilly in October. First problem was in November, very strong fuel/rotten egg smell from exhaust after shutdown. This went on approximately two weeks depending how cold it was. My MPG was only 19-20, however, my work is only a couple miles each way. The first hard fail was about 500 miles after initial gas smell. Travelling at 40 MPH when it started sputtering white exhaust and losing power. I barely limped home and called roadside assist.
    Dealer had vehicle a few days. They changed oil and explained the oil/gas mixture in crankcase. They could not duplicate problem. I picked up and drove as normal. Same circumstances late December 2017. This time, in addition to oil change, they changed fuel injectors and an exhaust sensor after having the vehicle 6-7 days.
    I thought for sure this was the final fix. Early February I encountered similar smells/problems and called roadside assist for third time because of exhaust error showing up on vehicle dashboard. Dealer kept overnight, this time the dealer GM called me and explained what his tech rep was telling him. He even suggested changing my driving habits to help engine further warm up. This seemed to show they have NO real fix. He even said they might have to buy the vehicle back. Well, here it is March and I'm hearing louder exhaust noises especially backing into my garage? I think it comes and goes with colder weather. Sometimes in MN we get up into the 40's, then return to the teens overnight. I think it's close to failing again. Will I be calling roadside assist again?
    I've owned 4 other Honda's so I really like the brand and quality but I'm losing interest and need to move on. Frankly, I hope it fails again so they might buy it back? Thank god it's a lease. Will update soon.
  • makmak63makmak63 Posts: 4
    Poor city MPG. I own the 2017 Honda CRV 1.5 Turbo. I only have 3800 miles so far. My work is only a couple miles each way. The MPG is only registering 19. Is there any other owners with low MPG? I previously drove a 2010 Accord with the 2.4 liter and averaged 24 MPG city driving. Honda touted 25-26 MPG with the 1.5 Turbo. I know the vehicle weight and or the CVT tranny might be coming into play here? What is going on with Honda Motors? I think the quality has taken a nose dive. Even Consumer Reports has reported them to be slipping in reliability. I have also been reading the newly redesigned Accord is selling poorly. Is this because of the new engines? Please comment if there is anyone else with similar issues, thanks.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,132
    At least in the old days, Honda engines were very tight. So it really took 10-15K before you knew the real typical mileage. Don't know if that is true today. Of course, if your car is mixing gas elsewhere...
  • The problem with gas in oil is not restricted to northern climes. I live in southern Missouri and am experiencing the same issue with gas in the oil. Because of this issue I am changing my oil about every 3,000 miles in the cooler months to keep damage at bay. A recent trip to my local Honda dealer to discuss the issue was unproductive as they have yet to experience the problem (or admit they have). I have maintained samples of the drained oil for future discussions. My dealer's service department is unaware of a "fix" and was even unaware of the sales hold in China for 1.5 turbo engines. I have researched the techinfo.com/Honda to see if there is anything in the service bulletins suggesting a repair. There is none as of 3/26/2018. I have owned every generation of the CRV and enjoy the 2017. However, I am very disappointed with this issue and Honda's seemingly reluctance to address the issue and effect a fix. I plan to "bug" my local dealer for a few weeks then call Customer Service at Honda to register a complaint. I do understand that gas in oil is somewhat common with direct injection engines but in this instance the amount of gas in the oil is totally unacceptable. Come on Honda fix this!!!!
  • makmak63makmak63 Posts: 4
    I just made a formal complaint to Honda. I'll see if, and when, they have a hard fix to this problem? More updates to follow.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490

    The problem with gas in oil is not restricted to northern climes. I live in southern Missouri and am experiencing the same issue with gas in the oil. Because of this issue I am changing my oil about every 3,000 miles in the cooler months to keep damage at bay. A recent trip to my local Honda dealer to discuss the issue was unproductive as they have yet to experience the problem (or admit they have). I have maintained samples of the drained oil for future discussions. My dealer's service department is unaware of a "fix" and was even unaware of the sales hold in China for 1.5 turbo engines. I have researched the techinfo.com/Honda to see if there is anything in the service bulletins suggesting a repair. There is none as of 3/26/2018. I have owned every generation of the CRV and enjoy the 2017. However, I am very disappointed with this issue and Honda's seemingly reluctance to address the issue and effect a fix. I plan to "bug" my local dealer for a few weeks then call Customer Service at Honda to register a complaint. I do understand that gas in oil is somewhat common with direct injection engines but in this instance the amount of gas in the oil is totally unacceptable. Come on Honda fix this!!!!

