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Comments
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
If you bought from a separate company, which one? It's so hard to figure out who's legitimate...
Thanks!
If you bought from a separate company, which one? It's so hard to figure out who's legitimate...
Thanks!
As many problems the Rovers have had in the past 4 years,
and the Freelander was nothing but a constant problem for almost anyone who had one.. I sincerely wish they would of
held back.. TEST DRIVE IT LIKE THE BMW X3 did prior to bringing it to market.
Also I said "SPEND MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS" not make millions of rovers... But I am sure Rover did off of all the Repairs. Below is the "actual" statement I made.
30,0000 paid in 4 years for a SUV THAT HAD NO TRADE IN VALUE WHAT SO EVER.. WITH A "0" interest rate financing.. IS 30,000.00 REASONS WHY I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE PURCHASING THE LR2 UNTIL THEY CAN PROVE THEY ARE QUALITY AND REPAIR THE CONSUMERS TRUST ON THE ONES WHO SPEND MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS PRIOR TRUSTING LAND ROVER WITH THEIR DECISION TO PURCHASE THEIR PRIOR JUNK.
You make the ROVER problems sound like "NO BIG DEAL", and all dealers have these problems in the magnitude the Freelander, LR3 and ROVER have experienced.. When you and I know that is NOT TRUE.. I Think to build confidence in the consumers who had purchsed the JUNK PRIOR, these vehicles should be tested for 2 SOLID YEARS.. by a independant firm acknowledging all problems and resolving them prior to bring them to the consumers again. 30,000 and NO SUPPORT AND NO VALUE and all you get is an a bunch of FLUFFY TALK ABOUT .. OH..how great these cars are as you are waiting for a TOW TRUCK...
I know NOT ONE OTHER SUV/car in todays market or prior that has had the problems the Freelander/Rover has experienced int he last 4 years. To put more salt into the wound, they ignore your problems and do NOTHING TO COMPENSATE for the MONEY you have lost trying to keep it working.
Electrical problems and putting a PATCH to the program.. to me is NOT A SOLUTION... Electrical is electrical.. a computer program patch will NOT FIX ELECTRICAL.. If it is a program problem, then it is NOT electrical.
Making light of the problems makes you look to others as a
"corporate person" who is protecting the site.
B Gant
Take it easy on the all caps and take a moment or two to actually read what you have written.
Just a thought... :shades:
I don't really care if people I don't know see the numbers I got, so here goes:
Cap Cost = $37,986.63
Lease Term = 36 months
Miles/year = 12,000
Total due at signing = $2039.76 (includes $557.48 Cap Cost reduction, $654.54 First Month's payment, and several fees.)
Monthly Payment = $654.54 ($595.04 base + $59.50 tax)
Residual Value = $21,573
The dealer also gave me $700 for my trade in.
I think Land Rover in general has crappy lease rates, but I like the idea of a new ride ever few years, so this was fine with me. Any other questions, let me know.
The same LR lease spec you have quoted above for a BMW X3 comes in at $490/month; and that's a fully loaded X3 with a cap cost of $42,000. The only way I can comprehend this dichotomy is to guess that BMW makes money by volume sales in the US and likely has a more efficient distribution system and Land Rover makes most of it's money in Europe and can sell only a small amount of cars in the US and is satisified with that.
I'd hate to think that it's greed or conceit; that LR thinks their cars are more special and more desirable than BMW's, and that their actual marketing strategy is to overcharge for the value in the hope that people will be more impressed and more likely to buy if it is simply more expensive. If that's the case, and even if it's not, at $650/month that's too rich for my blood. My opinion is that it's not worth the price. That doesn't mean I think it's a bad car, it means I think it is a bad lease value, possibly the worst I have ever seen.
Just buy the LR2 instead of leasing it. They are at the moment offering 4.9% for up to 60 months on the LR2 and it is thousands of dollars less MSRP then a comparable X3. I think to get all of the stuff a top spec LR2 comes with on the X3 you have to be in the middle to upper 40k range.
