My post 3391 >"May I suggest that it would be a matter of road force variation in the tires/wheel combination...Hunter 9700 Road Force balancer."
I'm glad to hear the Road Force balancing has improved the vibration charactristics.
In the post 3391 I put links to explanation of the cause of out-roundness while under weight of the car. The tire crushes different amounts while rolling so it actually moves up and down slightly as the car moves which makes the tire's mass send movement into the car's chassis. GM has experience with this from about 1999-2000 with the improved stiffness of their cars and lighter weight alloys in the suspension parts. Toyota may have started using those in their recent design.
Anyway you ask if it lasts. I found with Michelins it lasts as long as regular balancing would have stayed balanced. On Michelins which have always been a round tire once balanced they stayed balanced for 20K or more miles. If the tires are less well made they may not stay balanced as long. Correct alignment will help prevent uneven wear which will hurt the balance and require rebalancing sooner.
If you're hearing different road noise I'll bet the tires were rotated back to front and you're hearing the difference as the tread was worn differently on the rear.
You might ask the dealer how much the tire/wheel combinations were out of balance on the Road Force scale. Numbers less than 10 are great and probably under 17-19 is acceptable.
my thinking is if the tires were not properly installed on the rims, they may have had excessive "out of roundness". also, if the tires are over-inflated, you'd probably have noticed more "jumping" of the tires over road imperfections, and in addition, a "lighter" or "looser" feeling as per steering inputs and feedback.
also in contrast, when your tires become under-inflated, you'll probably notice it's harder to turn the wheel...
it's possible the vehicle was placed on a transport in a location where they really applied a good deal of force to hold the car in position, and in the process, messed up the mounting of the tires on the rims. also, they might have shipped the vehicle in a slightly over-inflated tire condition to lessen the likelyhood of developing a tire flat-spot, or the vehicle was on the lot for a long period of time without being driven.
why wouldn't road-force balancing the vehicle's tires be a good idea? i can't think of any.
Thanks imidazo97 and user777 for your inputs.You got really helped me with my concerns.Imidazo97...You were right all along from your previous post a couple of days ago that the wheels needed to be rebalanced using the variation and roadforce technique.
The car was not sitting on the lot for long period of time. Actually,I found out from toyota services that it was manufactured on february 14 and given to the dealer on the 28th.I picked it on march 5th from the dealer.So I guess that rules out the theory that the wheels were out of balance because the car was sitting on the lot for a long time.
I'm leaning toward the theory that the tires had excessive out of roundness.How it got there who knows.I guess how it got there is not relevant anymore since my problems are gone.But the inputs that you guys provided makes alot of sense.Maybe it was not properly balanced to begin with or its possible that the car was in a position where the force on the wheels messed up the balance.
However,when I picked up the car the tires were indeed over inflated at about 36psi on each.But when I lowered the pressures to 31psi on each tire I was still having those problems.Maybe when the car was shipped with the high tire pressures that had something to do with causing the wheels to come out of balance.
I read somewhere that dealers need to roadforce the wheels when regular balancing the wheels doesn't work.Possibly in cases where the tires have excessive out of roundness and using the roadforce technique is the only way to resolve the problem.I guess that's why I'm leaning towards the theory that the tires have excessive out of roundness.
Its also possible that the tires may be defective.I read other post that the michelins sqeauls at low speeds on take off and other complaints that they may be sort of defective.
So in the end I guess my only concern is how to deal with these problems if they re-appear in the near future.If they come come back I guess the only way to deal with it is to take it back to the dealer and have them roadforce balance them again and check the allighnent.And if that doesn't work then I guess I just have to buy new tires.
I'm glad I bought the platinum warranty.It may help in the long run.Thanks guys.
also, it is not unheard of to have a tire which is defective. i am not sure how rare, but it's unlikely you can fix it with balancing (road-force machine or not).
I don't remember what brand tires you have, but sometimes tires just don't roll round because of manufacturing variation. As the service manager (who started as an alignment guy decades ago) said the tire manufacturers just haven't kept up with he quality needed to meet the needs of the cars starting with the stiffer G body cars and then the H body from GM. Michelin is the closest, at least it was then. General had a bunch of tires that were put on LeSabres in 92 that just got worse the longer they rolled and just went out of round and wouldn't balance. The belt just weren't right.
If you replace I'd recommend certain Michelins with road force balancing. Another thing your dealer could do is replace wheels on your car with those from another car on the lot to see if that removes the problems. It's just a matter of putting both cars up on a lift and switching 4 new wheels to your car and then back to the other one after you drive them to feel their characteristics. If that fixes it, replacement Michelins could be put on your wheels at his pleasure. Or even replacement wheels and tires both put onto your car.
Ok to ask a dumb question, what is this roadforce balancing that everyone is talking about. Is that where they balance the tire while it is on the car or where they put the wheel and tire on a machine and cut it to make it round again which to me would be a no-no as all that does is you lose a few thousand miles of wear.
The Road Force balancer pushes the tire against a wheel and rotates it to measure how much the tire moves up and down compared to the road while the car's weight is on it. They ten add weights based on that variation and to compensate for it.
The newer Road Force machines measure side thrust from the wheel--from the tire's belts or structure being wrong and causing a sidewise pull which comes off on the car as a lead or pull, sometimes. Tires with similar pulls can be paired with equals on a axle so they compensate for each other's pulls.
Browse the two links and go through the explanations. GM was aware of this in 1977 in my Cutlass service manual and described a way to measure for the variation as a tire problem.
BTW: better tires have less problems with this. Michelins have been said to be best. Some highly advertised sporty tires have some variation problems based on my service manager's comments in 2003 troubleshooting my Buick.
imidazo07..... Thanks for the advice.To answer your question of what kind of tires my camry came with,I have the michelin mx4 energy.
I have a question.I was thinking of changing my steel wheel rims for a better set of alloy wheels in the future.If I do that then is it better to get the same tires mounted and balanced on the new wheels from the dealer or elsewhere ?
I mean if I go to the dealer then he may balance them alot better using the roadforce balancer.But then again I could go elsewhere where they may the same machine and do it alot cheaper.
Also,since my warranty covers balance and allighment then if I go to my dealer will he charge me extra to balance and allign them?