    How were you able to determine that there was fuel in the oil?
  • A number of ways in no particular order. The measured level on the dip stick is well above the full line despite be correct at the last oil change. There is no other fluid loss in the CRV to explain the increased level in the oil pan. I use Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic oil in both my CRV and HRV. After 3,700 miles on the CRV oil is black and very thin whilst the HRV after 4,000 miles is still relatively clean and seems similar to new oil. Both use 0W20 Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic oil. Remove the oil cap from both and the HRV smells like Synthetic oil while the CRV smells like a gas can. A sample of the oil submitted for testing determines that the oil is diluted with gas. Granted that some evidence may be subjective but you can't escape the smell of gas or the analysis of the oil. There is additional circumstantial observations to indicate the potential for raw fuel to enter the oil pan. The 2017 CRV is COLD blooded! It takes an inordinate amount of time and miles to register temperature on the temperature gauge. One would expect a richer fuel mixture during the warmup period. One would expect some unburned fuel ending up in the oil. All that said you merely have to wonder why the level in the oil pan increases over time and why when you open the oil cap on the valve cover you are greeted with the same smell as a gas can. I have spoken to my local Honda dealer. They are aware of the complaints but are unaware of a fix. I have opened a case with Honda Customer Care. My conversation with HCC confirmed that they are aware of the issue but at this time are unaware of a "fix". They informed me that a "technical" representative would be contacting me to discuss the issue in greater detail. I await their call.
  • matthismatthis Posts: 1
    I live in northern NY & my 2017 CR-V has fuel in the oil & overfilled oil level. First noticed the smell & overfilled oil level this winter, after a cold snap in early January 2018. Had oil changed which confirmed gas in the oil. Tech first said they had no idea why the level was overfilled. Did some research, found out about the China cold weather recall for this, showed it to the service dept which eventually said they "discovered" it's a common 2017 CR-V problem! Yeah sure they didn't know before. They recommended more frequent oil changes until they figure out the issue?!! Nice to know I'm not the only one experiencing this, I posted my complaint on CarComplaints.com here with all the others: https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/2017/engine/high_oil_level_with_gas_in_oil.shtml
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    If you are showing a marked increase in the oil dip stick level, and you're certain it is fuel, you really should NOT be driving this vehicle at all. There are two consequences to a condition like that, and neither one is good.

    One, obviously, is that the fuel acts as a solvent to wipe the cylinder walls clean of oil.

    Two, the remote possibility of the oil pan blowing up.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,132
    Honda seems to have lost its way a bit mechanically over the past few years. Wonder if they turned the company over to some Ivy League MBA's??? Toyota made that mistake in the mid 2000's, but once it surfaced they replaced the leadership with Toyoda people.
  • Response to Mr_Shiftright. You are correct regarding oil dilution in general. However, fuel blow by on Direct Injection engines is somewhat common and there is documentation that suggests both oil manufactures and engine builders have included this issue in their products such that damage is negated. However, what is occurring with the 1.5 liter engine may far exceed the design specifications of both the oil and engine manufacturer. Until Honda finds and implements a solution I will monitor oil level carefully, change oil frequently, adjust my driving habits to be sure the car is thoroughly warmed up and save my receipts for future action. Based on what I have seen and heard to date, I am sure Honda is abundantly aware of the issue and will find a fix. They clearly have a great deal of potential expensive exposure. I would think they would want to mitigate their exposure as soon as possible
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well if you in fact do have a marked increase in level on your dip stick, I assure you that no amount of engineering is going to compensate for an extra quart of gasoline in your crankcase!
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,089
    When there is fuel getting into the oil on a GDI engine the prime suspect is the high pressure fuel pump. If it has a leak, it will put fuel into the oil. While "Honda" should know about this possibility their techs might not. GDI is still quite new to them and this just might be the only issue each one of them has seen so far with these engines. Manufacturers that have had GDI a lot longer have all dealt with the occasional failed high pressure pump.