I just priced it out a top spec LR2 that has a MSRP of just over 40,000. A X3 with similar eqiupment has a MSRP of nearly 50,000.
Also still looking for reliability information, so if you already bought your LR2 please give us a review.
Thanks.
This was your direct quote in post 239.
Also I said "SPEND MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS" not make millions of rovers
This was your quote in post 255. If you are going to rant and rave, at least back it up with facts, not just angry mutterings. Also, a Freelander forum would be appropriate, not a forum dedicated to LR2. FYI, the LR2 was subjected to over 1 million miles of testing prior to introduction. And as BR told you, not one part was carried over from Freelander to LR2.
To clear things up, I'm not talking about customer service satisfaction either.
I think the LR2 lease is out of whack with the market and just because the loaded X3 is higher on paper, mid 40's to 40 for the LR2, but it's lease price is affordable and the LR2's is not, doesn't that simply make the LR2 a bad deal? Aren't they just asking too much money because they are a smaller company? Shouldn't be because it is a much better car or a much better value?
The entire market has become addicted to incentives of one type or another and Land Rover does not typicaly offer much in the way of incentives. We push to sell the cars on their own merits without a ton of support. Check any of the Land Rover lease question forums and the Land Rover leases are always very high.
If you are interested in getting a LR2 just buy it instead of leasing it. If you only lease cars then frankly Land Rovers are probably not a vehicle you should be considering because they do not normally have the leasing support that other European makes do. There are some cars you should buy and some you should lease and the LR2 is a car you should buy.
I would never advise someone to buy any BMW because they give them away on the lease side with incentives that don't apply to normal retail sales. The entire reason BMW came out with the ultimate service plan was to help protect their investment in lease vehicles that were returning. Then you have the Full Circle program that requires BMW dealers to retain X% of lease returns for sale at their original dealership.
By doing that they force the dealers to shoulder a signficant portion of the cost when it comes to selling off lease BMWs. It also helps prop up residual values.
A LR2 with no money down financed over 60 months using the 4.9% interest rate is around 790-800 a month with taxes.
A X3 with similar equipment and using all of the same terms is nearly 970 a month with taxes.
Looks like the LR2 is the better value unless you just HAVE to lease a car.
"Apparently Range Rover drivers are content with their vehicles. The Range Rover took the 2006 Prestige SUV category in R.L. Polk's annual Automotive Loyalty Awards. The award recognizes manufacturers for superior loyalty performance. Loyalty is determined when a household that owns a new vehicle returns to purchase or lease another new vehicle of the same model or make."
Ford.com
At approx. $650/month for a lease price and 4.9 for 60 months purchase, that's eventually $50,000 you will pay for a $39,000 car over 5 years (and that monthly payment is higher than the lease) sorry, these are all bad numbers and bad deals.
2003 Freelander cost: $30,000 Lease: $399/month
2007 LR2 cost: $39,000 Lease: $650/month
2007 BMW X3 cost: $42,000 Lease: $490/month
They're right when they say the LR2 has nothing in common with the old Freelander.
But if you can afford it, great for you. I must be growing old school, I can actually remember when cars were an important purchase but they didn't break the bank, and they certainly were not the most expensive financial burden behind your house mortgage or your rent... they are now.
The Sport is not expensive for its category. It is less then a comparable equiped X5, less then a comparable equipped Cayenne and less then a comprable Toruag.
The LR2 is less then a comparable equiped X3. There is no way you are going to get a X3 with the equipment a top spec LR2 has for 42,000. You are going to have a MSRP well over 45,000. When I speced out a X3 at BMW's site it was just shy of 49,000 USD when equiped like the top in LR2.
Yes they lease for more then their competitors but I have already explained why that is. Historicaly speaking towards the end of the model yeal Land Rover will throw some support behind the lease to clear out left over models but that is all you get. If you want the best deal and don't mind waiting till the end of the model year then go that route.