I suppose that voids my warranty since I'm changing the wheels the car came with.In that case the dealer may charge me for the mount,balancing and allighnment.
Is it better to go elsewhere and have them mount and balance the tires on the new wheels and then go back to the dealer and have him do the allignment under warranty.Is my allighnment and balance still covered under warranty if I change the wheels,but use the same tires ?
I'm in the camp of folks who have experienced lots of annoying rattles from the front dash of their 2007 Camrys... namely, when the weather is chilly. Mine is a Black SE, purchased in April of last year (it will be one year ago, tomorrow!)
A few months I took my car into the dealer I'd purchased it from, in KCK. I told them about the dash problem and asked him if he could find & implement the TSB that is out for the problem-- because I knew there was one. The manager was a jerk, and returned the car to me without doing a thing; he said he had called "someone in Calfornia" who had said any rattling was "normal." He didn't even act as though they had even bothered to DRIVE the car to listen for the problem. I drove the car home, and it rattled the whole way. Shame on you, un-named crappy KCK Toyota dealer.
A month later, I took the car into a widely known dealer in KCMO. It wasn't cold out that day, and I don't even think they were even able to replicate the dash rattle. But the service guy was very pleasant and they performed the TSB no questions asked!
We had another cold snap recently and it became clear that the dash still rattled. For months I had experienced two different pitched rattles... the TSB they performed seems to have remedied the lower-pitched rattle, but not the higher-pitched rattle. I took the car back in to the KCMO dealer and had one of them ride with me. 'Twas a cold morning, and the dash began rattling right away. They called and found there is a new TSB out on the dash problem... and have ordered parts. When the parts get in they are gonna loan me a new car and fix my dash. So, Kudos to this KCMO dealer for doing service "right."
Just an update for anyone having similar dash problems.
I am facing the same issue with my 07 Camy LE AT (April 2006). After TSB(EG056-06) done it worked fine for about 300 miles. After that it starts hestitating again. When it reaches 500 miles mark it sets back as normal. This cycle repeats.
I have heard that what the TSB doing is resetting the program after each 500 miles.
Is there two versions of TSB's TSB EG056-06 TSB EG056R-06 (Reviesd)
I was just looking and noticed 2 new TSBs for the 2007 Camry:
I. April 4, 2007 - AU002-07 NO SOUND FROM AUDIO SYSTEM.
In some instances where the customer experiences no sound from the vehicle’s audio system, the root cause may be the trunk lid torsion bar coming out of its retaining clip and grounding the rear speaker when the trunk is closed.
Affected vehicles are 2007 Camry's produced before these VINs (sorry, I am having difficulty with this table formatting):
For the Camry's built at TMMK, the underlined digit in the VIN shows which line it was built on. If it is a 0, it is Line 1. If it is a 5, it is Line 2.
The solution is to secure the torsion bar spring to the clamp with a zip-tie and apply electrical (vinyl) tape to the torsion bar spring.
Maybe we should keep some duct tape in our trunk for emergencies??
II. April 6, 2007 - EG014-07 M.I.L. ON DTC P0456
Some 2007 model year Camry vehicles may exhibit a M.I.L. “ON” condition with DTC P0456 (Evaporative Emissions Control System Leak Detected — Very Small Leak).
Affected vehicles are 2007 Camry's produced before these VINs (sorry about the formatting):
Engine Plant & Line Production Change Effective VIN 2GR-FE TMMK Line 1 TMMK14T1BK46K#7U021604 2GR-FE TMMK Line 2 TMMK24T1BK46K#7U526052 2AZ-FE TMMK Line 1 TMMK14T1BE46K#7U082189 2AZ-FE TMMK Line 2 TMMK24T1BE46K#7U604865
The solution appears to be to replace the charcoal canister assembly.
Hi torn80; What we all need from you is the actual TSB number for the revised Dash Rattle. Most dealers do NOT like doing any work on rattles. Your assistance in obtaining the specifics on the dash rattle fix would be much appreciated.
I was curios if I could find any TSBs related to dash rattle on www.tundrasolutions.com. I didn't see any. Here are all the ones I could find related to noise issues:
BO017-03 TRIM GARNISH LOOSE (REVISED) NV004-06 FRONT SEAT SQUEAK NOISE NV006-06 MOON ROOF RATTLE BO015-06 RH INTERIOR A-PILLAR GARNISH LOOSE NV009-06 UPPER/LOWER WINDSHIELD TICK NOISE BR010-06 REAR BRAKE SQUEAK BR008-06 FRONT BRAKE SQUEAK (REVISED) NV002-07 DRIVER'S POWER SEAT SQUEAK FROM REAR OF SEAT SU006-06 REAR SUSPENSION TICK NOISE (REVISED)
teamtbo; Thanks for the info. This is what I picked up on www.toyotanation.com and no TSB numbers;
The fix for the dash clicking in cold weather was stated in the service invoice as.. "see tech tip. CAUSE: rattle in dash. CORRECTION: RE and RE dash and install anti rattle tape." Under "PARTS: QTY: 2. FP NUMBER: 08231-00801-WA. DESCRIPTION: Noise kit."
Toyota of canada has had many of these complaints due to the constant sub zero temperature.there is a technical service bulletin that has not hit the states,basically it goes like this.”remove entire dashboard assembly.insulate defroster duct,insulate plastic clips that attach dash to firewall.” Hope this helps and we find the actual TSB.
Hi, I own 05 Camry LE model with 30k miles on it. I bought it used around 29K. Whenever I turn on heater during last winter, oily smells comes out. What worries me more is that it seems sometimes(not all the times), oily smell is coming out even when heater is not turn on. I didn't notice this problem when I test drove the car before the purchase. Any tips on what is causing this problem would be appreciated. Thanks.
First of all, thanks to both of you. There isn't any kind of oil spill over engine and oil cap seems to be secure. The smell isn't sweet but it smells like oil burning(well sort of). Smell itself is not strong but noticeable. Do you think it is something I should check out with maintenance shop urgently?
You're welcome. I thought of one other thing -- is the oil dipstick firmly seated?