    Excess fuel in a cylinder will usually have a corresponding drivability symptom which I have not seen mentioned in the descriptions. That doesn't rule it out, but it does make it less likely.

    One other possible cause that has to be considered is whether or not the engines are being run for a sufficient amount of time to vaporize any fuel condensation that is getting into the oil. Short trips that don't get the oil to full temperature don't allow fuel that does get into the oil to evaporate and be removed by the PCV system. Getting proper PCV flow has been an issue for some manufacturers under specific conditions and that has on occasion allowed for an accumulation of fuel in the oil on some engines.
  • MrShiftright....I agree we have a problem that Honda doesnt seem to be working on..IE no updates anywhere,,,but here in Canada we dont have many option......Dealer wont give us a loaner....rental is out of the ? as I am retired and money is tight....so we have no choice but to drive our CRV.....and the changing of the oil often would be nice,,,but its a big added cost we didnt plan for when we bought this thing......only thing I found is to take a very long HWY drive every week and get the engine at temp for a hour or 2 and its seems to keep the oil at the full or little over......but at 136 a liter of gas doesnt go very far
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,226
    There is a recall in China about this issue
    https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN1FW124-OCABS

    And just the other day at a shop owned by a friend, someone had brought in a CR-V for an oil change and the oil was more like the consistency of coffee and just gushed out. The owner doesn't make anything but short trips and the engine never really gets up to operating temperature very often.

    Edmunds Moderator

    Silver 2012 Nissan Versa Hatchback & White 2019 Nissan Rogue S

    Need some roadside assistance? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Just purchased or leased a vehicle? Write your own vehicle review

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490

    MrShiftright....I agree we have a problem that Honda doesnt seem to be working on..IE no updates anywhere,,,but here in Canada we dont have many option......Dealer wont give us a loaner....rental is out of the ? as I am retired and money is tight....so we have no choice but to drive our CRV.....and the changing of the oil often would be nice,,,but its a big added cost we didnt plan for when we bought this thing......only thing I found is to take a very long HWY drive every week and get the engine at temp for a hour or 2 and its seems to keep the oil at the full or little over......but at 136 a liter of gas doesnt go very far

    Yes, I understand your predicament and it's a difficult one. My point, though, is that although I can't examine the car from way over here, if in fact you are registering say 1 quart above the full mark on your engine oil, and you can smell fuel on the dipstick, you must stop driving the car.

    A small amount of fuel dilution, which might not even be detectable on the dip stick, should burn off once you have the vehicle to operating temperature.

    But if there's lots of fuel in the crankcase, that engine is going to self-destruct.
  • FYI found this in another Honda
    forum still trying to do more research...food for thought
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Interesting that they authorize an oil and filter change to "eliminate" the "symptoms". What about the cause?
  • Have had three calls with Honda Care regarding gas in oil. The last call being 04/10. Gist of the call is that they are aware of the issue, complaints and negative comments. At this point a solution is not at hand. The representative urged me to watch oil level and address any negative changes to local Honda dealer. Has anyone heard of an update to the China issue? Is there a resolution?
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,226

    Interesting that they authorize an oil and filter change to "eliminate" the "symptoms". What about the cause?

    Well sure. Drain the oil that has gas in it and you WON'T have oil with gas in it in the crankcase... at least for a while:)

    At my buddy's shop, they described what they drained as being "like coffee" and said it gushed out like there was 10 quarts. This feels like it's a little beyond a software update.

    Edmunds Moderator

    Silver 2012 Nissan Versa Hatchback & White 2019 Nissan Rogue S

    Need some roadside assistance? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Just purchased or leased a vehicle? Write your own vehicle review

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,089
    As I mentioned above,  the number one suspect on a GDI engine when fuel is getting into the oil is the high pressure fuel pump. If you have a pump with even a tiny leak and combine that with limited driving, ending up with fuel dilution of the engine oil isn't a surprise at all.  