I also think the RR Sport is expensive and the lease is high, and it's cash price is more expensive than even the high end 4.8i BMW X5 which starts at $54,500; the RR Sport starts at $57,950, and it's right on the front page of their websites so I don't know how you can say the Sport is less than the X5, it's clearly not.
But that's not even my point, which is that the LR2 cannot be considered an economical LR like the Freelander was and it is not even in the same price category as the BMW X3 though for comparison most reviewers see them as one in the same. They may be, performance and size wise, but not lease price; the LR2 is in the next class up; and that's a huge disappointment imho.
As noted above, the Freelander actually had some pretty good lease deals in the '03 model year. Give the LR2 some time, and you'll probably see lease deals on them, as well..
They may not have to sell a lot of them, but the $40K price range is pretty big leasing territory... They will at least have to come up with something reasonable, at some point.
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The ROVERS have lost their Bragging Badge for a couple years..
B Gant
Good job on not using the CAPS so much. You can actually read your posts now ;-) Also try to put in a return in there every once in a while.
I don't think it's a bad idea to wait a bit to buy a LR2, but then again it's always better to buy ANY model after it's been out a year if you can wait.
I'm very interested in the LR2. I'm waiting until the end of the year -- not because I'm afraid of LR's reliability, but b/c I want them to work out any first-year gremlins. Hopefully there'll be some cool additions next year as well.
Having said that, I will repeat again what everybody has already said, the LR2 does NOT have the same engine as the Freelander. They don't share a single piece in common. Where are you getting your information?
Additionaly you can't compare a Base X5 to a Sport as the X5 doesn't even come standard with Nav. To get all of the stuff you get in a 61,000 dollar Sport on the X5 you would have a MSRP of nearly 68,000 dollars.
A 61,000 dollar sport is the most common price and comes with Nav, all around PDC, adjustable air suspension( I don't think you can even get adjustable air suspension in the X5, luxury interior, heated front and rear seats and a heated windshield also not avaliable on the X5. Oh and a Center Console mini-fridge also not avaliable in the X5.
All of that is leaving out all of the extra 4WD hardware that is standard no the Sport and not even avaliable on the X5.
You have to compare like to like with different brand vehicles you can't just compare the base model of one to the base model of another unless they have similar equipment levels.
Land Rover is not going to price a car down in the freelander range anytime soon. They know that they cannot compete down at that price and volume level so they are just not going to market anything at that level.
and Freelander.. You are reading NOTHING POSITIVE what so ever.. It is all ABOUT LAW SUITS and how FORD/LAND ROVER has not supported their products when all were failing. You will read and see the tempers are above RAGE with Rover and Ford. I could post many, but go to the last page where it starts todays date and read. FORD/ROVER HAS NO
respect for the consumers who purchased their LEMMONS, and
refuse to compensate them for the BAD PRODUCT. LAW SUITS
are not starting to form. DO YOU really want to take a chance on a company that HAS NOT SUPPORTED it product?
B Gant
Yes, but then we'd be repeating ourselves and repetition isn't particularly effective.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
You have a LR2, right? Does it come with auto-dimming mirror?
Thx,
Angel
I understand the LR2 comes with 2 DVDs that have the most recent map info for both US and Canada. I know (according to the dealer) that the Nav System doesn't have a "traffic indication" feature that tells you if there are any traffic issues up ahead, but the included 6 month subscription to SIRIUS has traffic stations. The concept of GPS tracking, I am also aware of.
What I would like to know:
- Is the GPS Navigation System subscription-based?
- If it is NOT subscription-based, how does the vehicle know its present location, where to turn, etc.?
- If it IS, what is the monthly cost?
The standard stereo will meet my needs, my current phone would not work with the blue tooth (thanks for some of the chat above otherwise I would not have known that) and I picked up a portable navigation system at Costco for $300.00 that I can use in any of my vehicles (will provide the needed compass that should be added next year's model).
I am looking forward to my first LR experience.
I hope the 9.8 rating is close to being right and that I am able to get a hitch and roof rack soon.