Unless you think the smell is from something burning (like an electrical short) or from leaking gasoline, I don't think you need to have it looked at immediately. But check your gauges and warning lights for any signs of further trouble down the road.
If this is a V6 this could be a leaking VVTi supply line which is a known problem on the Avalon. I believe there is a TSB for the supply line, but they are on backorder. Better to take your car to the dealer for them to check whether this is the problem or not - and keep a copy of the workorder. You don't want to lose oil and then of course Toyota will blame you if any damage is done.
I have a 2007 Camry under Warrenty. I heard a very loud noise when I turned on the heater then smelled something burning. The mechanic said this is usually caused by acorns or animals getting inside the blower motor. Does that sound right? Could this be a known problem with the blower motor?
Well its been a week since I posted the problems I was having. It seems like the vibration is completely gone.However,I'm still feeling the car wobble up and down while driving straight and making turns.
I pinpointed the wobble effect occuring on the front left wheel.When I drive very slow or come out of a turn the left wheel is very bouncy.It feels like its higher than the right wheel.
I didn't pinpoint the exact problem until now.It was a week ago when I took it to the service manager and complained that the car was having problems.I complained that I was feeling the car vibrate at highway speed and that the steering felt a bit loose and seemed like the front tires were wobbling alot giving an unstable ride.
The service manager concluded that the wheels were out of balance.He then balanced them and said the wobble,vibration and steering was a part of all the same problem and that now it should be gone.I even asked him if he did the allighnment and he said it was fine.
The vibration is completely gone,but it still feels like the car is bouncy and wobbling in the front left wheel.I didn't want to take it back to the service manager because I thought maybe what I'm feeling is normal.
Instead,I thought let me get a second opinion.I took it to a mechanic and explained the problem.First he set the tire pressures in the front left and right tire to exactly the same at 31psi.He measured both front wheels.He measured each from the center cap to the upper fender.My compliants were indeed correct,he said the front left wheel was half an inch higher than the right.And that's why I was feeling the front left wheel bounce alot while driving.
So,afterall what I was feeeling was not normal and the balancing didn't correct it.He then explained the most likely scenario was that when it was brought on the truck from the factory that maybe it was in a bad position and that something happened causing the wheels to come off balance and mess up the allighment.Somehow,there was alot of pressure on the front left wheel that caused it misalign and be higher than the right.
He told me that those guys at toyota shouldn't have told me that the allighnment was normal.I'm assuming they didn't even check it and just said it was normal.He said I should go there and insist having them measure the wheels like he did and to check the allignnmet.Also,don't take there word that its normal.He said I should have them document the measurements and keep the paperwork.
So now I'm going back to the service manager on monday to raise hell.Does anybody have any knowledge of how they may fix the problem? I'm assuming they may just do the allighment if one wheek is higher than the other.I just hope that it didn't bend the axle or anything serious like that.
jg6... I think you misinterpreted mt post.I think you took my words out of context.If you read my post entirely,what I meant was that the actual tire is not higher,but that the wheel is positioned higher on the left compared to the right.Nothing to do with the tire size.Nor did I mention that.Both tires were set at 31 psi so that measurements can be accurate when measuring the distance from the wheel to upper fender.
The measurements taken only provide significance that the allighnment is out of place because one wheel is placed higher than the other.Why else would I mention that the allighmnet is an issue.
Anybody,knows that if the mechanic is measuring the distance from the center of the wheel to the fender then he is checking for issues that deal with chamber,caster and toe.Possibly an allighmnet issue.I even said that the mechanic suggested that its possibly the allighmnet.
I will say this in a nicer way. You do not measure wheel alignment by comparing the wheel position to the bodywork. Not ever!
This is why the half-inch difference is meaningless, and that so-called mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about.
There really doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your car, now that the wheel balance issue has been fixed. My advice if you're not convinced is to ask for a test drive of a similarly equipped new or used 2007 Camry. Drive it on the same roads where you think yours is not acting properly.
I know to check for allighnment thats not the proper way,but the mechanic was only measuring the distance to verify my complaint.I told him that the left wheel felt higher than the right.Its possible that the allighnment is affected or something else to explain for that half an inch difference.
Also,I didn't tell the mechanic to check the allignmnet.If that was the case he would not measure it that way.He actually suggested to tell the dealer to check the allighnment.
My car is brand new,only 900 miles and 4 weeks old.That half an inch gap is not meaningless and should not be there.Both wheels should be allighned in position at the same height.
Also,if you read my previous post several days ago I did drive a similary equipped car.I drove my friends camry,the same as mine and that was alot more stable and didn't exhbit the front left tire being bouncy.
The ride feels so bouncy that I thought it might be normal.I thought maybe making some changes may help.I thought maybe changing the tires to a lower profile and get bigger rims may help or even getting the trd springs.
But now since I took it to the mechanic and he found that half an inch difference I now know that the ride behavior is definitely not normal.
I mean the service department already reblanced the wheels.That problem I was having with the vibration on the highway shouldn't even have been there on a new car.It was the service manager that took it on the highway and verified that complaint.That vibration is gone,but the loose steeering and wobble is still there.
That why I'm skeptical now to believe that everything that I'm still experiencing is normal.There was already a problem on the car that was fixed.There's something that happened to the car that forced the wheels out of balance and possible now explains for that half inch difference.
No, you cannot "feel" by driving a car that one wheel is "higher" than another. And 1/2 inch is trivial, especially in the manner measured by that so-called mechanic.
You are making this a much bigger issue than it is. One or more tires/wheels were out of balance originally. This is not a big deal, and is fixable easily, as yours was (too bad you had to deal with that testy service writer the first time). At the very worst (as dudley mentions), tires or wheels are easily replaced, not like transmissions (which as you know from following this board have given some people problems). By all means, you should comparison-test another Camry.
Cars even when brand new can have issues. In 2007, it's a lot less likely than in the 70s when I bought my first new car. Have you ever bought a new house? These are nowhere near as well-built as today's cars.
You said you drove your friend's Camry -- was it a 2007 model? Camrys traditionally have had light steering and little "feel of the road" through the steering wheel. If you wanted something with sportier handling and a touch more road feel, you should have considered the Honda Accord.
It's not even clear to me what you mean by a "wobble." All cars bounce to a certain extent on bumpy or uneven surfaces. Obviously, a Corvette is going to feel a lot less "bouncy" or "floaty" than a Lincoln Town Car. The Camry falls somewhere in the middle.
dudleyr...Thanks for the advice,but the wheels were already rotated when they were reblanced by the service manager.I am still feeling the same on the front left side before and after the wheels were rotated.
210delray... How many times did I say in my previous posts that I drove the exact 2007 le v6 that my friend had and it didn't exhibit those problems.
Also,I'm not making a big deal out of this.You sound like those jerks at the service department that keep saying everything is normal.They were quite embarrased when the service manager drove my car on the highway and found the vibration issue.
And yes the balance is easily fixable like you say,but is a big issue for me considering that I had to take the car two times and wait five days.It was such a hassle and inconvience.I didn't buy a new car to go through all that trouble.
I know that the steering is normally light on the camry,just like my 04' camry.But my 2007 camry feels so loose compared to my friends exact car and my previous 04'camry.
The service manager himself acknowledged there was an issue with the steering.He said it was part of the wheels not properly being rebalanced.After he rebalanced them,the steering feedback and looseness was a bit improved.
However,the bounciness and wobble is still there.If you don't know what I meant by wobble then please read my previous posts from several days ago.I explained it in detail.The car was swaying and hopping up and down while driving slow and making turns.
The car feels more stable and doesn't sway from side to side after the wheels were rebalanced,but that bouncy feeling on the front left wheels is still there.
My friends 07' camry didn't feel anything near like that.Neither did my 04'camry.However,the 04' was bit softer giving a floaty feeling,but nothing like the wheel bounciness on my new camry.
And yes the half an inch is trivial.It may be normal,but considering that I had an issue with the wheels being improperly balanced then I have ever reason to believe that the wheel allignment may also be an issue.
So I guess I proved that my problems are not normal on my new camry.Its not normal behavior like you think.If you think its normal then did you ever ask yourself how can the wheels be imbalanced on such a new car.I mean if its normal then that balancing problem shouldn't even be there in the first place.
The car was built on february 14 and delivered to me on march 6.I noticed the problems around march 10 before I took it to the dealer.It wasn't sitting there on the lot for a long time.So that doesn't explain the imbalance.
I'm assuming there's something that happened on the transport truck that messed up the wheel balance and possibly the allighment.The car was probably siting in a bad position and someting happened that forced pressure on the front left wheel.
Well pardon me for missing some of the prior details in your lengthy posts, but I still think you're still overreacting and overanalyzing, especially the part about how the car was carried on the transporter truck.
I'm in central VA so if you live anywhere near me, I'd be glad to test drive your car.
But please don't imply that I'm a jerk -- if you go back through this and other Camry forums, you'll see that I try to help people.
This is my last post to you unless you take me up on that test drive.
210delray...I didn't imply that you're a jerk,but that you sounded like those guys at the service department.I referred to them being the jerks.I'm sorry if the way I put it sounded offensive to you.
I called them jerks because its just that I felt like I was being lied to and mistreated.It took five days because initially when they checked the car they said there was no vibration issue and what I was feeling was normal.They took two days doing that.They also said that the car was new and that I shouldn't have any problems.They then laughed off my complaints and said maybe it was just my driving.
Its only the third day when I was called to pick up the car that I insisted the manager ride along with me.He then verified my complaint and indeed there was a vibration issue.The fifth day he did the rebalancing using roadforce and it was gone.
Again,I apologize if I sounded sarcastic towards you.But in no way that was my intention.I'm not in your area so I have to turn down that offer for the test drive.But thanks anyway.
I guess the only way to resolve my compliant is have them check the allighnment and document the paperwork.If its normal then I'll accept that.If not then I suppose it would be fixed.That's probably the only way to get rid of my concerns and be satisfied overall.
how is 1/2" a trivial dimension w.r.t. wheel position?
he could have a bad strut or spring. what about the vehicle frame? it's possible the vehicle did incurr an issue during delivery.
my advice would be pleasantly / confidently ask the dealership to place the vehicle on one of the machines that checks for proper frame shape following a crash, and also inquire if it's possible the strut or spring are at issue at that wheel position.
Because the "mechanic" was measuring between the wheel center and the fender! This dimension can vary depending on the "set" of the springs and how the car is loaded, such as whether a driver is in the seat or not.
If you don't believe me, try this on your own car: Make sure all 4 tires are properly inflated. Then take a tape measure, starting from level solid ground and measure up to the top of the left front wheel arch on the fender. Do the same on the right front wheel arch. Repeat at the left and right rear wheels. Betcha get some difference between left and right.
Now push up and down on the front and rear of the car, getting it to bounce. Repeat all measures and compare again.
If you want to make it even more interesting, have your spouse/significant other sit in the driver's set and repeat again. Let us know the results.
210delray... Thanks for the advice.At the time when the mechanic took the measurements no one was sitting in the car.Niether was there any load in the car,it was empty.Also,the car was sitting on a flat even road and all four tires were set at equal pressures.
However,I agree with your analysis that the dimensions may vary depending on certain factors that you mentioned.Also the results may vary depending on how one performs the measurements.
Perhaps there is a certain way to take the measurements and get accurate results.Maybe the mechanic didn't follow that procedure and that explains for the half inch difference.But maybe he did measure it accurately and he's right.
I remember he recommended that the service tech perform the measurements and document the results.He said they have a special tool that takes accurate measurements and they would know how to check for wheel position height or something other to see if the wheels are allighned at factory settings.
The results maybe normal and if they're not then they would know how to diagnose and fix the problem.If its not normal then its probably the allignment or something else.But in any case the mechanic said to have the tech check the allighnment anyway.
I am going to try what you said just to see what I get.Its raining right now so I have to wait till tomorrow.I'll let you know the results tomorrow or sometime this week when I get the time.Thanks.
Well,I did the measurements myself this time and the mechanic was right all along.Its definitely half an inch higher on the left front than the right front.The tire pressures were same on all four sides to produce accurate results.
I even when to another mechanic at a local tire and allighment center.He even measured it and confirmed that the left front is half an inch higher than the right.He even drove it and noticed that there was definitely a problem.He said it may be possible that they would need to change the struts and springs to correct the ride height.
This time I have a print out of the mechanic analysis that states the problem and recommends that the vehicle will need to be adjusted to the correct height adjustment and will need allighment after the adjustment.
The only reason why I got the printout is so I can show the the service manager that there indeed is a problem and I had a mechanic confirm that.I just don't want to hear its normal this time.
I even found a tsb out online.It adresses the car pulling to the right and left side,but only recommends an allighment. I think it may apply to my vehicle since I do feel the car pulling to the right alot.But I suppose an allignment will be checked and performed regardless of the tsb.
So the fact that I went to two mechanics and they confirmed my complaint then there is definitely a problem.Tomorrow I will go to the service department and let them know.Lets see what they say and do this time.I'll keep you guys posted.
I am having the same loose steering problems with my new 2007 Camry, which I bought 2 days ago. It has a 4-cyl engine and there is no vibration problem, but the steering is disturbing.
I travel a lot and drive a variety of rental vehicles, and have never had a car with such loose steering. I certainly never had a vehicle that I was afraid to drive, but I am afraid to drive this one because it is so hard to keep in centered in a lane. After reading the suggestions on this topic, I will call the dealer tomorrow and see if there is anything they can do.
I have a 2007 V6 RAV4 that has the same brake buzzing noise. It occurs every time I press or release the brake pedal. When I took the vehicle back to the dealer they claimed that it was a normal noise caused by the stability control system. It seemed to be a new issue to them and I don't believe they had any idea what caused the buzzing sound. Has anyone received a definitive answer from Toyota or found a fix for the noise?
I have a 2007 Camry V6 SE and can confirm that I am experiencing the same loose steering issue. I have complained to the service department and was told that the way it drives is normal.
Please define "loose." Is it "play" in the wheel, that is, you turn the wheel slightly and the car doesn't change direction?
Or is it "light?" That is, little effort is needed to turn the wheel, regardless of road speed, and you get little "feel of the road" through the wheel.
If the latter, then this is normal, and has been a Camry characteristic for a long time.
The suspension on the SE is so tight that every bump in the road moves the steering wheel, thus causing for the driver to correct in order to stay straight. This constant fighting with the car is what the term "loose" meant. I presume that this is because of over boosted power steering.
I wonder why Toyota would boost the steering so much on the SE with such a tight suspension.
Here's the TSB # that the tech wrote down for me: NV009-06
They removed the "cowling louver" and installed an anti-noise kit under the bottom of windshield/cowling. I didn't hear any rattles on the way home, though it is quite warm out... we shall see.
I got a 2 weeks old 2007 Camry LE and it drives great except when I take a slow sharp turn in my way to work, it slows down completely and takes 2-4 seconds to regain the speed and move forward..
It is very strange and I'm worried.. is this a Known Toyota problem ...or a unique one..
I had the same rattle issue in cold weather. They removed my dash and reinsulated contact points (did not include a TSB #.. but it took 4 hrs). All I said was "rattle" and the service advisor knew the answer. One week later and still no rattle. Ahhh quiet. I also had squeeky brakes every AM. If you have this issue, there is a TSB to replace the clips to stop the squeeky.
Comments
>"May I suggest that it would be a matter of road force variation in the tires/wheel combination...Hunter 9700 Road Force balancer."
I'm glad to hear the Road Force balancing has improved the vibration charactristics.
In the post 3391 I put links to explanation of the cause of out-roundness while under weight of the car. The tire crushes different amounts while rolling so it actually moves up and down slightly as the car moves which makes the tire's mass send movement into the car's chassis. GM has experience with this from about 1999-2000 with the improved stiffness of their cars and lighter weight alloys in the suspension parts. Toyota may have started using those in their recent design.
Anyway you ask if it lasts. I found with Michelins it lasts as long as regular balancing would have stayed balanced. On Michelins which have always been a round tire once balanced they stayed balanced for 20K or more miles. If the tires are less well made they may not stay balanced as long. Correct alignment will help prevent uneven wear which will hurt the balance and require rebalancing sooner.
If you're hearing different road noise I'll bet the tires were rotated back to front and you're hearing the difference as the tread was worn differently on the rear.
You might ask the dealer how much the tire/wheel combinations were out of balance on the Road Force scale. Numbers less than 10 are great and probably under 17-19 is acceptable.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
also in contrast, when your tires become under-inflated, you'll probably notice it's harder to turn the wheel...
it's possible the vehicle was placed on a transport in a location where they really applied a good deal of force to hold the car in position, and in the process, messed up the mounting of the tires on the rims. also, they might have shipped the vehicle in a slightly over-inflated tire condition to lessen the likelyhood of developing a tire flat-spot, or the vehicle was on the lot for a long period of time without being driven.
why wouldn't road-force balancing the vehicle's tires be a good idea? i can't think of any.
The car was not sitting on the lot for long period of time. Actually,I found out from toyota services that it was manufactured on february 14 and given to the dealer on the 28th.I picked it on march 5th from the dealer.So I guess that rules out the theory that the wheels were out of balance because the car was sitting on the lot for a long time.
I'm leaning toward the theory that the tires had excessive out of roundness.How it got there who knows.I guess how it got there is not relevant anymore since my problems are gone.But the inputs that you guys provided makes alot of sense.Maybe it was not properly balanced to begin with or its possible that the car was in a position where the force on the wheels messed up the balance.
However,when I picked up the car the tires were indeed over inflated at about 36psi on each.But when I lowered the pressures to 31psi on each tire I was still having those problems.Maybe when the car was shipped with the high tire pressures that had something to do with causing the wheels to come out of balance.
I read somewhere that dealers need to roadforce the wheels when regular balancing the wheels doesn't work.Possibly in cases where the tires have excessive out of roundness and using the roadforce technique is the only way to resolve the problem.I guess that's why I'm leaning towards the theory that the tires have excessive out of roundness.
Its also possible that the tires may be defective.I read other post that the michelins sqeauls at low speeds on take off and other complaints that they may be sort of defective.
So in the end I guess my only concern is how to deal with these problems if they re-appear in the near future.If they come come back I guess the only way to deal with it is to take it back to the dealer and have them roadforce balance them again and check the allighnent.And if that doesn't work then I guess I just have to buy new tires.
I'm glad I bought the platinum warranty.It may help in the long run.Thanks guys.
If you replace I'd recommend certain Michelins with road force balancing. Another thing your dealer could do is replace wheels on your car with those from another car on the lot to see if that removes the problems. It's just a matter of putting both cars up on a lift and switching 4 new wheels to your car and then back to the other one after you drive them to feel their characteristics. If that fixes it, replacement Michelins could be put on your wheels at his pleasure. Or even replacement wheels and tires both put onto your car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The newer Road Force machines measure side thrust from the wheel--from the tire's belts or structure being wrong and causing a sidewise pull which comes off on the car as a lead or pull, sometimes. Tires with similar pulls can be paired with equals on a axle so they compensate for each other's pulls.
link title
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Browse the two links and go through the explanations. GM was aware of this in 1977 in my Cutlass service manual and described a way to measure for the variation as a tire problem.
BTW: better tires have less problems with this. Michelins have been said to be best. Some highly advertised sporty tires have some variation problems based on my service manager's comments in 2003 troubleshooting my Buick.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I have a question.I was thinking of changing my steel wheel rims for a better set of alloy wheels in the future.If I do that then is it better to get the same tires mounted and balanced on the new wheels from the dealer or elsewhere ?
I mean if I go to the dealer then he may balance them alot better using the roadforce balancer.But then again I could go elsewhere where they may the same machine and do it alot cheaper.
Also,since my warranty covers balance and allighment then if I go to my dealer will he charge me extra to balance and allign them?
I suppose that voids my warranty since I'm changing the wheels the car came with.In that case the dealer may charge me for the mount,balancing and allighnment.
Is it better to go elsewhere and have them mount and balance the tires on the new wheels and then go back to the dealer and have him do the allignment under warranty.Is my allighnment and balance still covered under warranty if I change the wheels,but use the same tires ?
A few months I took my car into the dealer I'd purchased it from, in KCK. I told them about the dash problem and asked him if he could find & implement the TSB that is out for the problem-- because I knew there was one. The manager was a jerk, and returned the car to me without doing a thing; he said he had called "someone in Calfornia" who had said any rattling was "normal." He didn't even act as though they had even bothered to DRIVE the car to listen for the problem. I drove the car home, and it rattled the whole way. Shame on you, un-named crappy KCK Toyota dealer.
A month later, I took the car into a widely known dealer in KCMO. It wasn't cold out that day, and I don't even think they were even able to replicate the dash rattle. But the service guy was very pleasant and they performed the TSB no questions asked!
We had another cold snap recently and it became clear that the dash still rattled. For months I had experienced two different pitched rattles... the TSB they performed seems to have remedied the lower-pitched rattle, but not the higher-pitched rattle. I took the car back in to the KCMO dealer and had one of them ride with me. 'Twas a cold morning, and the dash began rattling right away. They called and found there is a new TSB out on the dash problem... and have ordered parts. When the parts get in they are gonna loan me a new car and fix my dash. So, Kudos to this KCMO dealer for doing service "right."
Just an update for anyone having similar dash problems.
I have heard that what the TSB doing is resetting the program after each 500 miles.
Is there two versions of TSB's
TSB EG056-06
TSB EG056R-06 (Reviesd)
Please help me if anyone knows this.
I. April 4, 2007 - AU002-07 NO SOUND FROM AUDIO SYSTEM.
In some instances where the customer experiences no sound from the vehicle’s audio system, the root cause may be the trunk lid torsion bar coming out of its retaining clip and grounding the rear speaker when the trunk is closed.
Affected vehicles are 2007 Camry's produced before these VINs (sorry, I am having difficulty with this table formatting):
Plant Line VDS Production Chg. Effective VIN
Tsutsumi 1 ACV40 JTNBE46K773076775
Tsutsumi 1 GSV40 JTNBK46K173019515
Tsutsumi 1 AHV40 JTNBB46K173034878
TMMK 1 ACV40 4T1BE46K47U055902
TMMK 2 ACV40 4T1BE46K47U566854
TMMK 1 GSV40 4T1BK46K67U015443
TMMK 2 GSV40 4T1BK46K67U517613
For the Camry's built at TMMK, the underlined digit in the VIN shows which line it was built on. If it is a 0, it is Line 1. If it is a 5, it is Line 2.
The solution is to secure the torsion bar spring to the clamp with a zip-tie and apply electrical (vinyl) tape to the torsion bar spring.
Maybe we should keep some duct tape in our trunk for emergencies??
II. April 6, 2007 - EG014-07 M.I.L. ON DTC P0456
Some 2007 model year Camry vehicles may exhibit a M.I.L. “ON” condition with DTC P0456 (Evaporative Emissions Control System Leak Detected — Very Small Leak).
Affected vehicles are 2007 Camry's produced before these VINs (sorry about the formatting):
Engine Plant & Line Production Change Effective VIN
2GR-FE TMMK Line 1 TMMK14T1BK46K#7U021604
2GR-FE TMMK Line 2 TMMK24T1BK46K#7U526052
2AZ-FE TMMK Line 1 TMMK14T1BE46K#7U082189
2AZ-FE TMMK Line 2 TMMK24T1BE46K#7U604865
The solution appears to be to replace the charcoal canister assembly.
What we all need from you is the actual TSB number for the revised Dash Rattle. Most dealers do NOT like doing any work on rattles.
Your assistance in obtaining the specifics on the dash rattle fix would be much appreciated.
BO017-03 TRIM GARNISH LOOSE (REVISED)
NV004-06 FRONT SEAT SQUEAK NOISE
NV006-06 MOON ROOF RATTLE
BO015-06 RH INTERIOR A-PILLAR GARNISH LOOSE
NV009-06 UPPER/LOWER WINDSHIELD TICK NOISE
BR010-06 REAR BRAKE SQUEAK
BR008-06 FRONT BRAKE SQUEAK (REVISED)
NV002-07 DRIVER'S POWER SEAT SQUEAK FROM REAR OF SEAT
SU006-06 REAR SUSPENSION TICK NOISE (REVISED)
Hopefully torn8o can provide the TSB numbers.
Thanks for the info.
This is what I picked up on www.toyotanation.com and no TSB numbers;
The fix for the dash clicking in cold weather was stated in the service invoice as..
"see tech tip. CAUSE: rattle in dash. CORRECTION: RE and RE dash and install anti rattle tape." Under "PARTS: QTY: 2. FP NUMBER: 08231-00801-WA. DESCRIPTION: Noise kit."
Toyota of canada has had many of these complaints due to the constant sub zero temperature.there is a technical service bulletin that has not hit the states,basically it goes like this.”remove entire dashboard assembly.insulate defroster duct,insulate plastic clips that attach dash to firewall.”
Hope this helps and we find the actual TSB.
Regards
J
J
Unless you think the smell is from something burning (like an electrical short) or from leaking gasoline, I don't think you need to have it looked at immediately. But check your gauges and warning lights for any signs of further trouble down the road.
The Toyota dealer is to call me when the parts arrive that they ordered. When they do, I'll ask for the TSB number & post it.
-torn8o
J
Thanks;
Gary
I pinpointed the wobble effect occuring on the front left wheel.When I drive very slow or come out of a turn the left wheel is very bouncy.It feels like its higher than the right wheel.
I didn't pinpoint the exact problem until now.It was a week ago when I took it to the service manager and complained that the car was having problems.I complained that I was feeling the car vibrate at highway speed and that the steering felt a bit loose and seemed like the front tires were wobbling alot giving an unstable ride.
The service manager concluded that the wheels were out of balance.He then balanced them and said the wobble,vibration and steering was a part of all the same problem and that now it should be gone.I even asked him if he did the allighnment and he said it was fine.
The vibration is completely gone,but it still feels like the car is bouncy and wobbling in the front left wheel.I didn't want to take it back to the service manager because I thought maybe what I'm feeling is normal.
Instead,I thought let me get a second opinion.I took it to a mechanic and explained the problem.First he set the tire pressures in the front left and right tire to exactly the same at 31psi.He measured both front wheels.He measured each from the center cap to the upper fender.My compliants were indeed correct,he said the front left wheel was half an inch higher than the right.And that's why I was feeling the front left wheel bounce alot while driving.
So,afterall what I was feeeling was not normal and the balancing didn't correct it.He then explained the most likely scenario was that when it was brought on the truck from the factory that maybe it was in a bad position and that something happened causing the wheels to come off balance and mess up the allighment.Somehow,there was alot of pressure on the front left wheel that caused it misalign and be higher than the right.
He told me that those guys at toyota shouldn't have told me that the allighnment was normal.I'm assuming they didn't even check it and just said it was normal.He said I should go there and insist having them measure the wheels like he did and to check the allignnmet.Also,don't take there word that its normal.He said I should have them document the measurements and keep the paperwork.
So now I'm going back to the service manager on monday to raise hell.Does anybody have any knowledge of how they may fix the problem? I'm assuming they may just do the allighment if one wheek is higher than the other.I just hope that it didn't bend the axle or anything serious like that.
The measurements taken only provide significance that the allighnment is out of place because one wheel is placed higher than the other.Why else would I mention that the allighmnet is an issue.
Anybody,knows that if the mechanic is measuring the distance from the center of the wheel to the fender then he is checking for issues that deal with chamber,caster and toe.Possibly an allighmnet issue.I even said that the mechanic suggested that its possibly the allighmnet.
This is why the half-inch difference is meaningless, and that so-called mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about.
There really doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your car, now that the wheel balance issue has been fixed. My advice if you're not convinced is to ask for a test drive of a similarly equipped new or used 2007 Camry. Drive it on the same roads where you think yours is not acting properly.
There is no reason to "raise hell."
Also,I didn't tell the mechanic to check the allignmnet.If that was the case he would not measure it that way.He actually suggested to tell the dealer to check the allighnment.
My car is brand new,only 900 miles and 4 weeks old.That half an inch gap is not meaningless and should not be there.Both wheels should be allighned in position at the same height.
Also,if you read my previous post several days ago I did drive a similary equipped car.I drove my friends camry,the same as mine and that was alot more stable and didn't exhbit the front left tire being bouncy.
But now since I took it to the mechanic and he found that half an inch difference I now know that the ride behavior is definitely not normal.
I mean the service department already reblanced the wheels.That problem I was having with the vibration on the highway shouldn't even have been there on a new car.It was the service manager that took it on the highway and verified that complaint.That vibration is gone,but the loose steeering and wobble is still there.
That why I'm skeptical now to believe that everything that I'm still experiencing is normal.There was already a problem on the car that was fixed.There's something that happened to the car that forced the wheels out of balance and possible now explains for that half inch difference.
You are making this a much bigger issue than it is. One or more tires/wheels were out of balance originally. This is not a big deal, and is fixable easily, as yours was (too bad you had to deal with that testy service writer the first time). At the very worst (as dudley mentions), tires or wheels are easily replaced, not like transmissions (which as you know from following this board have given some people problems). By all means, you should comparison-test another Camry.
Cars even when brand new can have issues. In 2007, it's a lot less likely than in the 70s when I bought my first new car. Have you ever bought a new house? These are nowhere near as well-built as today's cars.
You said you drove your friend's Camry -- was it a 2007 model? Camrys traditionally have had light steering and little "feel of the road" through the steering wheel. If you wanted something with sportier handling and a touch more road feel, you should have considered the Honda Accord.
It's not even clear to me what you mean by a "wobble." All cars bounce to a certain extent on bumpy or uneven surfaces. Obviously, a Corvette is going to feel a lot less "bouncy" or "floaty" than a Lincoln Town Car. The Camry falls somewhere in the middle.
Also,I'm not making a big deal out of this.You sound like those jerks at the service department that keep saying everything is normal.They were quite embarrased when the service manager drove my car on the highway and found the vibration issue.
And yes the balance is easily fixable like you say,but is a big issue for me considering that I had to take the car two times and wait five days.It was such a hassle and inconvience.I didn't buy a new car to go through all that trouble.
I know that the steering is normally light on the camry,just like my 04' camry.But my 2007 camry feels so loose compared to my friends exact car and my previous 04'camry.
The service manager himself acknowledged there was an issue with the steering.He said it was part of the wheels not properly being rebalanced.After he rebalanced them,the steering feedback and looseness was a bit improved.
However,the bounciness and wobble is still there.If you don't know what I meant by wobble then please read my previous posts from several days ago.I explained it in detail.The car was swaying and hopping up and down while driving slow and making turns.
The car feels more stable and doesn't sway from side to side after the wheels were rebalanced,but that bouncy feeling on the front left wheels is still there.
My friends 07' camry didn't feel anything near like that.Neither did my 04'camry.However,the 04' was bit softer giving a floaty feeling,but nothing like the wheel bounciness on my new camry.
And yes the half an inch is trivial.It may be normal,but considering that I had an issue with the wheels being improperly balanced then I have ever reason to believe that the wheel allignment may also be an issue.
So I guess I proved that my problems are not normal on my new camry.Its not normal behavior like you think.If you think its normal then did you ever ask yourself how can the wheels be imbalanced on such a new car.I mean if its normal then that balancing problem shouldn't even be there in the first place.
The car was built on february 14 and delivered to me on march 6.I noticed the problems around march 10 before I took it to the dealer.It wasn't sitting there on the lot for a long time.So that doesn't explain the imbalance.
I'm assuming there's something that happened on the transport truck that messed up the wheel balance and possibly the allighment.The car was probably siting in a bad position and someting happened that forced pressure on the front left wheel.
I'm in central VA so if you live anywhere near me, I'd be glad to test drive your car.
But please don't imply that I'm a jerk -- if you go back through this and other Camry forums, you'll see that I try to help people.
This is my last post to you unless you take me up on that test drive.
I called them jerks because its just that I felt like I was being lied to and mistreated.It took five days because initially when they checked the car they said there was no vibration issue and what I was feeling was normal.They took two days doing that.They also said that the car was new and that I shouldn't have any problems.They then laughed off my complaints and said maybe it was just my driving.
Its only the third day when I was called to pick up the car that I insisted the manager ride along with me.He then verified my complaint and indeed there was a vibration issue.The fifth day he did the rebalancing using roadforce and it was gone.
Again,I apologize if I sounded sarcastic towards you.But in no way that was my intention.I'm not in your area so I have to turn down that offer for the test drive.But thanks anyway.
I guess the only way to resolve my compliant is have them check the allighnment and document the paperwork.If its normal then I'll accept that.If not then I suppose it would be fixed.That's probably the only way to get rid of my concerns and be satisfied overall.
he could have a bad strut or spring. what about the vehicle frame? it's possible the vehicle did incurr an issue during delivery.
my advice would be pleasantly / confidently ask the dealership to place the vehicle on one of the machines that checks for proper frame shape following a crash, and also inquire if it's possible the strut or spring are at issue at that wheel position.
If you don't believe me, try this on your own car: Make sure all 4 tires are properly inflated. Then take a tape measure, starting from level solid ground and measure up to the top of the left front wheel arch on the fender. Do the same on the right front wheel arch. Repeat at the left and right rear wheels. Betcha get some difference between left and right.
Now push up and down on the front and rear of the car, getting it to bounce. Repeat all measures and compare again.
If you want to make it even more interesting, have your spouse/significant other sit in the driver's set and repeat again. Let us know the results.
However,I agree with your analysis that the dimensions may vary depending on certain factors that you mentioned.Also the results may vary depending on how one performs the measurements.
Perhaps there is a certain way to take the measurements and get accurate results.Maybe the mechanic didn't follow that procedure and that explains for the half inch difference.But maybe he did measure it accurately and he's right.
I remember he recommended that the service tech perform the measurements and document the results.He said they have a special tool that takes accurate measurements and they would know how to check for wheel position height or something other to see if the wheels are allighned at factory settings.
The results maybe normal and if they're not then they would know how to diagnose and fix the problem.If its not normal then its probably the allignment or something else.But in any case the mechanic said to have the tech check the allighnment anyway.
I am going to try what you said just to see what I get.Its raining right now so I have to wait till tomorrow.I'll let you know the results tomorrow or sometime this week when I get the time.Thanks.
I even when to another mechanic at a local tire and allighment center.He even measured it and confirmed that the left front is half an inch higher than the right.He even drove it and noticed that there was definitely a problem.He said it may be possible that they would need to change the struts and springs to correct the ride height.
This time I have a print out of the mechanic analysis that states the problem and recommends that the vehicle will need to be adjusted to the correct height adjustment and will need allighment after the adjustment.
The only reason why I got the printout is so I can show the the service manager that there indeed is a problem and I had a mechanic confirm that.I just don't want to hear its normal this time.
I even found a tsb out online.It adresses the car pulling to the right and left side,but only recommends an allighment.
I think it may apply to my vehicle since I do feel the car pulling to the right alot.But I suppose an allignment will be checked and performed regardless of the tsb.
So the fact that I went to two mechanics and they confirmed my complaint then there is definitely a problem.Tomorrow I will go to the service department and let them know.Lets see what they say and do this time.I'll keep you guys posted.
I travel a lot and drive a variety of rental vehicles, and have never had a car with such loose steering. I certainly never had a vehicle that I was afraid to drive, but I am afraid to drive this one because it is so hard to keep in centered in a lane. After reading the suggestions on this topic, I will call the dealer tomorrow and see if there is anything they can do.
Or is it "light?" That is, little effort is needed to turn the wheel, regardless of road speed, and you get little "feel of the road" through the wheel.
If the latter, then this is normal, and has been a Camry characteristic for a long time.
I wonder why Toyota would boost the steering so much on the SE with such a tight suspension.
Here's the TSB # that the tech wrote down for me: NV009-06
They removed the "cowling louver" and installed an anti-noise kit under the bottom of windshield/cowling. I didn't hear any rattles on the way home, though it is quite warm out... we shall see.
Andy
I got a 2 weeks old 2007 Camry LE and it drives great except
when I take a slow sharp turn in my way to work, it slows
down completely and takes 2-4 seconds to regain the speed and move forward..
It is very strange and I'm worried.. is this a Known Toyota problem ...or a unique one..
Please advise.
-ven-