    Have someone connect a scan tool to the PCM and monitor the fuel rail pressure igniton on, engine off. The fuel rail should hold pressure for at least an hour or two. In fact if the engine is hot when they start to watch the pressure it will usually rise. If there is any leak at all with the injectors, the rail pressure will drop rapidly at key off. 

    One of the other symptoms that I was watching for but was not mentioned would be a misfire when the engine is warm, shut off for just a few minutes and then restarted.  A leaking injector would make the cylinder that it is in too rich to fire. But the misfire would only occur until the cylinder cleared itself of excess fuel. The bottom line is if it cannot be proven that the fuel is coming from the injectors,  then by default the high pressure pump becomes the most likely suspect. 
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    The Mazda RX-8 had a big problem with that. Rapid warm engine starts were a bad problem with that car.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,089
    edited April 2018

    The Mazda RX-8 had a big problem with that. Rapid warm engine starts were a bad problem with that car.

    Those things used to come in flooded during the winter and it would quite often take five to ten minutes of cranking with the injectors disabled to clear the fuel enough to get combustion. Used to laugh at the windshield washer injection system on the RX-7s that was supposed to de-ice the apex seals during very cold starts. Mazda had a TSB to disable that system.
  • I made the original post that started this conversation. I really appreciate the comments folks have made here - it's helpful to get your feedback and suggestions. I've used Edmunds a lot over the years to research cars, and have learned a lot from the forums. I think it's important to let others know when you find yourself with a problem of this nature. As they say, "sunshine is the best disinfectant."

    Since the original post our CR-V has required yet another oil change. By early March fuel and exhaust smells again became more frequent when we drove the car. I took it to our dealer on March 8th. The oil reading was 1 1/2 inches above full, and smelled strongly of fuel. I asked our dealer to document the reading on the service invoice.

    We had only put 450 miles on the car since the oil was last changed in mid-January. To summarize, that's three oil and filter changes in less than 2000 miles, along with replaced sensors and fuel injectors.

    As I noted in the original post, we typically drive the car for short distances around town. It's been a cold winter in Minnesota, and on some drives the engine temperature never increases above the lowest level.

    I called Honda customer service this week to check the status of our original complaint. We had not heard back from them in over a month. I learned that Honda had documented the file incorrectly, and was under the impression that the oil changes were required in the range of 10,000 to 20,000 miles, not the 1,000 to 2,000 miles that we have experienced.

    We are very frustrated with the lack of follow up from Honda regarding this problem. This is not acceptable performance from a 7 1/2 month old car. Honda corporate first needs to acknowledge they have a problem, something they have been unwilling to do in my conversations with them. (Our dealer, on the other hand, has been helpful and proactive. I suspect they are as frustrated as we are.)

    Carcomplaints.com posted an article this week about numerous complaints related to gas in oil in the CR-V. Here's the link:
    https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/honda-cr-v-oil-levels-increasing-unburned-fuel.shtml

    This is our fourth Honda. I'm rapidly losing trust in the company.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Have you investigated your state's Lemon Laws?
  • I'm considering it. The Minnesota Lemon Law requires "four unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect" before you can begin the process. So we're not quite there yet. Perhaps the next cold wave? At this stage, with no solution in sight, I would like to get rid of the car if we could.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Everywhere, USAPosts: 127,848

    I'm considering it. The Minnesota Lemon Law requires "four unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect" before you can begin the process. So we're not quite there yet. Perhaps the next cold wave? At this stage, with no solution in sight, I would like to get rid of the car if we could.

    Seems weird that the dealership would let you drive back out of the dealership in a car that is obviously malfunctioning. Especially, since it could eventually cause catastrophic engine damage, and it's under warranty. Seems they don't want to take responsibility for the product they sell. (just my $0.02)

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,089
    I put out a report to other techs around the world to see if they have any perspective on this issue. So far the only responses are that they will have their lube techs monitor the oil levels when vehicles come in more closely as well as to check for a fuel odor. Consider that there might be more awareness of the condition if real techs were also doing the essential maintenance services instead of entry level, barely supervised lube techs.
Sign In or Register to comment.