The GPS unit detects satellites orbiting the Earth and uses precise position and timing signals from the satellites to locate its position and elevation on the earth with amazing precision. This position system is then combined with maps and software that can guide a user while driving.
Regards,
Tom
Please don't forget about the rest of us on this forum who are still rather trigger-shy with purchasing the LR2. Keep us updated, and I hope you only have pleasant ones to share.
From a previous post, I had mentioned that your comments were "much appreciated". It seemed that you had a bad experience with the Land Rover / Ford company, and were simply trying to warn us from making an uneducated, unresearched purchase.
You have made it crystal clear that you don't believe Land Rover / Ford is a consumer-conscious, reputable company in many, many, many posts! But how many more? I agree that this forum is a free space, and you're more than welcome to post. However, if you look at the title, it is for the new LR2 / Freelander 2. By the sounds of it, your lemon of a vehicle was the previous Freelander? As someone else had suggested, perhaps you should do your ranting on the Freelander Forum. Also, be careful what you write; it may be considered libel by some. And no, I do not work for Ford or any vehicle manufacturer.
You go on this self-important tirade of consumer awareness. I could be wrong, but it appears that the folks in this forum are all adults, who have previously purchased / leased vehicles. It's rather condescending for someone to think that simple "hype" is enough to sway someone to spend $40000.
I liken you to those Bible-thumpers who try to shove their religion down your throat every minute they get. I know what I believe in, obtaining my info through my own research, and neither a car company's glossy photos nor your repetitive posts can make me change my mind.
Now there is a point I think most of us agree with.
B.Gant
Put the car in reverse wait till the mirrors dip fully then adjust the mirrors to where you want them to dip next time. Put the car back in park let the mirrors go all the way back up and then put it in reverse again.
The mirrors will save in the new position so that you can only have one mirror dip, usually the passenger side one, or only dip the mirror slightly.
Finding out about a couple accessories today too including: Audio Connectivity Module, mudflaps, and the premium carpet mats.
Things to watch out for:
1) Parking Distance Control Volume (have read it is too low to hear and there is a patch the dealer has to fix it. Is this only a Europe problem or should I check it also?)
2) Windshield wipers (have read some are too long and dealer needs to replace again only in Europe).
Is there anything else you reccomend checking at the dealer. All the information I got about problems is from the European forum so if any one has bought the car in North America and found little faults- please let me know!
1. Enough, bg54. No one cares. Only you do. And no, I do not work for Ford or Land Rover, and I don't like Jaguar either.
2. The navigation system is not subscription based. I wish it paired with Sirius traffic, and updated the traffic situation real time like XM NavTraffic, but it doesn't. There are 2 map DVD's that come with the truck. The DVD player is under the passenger seat, accessible from the back seat. I have been wondering if it will play other DVDs, but I probably won't try.
3. Like I said, Land Rover has really crappy lease rates. It would have been cheaper to buy my LR2, but I like the idea of a lease, so I went with it. I priced out the X3, and BMW nails you for every little option, so a loaded out X3 is actually just over $50,000. I want all the gadgets, so I shyed away from this.
4. The park distance control volume is not too low on my vehicle. It actually turns down the volume on the radio, so you can hear the PDC easily.
5. I wondered what the mirrors were doing the first time I backed up, but I realized what they were. Pretty cool.
6. The rear-view mirror does automatically dim. Sometimes it's not as bright during the day as I like.
7. There is a dealer in California that has an accessory website with pictures of the mud flaps, carpet mats, etc. so you can check them out before you buy. I was considering the flaps also. My dealer says he'll get them for about $63 for each pair.
8. I love the mp3 jack in this vehicle. It's really nice being able to carry around 30GB or more of your music collection. I think the iPod connectivity module will let you use the steering wheel controls to control it.
9. No problems with the windshield wiper lengths that I can tell.
http://landrover.niello.com/accessories.php?category=104
I like the side steps too, but they sure are pricey. Hope this helps!
It is in the manual but I forget exactly where.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070420/FREE/70418003/1528/F- REE
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper